[Tom Bishop]

The magnetic field lines are horizontal over the earth at mid latitudes and then get more vertical near the poles as they travel into the earth.

It doesn't change the direction of North. It just means that when the field lines start shifting more vertical you need to use a dip compass to determine North, otherwise a normal compass would scrape against its tray.

[Max_Almond]

Magnetic declination doesn't change the direction of North, to which East and West are always right angles to.

Actually, that's exactly what it does. Or, at least, it changes the direction of magnetic north, in relation to geographic north.

Also, to update you a little more, last time I checked I found 74 direct long distance flights per week which were entirely within the southern hemisphere.

Would you like a list of them?

[Tom Bishop]

The direction of north stays the same. You just need to upgrade your compass to one that can swivel. A normal regular compass will eventually scrape against its tray and cease functioning.

Your criticism of the issue is in error.

[Max_Almond]

The direction of north stays the same. You just need to upgrade your compass to one that can swivel. A normal regular compass will eventually scrape against its tray and cease functioning.

When you say "north" are you referring to "true north" or "magnetic north"?

[Max_Almond]

<<silence>>

[Tom Bishop]

Why don't you just look up how the concept works?

[edby]

Why don't you just look up how the concept works?

The question, way back, was how magnetic declination works on a flat earth model. I think everyone knows how it works on the standard theory.  Can you give a citation to the part of FE theory which explains this? That's all that's being asked.

[Max_Almond]

Exactly. The only way to know Tom Bishop's 'concept' is to ask Tom Bishop.

[Tom Bishop]

The question was whether magnetic declination of the magnetic field lines involves geographic north or magnetic north. The answer is that the magnetic field lines cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, and so geographic north would be unrelated. The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.

I believe that this question could have been determined by research of magnetic declination from traditional sources, without spamming for my attention on the forums.

[Max_Almond]

Stop press! Tom Bishop admits there are two poles! 

The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.

[Curious Squirrel]

Stop press! Tom Bishop admits there are two poles! 

The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.

Tom has espoused the 'bipolar model' for at least as long as I've been on this site, going so far as to state it's the (at least semi-official) model of the FES as of I believe Lady Blount's time, or thereabouts.

This one as a reminder:

[Tontogary]

The question was whether magnetic declination of the magnetic field lines involves geographic north or magnetic north. The answer is that the magnetic field lines cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, and so geographic north would be unrelated. The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.

I believe that this question could have been determined by research of magnetic declination from traditional sources, without spamming for my attention on the forums.

And how with either the monopole model or duo pole model does the declination work?

On a globe earth the poles are below the magnetic poles, and the lines of force are at 90 degrees to the surface of the earth at the magnetic poles, and radiate from one pole to the next.

What are the lines of force on epithet of the models? If the earth has a monopole at the Center, and a South Pole at the circumfrance, then the lines of force dont work, and you would not get the dip in the south hemisphere, and a compass needle would not know where to point, as there would be no directional force.

On a multi pole earth, as depicted, or any possible depiction, it is not possible that a compass needle points towards the North Pole, at one end, and any possible South Pole at the other end of the needle. Try it. Draw a little compass needle that points at the Center, and then look at the where 180 degrees away from that direction is. There will be only 1 meridian that it works on.

So lines of magnetic force DO NOT work on a flat earth as far as i can see. Maybe you can enlighten and teach me. I cannot find any such descriptions in the Wiki, or in Enag, or other literature.

[Tom Bishop]

Magnetic declination would also occur in a Monopole model. Vertical at the North Pole, and horizontal at mid latitudes, and then intersecting the earth again beyond the Ice Wall circumference.

There were some illustrations floating around, and Pete made some in this link, but unfortunately they do not seem to be showing up for me anymore and I failed to create an article for the Wiki.

[Tontogary]

Magnetic declination would also occur in a Monopole model. Vertical at the North Pole, and horizontal at mid latitudes, and then intersecting the earth again beyond the Ice Wall diameter.

There were some illustrations floating around, and Pete made some in this link, but unfortunately they do not seem to be showing up for me anymore and I failed to create an article for the Wiki.

So if they are intersecting the earths surface beyond the ice wall they are parallel to the surface below the equator?

You do know that the angle of the dip equates to the magnetic lattitude yes? So when the horizontal angle is zero the observer is more or less at the equator, and when the angle of dip is about 45 degrees, the observer is about 45 degrees north or south (magnetic lattitude) so how does that work with the South Pole beyond the ice wall?

Is there a pole all around the ice wall, beyond it? And if so, why does a south seeking compass point south, as there would be no horizontal force from one point to another. Ie when standing looking at the Ice wall, the south end of the compass points south, but I’df the South Pole is ALL ALONG the circumfrance then why does the needle not point to the left or right of where you are looking, as there will be a South Pole there too?

There would be no directional force.

[Max_Almond]

Here's a magnetic declination map:



Work for you, T?

[Tom Bishop]

Is there a pole all around the ice wall, beyond it? And if so, why does a south seeking compass point south, as there would be no horizontal force from one point to another. Ie when standing looking at the Ice wall, the south end of the compass points south, but I’df the South Pole is ALL ALONG the circumfrance then why does the needle not point to the left or right of where you are looking, as there will be a South Pole there too?

The magnetic field lines in a magnet only run north-south.

[Tom Bishop]

Here's a magnetic declination:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/WV1BK.jpg

Work for you, T?

The point illustrated in your image is just the theory where the vertical field lines are most vertical and concentrated. One may deign it as the "point of Magnetic South" if one wishes. But the magnetic field lines are still vertical throughout Antarctica. If Antarctica is stretched out, the filed lines are still vertical there.

The actual magnet is deep within the earth and the field lines are intersecting the surface in attempt to reach it.

[Tontogary]

Here's a magnetic declination:

https://i.stack.imgur.com/WV1BK.jpg

Work for you, T?

The point illustrated in your image is just the theory where the vertical field lines are most vertical and concentrated. One may deign it as the "point of Magnetic South" if one wishes. But the magnetic field lines are still vertical throughout Antarctica. If Antarctica is stretched out, the filed lines are still vertical there.

The actual magnet is deep within the earth and the field lines are intersecting the surface in attempt to reach it.

Really tom?

I have asked this before, but how do you make that happen? A South Pole that is continuallly along the circumfrsnce behind the ice wall?
If you have a series of vertical bar magnets in the earth perpendicular to the flat earth, then the circumstance will tear itself apart as the south poles repel.
If you have a radial ring type magnet as the Wiki describes, that wouldn’t work either as a ring radial magnet cannot have a point source at the middle, again as the forces would tear it apart as the like pole tries to repel itself.

The multi pole version of the earth does not work either, as no lines of force can be reconciled with Antarctica being on the flat earth.

This topic has got way off line (as usual) and i am happy to start a new thread about the earths magnetic field, but also i know i did start a thread along those lines, with little real response.

[iamcpc]

Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?

Did I book this particular flight? no.

I have a flown from South America to Australia in less than 15 hours? Yes.



If the flight was booked is a moot point. My OP has already been debunked by saying (on a different thread):
1.over a certain unknown distance, a round earth second is different than a flat earth second and a round earth mile is different than a flat earth mile.
2. The map of the earth that started this original post is inaccurate and no accurate map of the earth exists.

It's a shame that with all the advancements with cartography made since 1600 we still have no idea what the earth looks like.  Without an accurate map of the earth, accurate distances, and accurate times I can't help but wonder how on earth any sort of navigation is done at all...

[Tontogary]

Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?

Did I book this particular flight? no.

I have a flown from South America to Australia in less than 15 hours? Yes.



If the flight was booked is a moot point. My OP has already been debunked by saying (on a different thread):
1.over a certain unknown distance, a round earth second is different than a flat earth second and a round earth mile is different than a flat earth mile.
2. The map of the earth that started this original post is inaccurate and no accurate map of the earth exists.

It's a shame that with all the advancements with cartography made since 1600 we still have no idea what the earth looks like.  Without an accurate map of the earth, accurate distances, and accurate times I can't help but wonder how on earth any sort of navigation is done at all...

Navigation happens quite often, and very successfully. There are over 50,000 merchant ships in the world, Plus Many more thousands of private super yachts, and hundreds of thousands of yachts, and likely millions of sailors, and not that many (relatively) go aground or sink, run out of fuel, or get lost due to not knowing where the different continents are, or being surprised by distances from one port to another being different than tabulated and published.

Also planes manage to find their way every day, and that means many millions dont get lost.

Yeah its a wonder how that happens when we dont have any accurate representation of the flat earth at all, not even a vague idea where the continents are.

Of course the answer is simple, we use a globe earth model for navigating, and it works fine. Amazing how all those coincidences add up isn’t it?
We dont know where any land is or size and shape of the continents or bearing or directions between any mcities, ports, islands or other places.
We set out to go from one place to another and millions of times we end up where we need to be at the right time, using the fuel we calculated,
We dont fall out of the sky often or crash, or run out of fuel,
We use the round earth model for all of our calculations,
We use satellites for navigation,
Stars and sun for navigating (depending on the globe earth models)
We dont fall off the edge of the world,

Yet somehow, miraculously this all comes good with no satellites, and a flat earth model no one knows anything about, size, shape, let alone how many poles it has or position of the land masses or where the water is.

Please come on FEers, you have lost, and making embarrassing fools of yourselves thinking that coincidentally all of the things (plus thousands of others) somehow (although reliant upon a globe) coincidentally work on a flat earth.