*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2218
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2021, 12:37:03 AM »
Lol, I had a few threads about this, but in short, it tilts towards the sun so it's centered above the equator.  It then wobbles slowly back and forth every year to give you change of seasons.  It also spins once every 24 hours but nobody likes that idea, lol.

Ok, well good luck with all that. From what I've seen across the wider than just here FE community, putting the earth in any sort of motion is lunacy. And if you even mentioned to those folks that it "rotates", my goodness, they would come after you with pitchforks and torches. Hyperbole, of course, but yeah, they don't take too kindly to an in motion earth of any kind.

What causes it to wobble and spin? How often does it wobble?

And you have a problem with your "idea". If it wobbles (tilts) periodically and spins every 24 hours, everyone on the planet would experience all four season everyday. That would be something, wouldn't it? Snow in the wee hours, flowers bloom in the morning, Summer heat in the afternoon, leaves tuning brown in the evening.

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2021, 01:27:52 AM »
The Earth is like a Frisbee flying through space.  It tilts, spins, and wobbles.  Think of a gyroscope and its gentle rotation.  If it rotates once a year then you seasons remain intact.
Is the Earth flat and Sky round?  Or is the Earth round and Sky flat?

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2218
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2021, 01:45:02 AM »
The Earth is like a Frisbee flying through space.  It tilts, spins, and wobbles.  Think of a gyroscope and its gentle rotation.  If it rotates once a year then you seasons remain intact.

I got the concept, but you didn't answer any of the questions. Chief among them, how do you not have all 4 seasons everyday everywhere on earth? Rotation causes your day/night cycle, your tilt/wobble, whatever it is, causes your seasons. Your 24 hour rotation would rotate all parts of the earth closer and further from the sun giving everyone 4 seasons in 24 hours. Get it?

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 1606
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2021, 02:33:22 AM »
Ron your saying that you had to switch Geo Stationary satellites because you moved to far away from some and was lost beyond the horizon?  On a Flat Map, it follows the same fundamentals as a sunset I think.  The farther you move away from it, it appears to sink and dip beyond the horizon...  Signal loss might be a function of distance and atmospheric interference.
The geosynchronous satellites I'm referring to are all located above the earth's equator.  Find a round table somewhere and a small marble.  Now imagine that you are a small ant on top of the table.  Place the marble well above a pseudo equator that you would draw on the flat table, now why couldn't an ant see that marble from anywhere on that table?  Image now that there are now 4 separate satellites equally separated and well above that equator line on the table.  It's easy to see that on a flat table any ant could see all four satellites.  The example of the Sun being visible only half the time just isn't viable.  What if there were 4 suns?  Wouldn't you see more than 1 Sun all of the time?  Besides the Sun argument is based upon the EA equation that is incomplete so has to be disregarded.  Now if you take those same marbles and place them above a globe you can easily see why the satellites would have to be changed as often as they do.  All the antenna elevation angles also match a globe earth.  It's just that simple.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 02:45:25 AM by RonJ »
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

Peter Winfield

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2021, 06:59:16 AM »
The Earth is like a Frisbee flying through space.  It tilts, spins, and wobbles.  Think of a gyroscope and its gentle rotation.  If it rotates once a year then you seasons remain intact.

It's an interesting idea, but the question remains: Where is the working model of (this version of) the flat Earth?

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2021, 11:56:52 AM »
[quote Your 24 hour rotation would rotate all parts of the earth closer and further from the sun giving everyone 4 seasons in 24 hours. Get it?
[/quote]

 Stack I see your point, but it's not really true.  You can spin a Frisbee on your finger once every 24 hours and also have it slowly rotate over 1 year without it shaking - If your Chuck Norris.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 11:58:51 AM by MetaTron »
Is the Earth flat and Sky round?  Or is the Earth round and Sky flat?

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2021, 12:04:44 PM »
[quote author=RonJ Now if you take those same marbles and place them above a globe you can easily see why the satellites would have to be changed as often as they do.  All the antenna elevation angles also match a globe earth.  It's just that simple.
[/quote]

Ron its still to far to use only 1 geosynchronous satellite if your moving on earth.  You might be able to use 3 or 4 going around the earth like your suggesting.
Is the Earth flat and Sky round?  Or is the Earth round and Sky flat?

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2021, 12:07:34 PM »
The Earth is like a Frisbee flying through space.  It tilts, spins, and wobbles.  Think of a gyroscope and its gentle rotation.  If it rotates once a year then you seasons remain intact.

It's an interesting idea, but the question remains: Where is the working model of (this version of) the flat Earth?

Its still a relatively new Theory.  It started about 4 years ago on this Forum. 
Is the Earth flat and Sky round?  Or is the Earth round and Sky flat?

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2218
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2021, 01:58:36 PM »
Quote
Your 24 hour rotation would rotate all parts of the earth closer and further from the sun giving everyone 4 seasons in 24 hours. Get it?

Stack I see your point, but it's not really true.  You can spin a Frisbee on your finger once every 24 hours and also have it slowly rotate over 1 year without it shaking - If your Chuck Norris.

Maybe I'm not as clear as I thought on your concept. The earth spins every 24 hours like a frisbee on your finger. What's the slow rotation over a year? How does a frisbee both spin and rotate if they are not the same thing? I don't get what you're saying.

You mentioned the theory is new, from 4 years ago here. Where here? Can you point to some 4 year old posts about it?

*

Offline RonJ

  • *
  • Posts: 1606
  • ACTA NON VERBA
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2021, 03:28:37 PM »
[quote author=RonJ Now if you take those same marbles and place them above a globe you can easily see why the satellites would have to be changed as often as they do.  All the antenna elevation angles also match a globe earth.  It's just that simple.

Ron its still to far to use only 1 geosynchronous satellite if your moving on earth.  You might be able to use 3 or 4 going around the earth like your suggesting.
Not quite!  Think about it this way.  On the earth you only have daylight and darkness.  On a flat earth all this is generated by 1 rotating Sun. If you had a second Sun to light up the areas not covered by the first Sun you could have continuous daylight.  The way microwaves work is if you can see it you can communicate with it.  On a flat earth you could just have 2 satellites and cover the whole earth.  In the real world that doesn't really work, you need 4, minimum.  That's because the earth isn't flat.  On a globe, a satellite can go out of sight because it's being hidden by the earth's curvature. It's just that simple.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 04:06:00 PM by RonJ »
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2021, 03:37:50 PM »
If chuck balances a pizza on his finger, and then has it rotate once every 24 hours, that's really slow.  It looks stationary.

Now, if he's up to it, he can also twist his wrist ever so slightly and try to move the pizza in a circular way so it wobbles (not spins). 

I'm not sure how to answer your second question.  I joined three years ago and started to contribute and build some ideas.
Is the Earth flat and Sky round?  Or is the Earth round and Sky flat?

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 2218
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2021, 04:14:01 PM »
If chuck balances a pizza on his finger, and then has it rotate once every 24 hours, that's really slow.  It looks stationary.

Sure.

Now, if he's up to it, he can also twist his wrist ever so slightly and try to move the pizza in a circular way so it wobbles (not spins). 

Ok, I guess. I still don't know exactly what you mean. Do you have a diagram? Your words aren't making sense. Does the "Chuck Norris wobble" make the seasons?

And I still don't see how you can explain not having all four season in a 24 hour period. Can you succinctly explain that?

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13395
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2021, 05:22:12 PM »
This example is from religious belief rather than Science. In Science, consensus is everything.
If your belief system (not actually representative of science, but perhaps that's where the capital "S" comes into play?) relies more on consensus than it does on verifiability, then our differences are even more severe than I originally suspected. I'm simply not going to be able to help you with that. You're pursuing something else than we are.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2021, 05:46:45 PM »
This example is from religious belief rather than Science. In Science, consensus is everything.
If your belief system (not actually representative of science, but perhaps that's where the capital "S" comes into play?) relies more on consensus than it does on verifiability, then our differences are even more severe than I originally suspected. I'm simply not going to be able to help you with that. You're pursuing something else than we are.
Surely consensus follows on from verifiability.
That's what publishing results and peer review is about
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Peter Winfield

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2021, 05:49:32 PM »
Surely consensus follows on from verifiability.
That's what publishing results and peer review is about

Thank you, just want I was about to write (but in a lot more words!).

*

Offline Iceman

  • *
  • Posts: 1194
  • where there's smoke there's wires
    • View Profile
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2021, 05:51:58 PM »
Consensus is, in many ways, a detriment to progress. People get overly satisfied with the status quo and stop asking questions. Status quo is built on the best available data and information at a given time, but there is and always will be room to improve.

All our most famous scientists are the ones who broke through the established consensus.

Peter Winfield

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2021, 05:57:36 PM »
You're pursuing something else than we are.

I am pursuing accurate, detailed mathematical models of a flat Earth that can be verified by observation. The starting point has to be a working map of the Earth, because geographic and celestial observations depend on location, and without a map you can't specify a location.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13395
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2021, 06:08:41 PM »
Surely consensus follows on from verifiability.
Yes, in an idealised world it might. Sadly, we live on Earth, regardless of its shape.

The starting point has to be a working map of the Earth
Even if I pretend not to see your conceit: we simply disagree. There is honestly not much more to say about that.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Peter Winfield

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2021, 06:12:30 PM »
Consensus is, in many ways, a detriment to progress. People get overly satisfied with the status quo and stop asking questions. Status quo is built on the best available data and information at a given time, but there is and always will be room to improve.

All our most famous scientists are the ones who broke through the established consensus.

This probably belongs in the "philosophy" section but, yes, there is a tension between building on consensus and challenging it. The "Shoulders of Giants" vs. "breaking the mould".

But I would argue that many, if not most, famous scientists brought consensus rather than challenging it. They resolve debates rather than challenging dogma.

Peter Winfield

Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2021, 06:19:21 PM »
The starting point has to be a working map of the Earth
Even if I pretend not to see your conceit: we simply disagree. There is honestly not much more to say about that.

I explained my reasoning for thinking that a map is necessary, so perhaps you could address that? That is, after all, the topic of this thread.