[Scroogie]

The following is from "Atmolayer Lip Hypothesis":
"In our local area the heat of the day comes from the sun, moving and swashing around wind currents between areas of low pressures and areas of high pressures with its heat. Beyond the known world, where the rays of the sun do not reach, the tundra of ice and snow lays in perpetual darkness. If one could move away from the Antarctic rim into the uncharted tundra the surrounding temperatures, and therefore pressures, would drop lower and lower. Defining the exact length of the gradient would take some looking into, but at a significant distance past the edge of the Ice Wall temperatures will drop to a point where barometric pressure nears the zero mark."

Atmospheric pressure in the habitable area of earth (here) is substantially higher than the atmospheric pressure beyond the "ice wall".

It has been observed that a gas will inevitably flow from a high pressure area to a low pressure area.

Where do you think our atmosphere is going to go under the proposed conditions?

[AATW]

The page also says

The atmosphere may very well exist as a lip upon the surface of the earth, held in by vast gradients of declining pressure.

Held IN by declining pressure?   
How would that work?

[Pete Svarrior]

Given that Tau has been gone for some time, I strongly doubt you'll get much clarification on the ALH. However, from my conversations with him in the past I speculate that you're taking the phrase "held in" more literally than what was intended. "Surrounded" would perhaps be a better word.

[AATW]

I see. OK. But given that gas will tend to flow from higher pressure to lower, what stops the atmodome from simply drifting off into space?
In the RE model it's gravity, but if you don't accept gravity then what holds the atmodome on a plane which is accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s2?
I know some FE models suggest a physical dome, that would work I guess. Otherwise I don't know how that would work.

[Pete Svarrior]

To my understanding, this is part of the Aetheric Whirlpool Model. As I said, the main person behind it is long gone. You are unlikely to gather much info.

[AATW]

Fair enough. Do you have any thoughts on what keeps the atmodome in place?
Physical dome? Some other force or pressure?

[Pete Svarrior]

This is far from accurate, but for brevity I'll say that I believe in a de facto infinite plane. In my view, the atmolayer is just that - a layer that stretches throughout. The Earth's acceleration and the dispersal of the atmolayer are more-or-less in equilibrium.

[spoonbow]

This is far from accurate, but for brevity I'll say that I believe in a de facto infinite plane. In my view, the atmolayer is just that - a layer that stretches throughout. The Earth's acceleration and the dispersal of the atmolayer are more-or-less in equilibrium.

Just for clarification, when you say infinite do you mean that literally, or just in the sense that we presently have no way of determining the actual boundaries?  Not nitpicking, as this has great bearing on the original question of atmosphere equalizing between high and low pressures.

Thank you

[Tom Bishop]

The following is from "Atmolayer Lip Hypothesis":
"In our local area the heat of the day comes from the sun, moving and swashing around wind currents between areas of low pressures and areas of high pressures with its heat. Beyond the known world, where the rays of the sun do not reach, the tundra of ice and snow lays in perpetual darkness. If one could move away from the Antarctic rim into the uncharted tundra the surrounding temperatures, and therefore pressures, would drop lower and lower. Defining the exact length of the gradient would take some looking into, but at a significant distance past the edge of the Ice Wall temperatures will drop to a point where barometric pressure nears the zero mark."

Atmospheric pressure in the habitable area of earth (here) is substantially higher than the atmospheric pressure beyond the "ice wall".

It has been observed that a gas will inevitably flow from a high pressure area to a low pressure area.

Where do you think our atmosphere is going to go under the proposed conditions?

There is nothing wrong with that article.

Gas will flow from a high pressure area into a low pressure area only if the temperatures can equalize. High temperature gas is defined by high pressure and low temperature gas is defined by low pressure.

If you put a balloon in a freezer it shrinks, showing that temperature also plays a part in the pressure of the balloon trying to escape.

If you could continue decreasing the temperature the balloon would get smaller and floppier until the atoms are barely moving, seemingly deflated in a heap at the bottom of the freezer.

Therefore, if the surrounding environments of the earth are cold enough, it is possible for the environment to keep the high pressures of the habitable area centralized as a gradient.

[AATW]

That all sounds like rationalization, Tom, rather than anything you have gleaned from observations.
I thought you didn't work that way?

[Pete Svarrior]

Just for clarification, when you say infinite do you mean that literally, or just in the sense that we presently have no way of determining the actual boundaries?

I do not mean it literally, but it would be impractical to elaborate without stretching too far away from the thread subject. I'm already pushing the boundaries here, and I'd rather step back than press on.

[Tom Bishop]

That all sounds like rationalization, Tom, rather than anything you have gleaned from observations.
I thought you didn't work that way?

There are a lot of experiments behind the idea that there is a correlation between temperature and pressure. Its not some abstract theory.

And rationalization is fine when used as preliminary method of inquiry. That is why the title of that page is Atmolayer Lip "Hypothesis", and why I used "possible" in my last post when referring to how the surrounding cold pressures around the habitable areas could work. The point of my Empericism chapter is that many of the conclusions and truths we are taught are based on rationalization, and this is inappropriate.

[spoonbow]

Just for clarification, when you say infinite do you mean that literally, or just in the sense that we presently have no way of determining the actual boundaries?

I do not mean it literally, but it would be impractical to elaborate without stretching too far away from the thread subject. I'm already pushing the boundaries here, and I'd rather step back than press on.

Thanks Pete. Looks like this is going to end up being a wash, as we're heading to a discussion involving thermal mass, heat loss, radiation, and a whole other pile of physics that I don't think anyone is going to be able to present in a clear, concise manner that the entire audience can comprehend. Not to mention areas of high and low atmospheric pressure existing in conditions unrelated to atmospheric heating, etc, etc etc.   

[StinkyOne]

The following is from "Atmolayer Lip Hypothesis":
"In our local area the heat of the day comes from the sun, moving and swashing around wind currents between areas of low pressures and areas of high pressures with its heat. Beyond the known world, where the rays of the sun do not reach, the tundra of ice and snow lays in perpetual darkness. If one could move away from the Antarctic rim into the uncharted tundra the surrounding temperatures, and therefore pressures, would drop lower and lower. Defining the exact length of the gradient would take some looking into, but at a significant distance past the edge of the Ice Wall temperatures will drop to a point where barometric pressure nears the zero mark."

Atmospheric pressure in the habitable area of earth (here) is substantially higher than the atmospheric pressure beyond the "ice wall".

It has been observed that a gas will inevitably flow from a high pressure area to a low pressure area.

Where do you think our atmosphere is going to go under the proposed conditions?

There is nothing wrong with that article.

Gas will flow from a high pressure area into a low pressure area only if the temperatures can equalize. High temperature gas is defined by high pressure and low temperature gas is defined by low pressure.

If you put a balloon in a freezer it shrinks, showing that temperature also plays a part in the pressure of the balloon trying to escape.

If you could continue decreasing the temperature the balloon would get smaller and floppier until the atoms are barely moving, seemingly deflated in a heap at the bottom of the freezer.

Therefore, if the surrounding environments of the earth are cold enough, it is possible for the environment to keep the high pressures of the habitable area centralized as a gradient.

Tom, there is something very wrong with the article. You make the unnoticed assumption that there is something containing the realm of zero pressure. (a vacuum) The fact is, there is nothing to prevent all air being sucked into that realm. Even if your imaginary gradient existed, it would continually be pulled deeper into this super cold realm. It would never stop and would result in the atmosphere being sucked away. In the real world, this is likely what happened to less massive bodies - they lost their atmospheres to the vacuum of space.
Long story short, you've essentially hypothesized an environment equivalent to space and no method of containing the outflow. You should consider removing that from the Wiki because it is clearly and fundamentally wrong.

[Tom Bishop]

The following is from "Atmolayer Lip Hypothesis":
"In our local area the heat of the day comes from the sun, moving and swashing around wind currents between areas of low pressures and areas of high pressures with its heat. Beyond the known world, where the rays of the sun do not reach, the tundra of ice and snow lays in perpetual darkness. If one could move away from the Antarctic rim into the uncharted tundra the surrounding temperatures, and therefore pressures, would drop lower and lower. Defining the exact length of the gradient would take some looking into, but at a significant distance past the edge of the Ice Wall temperatures will drop to a point where barometric pressure nears the zero mark."

Atmospheric pressure in the habitable area of earth (here) is substantially higher than the atmospheric pressure beyond the "ice wall".

It has been observed that a gas will inevitably flow from a high pressure area to a low pressure area.

Where do you think our atmosphere is going to go under the proposed conditions?

There is nothing wrong with that article.

Gas will flow from a high pressure area into a low pressure area only if the temperatures can equalize. High temperature gas is defined by high pressure and low temperature gas is defined by low pressure.

If you put a balloon in a freezer it shrinks, showing that temperature also plays a part in the pressure of the balloon trying to escape.

If you could continue decreasing the temperature the balloon would get smaller and floppier until the atoms are barely moving, seemingly deflated in a heap at the bottom of the freezer.

Therefore, if the surrounding environments of the earth are cold enough, it is possible for the environment to keep the high pressures of the habitable area centralized as a gradient.

Tom, there is something very wrong with the article. You make the unnoticed assumption that there is something containing the realm of zero pressure. (a vacuum) The fact is, there is nothing to prevent all air being sucked into that realm. Even if your imaginary gradient existed, it would continually be pulled deeper into this super cold realm. It would never stop and would result in the atmosphere being sucked away. In the real world, this is likely what happened to less massive bodies - they lost their atmospheres to the vacuum of space.
Long story short, you've essentially hypothesized an environment equivalent to space and no method of containing the outflow. You should consider removing that from the Wiki because it is clearly and fundamentally wrong.

Take a look at this video of what happens when balloons full of air are frozen. The atoms practically come to a halt when temperatures are low:



If the atoms can't move as they traverse across the icy tundra, atoms coming to a halt in very low temperature as illustrated in the above video, how could the entire atmolayer be sucked away if there were a hypothetical edge further outwards?

[AATW]

OK. I'll admit my physics is a little rusty but you need to understand the difference between movement because of temperature (that is basically what heat is - more movement = more heat, that's why there IS an absolute zero, when all movement ceases) and movement because of pressure.

It's like saying that because something is frozen solid you can't push it over.

Honestly Tom, I'm not a science graduate but you really do need to learn some physics and stop this ridiculous pseudo-science you come out with.

[Tom Bishop]

OK. I'll admit my physics is a little rusty but you need to understand the difference between movement because of temperature (that is basically what heat is - more movement = more heat, that's why there IS an absolute zero, when all movement ceases) and movement because of pressure.

It's like saying that because something is frozen solid you can't push it over.

Honestly Tom, I'm not a science graduate but you really do need to learn some physics and stop this ridiculous pseudo-science you come out with.

Look at the video I posted. When the balloons are frozen the atoms stop moving.

In the Flat Earth model, if the atoms of the atmolayer stopped moving in the icy tundra around the earth beyond the light of the sun due to very low temperatures, and if there was an edge at some distance further outwards, how could the entire atmolayer be sucked out off of the edge?

[xenotolerance]

Bro, what

Balloons collapse in liquid nitrogen specifically because of the higher pressure room temperature air equalizing into the balloon, whose pressure approaches zero when cooled by the nitrogen. This is expressly the opposite of what you're trying to demonstrate and just supports the case against you more.

also, the atoms do not stop moving, they're not even close to absolute zero, and nothing ever has actually gotten to absolute zero, you hack

Can you provide evidence of anyone ever observing 'an extreme low temperature environment where high pressure cannot equalize into?' Can you point us to a record of empirical observations of 'the icy tundra around the earth beyond the light of the sun?' Are you even a zetetic at all? Aren't you just rationalizing the tundra into existence because you assume a priori the Earth must be flat?

The answers are no, no, no, and yes, btw

[AATW]

OK. I'll admit my physics is a little rusty but you need to understand the difference between movement because of temperature (that is basically what heat is - more movement = more heat, that's why there IS an absolute zero, when all movement ceases) and movement because of pressure.

It's like saying that because something is frozen solid you can't push it over.

Honestly Tom, I'm not a science graduate but you really do need to learn some physics and stop this ridiculous pseudo-science you come out with.

Look at the video I posted. When the balloons are frozen the atoms stop moving.

In the Flat Earth model, if the atoms of the atmolayer stopped moving in the icy tundra around the earth beyond the light of the sun due to very low temperatures, and if there was an edge at some distance further outwards, how could the entire atmolayer be sucked out off of the edge?

As things cool down the molecules vibrate less. That is the movement you are talking about, that is what slows down when something cools.
But while it's still a gas it doesn't form some barrier to stop pressure equalising. So unless the pressure is equal there is nothing to stop the "atmolayer" from being sucked off the edge.
Again, I suggest you learn some science if you don't even understand why what you're saying is nonsensical.

[Tom Bishop]

The balloons are clearly seen to deflate and drop when the temperatures are low. The atoms are much less excited. If the atoms were really trying harder to escape as the temperature decreased, the balloon would expand, not deflate.

Assuming that we were in a freezer of similar temperature to the liquid nitrogen, are you saying that if we were to take one of those dead and frozen balloons and cut it, that it would explode as the air violently rushes outwards? That is clearly NOT what would happen. This illustrates the concept that the air would not be "sucked off the edge of the earth" in the Flat Earth model if there were an edge at some point into the icy tundra.