[Tom Bishop]

There are plenty of gyroscope experiments showing no rotation.

Those laser ring gyroscope are seisometers and are not truly detecting rotation of the surface beneath them. If you want to talk about gyroscopes start a thread about it.

When you guys start changing the topic it is a message that "I am losing this argument!"

[AATW]

This thread is about the Coriolis effect. That effect is caused by the fact we're on a spinning globe.
Mentioning an experiment performed by flat earthers to show we are not living on a spinning globe but which showed instead that we actually are is completely relevant to this thread.

[George Jetson]

We have an article on our Wiki about the hurricanes. Start a new thread if you want to talk about that.

The articles say that there was a time when mainstream science tested the Coriolis Effect in containers, with inconclusive results. The tests involved bathtubs and pools that of various sizes, such as the 6 foot  diameter ones mentioned in the articles, and were carefully conducted in laboratory setting. If there was a valid and repeatable effect on the direction of water vortexes it would have been found and paraded as evidence of the Coriolis Effect, and you would have a plethora of studies and documentation to point to, rather than controversy and unrepeatable results.

The Coriolis experiments are basically convoluted gyroscope experiments, right?

Maybe we should also check into some gyroscope experiments. In fact, I think some of those were started using a very expensive high accuracy gyro, but I haven't been able to find the results.

Does anybody know anything about the progress on that? If the gyro shows no rotation, then it's slam dunk, no need to worry about spinning water.

Speaking of gyros, from the recent doc 'Behind the Curve'. Bob Knodel, part of the Globebusters team, takes us through their attempt to debunk a spinning earth with a pricey ring laser gyro. It didn't end well.

Ignoring the suspicious nature of the video (why would Knodel say such a damning thing in full view of the cameraman if it was "confidential"...shill?) the ring-laser gyroscope has already been addressed numerous times on this forum and alternative explanations have been proffered (eg. aether drift or seismic effects).  It is utterly unscientific to assume that an observation confirms your preferred view without refuting alternate explanations.  You also need to explain why mechanical gyroscopes don't show drift (or demonstrate that mechanical gyros do show drift) but ring laser gyros do if you are to hold the ring-laser gyroscope as proof of earth spin.

[stack]

Ignoring the suspicious nature of the video (why would Knodel say such a damning thing in full view of the cameraman if it was "confidential"...shill?)

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

the ring-laser gyroscope has already been addressed numerous times on this forum and alternative explanations have been proffered (eg. aether drift or seismic effects).  It is utterly unscientific to assume that an observation confirms your preferred view without refuting alternate explanations.  You also need to explain why mechanical gyroscopes don't show drift (or demonstrate that mechanical gyros do show drift) but ring laser gyros do if you are to hold the ring-laser gyroscope as proof of earth spin.

Aether, maybe. Though lots of evidence against it as a transmission medium.
Seismic? Not so much when part of an Inertial Navigation System in a plane. Not may seismic events at 35k ft.
Lastly, 15 degrees per hour drift. As predicted by the spinning earth FE model.

[TomFoolery]

Speaking of gyros, from the recent doc 'Behind the Curve'. Bob Knodel, part of the Globebusters team, takes us through their attempt to debunk a spinning earth with a pricey ring laser gyro. It didn't end well.

Ahh.. That is the gyro I'd heard about. Doing a little googling, it looks like Bob Knodel may not be a highly reliable source though?

As far as I can tell, he used to claim to be a commercial pilot, but changed his story when people started to look into it. I just checked the FAA website and there are two Robert Knodel's with pilots license  -- R M Knodel who was born around 1929, got his pilots license around 1956 and is listed as a commercial pilot with no medical, and passed away a few years ago at age 85. The other one had his last medical in 1978, a third class, and is listed as a private pilot.

Then with his odd behavior about the gyro, I'm not sure if maybe he's got ties with the establishment or what his agenda is.

And it's not just information reliability that interests me about this pilots license issue, it's the topic of a pilot to begin with. Someone who's a commercial pilot who may have flown all over the earth is someone I'd love to talk with, as would all flat earthers I'm sure.

Perhaps he claimed it so we'd trust him, then went through this gyro thing so he can then say "Oh, it does appear the earth is turning.. hush hush.." all in an effort to counter flat earth.

I guess we need a new gyro test though.

[George Jetson]

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

There were multiple cameramen at close proximity focused on Bob and the other guy.  You would think Bob would have noticed.

the ring-laser gyroscope has already been addressed numerous times on this forum and alternative explanations have been proffered (eg. aether drift or seismic effects).  It is utterly unscientific to assume that an observation confirms your preferred view without refuting alternate explanations.  You also need to explain why mechanical gyroscopes don't show drift (or demonstrate that mechanical gyros do show drift) but ring laser gyros do if you are to hold the ring-laser gyroscope as proof of earth spin.

Aether, maybe. Though lots of evidence against it as a transmission medium.
Seismic? Not so much when part of an Inertial Navigation System in a plane. Not may seismic events at 35k ft.
Lastly, 15 degrees per hour drift. As predicted by the spinning earth FE model.

The sun is oberved to move at a constant rate of approximately 15 degrees per hour.  There is no prediction involved, merely observation which can be interpreted multiple ways.  The seismic thing was a reference to Tom's previous post; he can elaborate on it if he wants, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about that.

[TomFoolery]

The sun is oberved to move at a constant rate of approximately 15 degrees per hour.  There is no prediction involved, merely observation which can be interpreted multiple ways.  The seismic thing was a reference to Tom's previous post; he can elaborate on it if he wants, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about that.

(I hope I got that quote correctly attributed..)

I don't think there's any dispute that the apparent angular position of the sun changes by 15 degrees per hour from anyplace on earth.
I think the question is whether the sun is moving around or the earth is turning.

Wait. am I confused here? Is it even possible for it to appear to move 15 degrees per hour to everyone on the sunny area at the same time?

I might need to mock up a model.

[stack]

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

There were multiple cameramen at close proximity focused on Bob and the other guy.  You would think Bob would have noticed.

I have no idea the number of cameras nor their proximity to any subjects. Could easily be one camera shooting B roll. The shots of Mr. Knodel and the other guy could be zoomed in, the cut to his listener could just be a shot lifted or even cropped. I guess only Mr. Knodel and the filmmakers could answer the question. I don't think we have enough to go on to adequately dissect the scene.

And as for Mr. Knodel and Globebusters, no mention of the $20k ring gyro experiments have been on their show. It's like it never existed. And no stomping of feet by Mr. Knodel across the web claiming the filmmakers misrepresented anything. Perhaps he just wants it to all go away. Anyone's guess really.

As to "hot mics", happens all the time with lavs. I work in the biz and if I had a nickel for every time my soundman's eyes grew really wide when he heard in his cans a subject/actor say something not meant to be heard by others while seemingly off camera I'd be a rich man.

[TomFoolery]

Upon rewatching, it does look like the last scene is a hot mic episode.
The camera movement looks like someone trying to hold a camera steady that's zoomed way in from some distance away.
But the earlier footage he's knowingly stating 15 degrees per hour were measured on camera, unless it's someone else's voice being dubbed in, it's hard to tell because the video clips are so short and jump around so much it's hard to see how well it syncs to his lips.

Any deaf people here who can read lips to see what he was saying in the video?

Well anyway I guess this is way off topic, sorry..

[George Jetson]

The sun is oberved to move at a constant rate of approximately 15 degrees per hour.  There is no prediction involved, merely observation which can be interpreted multiple ways.  The seismic thing was a reference to Tom's previous post; he can elaborate on it if he wants, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about that.

(I hope I got that quote correctly attributed..)

I don't think there's any dispute that the apparent angular position of the sun changes by 15 degrees per hour from anyplace on earth.
I think the question is whether the sun is moving around or the earth is turning.

Wait. am I confused here? Is it even possible for it to appear to move 15 degrees per hour to everyone on the sunny area at the same time?

I might need to mock up a model.

If it were the aether that were causing the movement at that rate then the laser ring gyro would record the same angular velocity so the bare fact that the 15 degrees is recorded by the gyro is inconclusive as to whether aether drift or the mechanical effect of Earth's rotation is being recorded.

[George Jetson]

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

There were multiple cameramen at close proximity focused on Bob and the other guy.  You would think Bob would have noticed.

I have no idea the number of cameras nor their proximity to any subjects. Could easily be one camera shooting B roll. The shots of Mr. Knodel and the other guy could be zoomed in, the cut to his listener could just be a shot lifted or even cropped. I guess only Mr. Knodel and the filmmakers could answer the question. I don't think we have enough to go on to adequately dissect the scene.

And as for Mr. Knodel and Globebusters, no mention of the $20k ring gyro experiments have been on their show. It's like it never existed. And no stomping of feet by Mr. Knodel across the web claiming the filmmakers misrepresented anything. Perhaps he just wants it to all go away. Anyone's guess really.

As to "hot mics", happens all the time with lavs. I work in the biz and if I had a nickel for every time my soundman's eyes grew really wide when he heard in his cans a subject/actor say something not meant to be heard by others while seemingly off camera I'd be a rich man.

I have listened to Globebusters before and I recall Knodel discussing the experiment and claiming aether drift was responsible for the observation.  I suspect the maker of the Youtube footage selectively edited to make Knodel look bad (or worse than he would have if the entire context was provided) but I can't be bothered to watch that silly documentary.

[stack]

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

There were multiple cameramen at close proximity focused on Bob and the other guy.  You would think Bob would have noticed.

I have no idea the number of cameras nor their proximity to any subjects. Could easily be one camera shooting B roll. The shots of Mr. Knodel and the other guy could be zoomed in, the cut to his listener could just be a shot lifted or even cropped. I guess only Mr. Knodel and the filmmakers could answer the question. I don't think we have enough to go on to adequately dissect the scene.

And as for Mr. Knodel and Globebusters, no mention of the $20k ring gyro experiments have been on their show. It's like it never existed. And no stomping of feet by Mr. Knodel across the web claiming the filmmakers misrepresented anything. Perhaps he just wants it to all go away. Anyone's guess really.

As to "hot mics", happens all the time with lavs. I work in the biz and if I had a nickel for every time my soundman's eyes grew really wide when he heard in his cans a subject/actor say something not meant to be heard by others while seemingly off camera I'd be a rich man.

I have listened to Globebusters before and I recall Knodel discussing the experiment and claiming aether drift was responsible for the observation.  I suspect the maker of the Youtube footage selectively edited to make Knodel look bad (or worse than he would have if the entire context was provided) but I can't be bothered to watch that silly documentary.

Yes, the only reference from globebusters discussing an RLG at length is in regard to Aether, Sagnac, etc. is from a vid they did a year and a half or so ago. But it wasn't an experiment. To date, I can't find any globebusters/Knodel reference to the $20k RLG experiments they did last year.

As to the aether, that's why he presumably said they put it in the gauss chamber. Still, they got the RE result.

As to the YTr selectively editing the footage. S/he did not. I saw the documentary in it's entirety a month ago. The clip posted is the exact clip from the film and it's contextually accurate. Not misrepresented at all.

[George Jetson]

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

There were multiple cameramen at close proximity focused on Bob and the other guy.  You would think Bob would have noticed.

I have no idea the number of cameras nor their proximity to any subjects. Could easily be one camera shooting B roll. The shots of Mr. Knodel and the other guy could be zoomed in, the cut to his listener could just be a shot lifted or even cropped. I guess only Mr. Knodel and the filmmakers could answer the question. I don't think we have enough to go on to adequately dissect the scene.

And as for Mr. Knodel and Globebusters, no mention of the $20k ring gyro experiments have been on their show. It's like it never existed. And no stomping of feet by Mr. Knodel across the web claiming the filmmakers misrepresented anything. Perhaps he just wants it to all go away. Anyone's guess really.

As to "hot mics", happens all the time with lavs. I work in the biz and if I had a nickel for every time my soundman's eyes grew really wide when he heard in his cans a subject/actor say something not meant to be heard by others while seemingly off camera I'd be a rich man.

I have listened to Globebusters before and I recall Knodel discussing the experiment and claiming aether drift was responsible for the observation.  I suspect the maker of the Youtube footage selectively edited to make Knodel look bad (or worse than he would have if the entire context was provided) but I can't be bothered to watch that silly documentary.

Yes, the only reference from globebusters discussing an RLG at length is in regard to Aether, Sagnac, etc. is from a vid they did a year and a half or so ago. But it wasn't an experiment. To date, I can't find any globebusters/Knodel reference to the $20k RLG experiments they did last year.

As to the aether, that's why he presumably said they put it in the gauss chamber. Still, they got the RE result.

As to the YTr selectively editing the footage. S/he did not. I saw the documentary in it's entirety a month ago. The clip posted is the exact clip from the film and it's contextually accurate. Not misrepresented at all.

I specifically remember him mentioning the experiment and how detractors said that he proved that Earth was spinning.

The Zero Gauss chamber would not necessarily be able to block aether flow:  the aether drift is not electromagnetic radiation.

[stack]

Generally referred to as a "hot mic" event.

There were multiple cameramen at close proximity focused on Bob and the other guy.  You would think Bob would have noticed.

I have no idea the number of cameras nor their proximity to any subjects. Could easily be one camera shooting B roll. The shots of Mr. Knodel and the other guy could be zoomed in, the cut to his listener could just be a shot lifted or even cropped. I guess only Mr. Knodel and the filmmakers could answer the question. I don't think we have enough to go on to adequately dissect the scene.

And as for Mr. Knodel and Globebusters, no mention of the $20k ring gyro experiments have been on their show. It's like it never existed. And no stomping of feet by Mr. Knodel across the web claiming the filmmakers misrepresented anything. Perhaps he just wants it to all go away. Anyone's guess really.

As to "hot mics", happens all the time with lavs. I work in the biz and if I had a nickel for every time my soundman's eyes grew really wide when he heard in his cans a subject/actor say something not meant to be heard by others while seemingly off camera I'd be a rich man.

I have listened to Globebusters before and I recall Knodel discussing the experiment and claiming aether drift was responsible for the observation.  I suspect the maker of the Youtube footage selectively edited to make Knodel look bad (or worse than he would have if the entire context was provided) but I can't be bothered to watch that silly documentary.

Yes, the only reference from globebusters discussing an RLG at length is in regard to Aether, Sagnac, etc. is from a vid they did a year and a half or so ago. But it wasn't an experiment. To date, I can't find any globebusters/Knodel reference to the $20k RLG experiments they did last year.

As to the aether, that's why he presumably said they put it in the gauss chamber. Still, they got the RE result.

As to the YTr selectively editing the footage. S/he did not. I saw the documentary in it's entirety a month ago. The clip posted is the exact clip from the film and it's contextually accurate. Not misrepresented at all.

I specifically remember him mentioning the experiment and how detractors said that he proved that Earth was spinning.

The Zero Gauss chamber would not necessarily be able to block aether flow:  the aether drift is not electromagnetic radiation.

Maybe he did mention the experiment. I personally haven't been able to find a reference of the $20k RLG experiments other than what's in the documentary.  If you have the link please share it. I would like to see how he explains himself.

As to Zero Gauss chamber and whether it would block aether flow, I don't know. Something we'd have to hear from Mr Knodel as to why he thought it a good idea or using a Bismuth chamber as well.

[TomFoolery]

As to Zero Gauss chamber and whether it would block aether flow, I don't know. Something we'd have to hear from Mr Knodel as to why he thought it a good idea or using a Bismuth chamber as well.

Bismuth is repelled by magnetic field, slightly.

[Max_Almond]

Maybe he did mention the experiment. I personally haven't been able to find a reference of the $20k RLG experiments other than what's in the documentary.  If you have the link please share it. I would like to see how he explains himself.

Watch from 32:17 in this video to see Bob spinning the results of his gyroscope faux pas:



The part that follows that is interesting also, where he gets called out for lying about his piloting and engineering credentials, and quickly removes the claims from his websites.

[stack]

Maybe he did mention the experiment. I personally haven't been able to find a reference of the $20k RLG experiments other than what's in the documentary.  If you have the link please share it. I would like to see how he explains himself.

Watch from in this video to see Bob spinning the results of his gyroscope faux pas:

The part that follows that is interesting also, where he gets called out for lying about his piloting and engineering credentials, and quickly removes the claims from his websites.

Thanks Max. This is just what I was looking for: Mr.Knodel specifically addressing the $20k gyro experiments. He starts talking about it in earnest at 37:28. And goes on about how it's super precise, they got 15 degrees per hour but...insert word salad...then yeah we got 15 degrees per hour but....etc.

I read somewhere that it was thought the RLG (aka Fiber Optic Gyro) purchase came through fecore.org, Mr. Knodel being on the board there. But I can't find any reference to the RLG experiments there either except for in the projects/test results section there is one for Mechanical Gyroscopes. Though it is shown as "pending".

[TomFoolery]

Maybe he did mention the experiment. I personally haven't been able to find a reference of the $20k RLG experiments other than what's in the documentary.  If you have the link please share it. I would like to see how he explains himself.

Watch from 32:17 in this video to see Bob spinning the results of his gyroscope faux pas:



The part that follows that is interesting also, where he gets called out for lying about his piloting and engineering credentials, and quickly removes the claims from his websites.

Hmm interesting.

The odd thing is, I remember like a decade ago, before I even heard of flat earth, I remember reading about the ring laser gyro and how it measured the earth's rotation and even sidereal rotation. I would have thought Bob would have read that and not been so surprised.

But it really sounds like Bob doesn't understand that a gyro doesn't measure linear velocity - he kept referring to miles per hour.
A gyro by its very core construction measures rotation, not velocity.
Does he really not know that globers claim that the earth is rotating fast while all the other claimed rotations (earth around sun, sun around whatever) are very very slow?

This is all very odd.