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Messages - andruszkow

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21
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 12, 2017, 12:04:39 PM »
Quasi-socialist, eh? Is that your view on Europe? We're all holding hands and watch arte-noir movies together?

The taxation here allows us to have free health care, free education, 5 (in average 6, for some 7) weeks vacation a year, 6 months maternity leave etc etc. We don't complain, simply because all in all, it works. I don't even know what your point is with that, other than shooting yourself in the foot with that remark.

Your murder rate facts contradicts studies on the subject. Last time I checked, there was an increase of homicides that can be written off as justified related to the stand-your-ground law. The difference is cultural. The mindset is different. Our mindset is basically that people are not allowed to kill people. Your mindset is to implement exceptions.

In 2015, the murder rate in Kansas was higher than that of new york. Same with Nebraska.

22
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 12, 2017, 10:49:54 AM »
Well, I won't deny, some of the churches in question make me quite uncomfortable as well. I am merely pointing out that the loss in religiosity in this country is predominantly from the liberal wing.

The fact that the Bishop in charge of the Seaman's Church in Sweden actually recommended that crosses be removed from it and other churches, and that Muslim prayer rooms be opened in them in order to accommodate your Muslim guests should be an indicator that all is NOT well in the Kingdom. Granted, the suggestion was not acted upon, but the fact that someone was retarded enough to MAKE it...

The fact that the Government only lists a 1.5% of Muslims simply indicates under-reporting. Having read the data myself, it simply states that a person is counted as a religious Muslim if they say they are. If they neglect to answer the question... I have Swedish friends myself. And no, I don't actually watch ANY TV, let alone Fox News. I consider the television to be a bane of our society, and so only really own one for my wife's sake. I read my news and get it on the radio.

The reason crime rates are higher here is simple. We have 326 million people to control. There are nowhere near that many in Sweden, or Finland, or England, or what-have-you. Stupid question.

Notice, even the website admits there are places where the police struggle to do their duty. A government will rarely admit the full truth of a situation like that. So, ask yourself, how much worse is it than they are letting on?

That argument is simply bullshit. So do it on a per-capita basis.

Studies shows that the rates of murder, rape, corruption, state of health care, happiness, education etc are much worse in religious countries and states than in secular. In the 90s, a study even revealed that only 0.2% of the prison population in the US are atheist (agnostic). There's a tendency that states (US) with high murder rates are highly religious, while states with the lowest murder rates are among the least religious.

"The fact that the Government only lists a 1.5% of Muslims simply indicates under-reporting"

Inventing stuff like this doesn't grant you the right to treat whatever you say as facts, when 1) You're obviously wrong and 2) You're not taking the time necessary to actually fact check your comments about European countries. This is so typically American it hurts. You're an ignorant, and thank you for proving that.

So the prayer room suggestion was turned down. That's good. What are you trying to prove with this? There'll always be people making ill-founded suggestions like this, like the stand-your-ground Law. The difference is that suggestions like that doesn't come to life here.

23
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 12, 2017, 07:42:56 AM »
In fact, never mind about that. I really don't care about your views on that, you can rely on Fox news as much as you want and stay ignorant. It doesn't really change anything regarding religion and flat earth.

24
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 12, 2017, 07:37:10 AM »

You are getting all angry again Posi.

A few points, TTIOH is right about the arguments we had before they are fun but largely end in insults and anger (see above). Science doesn't  support Atheism, what it does/has done over the years is explain the stuff religions were there to do in the first place, the sun isn't carried across the world in a chariot and shoved through the underworld at night by a beetle (or was that the moon? Small matter), astronomy taking over from astrology etc. gradually it has eroded the need for myths with facts.

On your grasp of history. I take it you mean the second world war, no disrespect to the Americans who died in Europe, I have been to the American cemetery overlooking Omaha beach and a lot of brave men died there, but you didn't win the war, on balance it was the Russians with far greater loses and hardship (than both our nations combined) who bled the Nazi's war machine dry.

I don't dispute the Soviet role in WWII, but they still could not have done it without us, nor us without them.

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On loss of religion the USA is in the top 10 for notable decline, in at number 8  with a drop of 13% since 2005.

And interestingly enough, you will find that it is the liberal mainline Churches that are losing membership. The conservative ones are growing.

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On cesspool Europe? I have traveled it extensively and it's a vibrant open wonderful place, try something other than Fox news.

That so-called vibrant place is infested with Muslims, such that there are whole parts of cities where even the police do not go. Even our somewhat left of center CNN admits that. Sweden is now 11% Muslim, and is basically in the process of committing national-cultural suicide. But, right wing movements are on the rise, which I see as a good thing, as long as they can be controlled.

Of course, the Leftist sacks of $h!t will do what they can to prevent that. Like mischaracterising Marine le Pen when she says that the French Government had nothing to do with the round-up of Jews. What she meant, and she stated this, was that the Republic was in England, and the Vichy Government was NOT the legitimate government of France. But try to get the Left to admit that!

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As for “And things don't self-create, either. “, what Roundy said.

Already answered.

And like I said, I am not angry. I just don't tolerate a fool well. And that is what you appear to be.
Your wording suggests that Muslims are the main issue. If I had to go your route, as I see it, Europe is infested with religion. Not just Islam. However, apart from Islam growing (because of fugitives and lousy integration efforts), the nations of Europe are fairly secular in general.

Your comment about Sweden just doesn't fly. This is a typical remark from people subscribing to facts based on news only (in particular in America). I'm from Scandinavia myself. Swedens population might consist of a 11% Muslim minority. This doesn't make sweden 11% Muslim.

But let's play that game though. How are crime rates in America, across the board, compared to highly secular countries like Iceland, Sweden, Denmark and Norway for instance?

25
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« on: April 12, 2017, 07:16:01 AM »
I posted a video, Tom. Nirmala even did you the favor of adding a link here for the charts related to that video.

You asked for proofs, could you explain what we see, if you would be so kind?

26
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Problems with the Bishop Experiment
« on: April 11, 2017, 02:30:58 PM »
I tried this in a previous thread, Tom, but I'll reiterate over this piece of evidence as it fits this particular topic. This experiment is done by an acquaintance of mine. It clearly shows the position of testing throughout the video.

Explain, please.



27
Flat Earth Theory / Re: sun rising below the clouds
« on: April 11, 2017, 02:14:17 PM »
Note that in the first diagram with the smaller rectangle that represents the flat earth model, there is no way for the sun's rays to get under the clouds as even when the sun was far to the west, it would still be above the clouds, as even in the flat earth model, the sun is much further away than the clouds.

Have you considered that the position here is that the Sun appears to set into the horizon because of an optical illusion due to perspective? Have you accounted for that in your diagrams? Because even on a round earth, looking straight into the distance, the ground raises to meet the sky- which we know it doesn't really do.
That same perspective effect would apply to clouds as well. It's only a perspective effect, the sun doesn't actually touch the horizon as you obviously know, which means it would never be at an altitude above flat earth that would allow it to illuminate the clouds from below.

Last time I did a thread asking this question (Brocken spectre), the only reply that resembled an answer was trying to explain the illumination of the clouds from beneath with sunlight being reflected by the earth's surface. Until sandokhan came along that is.

28
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: April 10, 2017, 12:42:56 PM »


What nonsense. The celestial bodies are not painted on a curved sphere of glass surrounding the earth.

Who said that? You make up stuff as you go, or refuse to actually try and understand what's being said in our replies, and they are really straight forward answers, Tom.

Just get a string and try for yourself, damnit!

29
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: April 10, 2017, 06:17:38 AM »


If you say that't the moon's phase I will take your word for it. We must now explain why the angle of the rays which are entering the earth's atmosphere do not match up with the apparent position of the sun in the sky.

But they do, Tom, you're being offset by an effect that leaves you the same illusion as crepuscular rays does.

30
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 09, 2017, 05:17:10 PM »
He's not.. If you do worship Him this life, then you will attain an eternal life in heaven.. rather than hell. He created us to see who's the best in deeds. And the best ones have the chance to be there... I know it sounds like a fairy tale due to the society we were born in and this age... but if you were to go few hundred years back.. If you were not worshipping God.. you would still worship a stick stone or cow.. or in extreme cases believe that you yourself are God as some other people back then used to.
And the purpose of eternal life in heaven would be?

This is about religion and flat earth, it's not only about religion. Why create an earth as a test for people to earn their right to live forever in heaven? And what does all that have to do with the shape of the earth? What's the purpose?

The more you think of it, the less the existence of a creator makes sense. I'm in no way religious and I never will be, just for the record.

31
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 09, 2017, 08:46:16 AM »
Well our purpose in life is not to be deceived by those in power to deceive us and hide God from us. It is a battle of the unseen, a spiritual one... and the ultimate goal is for us to realise there is a God and once we do, to worship Him until death. And then be happy by passing this test... by overcoming our desires and this material world.
That makes no sense. If we're created only to worship our creator, our creator is a narcissistic prick. Which of the ~4200 dieties are we talking about here?

Yeah, I'll go with the version that actually makes sense, that there's no real purpose of us being here, and that it's merely a coincidence we came to existence.

32
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 08, 2017, 12:22:12 PM »
I'm not asking what's the purpose of God's existence would be (being worshipped). If earth is put here on purpose, and there is a creator, what is our purpose exactly?

33
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 07, 2017, 08:03:00 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Ok, I'll bite.

If the earth is the center of creation, what is the point of us being here exactly?

Good question. Physical existence could be some kind of filter you must pass through to refine your energies to be more in tune with the creator.

If you view the creator as a "source" or "singularity" that your soul or spirit, or whatever you want to call it, seeks to exists in harmony with- it would make sense to have to resolve any discord before you would be able to reconnect with it.

We know everything that exists is a frequency. We know that there is so much about the electromagnetic spectrum we don't know or understand. In my mind, it is more realistic to me that existence is layered into many fabrics, with multiple dimensions existing simultaneous as one. I don't think of God as someone in the clouds, or somewhere in outer space. It is more likely to me that if there are alien beings (ufos, angels, demons etc) they exist in a different spectrum, rather than on a separate, absurdly distant speck of dust. Would it take more energy to slip into a different frequency, or to traverse the entire universe?

For the record, I don't feel insignificant either way. If the earth is round, flat, the center of the universe, or just a speck in an impossibly vast universe. I still believe in a divine energy that animates us, and differentiates us from an identical conglomeration of inanimate molecules.

I think a more divine understanding is that we revolve around something greater than ourselves.  That centrality of God represents the light of life and we reflect it.   

I agree. But that isn't the mainstream thought process. That dictates that our existence is a mere coincidence, as statistically impossible as it would be, and there is no real explanation for the sudden appearance of life and the universe.
So if I understand you correctly, if there is a point with our existence, our existence only matter if we assume there is a God or otherwise believe in something divine?

Without saying life has no significance (we're communicating right now, you and I, that's significant), the thought that there's absolutely no reason we exist, but that we're merely the result of a series of chemical coincidences, and that in our gigantic expanding universe is the possibility that life emerged and is thriving in one form or another on other celestial bodies by the thousands, or millions, is far fetched?

Because if I don't believe in a God or anything divine, but submit to science and the discoveries we continuously make about our universe, that these results aren't a hoax, that the earth is in fact a globe, there's a high probability this is the case. To reiterate over a previous point, I hope we've made mistakes about what gravity is. The theory is not perfect, in the sense that we don't know what causes the attraction other than mass. A discovery in that area that perfectly explains what gravity is even though it requires that we change any explanation about gravity we have as of now.. Well, I hope it will happen.

It doesn't change the shape of the earth though. My question is merely philosophical.

34
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Conspiracy theories and Occam's Razor
« on: April 06, 2017, 10:15:04 PM »
Very in depth answer... hahaha.
"Occam's Razor asks us which explanation makes the least number of assumptions."
Literally everything you say about a flat earth is an assumption because there is no actual evidence...

Don't expect much from these people, they do after all think the earth is flat.

It's empirical that the earth is flat. It takes spacious ancient Greek reasoning and appeals to authority to justify a round one.
Show me empirical evidence of a flat earth then that round earth doesn't explain. Show me empirical evidence of a flat earth that is as accurate and verifiable as the round earth explanation would be.

35
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: April 06, 2017, 10:12:21 PM »
So you admit you don’t see what we’re saying (10th dan in missing the point), you won’t do the simple experiment that Gary and others have offered as you don’t know when the moon will be in the daytime sky, well the “children’s” moon is often in the sky,
 •  Look within a week or so of the date of full moon.
•  Before full moon, look for the daytime moon in the afternoon.
•  After full moon, look for the daytime moon in the morning
(waxing gibbous tonight 6th April so you are on, although being near the equinox the discrepancy won't be profound).

A full moon with the sun in the sky isn't supposed to ever happen in the Round Earth model. You want me to perform an experiment that cannot happen?

Incorrect. At 66.5 latitude you can see both simultaneously because the moon is not directly on the ecliptic.

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Why do I need to perform some kind of experiment to confirm someone else's argument? If you are making a claim that an experiment will confirm your argument, YOU need to do the experiment.

Because you only value first hand experience?

Where have I ever said that? Don't you see me quoting Rowbotham all the time?

If you have an experiment for us that will confirm something you believe to be in your favor, it is your responsibility to perform the experiment. Telling us to go here, wait this long, and do this and that to perform some experiment which you blindly assume will produce a result favorable to your argument doesn't fly. Your claim, your burden.
This is what science normally is about though. Someone makes a claim based on observation and write up a theory that supports the observation. Peers test it.

We're not making any claims. We're merely repeating what has been proven over and over. You claim its impossible. You claim that a model otherwise regarded as accurate is wrong. You claim the earth is flat. The burden of proof is really on you and what we're asking of you is really, really simple.

36
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 05, 2017, 08:45:04 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Ok, I'll bite.

If the earth is the center of creation, what is the point of us being here exactly?

37
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: April 05, 2017, 01:39:05 PM »
Remember that the next time you get a reply that actually answers your question. If you cannot take in the relation between distance and perspective as outlined in Nirmala's reply, it makes perfect sense why you still believe the earth is flat and resort to ignorance and ignoring actual, fact based answers that doesn't support your wishful thinking.

38
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: April 05, 2017, 07:31:41 AM »
And while you're at it, Tom, please respond to the 3 videos I linked you in the Shaq thread. I know you saw them, and I know you can't refute them. If you can't, just say it. Don't go silent.

39
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: April 05, 2017, 07:29:22 AM »
That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't the angles line up? They would line up in a small scale model of the sun and moon and observer, so why not a larger scale model with the sun 93 million miles away?
Fair enough, then prove that they would line up in a small scale model then. And remember that considering a standard issue office globus, the distance to the moon object is about 10 meters.

Nobody needs to "defend" the heliocentric model any further than the reply you actually got already. You disregard the reply because it doesn't conform to your wishful thinking. If you want to be taken serious, Tom, you need to start presenting some actual evidence. Just like us "round earthers", even the flat earth movement must be sick and tired of you making them look like blatant idiots by now.

40
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Round earth definitive PROOF
« on: April 02, 2017, 10:10:50 AM »
    a. It did not turn around in the air at any point in its trip to face back the way it came.
Fascinating. So, assuming a Round Earth, and assuming your assertion is true, the global flyer just kind of flew off the Earth and into outer space, never to be seen again.

I have a feeling, just a hunch, that this would contradict GBR's records.
The "flying into space" argument is a non-point though, since jet turbines doesn't work without oxygen and wings doesn't generate lift in thin atmosphere.

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