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Offline Rama Set

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Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« on: March 17, 2021, 07:00:48 PM »
I have noticed that Tom consistently edits his posts without making any changes.  This causes notifications to show there are unread posts when there aren't.  Is this against the rules?  It seems like abuse of this function should be.  I find it annoying to have to reread his posts to make see if I need to edit a response only to discover that nothing has changed.

If abuse of post editing is against the rules, let me know so I can decide if I want to bother reporting it.  If it isn't then I will just deal with it.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2021, 07:14:05 PM »
He did it 4 times this morning before eventually settling on

Quote
Trump already said that he agrees with either view. But Trump developed it under his administration, so you can smile and thank Trump when you lefties are getting your Trump vaccines.

Every other version was basically a variation on this. In one version he said something about “Brits”. Then he went with “Brit lefties” before settling on “lefties”.
I think this is the only version where he called it the “Trump vaccine”.

I guess he’s just trying to make the post as big a troll as possible although maybe thinking about it before responding and editing before you hit post would be better.

In brief, I agree that this is annoying and not just that it means there’s a moving target for you to reply to.

Probably not against any rules but it is a bugbear of mine too.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2021, 07:31:06 PM »
I needed to be inclusive to Rama Set and Roundy since not all the lefties live in Britain. I thought you guys loved it when people change things for you to become more inclusive?

Sounds like Rama Set is pretty triggered if he needs to ask if making corrections to posts is against the rules of the forum.  ::)

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2021, 07:34:23 PM »
I needed to be inclusive to Rama Set and Roundy since not all the lefties live in Britain. I thought you guys loved it when people change things for you to become more inclusive?

Sounds like Rama Set is pretty triggered if he needs to ask if making corrections to posts is against the rules of the forum.  ::)

I have no problem with posts that change.  It is when you edit posts without making any changes at all.  Like the topic says.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2021, 08:15:29 PM »
I needed to be inclusive to Rama Set and Roundy since not all the lefties live in Britain. I thought you guys loved it when people change things for you to become more inclusive?
I’d like it a bit more if you were able to get your trolling right first time.

It’s not the worst thing but sometimes I’m thinking of replying to you and you keep changing it so I’m sitting there thinking “has he finished yet?”.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2021, 08:53:05 PM »
This is interesting.

Are you saying / is it true that simply editing your post makes a thread appear on the unread / replied to listing?

If so, I think that should be disabled if possible. Only new posts should count towards such things.

Many times I will reread a thread and see an error (spelling / grammer) or, like in Tom's example, somewhere the diction or phrasing could use some adjustment.

Had I known/recognized this was bumping the threads to the "new" lists, I might not have made the minor changes at all.

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Offline stack

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2021, 09:34:25 PM »
Here's what I run into all the time:

- I'm writing a response to a Tom post, hit Preview
- I get the red message saying someone else has posted
- I open a new tab, navigate all the way over to the newest response in the thread to see if someone else posted something I should be aware of
- Then I see it's just Tom has edited his post so I look to see what the edit is
- 50% of the time, no change has been made

I don't get it. Why edit and re-save a post that you haven't changed?

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Offline xasop

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2021, 09:52:11 PM »
If so, I think that should be disabled if possible. Only new posts should count towards such things.

The thing is that if someone edits a post to add substantial content, then this behaviour is desirable — otherwise someone may not notice they've added stuff and just never read it.

But we could certainly look at tweaking this. Certainly, if no changes are made at all, it shouldn't mark the thread unread. Perhaps small changes (say, with fewer than 10 added/removed characters, or some other arbitrary threshold) should also be exempted.

What do people think?
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2021, 10:12:27 PM »
I tend to read my posts back and if I see a typo I'll go back and edit it.
And sometimes I'll add an afterthought.
But I tend to do this fairly quickly.
My slight irritation with y'man is that he spends half an hour editing the same post over and over, adding a word here, removing one there.
Is it really so hard to gather your thoughts and say the right thing first time? I never know when he's finished and I can reply.

Not the worst thing, but it's kinda annoying. I don't think you really need to do anything about it.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2021, 10:14:06 PM »
One reason this happens on the other site that I've noticed is someone will delete their original post and repost something either identical, or nearly identical, so as to avoid the "edit" stamp at the bottom of the post. I wasn't aware SMF also flagged threads unread if a post was edited, though - I was under the impression that it was because of the delete-then-post-again kind of behavior. In fact, I'm certain I've come across threads where posts have been edited and I didn't get flagged as unread. Maybe it's different when it is the most recent post that has been edited though?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2021, 10:39:30 PM »
If so, I think that should be disabled if possible. Only new posts should count towards such things.

The thing is that if someone edits a post to add substantial content, then this behaviour is desirable — otherwise someone may not notice they've added stuff and just never read it.

But we could certainly look at tweaking this. Certainly, if no changes are made at all, it shouldn't mark the thread unread. Perhaps small changes (say, with fewer than 10 added/removed characters, or some other arbitrary threshold) should also be exempted.

What do people think?

That sounds fine to me.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 10:55:43 PM by Rama Set »
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Online Iceman

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2021, 11:27:45 PM »
If so, I think that should be disabled if possible. Only new posts should count towards such things.

The thing is that if someone edits a post to add substantial content, then this behaviour is desirable — otherwise someone may not notice they've added stuff and just never read it.

But we could certainly look at tweaking this. Certainly, if no changes are made at all, it shouldn't mark the thread unread. Perhaps small changes (say, with fewer than 10 added/removed characters, or some other arbitrary threshold) should also be exempted.

What do people think?

This seems to be the right idea... where that threshold should be set is the problem. 10 or 20 characters seems like a decent start.... that would keep the thread from being flagged after I go in and fox the words my phone autocorrects in my posts...

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2021, 11:36:12 PM »
Personally, I agree that Tom should stop deleting and remaking posts instead of simply editing them like a good Catholic - which I believe is the cause of current discontent, as Clyde Frog described. It's not currently against the rules, but given how often it happens (and how much of an impact it has on both the forum db and the users' experience), I'd be in favour of making it a rule in the future, probably something along the lines of "abusing forum functionality".

He's quite clearly doing it because he doesn't want his posts to contain the "edited" tag. My suggestion is that he should get over himself.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 11:38:25 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2021, 11:37:20 PM »
Personally, I agree that Tom should stop deleting and remaking posts instead of simply editing them like a good Catholic. It's not currently against the rules, but given how often it happens (and how much of an impact it has on both the forum db and the users' experience), I'd be in favour of making it arule.

Whichever rule covers unnecessary thread bumping/necro info could just be expanded to cover gratuitous editing maybe?
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Offline xasop

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2021, 11:48:52 PM »
In fact, I'm certain I've come across threads where posts have been edited and I didn't get flagged as unread.

I was pretty sure of the opposite, but maybe I am confusing it with the delete-and-repost switcheroo.
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Offline JSS

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2021, 01:31:00 PM »
In fact, I'm certain I've come across threads where posts have been edited and I didn't get flagged as unread.

I was pretty sure of the opposite, but maybe I am confusing it with the delete-and-repost switcheroo.

This confused me as well, until Pete explained that if you edit a post within a short time of the initial submission it won't show it's been edited or send a new notification.

Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2021, 02:37:20 PM »
Personally, I agree that Tom should stop deleting and remaking posts instead of simply editing them like a good Catholic - which I believe is the cause of current discontent, as Clyde Frog described.
Oh is that what he's doing?
That isn't my grumble, although I can see how that messes up your stats which would be annoying for you.
I just think it's bad netiquette to spend half an hour changing your post over and over, tweaking a word here and there until you think it's the perfect "zinger".
I'm not sure if it's worthy of making a rule about tbh
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2021, 02:55:32 PM »
Meh, tweaking a word here and there is not a huge problem IMO, perhaps even adding some paragraphs is OK, so long as the core message doesn't dramatically change. Or, at the very least, I think it's a separate problem from what's being discussed here.

I believe SMF's stats respond accurately to posts being deleted, so it shouldn't inflate them. There might be a slight DB size implication since deleted posts go into Quarantine, but that's also not likely to cause a major issue. The only thing I see as potentially frustrating is - yeah, if you make a new post, it's a new post. It'll show as such to everyone. If the edit function is triggering notifications (it really shouldn't, and I don't think it is), fixing it would still do nothing about Tom's not-quite-editing behaviour.

So, my proposed 2 step plan would be:
  • For people to start using the edit function if they want to edit posts.
  • For us to observe if the issue still persists. (I suspect the answer will be "no", but I haven't looked at the code, this is just a guess.)
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2021, 03:26:54 PM »
You definitely get a notification when someone changes a post while you are responding.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Consistently editing posts without changing anything
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2021, 06:22:39 PM »
You definitely get a notification when someone changes a post while you are responding.
That should be impossible. How did you determine that it's someone changing a post rather than deleting and recreating? We're gonna need to find a way to reproduce this before we can fix it.
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