The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: Steve on October 30, 2017, 12:32:00 PM
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My son is nine. how do I educate him about this? I'm actually a teacher as well?
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Tell him that the government try’s to hide hide things from us. I remember when my parents first told me that the earth was flat, I didn’t believe them. I started doing research and discovered the truth. I respected my parents more for telling me the truth and you should tell your son the truth.
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My son is nine. how do I educate him about this? I'm actually a teacher as well?
Which perspective are you trying to educate him about - that the Earth is really Round - or the Earth is really Flat - or that there is some debate about the question with a TINY percentage of people in the world who take the Flat Earth position?
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hi Steve, are you asking if you're a teacher, or you put a question mark instead of an exclamation point?
Are you sure yourself that the Earth is "that and this"(if it's flat)?
I don't think that you should teach your son that the earth is flat or round, or an oblate spheroid - it won't allow him to see the problem critically and fully.
Yes, there is a problem: nobody actually knows the exact shape of the earth, everyone is just believing in either flat or globe model and doesn't want to listen to new, "crazy" ideas that might be proven as correct someday.
Instead of investigating how the earth actually looks, some people just feed their ego.
There are as well reptilian agents in every flat earth, awakening, truther movement. They intend to confuse humans and devert us into believing lies(so we can stay exploited for their needs). (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7150.msg128176#msg128176)
So i don't recommend pushing your own earth-shape beliefs onto children (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucFwj-37Gpw).
If you teach your son that the earth is flat or round, and then, if after years, it will turn out otherwise, he might become disappointed in you and won't trust you anymore.
If you lie to him about earth, he might become disappointed in life as well(you probably know what happens next, after people become disappointed in life).
Just tell your son that most people don't know about earth's shape and structure, and that we only have guesses and good thought and bad thought theories.
Read the FE wiki (https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence) or follow people's posts on this forum, watch some videos about FE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmFTgeK7U6U). First try to understand the general idea of Flat Earth Theory, then focus on the presented evidence( or do both at the same time - however you like). Learn about alternative theories (http://listverse.com/2013/05/29/10-bizarre-theories-about-the-earth-that-people-believe/) and their evidences.
When teaching your son, try to interpret it as best as you can, but keep an open mind.
Be both objective and subjective in balance: tell him how you understood the theory as-is, present him the evidences, and exchange together your genuine thoughts, feelings about the theory(whether you and him think it makes sense or it's stupid).
Walk him through all of the existing theories too: FE, RE, hollow earth, spaceship earth, torus earth, honeycomb earth (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5861.msg112251#msg112251), etc. And ask him what he thinks or feels is resonating with him more and ask why. You and your son, can accidentally and spontaneously discover earth's true shape by simply listening to what you feel intuitively(discern your ego's desires from your intuition).
I myself can't say right now if the earth is flat or round. I just don't wanna be *E beLIEver.
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hi Steve, are you asking if you're a teacher, or you put a question mark instead of an exclamation point?
Are you sure yourself that the Earth is "that and this"(if it's flat)?
I don't think that you should teach your son that the earth is flat or round, or an oblate spheroid - it won't allow him to see the problem critically and fully.
You cannot go through educating your kids with the idea that you'll teach them no known facts at all and everything has to be found out through observation or experimentation. There is simply too much to learn in one human lifetime without (as Newton famously said) "Standing on the shoulders of Giants".
So by all means encourage your children to question - but also be ready with proofs and answers.
Yes, there is a problem: nobody actually knows the exact shape of the earth, everyone is just believing in either flat or globe model and doesn't want to listen to new, "crazy" ideas that might be proven as correct someday.
But that's simply not true - the World Geophysical Survey of 1984 was a massive international effort to precisely map the shape of the Earth. It's standard (called "WGS84") is the most widely used and well proven description of the shape ever made up to that time. There are a couple of minor precision tweaks that were made to it since - but for all practical purposes, the oblate spheroid from that survey is "correct".
Instead of investigating how the earth actually looks, some people just feed their ego.
There are as well reptilian agents in every flat earth, awakening, truther movement. They intend to confuse humans and devert us into believing lies(so we can stay exploited for their needs). (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7150.msg128176#msg128176)
So i don't recommend pushing your own earth-shape beliefs onto children (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucFwj-37Gpw).
If you teach your son that the earth is flat or round, and then, if after years, it will turn out otherwise, he might become disappointed in you and won't trust you anymore.
If you lie to him about earth, he might become disappointed in life as well(you probably know what happens next, after people become disappointed in life).
You don't LIE - you tell the truth as the best information available tells it. And if later, you're proven wrong, then you admit it. That's the way to build respect. My father (who was an electrician) told me that in an electrical circuit, DC electricity flows from the + terminal to the -. That's what he was taught. When I started learning about electricity in physics - and that electrons are negatively charged and flow from the '-' terminal to the '+' - I told him. He was taken aback - then convinced that I must be wrong - then picked up the encyclopedia britannica and read about it. He realised I was right - and he told me so.
I never had more respect for him than at that moment.
Just tell your son that most people don't know about earth's shape and structure, and that we only have guesses and good thought and bad thought theories.
That's an outright lie though. By FAR the majority of people in the world are fully aware of the Earth's shape (perhaps not structure).
Read the FE wiki (https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence) or follow people's posts on this forum, watch some videos about FE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmFTgeK7U6U). First try to understand the general idea of Flat Earth Theory, then focus on the presented evidence( or do both at the same time - however you like). Learn about alternative theories (http://listverse.com/2013/05/29/10-bizarre-theories-about-the-earth-that-people-believe/) and their evidences.
When teaching your son, try to interpret it as best as you can, but keep an open mind.
Be both objective and subjective in balance: tell him how you understood the theory as-is, present him the evidences, and exchange together your genuine thoughts, feelings about the theory(whether you and him think it makes sense or it's stupid).
Walk him through all of the existing theories too: FE, RE, hollow earth, spaceship earth, torus earth, honeycomb earth (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5861.msg112251#msg112251), etc. And ask him what he thinks or feels is resonating with him more and ask why. You and your son, can accidentally and spontaneously discover earth's true shape by simply listening to what you feel intuitively(discern your ego's desires from your intuition).
I myself can't say right now if the earth is flat or round. I just don't wanna be *E beLIEver.
The problem is - (and it's a problem for people who don't believe in evolution or don't believe in global warming or who believe that airplane contrails contain medical waste) that if you teach your child YOUR beliefs - and you are in the VAST minority (certainly the case for flat earthers) - then they will look like idiots when they open their mouths in school science classes - they will fail to get into college if they mention these beliefs in their entry interviews - and they sure as hell won't get good jobs.
So by pushing these lies onto the next generation - you doom them to be failures in our advanced technological society.
You need to push aside your silly disbeliefs and actually LOOK at the evidence with the open mind you claim to have.
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My heart goes out to you and ANY parent for that matter that is facing the same situation... the problem with kids is their brain at that age is so powerfully sponge-like in learning and retaining vasts amounts of new information. A lot of core fundamental beliefs are learned during those early years and are set for life. My advice would be to stick to a balance of parental love and prepping a child with the best in life and survival skills. Survival of the fittest.
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...There is simply too much to learn in one human lifetime without (as Newton famously said) "Standing on the shoulders of Giants".
I actually had almost the same question from my dad, when we were discussing conspiracy theories together few months ago.
The answer is simple: you're not alone in this journey for the truth-seeking.
- There are a lot of skilled (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GZhj9BbIXc) and highly-intelligent, also intuitive, people, who are very motivated to achieve the desired knowledge.
- There are people with material resources: money(hardcored toilet paper), technological equipment, who also would want to volunteer in helping, if you ever need something for your practical experiments. (it's the being helpful and feeling of being helpful part that really matters for these people)
If you think that something is impossible to achieve in this world, then just look at the ancient teachings and practices of buddhism, hinduism and tibetan buddhism, which already knew about our reality potentially being illusionary ~2000 years ago!
(ONLY according to our official history, of course)
While the science is only starting to gather the substantial evidence.(also, just regular people who practice astral projections, OBEs (https://www.wikihow.com/Perform-Astral-Projection) would easily get to this understanding!)
So whenever something as "unscientific" as meditation practice gives out answers so quickly and efficiently, i always think: there might be no limits to our capabilities and our human potential!
Obviously :-B you don't have to learn everything by yourself - you can collaborate with a lot of people(especially with the help of the internet and modern high-tech - you can do it anytime, almost anywhere you want).
When you bring people's unique capabilities in one work - you achieve knowledge way more faster(weeks instead of 10+ years) and effectively. Take this forum, and many others, as somewhat example to what research potentially could be done in a short period of time.
Although i think Newton is a constructed(from many different personalities) personality(and human history is constantly rewritten through mass advanced social engineering tactics (https://imgur.com/a/lNYYH)), we can stand on each other's shoulders, like in an infinite loop (http://webneel.com/daily/sites/default/files/images/daily/02-2014/11-droste-effect.jpg), because everyone is a giant in some specialty of their own (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY2jPAb6BOQ).
This "being a scientist" is just a garbage label, created for slave humans by non-humans. There are less scientists who actually do something and more scientists who repeat the lies fed to them throughout their life without even questioning...So the scientists are kinda like retranslators of lies...
That's an outright lie though. By FAR the majority of people in the world are fully aware of the Earth's shape (perhaps not structure).
People are aware of what they were taught and what their parents were taught, and what their grandparents were possibly taught, etc. But are they really sure it's not a complex lie made by, possibly, non-human "civilizators".
(if they can create something complex as sun( the sun is probably fake (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6625)), possibly integrate into humanity technology like VR, computers(i don't think humans created computers), they could have done even more complex things (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles50a.htm))
The problem is - (and it's a problem for people who don't believe in evolution or don't believe in global warming or who believe that airplane contrails contain medical waste) that if you teach your child YOUR beliefs - and you are in the VAST minority (certainly the case for flat earthers) - then they will look like idiots when they open their mouths in school science classes - they will fail to get into college if they mention these beliefs in their entry interviews - and they sure as hell won't get good jobs.
So by pushing these lies onto the next generation - you doom them to be failures in our advanced technological society.
This is how it's cleverly designed. "The system" (of human enslavement) will make your life miserable, if you won't obey believing in lies. But the more people, especially socially-influential people, wake up, the more understanding and empathy they will get from sheeple.
It really is hard to speak about conspiracy-related, spirituality-related topics with "sleeping" people.
Yet if we won't awake people, then nobody will ever do it for us - everyone will stay enslaved and will never realize the true reasons of their suffering. They will just feel that something is wrong with society, politics, science and with the whole world, but they won't ever listen to this abrupt feeling, because they're deeply conditioned to only rely on fake facts and only logic and don't question in fields, where they're not allowed to question.
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My son is nine. how do I educate him about this? I'm actually a teacher as well?
I would recommend starting with maps. Round Earth indoctrination is so successful because children are surrounded by globes. Maybe get a print of Gleason's map and put it up as a poster?
Ultimately, I agree with Hmm. We shouldn't be replacing one indoctrination with another. Teach your kid to think for themselves. Explain that there is a controversy and let them explore it with as little guidance as is necessary. Keep them away from RE bias, but be careful not to stray into FE bias, either. We're better than those fools.
Oh, and don't mind 3DGeek - he's our resident nutjob. He thinks Dallas, TX is in Japan because he "thought this through VERY carefully" (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6852.msg124867#msg124867). He likes to conceal flawed arguments within walls of text, but when you get to the bottom of it, his arguments invariably rely on a hidden misconception. I suspect he does this on purpose - a comedy act of some sort, perhaps.
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My son is nine. how do I educate him about this? I'm actually a teacher as well?
I would recommend starting with maps. Round Earth indoctrination is so successful because children are surrounded by globes. Maybe get a print of Gleason's map and put it up as a poster?
But you Flat Earthers don't have a map that you can agree on - and it's trivial to disprove every map I've ever seen presented by FE'ers.
Ultimately, I agree with Hmm. We shouldn't be replacing one indoctrination with another. Teach your kid to think for themselves. Explain that there is a controversy and let them explore it with as little guidance as is necessary. Keep them away from RE bias, but be careful not to stray into FE bias, either. We're better than those fools.
But as I said before - if you teach the philosophy of ignore everything you're taught and question everything - they'll never learn anything of value because the universe is simply too large and complex for any one person to personally deduce everything they need to know.
"Mommy says I have to eat my veggies and not only eat dessert - but Daddy taught me to ignore all dogma and find out for myself - so I'm only going to eat icecream from now on."
Yeah - parenting is a lot of fun when you follow THAT route.
"Daddy told me not to drink antifreeze - but it tastes just like icecream - so I'm going to do the experiment"...<dies a horrible death>
So you DO have to teach dogma...and expect them to believe you. So at best you wind up with inconsistent parenting.
Oh, and don't mind 3DGeek - he's our resident nutjob. He thinks Dallas, TX is in Japan because he "thought this through VERY carefully" (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6852.msg124867#msg124867). He likes to conceal flawed arguments within walls of text, but when you get to the bottom of it, his arguments invariably rely on a hidden misconception. I suspect he does this on purpose - a comedy act of some sort, perhaps.
Yeah - this is the ONLY thing you ever have to say about me. You carefully avoid reading what I actually said (which was NOT that) - and you studiously avoid getting involved in any of my other carefully reasoned "disproof" threads...because you CANNOT explain them away.
Not many people here seem to agree with the "Nutjob" thing...but that's OK - I have a thick skin and I prefer to be judged by results and not the slings and arrows of those who's only recourse in a debate is to say "Ignore this guy".
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It's classic poisoning the well, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well) every time, and it's getting old.
If you want to see how Svarrior / PizzaPlanet fares when actually debating, read through the now-abandoned FES subreddit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/flatearthsociety/) It did not go well for him. I don't expect him to ever rise above his BS and actually get involved, when flaming and shitposting are obviously way more fun, and involve less public flagellation.
as for teaching a kid about flat earth ... just ... don't? in order to teach it, you have to by extension teach that space travel is maliciously faked and that astronauts are actors. this is ultimately religious in nature, so I guess, pass down whatever beliefs you feel are appropriate.
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I don't get it.
If when my son was 9 I told him the earth was flat, he would have known I was wrong because he's read every single wikipedia article on space travel by then.
When I was 9, I knew the names of every astronaut that had flown in space up to that time, and lots about constellations and planets.
If my parents had had flat earth maps around the house, by the time I was 9 I would have known it was not right. "How come you can fly to Australia from South Africa and it doesn't take 3 weeks?" "Why can't I see the southern cross?" "Why are there two high tides per day?"
All of these questions I would have thought of and looked up in the encyclopedia we had. Had my parents chosen not to have an encyclopedia, I would have walked to the library.
If you try to indoctrinate your son, you have only two possible outcomes:
- your son will lose respect for you because it's obvious you are wrong.
- your son will believe you and all his friends and teachers will lose respect for him.
It's OK for you to believe the earth is flat, and even for you to tell your son you believe that, but you better acknowledge that you are in the minority position, and you should have a basic grasp of the evidence you are ignoring.
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Oh, and I ignored the best thing and the actual gosh darn reason I'm here.
If you learn about both theories, you can make an informed choice. So I'm here to try to understand what evidence people think makes the earth flat, and understand it. If the evidence was convincing I'd become a flat earth believer. The evidence clearly supports round earth theory, so now if my son comes to me and asks I can have an intelligent discussion about it with him.
So, before you teach him flat earth theory, you should absolutely understand round earth theory.
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My son is nine. how do I educate him about this? I'm actually a teacher as well?
I would recommend starting with maps. Round Earth indoctrination is so successful because children are surrounded by globes. Maybe get a print of Gleason's map and put it up as a poster?
But you Flat Earthers don't have a map that you can agree on - and it's trivial to disprove every map I've ever seen presented by FE'ers.
Ultimately, I agree with Hmm. We shouldn't be replacing one indoctrination with another. Teach your kid to think for themselves. Explain that there is a controversy and let them explore it with as little guidance as is necessary. Keep them away from RE bias, but be careful not to stray into FE bias, either. We're better than those fools.
But as I said before - if you teach the philosophy of ignore everything you're taught and question everything - they'll never learn anything of value because the universe is simply too large and complex for any one person to personally deduce everything they need to know.
"Mommy says I have to eat my veggies and not only eat dessert - but Daddy taught me to ignore all dogma and find out for myself - so I'm only going to eat icecream from now on."
Yeah - parenting is a lot of fun when you follow THAT route.
"Daddy told me not to drink antifreeze - but it tastes just like icecream - so I'm going to do the experiment"...<dies a horrible death>
So you DO have to teach dogma...and expect them to believe you. So at best you wind up with inconsistent parenting.
Oh, and don't mind 3DGeek - he's our resident nutjob. He thinks Dallas, TX is in Japan because he "thought this through VERY carefully" (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6852.msg124867#msg124867). He likes to conceal flawed arguments within walls of text, but when you get to the bottom of it, his arguments invariably rely on a hidden misconception. I suspect he does this on purpose - a comedy act of some sort, perhaps.
Yeah - this is the ONLY thing you ever have to say about me. You carefully avoid reading what I actually said (which was NOT that) - and you studiously avoid getting involved in any of my other carefully reasoned "disproof" threads...because you CANNOT explain them away.
Not many people here seem to agree with the "Nutjob" thing...but that's OK - I have a thick skin and I prefer to be judged by results and not the slings and arrows of those who's only recourse in a debate is to say "Ignore this guy".
The Ping thread was the one thing they could grab onto to discredit your work here. It was flawed and I think you would readily admit that. It's like Tom and the one article that shows GPS is not accurate under certain conditions while ignoring the vast wealth of data out there that shows GPS is very accurate. Accurate enough for surveyors who are bonded and liable for errors.
To get back on topic, that's the problem with FE. Fear. They fear admitting any contrary data as that would bring down the entire house of cards. It's like the religious pablum I was fed as a kid. There was fear in the eyes of Sunday school teachers when I asked logical questions.
Be careful what you try to indoctoinate kids with.
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Treat the situation like you are telling your son that santa is not real.
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If you want to see how Svarrior / PizzaPlanet fares when actually debating, read through the now-abandoned FES subreddit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/flatearthsociety/) It did not go well for him. I don't expect him to ever rise above his BS and actually get involved, when flaming and shitposting are obviously way more fun, and involve less public flagellation
I'm sorry you feel that way, though I'm a bit confused by what you just said - the subreddit would have offered you very few opportunities to see me in debates, which I actively avoided there due to a conflict of interest. Of course, you could simply look through my posts here, especially older ones when I wasn't continuously preoccupied with more pressing tasks; but it does not look like you're trying to establish a truthful assessment here, just one that makes your side look good.
But yes - the subreddit was a failed experiment. It got overrun with brigadiers and we were unwilling to crack down on them, as this would create an echo chamber. That is not what we're after.
The Ping thread was the one thing they could grab onto to discredit your work here.
Oh, not at all. It was just one that was so painstakingly bad, so blindingly catastrophic, that even the RE sycophants had to side with me in the end. You could look at any other thread where I've disarmed 3DGeek's "concealed flaw" pattern, but they're not quite as much of a slap to the face. You could look at his tides thread, or the Tsar Bomba one. The wealth of evidence is there, but using the most notable example is worthwhile.
It was flawed and I think you would readily admit that.
Ha! Read through the thread. It's filled with "please do not insult my intelligence" and "I've thought about this VERY HARD and I'm a networking expert!" (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6852.msg124867#msg124867) It's absolutely littered with it all the way until a couple of RE'ers point out that I'm correct, at which point our resident nutjob goes strangely silent.
No, 3DGeek does not "readily admit" his flaws. His flaws are a deliberate part of what he's doing here. I do admire his little comedy show/thought experiment, but I have much more respect for the people who were able to see through it.
Be careful what you try to indoctoinate kids with.
Or just don't indoctrinate your kids. This is simple stuff.
Yeah - this is the ONLY thing you ever have to say about me. You carefully avoid reading what I actually said (which was NOT that) - and you studiously avoid getting involved in any of my other carefully reasoned "disproof" threads...because you CANNOT explain them away.
Well, yes, I can't explain away your belief that Dallas is in Japan. And, if you now acknowledge that Dallas is in Texas, I don't really need to argue against the proposal that Texas is <10,000km away from some other part of the USA. We agree on that one - it just happens to be thoroughly worthless. You tried to present it as something else, which cemented your reputation here amongst everyone who isn't a RE yes-man. You didn't even have it in you to apologise for your sloppy work, and for your continued dismissal of what should have been obvious to anyone with even the tiniest amount of IT experience.
I have a thick skin and I prefer to be judged by results
I am judging you by your results. That's why it's important to remind everyone of your confirmation bias. You established a "maximum distance" of ~10,000km between two locations; you thought one was in California and one was in Japan. You thought that made sense. Turns out it was Texas, not Japan. All to do with your results, nothing to do with the thickness of your skin (which is also atrocious - just look at how much the lady doth protest when your patterns are exposed!)
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The Ping thread was the one thing they could grab onto to discredit your work here.
Oh, not at all. It was just one that was so painstakingly bad, so blindingly catastrophic, that even the RE sycophants had to side with me in the end. You could look at any other thread where I've disarmed 3DGeek's "concealed flaw" pattern, but they're not quite as much of a slap to the face. You could look at his tides thread, or the Tsar Bomba one.
You may not want to bring up the Tsar Bomba thread - you were wrong on that thread, tried to misrepresent what 3D actually said, and when I called you on it, you conveniently vanished. You shit post all over the upper fora with comments all the lines of "you're wrong." Great, thank you for your contribution.
As for OP, can't help you on that one. I would be concerned that you're setting your son up for ridicule by his peers for thinking the Earth is flat. Kids are pretty cruel at that age. Maybe just present both side and wait until he is old enough to decide?
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Of course, you could simply look through my posts here, especially older ones when I wasn't continuously preoccupied with more pressing tasks; but it does not look like you're trying to establish a truthful assessment here, just one that makes your side look good.
Looking through your reddit posts is what I had in mind, yes.
Presenting both sides, to to speak, is not really possible. The truth is there is only one side: Having an open mind and accepting new information given critical review. Those who believe that the Earth is flat fail in this task. Those who can think for themselves examine how the sun appears to set, how the seasons change, how magnets work, and how space exploration exists, and they know the Earth is round.
Present both sides:
One person thinks addition has a commutative property, the other does not. "Have you directly observed that B + A = C? Thought not."
One person thinks lizards are real, the other does not. "Have you ever actually seen a salamander for yourself?"
One person thinks the Earth's shape is well understood (https://www.google.com/earth/), the other thinks there is an international conspiracy to fake space travel, that having globes in schools is tantamount to indoctrination, that Democritus, Euclid, Einstein, Feynman, Rovelli, and everyone in between were unproven fools or worse, and so forth (https://wiki.tfes.org/).
inb4 *yawn*
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You may not want to bring up the Tsar Bomba thread - you were wrong on that thread, tried to misrepresent what 3D actually said, and when I called you on it, you conveniently vanished.
Oh yeah, you were the proponent of supersonic sound. That was a fun one. Always good to see creative RE'ers invent things like that. Not as fun as Dallas, Japan; but fun nonetheless.
Looking through your reddit posts is what I had in mind, yes.
And I just explained why you wouldn't find much there, while proposing a better data source.
the other thinks there is an international conspiracy to fake space travel, that having globes in schools is tantamount to indoctrination, that Democritus, Euclid, Einstein, Feynman, Rovelli, and everyone in between were unproven fools or worse, and so forth (https://wiki.tfes.org/).
You certainly enjoy your melodrama and misrepresentation of groups you don't like. This may come as a shock to you, but you're only lying to yourself. As I pointed out many times before, the floundering of angry RE'ers who try so hard to insult and discredit us only helps our movement to grow :)
But, fundamentally, we agree. Here's hoping that one day you accept new information!
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Y'all are pretty melodramatic:
Throughout the years it has become a duty of each Flat Earth Society member, to meet the common round earther in the open, avowed, and unyielding rebellion; to declare that his reign of error and confusion is over; and that henceforth, like a falling dynasty, he must shrink and disappear, leaving the throne and the kingdom of science and philosophy to those awakening intellects whose numbers are constantly increasing, and whose march is rapid and irresistible. The soldiers of truth and reason of the Flat Earth Society have drawn the sword, and ere another generation has been educated and grown to maturity, will have forced the usurpers to abdicate. Like the decayed and crumbling trees of an ancient forest, rent and shattered by wind and storm, the hypothetical philosophies, which have hitherto cumbered the civilized world, are unable to resist the elements of experimental and logical criticism; and sooner or later must succumb to their assaults. The axe is uplifted for a final stroke - it is about to fall upon the primitive sphere of the earth, and the blow will surely "cut the cumberer down!"
then there's these...
'the other thinks there is an international conspiracy to fake space travel' (https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy)
There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to). The motto "Scientific exploration of new frontiers for all mankind" was nothing more than a front. ... The Chinese have also been faking their space missions.
'that having globes in schools is tantamount to indoctrination'
I would recommend starting with maps. Round Earth indoctrination is so successful because children are surrounded by globes. Maybe get a print of Gleason's map and put it up as a poster?
' that Democritus, Euclid, Einstein, Feynman, Rovelli, and everyone in between were unproven fools or worse'
The Newtonian and all other "systems of nature" are littler better than the "hypothesis of the terrestrial motion" of Copernicus. The foundations or premises are always unproved; no proof is ever attempted... (http://library.tfes.org/library/samuel_rowbotham_-_earth_not_a_globe.pdf)
You have made this argument before (https://www.reddit.com/r/flatearthsociety/comments/5x61mx/distances_on_the_flat_earth_do_not_correspond_to/dei24dc/). Someone pulled a map directly from the wiki, showed it was impossible, and you pretended that it misrepresented flat Earth and that they should look at the wiki.
But, fundamentally, we agree. Here's hoping that one day you accept new information!
Poison your well baby. drink deep
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I remember when my parents first told me that the earth was flat, I didn’t believe them.
When was that exactly,,, 2016?
My mum did tell me about God and that lead me to finding out some lies.
Anyway,
You should tell your son that you now believe the earth is flat and also to be careful whom he shares this information with as it brings ridicule. School is difficult enough without being branded a Flatard. Also, this problem is not new, many Christians homeschool their kids already because of godless evolution and now we have gender neutral ideology and all the stuff that comes with that so Springsteen's mates can feel safe going to the toilet. The whole school system is shot and ordinary people are rejecting it in droves.
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You have made this argument before (https://www.reddit.com/r/flatearthsociety/comments/5x61mx/distances_on_the_flat_earth_do_not_correspond_to/dei24dc/). Someone pulled a map directly from the wiki, showed it was impossible, and you pretended that it misrepresented flat Earth and that they should look at the wiki.
And now you're lying about what I've said. The "images" I was referring to were a series of "debunks", each of which started with an incorrect assumption about the Flat Earth Model, and not the map featured in some of said images.
While quote-mining me and imposing your own context onto what has been said might make me look bad to someone who's not paying attention, it only aids my claim that you're not interested in a truthful assessment. Thank you for this confirmation.
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Please give serious consideration to what you want to teach a child. I hear so many people throwing around the goal of having an "open mind", and on the surface that sounds all well and good. I certainly have no problem being open minded, and I consider myself to be open minded. But think about what this really means.
The way I see some people use the term, they wear it as a badge of honor, and in their some of their minds, being open minded means believing the opposite of most people, or of conventional thought. There is a difference in being open minded and being stubbornly contrary.
I am going to post some things here not for the sake of starting a debate thread, but to comment on being open minded.
Here are a few things that support RE (round Earth) belief:
Calculations of shadows in ancient Greece that determined the circumference of the Earth
Ship captains navigating the Earth for hundreds of years using a clock and the angle to the sun or north star to calculate their position on the Earth's surface
Pictures of Earth from space (NASA, ESA, private satellite launches, weather satellite pictures on TV news, etc.)
GPS
Satellite TV and radio
Solar and lunar eclipses
Constellations that are different in the northern and southern hemisphere
How does FE explain the things listed above? Lies, conspiracies, balloons, nothing at all?
You can find individual items discussed in threads and occasionally in the wiki. The explanations where they exist are shallow at best and often have an elaborate explanation for one attribute, which completely contradicts other attributes.
So I ask you to seriously consider, is believing that all the explanations we are commonly taught for all those basic attributes of the world are all lies and/or wrong. Is that really being open minded?
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You may not want to bring up the Tsar Bomba thread - you were wrong on that thread, tried to misrepresent what 3D actually said, and when I called you on it, you conveniently vanished.
Oh yeah, you were the proponent of supersonic sound. That was a fun one. Always good to see creative RE'ers invent things like that. Not as fun as Dallas, Japan; but fun nonetheless.
You may want to go back and refresh your memory on that one. We misread the graph, once that was cleared up, you had no other rebuttal other than to misrepresent what 3D said. Again, once your mistake was called out, you vanished. Fun indeed. I love proving FEers wrong.
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One suggestion I would make is this. Make an appointment with a science teacher at your local grade school or high school and discuss this. Don't rely on YouTube videos and forum posts. I have seen such nonsense posted on those kind of sources. Some of it so ridiculous that I really go back and forth on thinking people are ignorant or just playing a practical joke.
There is often a lack of quality response in these settings that you would get in a personal conversation. I have seen many times where people post something, have it thoroughly debunked, but then the original poster disappears from the discussion thread.
I think a one on one conversation with you and a good science teacher with a whiteboard would make a huge difference. Please consider it.
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xenotolerance, Pete Svarrior, StinkyOne, TomInAustin, 3DGeek,
i think you should create a new thread somewhere in debate section - otherwise you will flood this one with information Steve, the OP didn't(kinda) ask for.
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...Don't rely on YouTube videos and forum posts. I have seen such nonsense posted on those kind of sources. Some of it so ridiculous that I really go back and forth on thinking people are ignorant or just playing a practical joke.
But if everything was allright with the world, there would be no reason to question earth's shap, and there would be no reason to talk about any conspiracy.
I think, some of the people who talk about flat earth are normal, sane and genuine in their concerns.
I know a method(you could learn to do it auromatically): find things 'that are repeating' in all of FE youtube videos you watch - combine things, that everyone or majority of people agrees on, in one big picture; do it with every little claim.
For example:
most FEs agree on that the sun is smaller and closer than we're taught.
...I think a one on one conversation with you and a good science teacher with a whiteboard would make a huge difference. Please consider it.
Or you could make an appointment with one science teacher today, with another two days after, and another next week, etc (within 1 month timespan); and then analyze what most or everyone of them agrees on(what's matching in their opinions) and what most or everyone disagrees on.
I think it's effective technique(especially if you combine or balance with other related ones), but i could be wrong. At least, when i use it, it works for me.
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...Don't rely on YouTube videos and forum posts. I have seen such nonsense posted on those kind of sources. Some of it so ridiculous that I really go back and forth on thinking people are ignorant or just playing a practical joke.
But if everything was allright with the world, there would be no reason to question earth's shap, and there would be no reason to talk about any conspiracy.
I think, some of the people who talk about flat earth are normal, sane and genuine in their concerns.
I don't think it's a valid argument to say the Earth might be flat because some people talk about it being flat. But rather than having that argument, I will share an example of the type of thing I am referring to. I was searching for videos on the solar eclipse in August. I was able to drive a couple of hours an see the totality, it was an awesome sight and I wanted to see some other views of it. In doing so I saw a video that claimed that the moon is 70 miles wide and this was proof of NASA lies, flat Earth, etc.
The basis of his claims about the moon's width was that something can cast a shadow bigger than itself, but not a smaller one due to the "laws of shadows". It only took a moment to understand where his thought processes were wrong. His main problem was that he was thinking that the area of totality is "the" shadow of the moon, and that he was thinking of the sun as a single point of light. Because the sun is large and round there are areas where the moon blocks some, but not all, of the sun. So you have areas of partial and areas of total eclipse (penumbra and umbra). So the true shadow of the moon includes all the areas of partial eclipse which was a path thousands of miles wide.
So this is the problem I have. He made a video over 20 minutes long. I will guess he spent at least a few hours gathering video clips and editing. He posted this and it has been viewed over 250k times with over 4k comments. All of this because he decided to make the conspiracy video rather than taking ten minutes to research the facts to understand why he was wrong. It's the same logic that I have seen over and over in these videos, comments and posts here: I see something that doesn't make sense to me, so it must mean I have found proof of the evil NASA conspiracy! What is wrong with having the thought process: I see something that doesn't make sense to me, so I should research and find an explanation to my understanding.
If Mr 70 mile wide moon had talked to someone with basic science knowledge and just asked how the moon's shadow could be so small, it would only take a few minutes to explain.
Or you could make an appointment with one science teacher today, with another two days after, and another next week, etc (within 1 month timespan); and then analyze what most or everyone of them agrees on(what's matching in their opinions) and what most or everyone disagrees on.
I think it's effective technique(especially if you combine or balance with other related ones), but i could be wrong. At least, when i use it, it works for me.
I think that is an excellent suggestion!
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The "images" I was referring to were a series of "debunks", each of which started with an incorrect assumption about the Flat Earth Model, and not the map featured in some of said images.
This is a useful clarification.
the images in question:
(https://i.imgur.com/AJvO9pw.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CHSpwlC.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/oC2onhn.png)
I'm not sure where 4 went.
(https://i.imgur.com/muY2bMx.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lKipXJf.png)
dude takes a certain tone that I find disagreeable. I will focus on specifics
1 does not make any specific claims about what flat Earth beliefs are. he does write "the flat Earth map" when there is not a single specific thing, so he might be assuming the unipolar map is official (it looks that way, I'm sure you are aware) but it doesn't matter. One could define south as 'away from the north pole' for any unipolar model, or 'toward the south pole' in a bipolar model, and this argument holds.
2 is not entirely fair to Rowbotham's explanations for sunsets, as it isn't simply distance but faulty ideas of perspective (explained in terms of increasing distance, but moving on) that are supposed to explain sunsets. it's possible broheim had met this argument on reddit or elsewhere, but just distance is not used to explain sunsets here as far as I know. the question of the straight terminator is valid regardless. (http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/summer-solstice-tale-of-2-cities)
3 is similar to 3DGeek's arguments about flight distances. it also does not make reference to a specific flat Earth tenet, instead generally showing that Earth can't be flat. one might disagree with the conclusion but he doesn't make any assumptions about flat Earth here.
5 ignores what ad hoc explanations do exist for lunar eclipses, and makes fun of one specific, possibly misrepresented argument about it. Lunar eclipses remain a clean demonstration that the Earth is not flat, and yet you are correct that this image misrepresents your beliefs.
6 suffers from its first paragraph referencing the alleged distance belief again, but is otherwise solid. Due westeast sunrise on equinox is not possible on a flat Earth, regardless of the drawn map. He is not making any assumptions about the map, beyond using the unipolar map that's featured in the wiki faq.
Having reviewed the available materials, I maintain that pointing these guys to the wiki was misdirection. also, redditors are fuckheads
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I'll leave the disagreements about FET out of this (sounds like 5 new threads to me, and we've detailed this enough by now) and I'll focus on your attempt at attacking my character.
Having reviewed the available materials, I maintain that pointing these guys to the wiki was misdirection. also, redditors are fuckheads
What I told him was to learn FET before trying to debunk it, and suggested the FAQ as a starting point. Yes, he'd have to go much further before he could start trying to debunk things. If I ever made it sound like this wasn't the case, hey ho, my bad.
Though I do think I made it clear:
Of course not. Do you not understand what an FAQ is? It's a starting point. If you're actually serious about this, you're going to have to set aside a few months to research the subject.
Start with the FAQ, work your way up from there.
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And it's obvious that he understands the theory well enough to form 5 good arguments against it, regardless of his time spent researching the wiki. In truth, the subject is somewhat straightforward: The Earth is not flat.
It's not an attack on your character to call this misdirection. I will refrain in the future from commenting on your tactics, in respect to your sensitivity on the subject.
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Honestly, the best bet is to let your son receive education without injecting all of your contradictory knowledge to what is being taught in school. Once he gets out of school ten to 15 years from now then start presenting information. Maybe by this time the rabbit will be out of the hat and you won't be to shed light on all of the false stuff going on.
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My son is nine. how do I educate him about this? I'm actually a teacher as well?
Don't
As a 10 year old who is completely logical and studies physics, I am outraged by the fact that you are trying to educate him about this. People say that it is the 'Government's lies' but think about it, if they government was really that corrupted, wouldn't they be exposed by the media or anti-corrupt agencies? Even if all those agencies I've mentioned are also corrupt, there would surely be whistle-blowers by now who would reveal these lies
But there are NO WHISTLE-BLOWERS
So the government can't be lying