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Theories is all we have
« on: April 10, 2018, 05:58:17 PM »
If you think about it, non of the things we have for flat-earth or round earth are even scientific laws. We don't know if it's flat, or round, we simply don't know. We are all assuming, I'm a flat-earther, but just looking at all the facts, we have a much better theory when it comes to flat or round debates, we have more facts, more knowledge of how the Earth actually works.

Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 06:17:49 PM »
we have a much better theory when it comes to flat or round debates, we have more facts, more knowledge of how the Earth actually works.
Can you explain how flat earth THEORY has more facts and knowledge of how the earth works?
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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 06:33:51 PM »
If you think about it, non of the things we have for flat-earth or round earth are even scientific laws. We don't know if it's flat, or round, we simply don't know. We are all assuming, I'm a flat-earther, but just looking at all the facts, we have a much better theory when it comes to flat or round debates, we have more facts, more knowledge of how the Earth actually works.

There's a significant difference between a "normal" theory (in science known as a hypothesis) and a scientific theory.
I recommend you watch this: https://youtu.be/lqk3TKuGNBA
In short, a scientific theory is the best description of how reality works we have at the time. It has to explain all observed facts and it mustn't contradict any of them. We also have to have a very good reason to believe it is real and it is the correct/best one among all other theories.

That's why the flat earth hypothesis didn't stand the test.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 06:43:34 PM by Stagiri »
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 07:01:41 PM »
bates, we have more facts, more knowledge of how the Earth actually works.

I'd disagree. The globe Earth model allows us to accurately calculate the movement of celestial bodies, phases of the Moon, daylight, eclipses, seasons, tides, and so on. I've yet to come across accurate calculations of these things which would be based on a flat Earth.
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 07:51:33 PM »
We don't know if it's flat, or round, we simply don't know. We are all assuming
See, this is where I'm going to disagree.
The earth has been observed from space, many humans have witnessed it.
We have GPS and satellite TV which prove that we have launched things into orbit. These things demonstrably work
The round earth model works, there is no flat earth model which does.
There are some debates in science right now, this isn't one and hasn't been for thousands of years.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Parallax

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 07:54:29 PM »
We don't have theories, we have solid facts. Dr Rowbotham was able to prove how flat earth works. His experiments were solid and this is proved in calculating the true distance of the sun and moon.

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 07:57:49 PM »
We don't have theories, we have solid facts. Dr Rowbotham was able to prove how flat earth works. His experiments were solid and this is proved in calculating the true distance of the sun and moon.

Well then, please provide us an accurate flat Earth map.
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

Offline Parallax

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 08:02:47 PM »
We don't have theories, we have solid facts. Dr Rowbotham was able to prove how flat earth works. His experiments were solid and this is proved in calculating the true distance of the sun and moon.

Well then, please provide us an accurate flat Earth map.


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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 08:18:20 PM »
We don't have theories, we have solid facts. Dr Rowbotham was able to prove how flat earth works. His experiments were solid and this is proved in calculating the true distance of the sun and moon.

Well then, please provide us an accurate flat Earth map.



It's really hard to make out the scale. The radius of the equator on that map is something around 6100-6300 km, am I right?
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 08:31:44 PM »
Says its a projection, clearly distances and flight paths wrong.

Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 08:47:49 PM »
We don't have theories, we have solid facts. Dr Rowbotham was able to prove how flat earth works. His experiments were solid and this is proved in calculating the true distance of the sun and moon.
Ever taken a crack at calculating that distance yourself? Dr Rowbotham claimed that the sun couldn't be more than 800 miles from the surface of the earth. This FE blogger however, figured it to be 6,200 miles:

 https://savageplane.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/calculating-the-distance-to-the-sun/

Would love to see your take.

Offline Parallax

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 08:55:30 PM »
Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 08:59:28 PM »
Mr Rowbowtham or all of modern science?
Yes, it is a real head-scratcher, that one.
The globe earth has been observed. This is not a theory or matter of debate.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 09:14:19 PM »
Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.

Classic argument ad hominem. If the blogger is right then he's right, if he's not he's not. Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger. The argument itself is independant of its "creator".
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline AATW

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 09:34:28 PM »
Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger.
Well, there's a good possibility that he was never a doctor anyway and just claimed to be because he thought it added some credibility to his ridiculous arguments.
Probably worked quite well back in the day when doctors would have been more respected than they are now.
Bit sad that people are still falling for it now though.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Parallax

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 09:44:33 PM »
Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.

Classic argument ad hominem. If the blogger is right then he's right, if he's not he's not. Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger. The argument itself is independant of its "creator".
Dr Rowbotham was a respected doctor who was able to provide scientific research to back up his experiments. In this case, Dr Rowbotham is correct.

Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 09:51:17 PM »
Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.

Classic argument ad hominem. If the blogger is right then he's right, if he's not he's not. Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger. The argument itself is independant of its "creator".
Dr Rowbotham was a respected doctor who was able to provide scientific research to back up his experiments. In this case, Dr Rowbotham is correct.
Please explain how measurements today prove him wrong.  If it was 700 miles high then angle from different parts of eg. US would be very different.

Offline Westprog

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2018, 11:02:14 PM »
Says its a projection, clearly distances and flight paths wrong.

It takes about ten minutes research of flight paths and times to show that this map doesn't work. But the interesting thing is that this doesn't matter to Parallax. He'd rather have a map that clearly doesn't work to one that explains all the data. That's the really interesting thing.

There's no real argument about whether the Earth is flat or not, but the ability of Parallax to continue to believe it is - that's interesting.

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2018, 01:07:07 AM »
Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.

Classic argument ad hominem. If the blogger is right then he's right, if he's not he's not. Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger. The argument itself is independant of its "creator".
Dr Rowbotham was a respected doctor who was able to provide scientific research to back up his experiments. In this case, Dr Rowbotham is correct.

Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.

Classic argument ad hominem. If the blogger is right then he's right, if he's not he's not. Having "Dr" before your name doesn't mean you are always right or better than someone who is "just" a blogger. The argument itself is independant of its "creator".
Dr Rowbotham was a respected doctor who was able to provide scientific research to back up his experiments. In this case, Dr Rowbotham is correct.

Charlatan Rowbotham did not present accurate facts to back up his crackpot theories.

Take the explanation of his attempt to explain why a compass needle is horizontal on about the equator.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za35.htm#page_227

He proudly boasts that on a round earth there can no way be a compass needle aligned horizontal with the earths surface, if the surface were a globe.
He also says and does not argue that the angle of dip of the needle increases in the north lattitude as well as the south, and in fact uses that as an observation that is not denied.

Now on that page is a diagram where he asserts that if the earth were round, then the compass needle will point to north, along a straight line represented by C-N. And makes the jump to the conclusion that it p[roves that the earth cannot be round.

There is a major flaw with his argument.
The compass needle does not point to a pole directly, lies parallel to the lines of magnetic flux, or force

The lines of magnetic force are represented on the attached picture, but dont believe me, get a magnet and iron filings, and a piece of paper. Zero cost if you have them, and do the experiment yourself.

On the other attached picture is shown the earths round shape and the magnetic field.

Now take this quote from EnaG

“and that the two facts that the compass always points towards the pole and yet on the equator lies without dip, cannot possibly co-exist on a globe. They do co-exist in nature, and are well ascertained and easily proved to do so, therefore the earth cannot possibly be a globe. They can co-exist on a plane with a northern or central region: they do beyond doubt co-exist, therefore, beyond doubt the earth is a plane.”

Taking his first statement, that a compass needle points towards the pole, is correct in a way, but the compass needle lies parallel to the lines of force, so will point north along the lines of longitude, (more or less) but the horizontal angle will be parallel to the lines of flux, and it is seen at the equator will be Horizontal, and dip increases in the north and south latitudes, which Charlatan Rowbotham says are “well ascertained and easily proved to do so” then this actually proves the earth is a globe, and debunks his theory.

This is a classic example of him getting a basic principle wrong, then using it to “prove” his theory, when in fact using the correct principle completely debunks his ideas.

The observation that the needle dips in the north and south equator is accepted and stated as a truth by him, but when you see the lines of force with the round earth placed on it, it is very evident that it does. More interestingly superimpose those lines of force on a plane surface and you cannot ever get the needle to do what it does, and that in fact disproves the flat earth theory!

So having debunked his methods on the first attempt, i can do so on most of his other flawed experiments.





Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: Theories is all we have
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2018, 05:29:48 AM »
Dr Rowbotham or a blogger? Yeah, I'm going with Dr Rowbotham.

Also it is less than 700 miles.
Prove it. Shouldn't take long.