[devils advocate]

Hi all

I was wondering if any scrutiny of the FE experiments had been done on here? My science is not up to it but I would love to hear the thoughts of you more scientifically equipped.

Specifically the Bishop experiment https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence#The_Bishop_Experiment

[TomInAustin]

Hi all

I was wondering if any scrutiny of the FE experiments had been done on here? My science is not up to it but I would love to hear the thoughts of you more scientifically equipped.

Specifically the Bishop experiment https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence#The_Bishop_Experiment

Considering there is not a single picture to back it up... no, it's not valid.

[Curious Squirrel]

Hi all

I was wondering if any scrutiny of the FE experiments had been done on here? My science is not up to it but I would love to hear the thoughts of you more scientifically equipped.

Specifically the Bishop experiment https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence#The_Bishop_Experiment

Considering there is not a single picture to back it up... no, it's not valid.

Actually there's a handful of images around for it in one of the old threads. I recall reading it, don't remember the thread though unfortunately. I don't recall any consensus being reached as there was much argument/disagreement over what his height actually was compared to what he claimed it was.

[Rounder]

Scientific validity requires repeatability.  Despite repeated requests, Tom has never identified the specific beach from which he conducted the observations, so we cannot repeat it.

[UzZIBiKeR]

You have to realize what the great circle route is in the first place. Please look this up before posting something like this. The shortest route on a globe is a straight line if you can grasp this common concept. To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Quantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12 hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.
It's funny you can't post maps of the earth here so I'll give you the web address;


https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/

This continuous claim without scientific backing gets old really fast. Why do you persist in this craziness. Don't put up YouTube videos that I can shoot holes through in the first 10 seconds. Don't give me any off the wall comments from someone who doesn't know what he/she is talking about. I was a reactor operator on a nuclear submarine in the United States Navy defending people like you who give no thought to those who would have died if you're supposed truth had been accurate. We would not have the air force, navy, marines, army or coast guard if what you believed was true because we could never sail around the world to get  to the trouble spots that need us. Besides common sense what are you folks laking. Education or friends or both. I feel sorry for all of you. If you're here because you think it's just a joke, remember there are people who believe this and need someone with an education to dissuade these poor soles. If Shak believes the earth is flat he has just had the biggest joke pulled on him. I don't care what percent he shot. He is no better than those who perpetuate this lie.

[devils advocate]

You have to realize what the great circle route is in the first place. Please look this up before posting something like this. The shortest route on a globe is a straight line if you can grasp this common concept. To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Quantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12 hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.
It's funny you can't post maps of the earth here so I'll give you the web address;


https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/

This continuous claim without scientific backing gets old really fast. Why do you persist in this craziness. Don't put up YouTube videos that I can shoot holes through in the first 10 seconds. Don't give me any off the wall comments from someone who doesn't know what he/she is talking about. I was a reactor operator on a nuclear submarine in the United States Navy defending people like you who give no thought to those who would have died if you're supposed truth had been accurate. We would not have the air force, navy, marines, army or coast guard if what you believed was true because we could never sail around the world to get  to the trouble spots that need us. Besides common sense what are you folks laking. Education or friends or both. I feel sorry for all of you. If you're here because you think it's just a joke, remember there are people who believe this and need someone with an education to dissuade these poor soles. If Shak believes the earth is flat he has just had the biggest joke pulled on him. I don't care what percent he shot. He is no better than those who perpetuate this lie.

UzZIBIKeR:

What the hell are you jabbering on about??? I asked a question because I don't know the answer so how would I know to look up the great circle route?? Thats the point of Forums and Questions.....I could draw you a diagram if you would lend me your crayons.

And as for "why do you persist in this craziness"? What craziness am I persisting in?

I get that you were the big man in the Navy but you did nothing to protect me, I'm not American, and in my country the Army are where the tough guys work not the navy-See the video for the song "In the Navy" and you'll get the idea....

You tube vids-I have never posted any.

By the way, your "proof" of flight times etc would get shot down the FE on here as they don't believe in the distances you quoted so I suggest it is you big man who needs to research before posting......(Note my use of the word "they".......)

Now get back to on your Sub and sink.........

[TomInAustin]

Hi all

I was wondering if any scrutiny of the FE experiments had been done on here? My science is not up to it but I would love to hear the thoughts of you more scientifically equipped.


Specifically the Bishop experiment https://wiki.tfes.org/Experimental_Evidence#The_Bishop_Experiment

Considering there is not a single picture to back it up... no, it's not valid.

Actually there's a handful of images around for it in one of the old threads. I recall reading it, don't remember the thread though unfortunately. I don't recall any consensus being reached as there was much argument/disagreement over what his height actually was compared to what he claimed it was.

It should be pretty easy to set up on a tripod where you could see the beach right in front of you and then take a series of zoomed shots all the way to the magic beach on the other side.   Perspective would make it easy to spot a fake.

[xenotolerance]

Just anecdotally, I have found that Brighton Beach in NYC is a good place to test visibility over bodies of water. There are lots of ships and distant landmasses to be seen or not seen.

This is a picture from Sandy Hook looking towards Brighton Beach:


They're 7-8 miles apart, a distance with a curvature of about 40 feet. It's consistent imo: You can't see the beach or the people on it, even with refraction, but you can see the beachfront apartment buildings and most of the famous Parachute Jump tower, which is 250 feet tall.

[model 29]

Scientific validity requires repeatability.  Despite repeated requests, Tom has never identified the specific beach from which he conducted the observations, so we cannot repeat it.

I managed to get "500x" out of him regarding the specs of the telescope. 

[garygreen]

i've always felt that the problem is that a five or ten mile stretch of land actually is very flat.

8 inches per mile is a gradient of 0.01%.  of course the earth looks pretty flat over a ten mile stretch.  it basically is.

[devils advocate]

Cheers folks, so the 8 inches per mile is agreed upon?

[Boots]

8"/miles².

[3DGeek]

Cheers folks, so the 8 inches per mile is agreed upon?

No - it most certainly is not!  It is complete and utter bullshit.

8 inches per mile SQUARED is the rule used by some FE'ers in an effort to disprove the RET...and it exhibits their usual pathetic knowledge of math and geometry (Yes, we're talking about YOU Rowbotham!).

As any kid who is doing high school math should know:  An equation of the form "Y equals a constant times X-squared" is a parabola - not a circle.

As far as I can tell, this was a rough rule-of-thumb given to naval artillery officers during the Napoleonic wars...it's sufficiently accurate over the range of a smooth-bore cannon to be useful...but not so much anyplace else.

So do feel free to ignore/debunk any and all claims that people make using this ridiculous piece of arithmetic.

[Boots]

Here's the graph:

[3DGeek]

Here's the graph:

You conveniently ended the graph before it became obvious that it's not a circle!   Very clever of you!

Let's see the plot from -8,000 to +8,000.   Thanks!

[Boots]

Here's the graph:

You conveniently ended the graph before it became obvious that it's not a circle!   Very clever of you!

Let's see the plot from -8,000 to +8,000.   Thanks!

The earth isn't 16000 Miles across so how would that be relevant?

[garygreen]

8" per mile^2 is a fine approximation for such a short distance.

[3DGeek]

Here's the graph:

You conveniently ended the graph before it became obvious that it's not a circle!   Very clever of you!

Let's see the plot from -8,000 to +8,000.   Thanks!

The earth isn't 16000 Miles across so how would that be relevant?

I just wondered what you thought would happen compared to what actually happens...but plot it from -3,959 to +3,959 if it helps you somehow.

[3DGeek]

Here...let me save you some time...



The green circle is the correct result...your "eight inches per mile squared" is in red - both axes are in miles.

Like I said, it's the WRONG equation.  Kinda-sorta-maybe-vaguely-right for VERY short distances...but not definitive.

The error doesn't look much on this graph - but bear in mind - the vertical scale is 500 *miles* to each grid square - and we're arguing about 10's of feet.

It's typical of an FE'er to CAREFULLY trim the graph so that his horrible error is just off the edges - and to hope that the rest of us are too stupid not to know the correct answer.   Honestly...you must have peeked another 1000 miles off the the side...seen your problem...hoped none of us would call you on it.

Well, guess what Boots?   We're not as dumb as you think we are!

[garygreen]

i'll save you both some time.  it doesn't make any difference at the lengths you're talking about.  no one is doing any bedford-style experiments over 100+ mile distances.  visibility affects your measurements long before the errors accumulate.