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Messages - existoid

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: May 20, 2021, 05:08:24 PM »
As a geopolitical and international security junky there's just too much to say about the Israel/Palestine situation and the conversation would be even more intractable than an FET vs RET one  :P  ;D

But I will chime in to say that the key problem facing the Gazans (and to an extent those in the West Bank as well, but more so in Gaza) is Hamas and Islamic Jihad. That is to say, Israel is not the source of the key problems facing Gaza and the average Gaza citizen. 15 years ago Hamas was elected in Gaza, and since then zero elections have been held, and Hamas has spent those 15 years making life worse and worse and worse for the average Gazan with intensely evil human rights violations against their own people.

Israel has had no ongoing military or administrative presence in Gaza for decades now, and yet the huge amount of money that has poured in to Gaza from private donors and other states (Iran, but also lots of Arab states) has not gone to making the lives of Palestinians better, because Hamas clearly doesn't care about their own people.

Of course, Hamas, being authoritarian thugs and an actual terrorist organization in control of a polity cannot be voted out with no elections (and if there were any, the idea that Gazans would have a fair election without Hamas personnel overseeing their non-secret ballot votes is laughable, meaning Hamas would retain power anyway).

In case my ultimate point isn't clear: the plight of Palestine and Palestinians right now in 2021 can only fairly be laid at the feet of Hamas, and not Israel.

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 05:22:19 PM »
I'm not really sure what more there is to discuss on this. The PA Lawmakers were concerned about errors in government vote counting systems and in the later discussion with the election people they admitted to errors in government vote counting systems. The lawmakers probably didn't publicly bring that particular SURE discrepancy up again because the errors were already admitted to.

See these two quotes:

Quote
PA Lawmakers: Numbers Don't Add Up
Certification of Presidential Results Premature and in Error

Quote
Anderson added that often a voter will fill out a provisional ballot, but also mistakenly sign the poll book. So until the error is caught, there will be one less ballot than shown in the poll book totals.

He also said that, during the tedious two week process of manually scanning polls books and envelopes for SURE statistics, some ballots don’t scan, and a few manual errors are inadvertently made by overworked election workers.

Anderson assured Diamond that those errors will be caught and fixed in the SURE system in time for the next election.

Diamond ended by expressing his satisfaction. 'You’ve answered a lot of my questions, and I really do appreciate it.

It sure sounds like they mumbled some stuff about poll books and overworked election workers and basically finished with "you were right, there are errors, but we promise to do better next time" to me.


Let me try from a different angle, because we're clearly talking past each other.

Here's the order of events, and why it doesn't add up the way you are describing things:

1. On Dec. 28th, 2021 Rep. Ryan and Diamond released a statement (that you've posted several times) claiming that a discrepancy between SURE numbers and final county numbers implies voter fraud.

2. Immediately - on the same day - Dec. 28th, 2021 the Pennsylvania Department of State released a statement in response (which I excerpted many comments ago, and you never replied to after I kept bringing it up). This response said in relevant part, "To put it simply, this so-called analysis [of Rep. Ryan and Diamond] was based on incomplete data."

3. A little over a week later - on Jan. 7, 2021 - the Lebanon County Director of Elections and Voter Registration, Michael Anderson, spoken with Rep. Diamond via Zoom and explained why Rep. Diamond and Ryan are wrong.

4. Since that time - Jan. 7th - there has been silence from both Rep. Ryan and Diamond. If they were right all along, contrary to the PA Department of State's rebuttal and the Director of Elections and Voter Registration's explanation on Jan. 7th, why have they not responded to those rebuttals and pursued legal options in the courts? After all, if there really were voter fraud, and they weren't simply mistaken (as now appears to be the case), they should dutifully get to the "real" bottom of things, right? 

The fact that there has been no word on this topic from Rep. Ryan and Diamond since Jan. 7th strongly implies they have accepted they were mistaken in their initial analysis and statement, and are moving on with other things. 

All you have done is try to argue with the rebuttals to Ryan and Diamond, and to do so quite unsuccessfully.

Where's your evidence, Tom?   

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 04:06:55 AM »
your sophistry is unpersuasive.

Do you have evidence that Rep. Ryan or Diamond contended with accurate and final SURE data? Or are you merely relying on their claims (making all your arguments, which have focused on the credibility of other sources, both ironic and specious).

Do you have any response from Rep. Ryan or Diamond to the official PA DoS statement made in response to their statement?

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 03:39:31 AM »
Tom,

Again, you either didn't read the link or understand it.

The article clearly explains what SURE is and does, and explains that Rep. Ryan and Rep. Diamond, who wrote this document didn’t understand that SURE doesnt count votes, but is merely a database for past elections, and only needs to be updated before the next one.

They didnt know that.

You didnt know that.

I didnt know that until I read the PA DoS website and this article, but now I do. Maybe you should actually read them instead of hanging on to the initial info you had. There’s now more info which you are literally ignoring.

The quote you are talking about says that it contains the numbers of people who voted in the election:

"In a telephone interview with LebTown on Jan. 4, Anderson pointed out that SURE is not designed to determine election winners, and never has been. Instead, it is simply a database of registered voters, and a historical record of who has voted in past elections."

I'm not sure what you're talking about. It has the numbers of the people who voted in an election, not only the number of registered voters.

Are you arguing that they mistook 2016 voting data for 2020 data?


No, I’m not arguing that and not sure how you arrived at that idea.

Maybe just read the entire article more carefully?

More importantly, the PA DoS officially responded to the claim by Reps Diamond and Ryan.  They never responded to that, bc instead they met with Mr. Anderson who apparently resolved Rep. Diamond’s concerns...by explaining that SURE data has a different purpose entirely, is derived at a different time, and wouldnt show identical numbers anyway. Mystery solved...

If Rep. Ryan, who didnt attend the meeting with Mr. Anderson isnt satisfied by the official PA DoS statement, please show where he continues to make these claims....

EDIT:
Cuz it seems you’re fighting a battle that not even Rep. Ryan (and certainly not rep. Diamond) are still fighting.  Cuz, well, they were mistaken. (I do believe they were mistaken in good faith).

5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 03:27:46 AM »
Again, here’s all the info anyone’s provided in this thread on the topic. 

1. An image from a tweet by Rep. Ryan which shows a supposed discrepancy b/w county numbers and SURE numbers.
2. The official PA DoS website which shows the final county votes.
3. A statement from the PA DoS claiming that Rep. Ryan is wrong.


There has been No reply from Rep. Ryan to dispute the PA DoS statement.

You keep reposting the INITIAL statement that informed the tweet, but are not providing anything that responds to the official PA DoS response to that tweet...

6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 03:24:10 AM »

I don't believe that anyone claimed that the SURE system determines winners and losers. There is an anomaly there between two different reporting systems.

...except, that claiming the discrepancy is an anomaly is a category error. 

That's the substantive point of the entire article I linked.

You clearly didn't even read the article (or perhaps just didn't understand it).

You and the article are basically just claiming that there is a possible explanation. That's nice. But there are possible explanations for nearly anything you can imagine, so that doesn't mean much.

No, that’s not at all what the article or I am saying. 

Calling the discrepancy an anomaly is an example of a category error. There cannot be an anomaly between two things which are measuring different types of data - one is county votes, the other registrations of past elections. Not the same.

Still waiting for the rebuttal to the official PA DoS statement refuting the initial tweet....

Point it out for us. Where do you see a label with anything related to "registrations of past elections"



Tom,

Again, you either didn't read the link or understand it.

The article clearly explains what SURE is and does, and explains that Rep. Ryan and Rep. Diamond, who wrote this document didn’t understand that SURE doesnt count votes, but is merely a database for past elections, and only needs to be updated before the next one.

They didnt know that.

You didnt know that.

I didnt know that until I read the PA DoS website and this article, but now I do. Maybe you should actually read them instead of hanging on to the initial info you had. There’s now more info which you are literally ignoring.


7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 03:17:49 AM »

I don't believe that anyone claimed that the SURE system determines winners and losers. There is an anomaly there between two different reporting systems.

...except, that claiming the discrepancy is an anomaly is a category error. 

That's the substantive point of the entire article I linked.

You clearly didn't even read the article (or perhaps just didn't understand it).

You and the article are basically just claiming that there is a possible explanation. That's nice. But there are possible explanations for nearly anything you can imagine, so that doesn't mean much.

No, that’s not at all what the article or I am saying. 

Calling the discrepancy an anomaly is an example of a category error. There cannot be an anomaly between two things which are measuring different types of data - one is county votes, the other registrations of past elections. Not the same.

Still waiting for the rebuttal to the official PA DoS statement refuting the initial tweet....


8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 02:49:11 AM »

I don't believe that anyone claimed that the SURE system determines winners and losers. There is an anomaly there between two different reporting systems.

...except, that claiming the discrepancy is an anomaly is a category error. 

That's the substantive point of the entire article I linked.

You clearly didn't even read the article (or perhaps just didn't understand it). 






9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: May 19, 2021, 02:27:19 AM »
Despite my pedantry in the "Trump" thread regarding voter fraud stuff, I really am not a fan of Biden in the least.

I disliked Trump, and I dislike Biden (for mostly different reasons, but some similar ones).

It's really lame, however, how fawningly gross the media is to him. Had the below interaction been uttered by Trump, it would have created a 48 hour period in which virtually every mainstream news outlet would vociferously condemn him:



Is it really that funny for Biden to pretend he'll run over a female reporter because she asks a question about a major geopolitical event in a historically important region of the world (to the US) ?






10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 02:03:07 AM »
Awesome.

I found this which I think should put the nail in the coffin about the PA discrepancy.  Unless it was written by a deep state operative  :o

Relevant quotes:
"Anderson pointed out that SURE is not designed to determine election winners, and never has been. Instead, it is simply a database of registered voters, and a historical record of who has voted in past elections. Two different processes, two different purposes. This, according to Anderson, is what Ryan and Diamond didn’t understand."

"Whether the SURE totals are right or wrong, they have no direct connection to exactly how many ballots have been cast in a given election, or whether those ballots have been counted accurately."

And perhaps most tellingly:
"At the end of the meeting, [Rep] Diamond, who attended via Zoom, expressed satisfaction with Anderson’s explanations."


Sounds like the dude whose tweet you posted is cool with the final numbers after all...

https://lebtown.com/2021/01/08/county-elections-chief-rebuts-alarming-discrepancy-alleged-by-reps-ryan-and-diamond-diamond-apparently-satisfied/


11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 01:51:07 AM »
Tom,

That's merely the statement that was replied to by the PA DoS.  It's not new information supplied to this conversation.

Let's try to get to some new information, perhaps, by looking at the relevant information we do have:

1. An image from a tweet by Rep. Ryan which shows a supposed discrepancy b/w county numbers and SURE numbers.
2. The official PA DoS website which shows the final county votes.
3. A statement from the PA DoS claiming that Rep. Ryan is wrong.
4. No reply from Rep. Ryan to dispute the PA DoS

At least not one that I could find.  Perhaps you can find something that shows Rep. Ryan was right all along, instead of just making up numbers, perhaps?

I can, however, an article claiming that Rep. Ryan refused to respond when contacted:
https://www.law.com/thelegalintelligencer/2021/01/01/gop-reps-say-analysis-shows-voting-discrepancies-but-report-quickly-challenged/?slreturn=20210418214824



12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 01:35:33 AM »
What a terrible article for you. First you claim that the numbers were FALSE with the Twitter reference that you supported, and now your arguments shifts to claiming that the numbers posted by the lawmakers were CORRECT.

From your article:

Quote
The claim then spread to several right-wing websites and social media influencers, including Trump, whose tweet claiming Pennsylvania had 205,000 more votes than voters was retweeted 117,000 times.

However, these claims rely on incomplete data, according to Wanda Murren, communications director for the Pennsylvania Department of State, who called the lawmakers’ release “obvious misinformation.”

So this article admits that numbers are correct but calls it "incomplete," as if it takes more than two months to upload their data.

The article does not make any effort to prove or substantiate that it was incomplete. It only calls it incomplete. This is an excuse. You found an excuse.

Now that it is May we can wait for you to prove that the numbers actually were incomplete to support this increasingly evolving line of excuses from you.

You didn't read that article very carefully, apparently. 

Here's a quote further down:

"Those claims are easily debunked. In Pennsylvania, for example, there were nearly 7 million votes cast. The total number of registered voters in 2020 was just over 9 million."

Seems like Rep. Ryan was just flat out wrong...

Just look here for the numbers:
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/OtherServicesEvents/VotingElectionStatistics/Pages/VotingElectionStatistics.aspx





13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 01:29:03 AM »
You have not presented a legitimate source or authority. You are presenting a Twitter comment by "CowboyRocksteady" that "you can look it up" and "this is false".  Wow. A Twitter comment. Stunning debunk there. ::)

This is how dishonest you are. A link to the PA Department of State is ignored and instead you try and disparage the Twitter handle. It’s pathetic.

You guys are referencing a Twitter comment and are jumping up and down assuring us that the person on Twitter accurately analyzed and understood what he was posting.

Your source is god awful, per usual.

But did you even look at the PA link and compare it to the original claim?

The PA Reps were claiming that the county data differs from the SURE system data, and the page presented doesn't specify whether it is presenting county data or "SURE" data anywhere on that page, let alone compares them for us. So we see that not only are you presenting a terrible source, you are providing terrible data as well.

Are you sure you know what "SURE" data is, exactly?  You are decrying a source that is effectively the same source - because you think the tweet from Rep. Ryan was meaningful.  SURE data is overseen by PA's Bureau of Election Security and Technology which is, dum da da dum!!!  Under the authority of the PA Department of State

Just the teensiest amount of Google fu shows this news article:
https://wjactv.com/news/local/pa-republican-lawmakers-analysis-finds-presidential-election-numbers-dont-add-up

which includes this response from the PA DoS to Rep. Ryan:

"In today’s release Rep. Ryan and others rehash, with the same lack of evidence and the same absence of supporting documentation, repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories regarding the November 3 election. State and federal judges have sifted through hundreds of pages of unsubstantiated and false allegations and found no evidence of fraud or illegal voting.

"Now, the legislators have given us another perfect example of the dangers of uninformed, lay analysis combined with a basic lack of election administration knowledge.

"For instance, it is quite common to have significant "undervotes" for down-ballot races in a presidential election, particularly when there isn't a U.S. Senate race on the ballot. In 2000, Sen. Santorum received 200,000 more votes than President Bush, but the US Senate race still had more than 100,000 fewer votes than the presidential race.

"We are unclear as to what data the legislators used for this most recent “analysis.” But the only way to determine the number of voters who voted in November from the SURE system is through the vote histories. At this time, there are still a few counties that have not completed uploading their vote histories to the SURE system. These counties, which include Philadelphia, Allegheny, Butler and Cambria, would account for a significant number of voters. The numbers certified by the counties, not the uploading of voter histories into the SURE system, determines the ultimate certification of an election by the secretary.

"This obvious misinformation put forth by Rep. Ryan and others is the hallmark of so many of the claims made about this year’s presidential election. When exposed to even the simplest examination, courts at every level have found these and similar conspiratorial claims to be wholly without basis.

"To put it simply, this so-called analysis was based on incomplete data."  [emphasis added]






14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 19, 2021, 12:31:02 AM »

Pennsylvania

PA State Reps found numbers that don't add up.

BREAKING: Pennsylvania Certified Results for President Are Found in Error – The Error Is Twice the Size of the Difference Between Candidates

"Republican State Representative Russ Diamond uncovered and reported today that the results for President are way off in Pennsylvania.  More ballots were cast than people voted by more than 200,000 votes."


Personally, I think in a country of well over 300 million, with so much at stake the idea that there wasn't fraud is ridiculous. However, the claim that the amount of fraud that occurred was sufficient (on one side) to have been the reason Biden won is what we do not have evidence for.

Randomly I wanted to look at the last claim first, and went to that tweet from Dec. 28th.  Fifth reply down says this:

CowboyRocksteady
Dec 28, 2020
Replying to
@russdiamond
You can look up the PA SURE numbers online. These numbers presented here are false.


And the very next tweet has this link showing that the numbers are wrong:
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/BEST/Pages/BEST-Election-Stats.aspx

So...fact checked same day as the tweet all the way back in Dec. 28 by the fifth public reply!

Someone else can look at the other claims.  Maybe they're all legit.

15
I don't doubt everything you write here is accurate.

But to be fair, warfare and violent conflict is endemic to the human condition and virtually all societies, with only a few remarkable exceptions.

In other words, if the society and religion founded by Mohammed were without "fighting" then that would be remarkable indeed.

 

16
I have a math/physics degree, and my research is on mathematical modelling.

Ask me anything.

Read this:
https://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Acceleration

Can you help tfes.org by mathematically modeling this phenomena, particularly with the intent to discover what the "Bishop's Constant" might be?

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: May 13, 2021, 05:53:29 PM »
And if they are capable of living as I am currently (even better, in most instances), then yeah, they are not going to work.

I think I have the numbers right:

The max amount you can get is $450 per week of unemployment for usually 26 weeks (Some states are lower, like Missouri is 13 weeks). And that’s the max amount based upon your previous years income. And the max amount varies by State. For instance, California max is $450, Arizona’s is $240, Kentucky’s is $552. So I’m using the rough average max for this, $450.

That’s a total of $11,700.00 ($450 X 26 weeks, 1/2 a year)

Covid has extended the 26 weeks to 39 weeks and added a $300 additional benefit for up to 11 weeks.

So the max would be $450 + 300 for 11 weeks + $450 for 28 weeks for a total of: $8250 + $12600 = $20,850.00

Are you saying you make less than $20k for 3/4 of a year and the unemployed with these benefits are making more than you?

Source on those numbers?

18
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« on: May 12, 2021, 05:50:07 PM »

If we leave the distance that light travels on the December solstice constant and try to determine what time sunrise would be on the June solstice we get position 'B'. 

Can you elaborate/show your work on this?  Not disagreeing, I just don't comprehend it.

19
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why?
« on: May 12, 2021, 03:43:31 PM »
To continue to control the public and keep the public from realizing that there is a creator.

You can believe in a creator regardless of the shape of the Earth.
None of the religious people that I know believe that the Earth is flat.

For example, I'm very religious and yet accept RET as true...

20
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why?
« on: May 11, 2021, 11:45:42 PM »
the notion of American dominance of space is ridiculous when we aren't dominating space by one bit. 

Well, it's a little more complicated than that.  The mere presence of Chinese and Russian space stations is no more proof that the US does not dominate space than the existence of Chinese and Russian navies disproves US dominance of the world's oceans. But the US does dominate the worlds' oceans in a very real sense. Likewise, most IR security analysts accept that the US dominates space - though that could very well be temporary.

Anyway, back to RET vs FET...

I do agree that there's a logical conundrum in the Wiki insofar as exerting military dominance of space is kind of meaningless if there is no space to dominate...what's the point of NASA again, then?

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