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Hey I'm kinda new here. Why are there so few threads? To me there seems to be two ways to prove the earth is round: if a plane can fly across Antarctica, then it supports the round earth.
A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth. Have these things been documented ??? I don't know. Just some thoughts!
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Hey I'm kinda new here. Why are there so few threads? To me there seems to be two ways to prove the earth is round: if a plane can fly across Antarctica, then it supports the round earth.
A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth. Have these things been documented ??? I don't know. Just some thoughts!
While there have been a few planes flown over Antarctica, no one has actually done a proper crossing that way. They generally just cross over that big peninsula that sticks out near South America. Which is still quite a feat, but doesn't prove anything either way.
As for why there are so few threads, there aren't many RE'ers on the site right now and it's still new. We recently had a schism with the old society and most regular FE'ers moved here, but we don't have the publicity or the traffic that the old site had yet.
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I've flown to the Falkland Islands.
It was windy.
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A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth.
No, it doesn't. In either case, the proportion would be the same.
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A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth.
No, it doesn't. In either case, the proportion would be the same.
You are right, the distance from Mexico to Japan does look the same on a flat earth, whether the route goes East or West. On the flat earth map I noticed that the shortest path (starting at Mexico) between the countries is to fly northwest right past the North Pole. But (excuse my ignorance) I don't know if that's possible with real aircraft because I'm not an aviator (or an air traffic guy).
About the South Pole, I found this on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_route
Look at the third picture to the right. How is that route possible on a flat earth?
Also I find this comment from Wikipedia interesting: "As it happens, airlines don't fly nonstop between many city-pairs having a great circle route over Antarctica. Direct flights between South Africa and New Zealand would overfly Antarctica, but no airline has scheduled such flights."
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A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth.
No, it doesn't. In either case, the proportion would be the same.
You are right, the distance from Mexico to Japan does look the same on a flat earth, whether the route goes East or West. On the flat earth map I noticed that the shortest path (starting at Mexico) between the countries is to fly northwest right past the North Pole. But (excuse my ignorance) I don't know if that's possible with real aircraft because I'm not an aviator (or an air traffic guy).
About the South Pole, I found this on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_route
Look at the third picture to the right. How is that route possible on a flat earth?
Also I find this comment from Wikipedia interesting: "As it happens, airlines don't fly nonstop between many city-pairs having a great circle route over Antarctica. Direct flights between South Africa and New Zealand would overfly Antarctica, but no airline has scheduled such flights."
That flight isn't a problem at all. As you can see, they only pass over a bit of Antarctica. They are far from the pole.
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That flight isn't a problem at all. As you can see, they only pass over a bit of Antarctica. They are far from the pole.
But on the flat earth, South America and Australia are on opposite ends of the earth. According to the third picture, it should be a short trip because of the short distance. Perhaps I should take a flight from South America to Australia and see how long it takes! If it's a short time, doesn't it prove the earth to be a globe? Or maybe I'm missing something.
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Or maybe I'm missing something.
You are missing a whole lot. First of all, you don't seem to understand what "east" and "west" mean in FET. You also seem to think that airlines will necessarily take the shortest route between two points, even though this is almost universally untrue.
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You also seem to think that airlines will necessarily take the shortest route between two points, even though this is almost universally untrue.
But do not make a false equivalency. Their routes, though not geographically always the shortest, are most likely the shortest practical route when accounting for weather, regulations and safety.
That flight isn't a problem at all. As you can see, they only pass over a bit of Antarctica. They are far from the pole.
Perhaps I should take a flight from South America to Australia and see how long it takes! If it's a short time, doesn't it prove the earth to be a globe? Or maybe I'm missing something.
It would not prove the Earth is a globe but it would be likely falsify some FE maps.
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Or maybe I'm missing something.
You are missing a whole lot. First of all, you don't seem to understand what "east" and "west" mean in FET. You also seem to think that airlines will necessarily take the shortest route between two points, even though this is almost universally untrue.
I think I understand: West is a clockwise circuit around the central pole and East is counter-clockwise. Is that right?
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Yes that's right.
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Hey I found two claims of crossing Antarctica. One in the 1950s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Trans-Antarctic_Expedition
One in 1979-1982: http://www.transglobe-expedition.org/page/the-expedition
How can you prove them wrong?
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Hey I found two claims of crossing Antarctica. One in the 1950s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Trans-Antarctic_Expedition
One in 1979-1982: http://www.transglobe-expedition.org/page/the-expedition
How can you prove them wrong?
The Trans-Antarctic expedition did cross a significant portion of the antarctic continent, but their route can easily be mapped on the "ice rim" model as well - they just ventured around the rim a bit. The 1979 likely did the same thing, though it's possible they did venture farther into the antarctic landmass than the previous group. Even so, the only real evidence we have of both antarctic expeditions is a written record and some photographs. It's possible they didn't venture as far into the antarctic as they believed, as none of the accounts detail how they tracked their position. Certainly not with GPS, in 1979. It's also possible they were willfully dishonest about reaching the south pole, but I prefer to think they were merely mistaken.
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The Trans-Antarctic expedition did cross a significant portion of the antarctic continent, but their route can easily be mapped on the "ice rim" model as well...
Then please do so. It would be interesting to see how the FE route compares with the RE route.
The 1979 likely did the same thing, though it's possible they did venture farther into the antarctic landmass than the previous group.
I think that some here are operating under the assumption that the geographic south pole is in the center of Antarctica. It isn't.
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Or maybe I'm missing something.
You are missing a whole lot. First of all, you don't seem to understand what "east" and "west" mean in FET. You also seem to think that airlines will necessarily take the shortest route between two points, even though this is almost universally untrue.
why would they not take the shortest route, wouldn't it get more customers if they took a shorter route and they would save fuel meaning cheaper flights which means more people. you seem to just lump everybody that is used as evidence of a round earth into 'nop they are all in on the lie' which really makes no sense
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Who said they don't take the shortest route?
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Who said they are?
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why would they not take the shortest route
Because that'd cost them a lot of money and people don't like wasting money just so that their routes look oh-so-neat on a map.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_stream
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_wind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_planning#Describing_a_route
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Some of the people who say that the world is flat they also believe that there are no Antarctica. If this is the case that there are no Antarctica, then why do these fellows sell airline tickets to Antarctica once a year, where they even cross the South Magnetic Pole?
http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/What-To-Expect (http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/What-To-Expect)
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Some believe that they are actually crossing a commonly crossed peninsula off of the coast of the Ice Wall.
Others believe that Antarctica exists as a continent and the layout of the earth is different than the traditional Flat Earth model.
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Some believe that they are actually crossing a commonly crossed peninsula off of the coast of the Ice Wall.
Others believe that Antarctica exists as a continent and the layout of the earth is different than the traditional Flat Earth model.
What is the current status of an "official" flat earth map? Is there a flat earth map better than the Gleason map?
http://maps.bpl.org/id/15442
That map works ok for Northern Hemisphere, but fails to give correct distances in the Southern Hemisphere.
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Yes, that's the classic Monopole model. Proponents of that model would contest the claim that the southern distances are "incorrect" by asserting that the people who did things like circumnavigate Antarctica didn't go all the way around, since it is a very dangerous and featureless environment (and, for navigational reasons with the magnetic field, often circumnavigating at a distance where the coast could not even be seen), and really only traveled the distance they were supposed to travel along the coast in order to circumnavigate Antarctica under a Round Earth model.
There is another model, which we call the Bi-Polar model, where Antarctica exists as a continent. The explanation on this model is that the vessels circumnavigated Antarctica entirely. An illustration of this model is provided here:
http://wiki.tfes.org/Layout_of_the_Continents
I have another post which explains the route of the sun under this model, but summarily the sun is slowly moving between the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn over the course of the year. For six months of the year the sun travels around the Northern Hemisphere and for six months the sun travels around the Southern Hemisphere. This causes the simultaneous long days for the northern summer and short days for the southern winter, and vice versa when it is winter in the north and summer in the south.
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Those two "models" you cited are simply well known projections made from the globe.
Flat Earth has never produced any accurate maps of the earth for the simple reason the earth is not flat.
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what is this a map of?
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what is this a map of?
This is a map of the globe earth.
In azimuthal projection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection
because you cant draw 3D on 2D.
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Brand new here and have been watching numerous sites on YouTube. If someone had the means to do a flight just around the coast of the Antarctic they could easily calculate a steady turn that would indicate either the edge of a Flat Earth border or the coast of a very large continent on a Globe Earth. I am no scientist but it seems possible and I find it hard to believe that no one has tried this even for a short distance.
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Brand new here and have been watching numerous sites on YouTube. If someone had the means to do a flight just around the coast of the Antarctic they could easily calculate a steady turn that would indicate either the edge of a Flat Earth border or the coast of a very large continent on a Globe Earth. I am no scientist but it seems possible and I find it hard to believe that no one has tried this even for a short distance.
Most people "know" that the earth is round. It's like knowing you will bleed if you cut yourself, why do it if you know it's true?
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Brand new here and have been watching numerous sites on YouTube. If someone had the means to do a flight just around the coast of the Antarctic they could easily calculate a steady turn that would indicate either the edge of a Flat Earth border or the coast of a very large continent on a Globe Earth. I am no scientist but it seems possible and I find it hard to believe that no one has tried this even for a short distance.
I thought this same thing. The globe vs. the disk model produce two very different shorelines for the antarctic; one is a convex curve and the other is a concave curve (I am busting out my math background here hahaha). This could clearly be detected without even having to sail the entire thing. In fact this could possibly prove the flat earth model without even having to sail at all. To prove the flat earth model without doing any sailing all one has to do is be prevented from doing the experiment by the Antarctic Treaty. Then you would know the earth is flat.
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There are daily flights to Amundsen Scott Station during the summer, and there are private light aircraft flights to the South Pole, you can fly to 89S and ski the last degree.
http://polarexplorers.com/expeditions/south-pole/last-degree-ski
Bit too expensive for my liking, but maybe some flat earther can go and witness the 24 hour daylight, and watch the sun go horizontally around the horizon from right to left.
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There are daily flights to Amundsen Scott Station during the summer, and there are private light aircraft flights to the South Pole, you can fly to 89S and ski the last degree.
http://polarexplorers.com/expeditions/south-pole/last-degree-ski
Bit too expensive for my liking, but maybe some flat earther can go and witness the 24 hour daylight, and watch the sun go horizontally around the horizon from right to left.
Why do all trips to the south pole enter Antarctica from the South America side of Antarctica. I have not done extensive research on this point, but so far all I can find are trips that begin in South America, in Chile to be precise. I even looked up Russian trips to the south pole and the ones I found start from Chile. Is there a problem with getting to the south pole from a different side of Antarctica? ???
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I would guess it has to do with logistics
Travel distance, how many people can afford to and want to fly over Antarctica, where they are coming from, etc..
Also how interested a country is in hosting. Chile has a permeant base there and have been fairly active trying to establish a claim.
The entire continent is considered a natural reserve and according to a treaty requires permission from a country of origin.
This can also depend on a countries stance on environmentalism. McMurdo is also a permanent US station but it is scientific and the US does not seem to be interested in encouraging tourism.
Found an interesting article about an Australian who was the first to solo flight in a single-engine home-built aircraft over the South Pole in 2003.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Johanson
http://www.southpolestation.com/news/rv4/rv4.html
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Ok but you do understand that a flat earther would guess differently, right?
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Why do all trips to the south pole enter Antarctica from the South America side of Antarctica. I have not done extensive research on this point, but so far all I can find are trips that begin in South America, in Chile to be precise. I even looked up Russian trips to the south pole and the ones I found start from Chile. Is there a problem with getting to the south pole from a different side of Antarctica? ???
No they don't, you just didn't look very hard. There are tours leaving from NZ, Tasmania, South Africa as well as South America.
http://www.coolantarctica.com/Travel/antarctica_trip_new_zealand_australia.php
These guys in South Africa, will fly you to the Geographic South Pole in a 9 day adventure holiday.
http://www.white-desert.com/adventures/emperors-south-pole/
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These examples don't refute the flat earth theory. First of all the New Zealand/Australia trips don't even go to the south pole. And the South Africa trip does not mention the route they take to the south pole. For all we know they may come in a little past the 80 degree south line from the African point, but then skirt around westerly to the South American point, and then go the the south pole from there. In order the refute the flat earth theory you would have to know that the trip approaches the south pole directly going only south from the African entry point. But how would we know that?
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These examples don't refute the flat earth theory. First of all the New Zealand/Australia trips don't even go to the south pole. And the South Africa trip does not mention the route they take to the south pole. For all we know they may come in a little past the 80 degree south line from the African point, but then skirt around westerly to the South American point, and then go the the south pole from there. In order the refute the flat earth theory you would have to know that the trip approaches the south pole directly going only south from the African entry point. But how would we know that?
Not quite right, you only need to prove the existence of the South Pole to refute the flat earth argument completely, unless you can come up with a flat earth model that has two poles.
How can you tell if you are actually at the geographic South Pole? Well, first you could look up and notice that the stars are revolving around a point that is directly overhead, but that might not work too well in mid summer, stars would be hard to see, since the sun never sets, ( another proof of the globe ), you could watch the sun moving around the horizon from right to left. That would prove you were at the South Pole, and not teleported magically to the North Pole. Where the sun would be going the opposite way around the horizon.
The flight cost is 62,000 euro for a 9 day expedition, and you would then be able to report back here, confirm or deny the truth of what I'm saying.
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Ok but you do understand that a flat earther would guess differently, right?
I do not really care what Flat Earther's would guess because no amount of evidence will ever change their mind
If everything else fails they can always claim "conspiracy"
So this Australian pilot is just a shill for NASA -etc..
I did not post it to convince anyone. I posted it to give people who are undecided the facts.
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Ok but you do understand that a flat earther would guess differently, right?
I do not really care what Flat Earther's would guess because no amount of evidence will ever change their mind
If everything else fails they can always claim "conspiracy"
So this Australian pilot is just a shill for NASA -etc..
I did not post it to convince anyone. I posted it to give people who are undecided the facts.
Well it kind of is a fact that the south pole is pretty much on lock down with that antarctic treaty, so it would not be surprising if TPTB get to pic and choose who gets to run trips to Antarctica. So yes the pilot could be a shill.
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So yes the pilot could be a shill.
I can see you didn't read the article, the pilot wasn't authorised for the flight, he kept his plans to fly to the pole a secret, and upset the people at McMurdo who refused to provide him the fuel for his return flight, he ended up broke. ABC South Australia did an interview with him. The officials at McMurdo offered to send him home on a routine flight and send his plane by ship, and then bill him for it. He refused, and Polly Vacher, lent him 400 liters of avgas to be able to fly back to NZ. http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/sa/content/2003/s1089290.htm
Others have flown uninvited to the South Pole, Dick Smith did it in 1988, he flew a helicopter from North Pole to South Pole. They interviewed him about the Johannsen flight. Here is a excerpt from the transcript. Very critical of those McMurdo Officals with a stick up their arse.
ALISON CALDWELL: But isn't it the case, though, that if the Americans decide to sell Jon Johanson some fuel, that any adventurer might just decide I am going to try and fly to the Antarctic because if I run out of fuel, I'll get some from the Americans?
DICK SMITH: Well, see they can't stop anyone from flying there. It's international territory and they end up with a duty of care. If they put a base, if they put a hotel on the South Col of Everest, they'd constantly have climbers knocking on their door saying can you help me and they'd have to because it's called a duty of care.
Now the Americans have built these huge bases in Antarctica for nothing other than political reasons and then they're astonished when adventurers, which will always go to Antarctica, they have since Mawson's and Shackleton's time, that adventurers occasional ask for help.
Well, it's just part of being there. If you want the political kudos of having a huge base mounted at the South Pole, you'll end up with adventurers calling in from time to time. Bad luck. Take the base away if you don't want it to happen.
In general the Antarctic Treaty prohibits military and commercial activity. It's not "locked down" as such.
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Well it kind of is a fact that the south pole is pretty much on lock down with that antarctic treaty, so it would not be surprising if TPTB get to pic and choose who gets to run trips to Antarctica. So yes the pilot could be a shill.
Yes there is a treaty that governs Antarctica but that is not a "lock down".
Any country in the world can go there and conduct science or tourism.
According to the article on the private pilot, he did not actually file a correct flight plan so that no one would try and object before he made the flight.
He had to return to Murdock because he ran low on gas and made an un approved landing there.
I did not see any indication that he was fined or his pilots license was suspended or he was punished in any way.
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Here is another transcript of an interview with Jon Johnason, he makes it quite clear that no-one needs permission to overfly over the South Pole.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s1009424.htm
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Even if by treaty it did require some sort of host country permission and FAA type flight plan -the entire continent of Antarctica is more than twice the size of Australia with only about 1000 year round residence peaking to maybe 4000 in summer.
So it is pretty much deserted. I doubt they could even find anyone exploring it much less stop them.
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What I find odd is the fact that there aren't tons and tons of people trying to cross the antarctic. Many people are up for a challenge as can be seen by the large numbers of people attempting to climb mount Everest. Why are there not the same numbers of people attempting to cross the antarctic. You would think there would be some sort of "pride prize" for people who climb mount Everest and cross the antarctic. You show me one guy here with a story, or an other guy there, to me there just isn't enough people trying it. And add that to the fact that all tourism to the South Pole emanates from South America. Nah my red flag is up on this one. Something weird is going on. Show me a guy who enters antarctica from the australian side and goes south and only south and makes it to Amundsen-Scott base where the official south pole is and I will be more convinced.
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What I find odd is the fact that there aren't tons and tons of people trying to cross the antarctic. Many people are up for a challenge as can be seen by the large numbers of people attempting to climb mount Everest. Why are there not the same numbers of people attempting to cross the antarctic. You would think there would be some sort of "pride prize" for people who climb mount Everest and cross the antarctic. You show me one guy here with a story, or an other guy there, to me there just isn't enough people trying it. And add that to the fact that all tourism to the South Pole emanates from South America. Nah my red flag is up on this one. Something weird is going on. Show me a guy who enters antarctica from the australian side and goes south and only south and makes it to Amundsen-Scott base where the official south pole is and I will be more convinced.
The only way you will ever be convinced is to go there yourself. The only weird thing going on is in your mind.
I suspect you have no real concept of how hostile the Antarctic environment really is, think of six months without seeing the sun, howling blizzards, temperatures so cold you would die in minutes. The lowest temperature recorded at Vostok station was -89.2C or -128.6F, the annual average temperature of the Antarctic interior is -57C. And you wonder why people aren't queuing up en-masse to go there.... I think I know why.
Here are some webcams that the Australian Antarctic Division maintains.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/webcams
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You go there in the summer not the winter. Yeah something is weird going on with the antarctic, there should be tons of people crossing it. There should be trails made from all directions leading the south pole. It should be like mount Everest with large numbers of people making the trip each year. Sure the Antarctic is hostile, and so is Mount Everest but that never stopped huge numbers of people from climbing it.
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That seems like a reasonable point to me.
Yes -Why do people risk their lives to climb a mountain and not cross a continent?
This is just conjecture on my part:
Climbing a mountain sounds "sexier"
It is actually much easier because Everest is set up like an tourist activity. All the supplies are there and it is relatively easy to set up.
As has been pointed out there are people who go there for adventure but they tend to fly there or take cruise ships around it or sail around it.
-as well as the thousand or so people who risk there lives living there year round to conduct science and an additional 3000 that are there exploring or conducting science in the summer.
On the flip side, the FE also has an Antarctica (just shaped different) and no one has ever been interested in exploring it.
Regardless of the number of people that actually do it -it is still actually done.
So asking why more people do not do it does not effect anything -it is simply an interesting question of human behavior.
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I just wondered if Greenpeace was considered as part of the world conspiracy by "people" as they say they had a permanent base (World Park) there from 1987-92, keeping an eye on the American and French bases to see that they kept to the agreements in place, they report they stopped the French building an airstrip which meant dynamiting a penguin nesting colony.
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The other barrier to mass tourism to Antarctica, apart from the sheer inhospitability of the place, is distance.
Here is a map of great circle distances to various places around Antarctica. To travel to the South Pole from Hobart you firstly have a 3443 Km ocean voyage, or flight to get to Casey Station, then you have a further 2647 km to go to get to the South Pole. There are no roads, just thousands of km of ice and blizzards.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/149172/circle_distances.pdf
The other thing people don't seem to realise is the size of Antarctica. At 14.2 million square km, It's twice the size of Australia, and roughly the size of the United States and Mexico combined, the hike to the South Pole from Casey Station would be about same distance as walking from Dallas Texas to New York, but with no roads, just ice, and blizzards, no people.
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When you look at the terrain they had to cross it is amazing that anyone managed to reach it by land.
Yeah, walking the equivalent distance from Dallas to New York (even in the Antarctic summer) does not seem like a good way to spend a vacation.
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I've just learned recently that the idea of a flat earth hasn't been totally disproven, so I started looking up whether anyone has actually crossed Antarctica and ended up here. I've read a few articles on people who have. Though after reading quite a few stories none of them have actually disproved the fe theory. Most of them end up making it to the south pole and due to some circumstance have to turn around, others sort of follow that line that divides Eastern and Western Antarctica. I haven't seen anything on whether someone has gone from say Fossll Bluff to Casey or from like Byrd to Amundsen Scott to Mirayy. In my opinion that supports the ice wall theory.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel/felicity-aston-antarctic-explorer/
This news report claims a women crossed Antarctica but as you can see on there map she did not cross through the middle. I believe others in this post have mentioned no one has.
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Im new to the "theory" and I dont like to pretend I have certainties. I remain open to learning.
My question is: if the earth is flat, then you cant go around it if you go east or west, correct? You can only go around it if its a globe, if its flat, there will be edges.
So, there are edges everywhere, not just on the south pole. So this by itself, to me, already "debunks". I hate that word, but its the only one now.
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And how about the north pole? Why is everyone talking about the south and not the north? And by that example, why not any edge?
Picture a globe, a ball. You can go around it anywhere, all you have to do is keep going straight. You dont have to go south pole or north pole. So you can go straight and if its a globe, you will reach the other continents and eventually, come back to the same spot. I hope someone has a good explanation to this.
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Hey I'm kinda new here. Why are there so few threads? To me there seems to be two ways to prove the earth is round: if a plane can fly across Antarctica, then it supports the round earth.
A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth. Have these things been documented ??? I don't know. Just some thoughts!
Only 2 ways to test the shape of the Earth? Come on, I could spam experiments that prove Earth's shape all day. I have even done a few and they all seem to invariably agree that Earth is round.
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The problem with the flat earth model where Antarctica is at the very edge as an "impassable" land mass. This model is even more confused with the Sun and moon rotation in this model from the various pictures, diagrams, videos, and animations that are provided by FE'ers
In this theory it states that the sun and the moon circle back and forth but only light the areas of the planet that they are directly above. In this example, if the sun is on the North America side, then the Russian side had the moon over it, and is lit by the moon.
The problem with this theory is that it doesn't account for the piece of Antarctica that is in that region of the flat earth that is dimly lit by the moon. In this example we will use the Russian part.
Most people have gone to great lengths to explain that the distances are too vast to traverse from the top of Antartica to let's say down the middle and to the other side. Because according to this model, they are on opposite sides of the flat earth map, and to get between the two distances one would have to travel from edge to center to edge on the opposite side of the entire flat earth to make the journey.
In Antartica we have a 24 hour window of sun where the sun will literally go in a circle in the sky. Taking that into account, if you are standing at any point of Antartica in the flat earth model where Antartica lines the edges of the flat earth, you would not have a situation where there is a 24 hour sun period.
The link below has several life feeds of Antartica cams for pretty much every day. And it shows the sun lighting up the skies 24 hours.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/webcams/davis
The question then, in this model, how is the sun lighting Antartica for 24 hours?
Even the revised version of the flat earth model in which antartica does not line the edge of the map does not support how the sun and the moon would work in this model.
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel/felicity-aston-antarctic-explorer/
This news report claims a women crossed Antarctica but as you can see on there map she did not cross through the middle. I believe others in this post have mentioned no one has.
Who says that she crossed the middle? She went via the South Pole which is nowhere near the middle!
You do realise where the South Pole is? Explorers Amundsen and Scott entered via the Ross Ice Shelf! See in the picture to the right.
But, I thought it was the South Pole that the Flat Earthers claim does not exist, yet it is so well known that numerous people go there. I do not know about the other parts - not too many just on skis, more like aircraft and heavy vehicles.
From: http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole (http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole)
Felicity Aston Arrives at South Pole
Skier halfway in Antarctic crossing
British adventurer Felicity Aston on Tuesday reached at the South Pole, 30 days after setting out from the Antarctic coast on skis. Aston plans to rest briefly at the South Pole Research station, then continue across the continent through January. |
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Antarctic_expedition_map_%28Amundsen_-_Scott%29-es.svg/610px-Antarctic_expedition_map_%28Amundsen_-_Scott%29-es.svg.png)
The routes to the South Pole
taken by Scott (green) and Amundsen (red),
1911–1912. |
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg/718px-Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg)
by: Maximilian Dörrbecker |
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/121004024633-antarctica-01-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg)
from: Felicity Aston: Diary of a solo Antarctic crossing |
I really do not know why you seem to see a need to denigrate the achievements of people like this.
It's almost as though you think they are just doing it to spite the notion of a Flat Earth!
Now I'm getting suspicious of people's motives - must be catching!
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Thank you Rabinoz for setting that straight.
The FE'ers conveniently like to discount anything that goes against their Flat Earth Model.
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So long story short, no one has ever flown directly south over the continent until they reached the other side and were going north? Also can someone shed some light on why there are "geographic" and a "magnetic" north poles?
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I checked for a non-stop from Buenos Aires to Sydney about a week ago and found 1 that was 19 hours. Currently only a 1 stop. Most flights stop in Dubai. Why? You might ask (It is in the straight line path on the FE map). Here is the only currently available 1 stop flight (through Dallas):
Depart: Buenos Aires - Ministro Pistarini (EZE) to Sydney - Kingsford Smith (SYD)
American Airlines
Flight 996 Departs: Thu Feb 11 9:20pm Buenos Aires - Ministro Pistarini (EZE)
Arrives: Fri Feb 12 5:24am Dallas - TX, Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW)
Flight Duration: 11h 04m
Connection Time: 14h 46m
American Airlines
Flight 7375 Departs: Fri Feb 12 8:10pm Dallas - TX, Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW)
Arrives: Sun Feb 14 6:05am Sydney - Kingsford Smith (SYD)
Flight Duration: 16h 55m
Operated by: QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED
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I checked for a non-stop from Buenos Aires to Sydney about a week ago and found 1 that was 19 hours. Currently only a 1 stop. Most flights stop in Dubai. Why? You might ask (It is in the straight line path on the FE map). Here is the only currently available 1 stop flight (through Dallas):
Depart: Buenos Aires - Ministro Pistarini (EZE) to Sydney - Kingsford Smith (SYD)
American Airlines
Flight 996 Departs: Thu Feb 11 9:20pm Buenos Aires - Ministro Pistarini (EZE)
Arrives: Fri Feb 12 5:24am Dallas - TX, Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW)
Flight Duration: 11h 04m
Connection Time: 14h 46m
American Airlines
Flight 7375 Departs: Fri Feb 12 8:10pm Dallas - TX, Dallas/Fort Worth International (DFW)
Arrives: Sun Feb 14 6:05am Sydney - Kingsford Smith (SYD)
Flight Duration: 16h 55m
Operated by: QANTAS AIRWAYS LIMITED
QANTAS does not fly non-stop Buenos Aires to Sydney,
If you want non-stop QANTAS flights pick routes that QANTAS does fly non-stop, such as Santiago to Sydney or Johannesburg to Sydney.
Here are today's:
QANTAS Flight 28 Santiago to Sydney
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/QANTAS%20flight%2028_zpsfksd71ku.png) | QANTAS Flight 64 Johannesburg to Sydney
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/QANTAS%20flight%2064%2011%20Feb%202016_zpsnzoodfi0.png) |
These flights simply do not make sense on the usual FE map!
I'll leave you work out the flight times and distances!
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I checked for a non-stop from Buenos Aires to Sydney about a week ago and found 1 that was 19 hours. Currently only a 1 stop. Most flights stop in Dubai. Why? You might ask (It is in the straight line path on the FE map).
You say that, but offer no evidence. And the one result you do share, goes to Dallas not Dubai. So I did my own Expedia search between those two airports. What I see is that ALL flights stop in Santiago Chile, and many also stop in Aukland New Zealand.
https://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?mode=search&leg1=from:Buenos%20Aires,%20Argentina%20(EZE-Ministro%20Pistarini%20Intl.),to:Sydney,%20NSW,%20Australia%20(SYD-All%20Airports),departure:02/22/2016TANYT&trip=roundtrip&leg2=from:Sydney,%20NSW,%20Australia%20(SYD-All%20Airports),to:Buenos%20Aires,%20Argentina%20(EZE-Ministro%20Pistarini%20Intl.),departure:02/26/2016TANYT&passengers=children:0,adults:2,infantinlap:Y&options=cabinclass:economy&origref=www.expedia.com%2FFlight-Search-All (https://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?mode=search&leg1=from:Buenos%20Aires,%20Argentina%20(EZE-Ministro%20Pistarini%20Intl.),to:Sydney,%20NSW,%20Australia%20(SYD-All%20Airports),departure:02/22/2016TANYT&trip=roundtrip&leg2=from:Sydney,%20NSW,%20Australia%20(SYD-All%20Airports),to:Buenos%20Aires,%20Argentina%20(EZE-Ministro%20Pistarini%20Intl.),departure:02/26/2016TANYT&passengers=children:0,adults:2,infantinlap:Y&options=cabinclass:economy&origref=www.expedia.com%2FFlight-Search-All)
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All it takes is a person with a private jet to take matters in their own hands and go from Australia to South America over the bottom of the globe. Any takers?
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All it takes is a person with a private jet to take matters in their own hands and go from Australia to South America over the bottom of the globe. Any takers?
Why I hadn't thought of that. I'll just hop into my private jet right now and see for myself. I'll take Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears with me, maybe we can have an threesome while we are at it. Hell, I'll take the Hope Diamond along too, because why not?
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All it takes is a person with a private jet to take matters in their own hands and go from Australia to South America over the bottom of the globe. Any takers?
Why I hadn't thought of that. I'll just hop into my private jet right now and see for myself. I'll take Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears with me, maybe we can have an threesome while we are at it. Hell, I'll take the Hope Diamond along too, because why not?
Exactly lol... a lot of resistance to the theory is based on "you can go to Antarctica anytime you want! There are even guided tours!" So, my point is if any particular institution wants to finally put the Flat Earth to bed, then they can do so by flying around the "south pole" to prove it. Maybe we can get Richard Branson to do it, he seems like a pretty rad rebellious kind of guy, one who might even be open/have vested interests to proving that we actually are on a sphere, considering he has poured millions into his space plane project.
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Exactly lol... a lot of resistance to the theory is based on "you can go to Antarctica anytime you want! There are even guided tours!" So, my point is if any particular institution wants to finally put the Flat Earth to bed, then they can do so by flying around the "south pole" to prove it. Maybe we can get Richard Branson to do it, he seems like a pretty rad rebellious kind of guy, one who might even be open/have vested interests to proving that we actually are on a sphere, considering he has poured millions into his space plane project.
Well, people have done it by air and land
From: http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/ (http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/)
EXPEDITIONS
Ranulph Fiennes is the only man alive ever to have travelled around the Earth's circumpolar surface.
Ranulph Fiennes has led the following expeditions:
2009 - Everest Nepal Summit (Became the first person ever to summit Everest and cross both polar ice caps)
2014 - The Coldest Journey – Antarctic plateau through polar winter.
From: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigation (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigation)
TAG Global claims record for polar circumnavigation
by Charles Alcock
- December 31, 2008, 6:20 AM
TAG Group vice president Aziz Ojjeh and a team of four other pilots broke a
31-year-old speed record for a pole-to-pole circumnavigation of the globe in late November. The TransPolar08 crew circled the globe over the North and South Poles in a Bombardier Global Express, chopping 95 minutes off the record previously held by a Pan Am Boeing 747SP that made the trip in October 1977.
Then in an earlier post http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg88364#msg88364 (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg88364#msg88364) I gave some details of the route taken by Felicity Aston on her solo trek to the south pole (not by air). Here is a bit of that post:
From: http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole (http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole)
Felicity Aston Arrives at South Pole
Skier halfway in Antarctic crossing
British adventurer Felicity Aston on Tuesday reached at the South Pole, 30 days after setting out from the Antarctic coast on skis. Aston plans to rest briefly at the South Pole Research station, then continue across the continent through January.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg/718px-Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg)
by: Maximilian Dörrbecker |
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/121004024633-antarctica-01-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg)
from: Felicity Aston: Diary of a solo Antarctic crossing |
Look, these people are not out to disprove your precious flat earth,
they know it is quite and adventure to travel to the south pole, so they go there, pure and simple.
It seems, however, as though you think they are just doing it to spite your notion of a Flat Earth!
Now I'm getting suspicious of people's motives - must be catching!
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I have heard there are American and/or Russian navy boats when you are about to enter Antarctica. They are there to make sure no one enters it in the first place. IS THIS TRUE or am i wrong??? There is an offical declaration of this former US government officer who tempted to make a trip across Antarctica since he had the means to, but the government didnt permit him to do so.
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IS THIS TRUE or am i wrong???
As far as I can tell, you are wrong. Thousands of people go every year as tourists, in addition to the scientists who maintain a presence at McMurdo station.
Here's a web site where you can set up your own visit (http://www.polarcruises.com/antarctica?mm_campaign=485D87F841FB2962CDAE4DA47CAA0F31&keyword=travel%20to%20antarctica&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Antarctica%20Travel%20-%20Exact&gclid=CjwKEAiAjfq2BRDpmdHmssaW5xsSJABToP4lPZnKpfHxuC_WM4bLnCwoAyLf5hFn3zgNU0aM7OpcDhoC0Nnw_wcB). It's not cheap.
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IS THIS TRUE or am i wrong???
As far as I can tell, you are wrong. Thousands of people go every year as tourists, in addition to the scientists who maintain a presence at McMurdo station.
Here's a web site where you can set up your own visit (http://www.polarcruises.com/antarctica?mm_campaign=485D87F841FB2962CDAE4DA47CAA0F31&keyword=travel%20to%20antarctica&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Antarctica%20Travel%20-%20Exact&gclid=CjwKEAiAjfq2BRDpmdHmssaW5xsSJABToP4lPZnKpfHxuC_WM4bLnCwoAyLf5hFn3zgNU0aM7OpcDhoC0Nnw_wcB). It's not cheap.
It's not cheap and it's owned by the daughter of the top official at the NOAA.
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It's owned by the daughter of the top official at the NOAA.
Citation needed. I myself can find no mention of NOAA Director Dr. Kathryn D. Sullivan having any children. Or maybe by "the top official" you meant Chief Scientist, Dr. Richard Spinrad? Polar Cruises' web site lists a Nina Spinrad, who has been with the company for a year and a half. She is his son's wife (http://obits.columbian.com/obituaries/columbian/obituary.aspx?n=gerald-gene-thompson&pid=131893604) (not his daughter); and she's an employee of Polar Cruises (not the owner).
Why is any of that relevant anyway? I feel like you wanted that point to be some sort of "gotcha!" but I don't see it.
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It's owned by the daughter of the top official at the NOAA.
Citation needed. I myself can find no mention of NOAA Director Dr. Kathryn D. Sullivan having any children. Or maybe by "the top official" you meant Chief Scientist, Dr. Richard Spinrad? Polar Cruises' web site lists a Nina Spinrad, who has been with the company for a year and a half. She is his son's wife (http://obits.columbian.com/obituaries/columbian/obituary.aspx?n=gerald-gene-thompson&pid=131893604) (not his daughter); and she's an employee of Polar Cruises (not the owner).
Why is any of that relevant anyway? I feel like you wanted that point to be some sort of "gotcha!" but I don't see it.
Well thanks for clearing that up for me, I couldn't remember exactly the connection there, but thanks to you I don't have to do the research myself :) I was just pointing out an interesting connection there.
It's a very lucrative business though, to take someone to the tip of a place in Antartica, to stay in a hut. I wouldn't dare say that the Spinrad family has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo in regards to the edge of our Earth.
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From the wiki (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy), to which RE participants are so often directed:
There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy
Which means (if you FE folks actually believe your own wiki) the Spinrad family has no interest in maintaining anything, status quo or otherwise. As a matter of fact, Just think about the MASSIVE number of tourists who would want to see the Ice Wall if such a thing could be shown to exist! I picture Red Bull sponsoring a contest to see if anyone could scale it, or find out if it has a southernmost edge. Think of the huge sums of money to be had from the people attempting to circumnavigate that edge, or climb down the outside of it, or whatever other lunatic exploration of it could be attempted.
Say what you will, but if the earth is flat then the round-earth, nothing-to-see-here status quo leaves a lot of money on the table. If Dr Spinrad loves his daughter-in-law, he should be overturning the status quo so that Polar Cruises can start raking in the cash from the lucrative influx of world's-edge tourism.
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From the wiki (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy), to which RE participants are so often directed: There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy
Which means (if you FE folks actually believe your own wiki) the Spinrad family has no interest in maintaining anything, status quo or otherwise. As a matter of fact, Just think about the MASSIVE number of tourists who would want to see the Ice Wall if such a thing could be shown to exist! I picture Red Bull sponsoring a contest to see if anyone could scale it, or find out if it has a southernmost edge. Think of the huge sums of money to be had from the people attempting to circumnavigate that edge, or climb down the outside of it, or whatever other lunatic exploration of it could be attempted.
Say what you will, but if the earth is flat then the round-earth, nothing-to-see-here status quo leaves a lot of money on the table. If Dr Spinrad loves his daughter-in-law, he should be overturning the status quo so that Polar Cruises can start raking in the cash from the lucrative influx of world's-edge tourism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
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I too often feel that way after reading the wiki, you've nailed it!
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Also can someone shed some light on why there are "geographic" and a "magnetic" north poles?
So it seem using google is too hard for you?
The geographic north pole also known as the celestial north pole is the north pole of Earth's rotational axis, it points towards the star Polaris.
The north magnetic pole is where compass points north, it moves overtime and the movement can be detected in a decade, it is currently in the Arctic Ocean about north of Canada.
Additionally there is the north ecliptic pole, the north pole of Earth's orbital plane, the Sun appears to revolve around Earth relative to background star viewed from there.
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why doesnt anyone (with a small amount of money) organize to fly a drone over the South pole, heading due south (for as long as it can fly) ?
this would rest the lid on whether flat earth people are correct or not.
Surely its not much of an investment between some flat earth people who have some private funds.
its a drone, so there is no risk to human health.
and CCTV will record the entire thing ;)
PS: if anyone reads this and gets an idea, then PLEASE DONT USE FISH EYE LENS CAMERAS !!!! as it really distrots (bends) the horizon and important features.
if a group of similar minded people do this, then they could also do and fund a Rocket launch (maybe 70 miles high) and again, DONT USE A FISH EYE LENS!!!!
Go Pro cameras suck because they are not realistic. (they BEND and give a false horizon).
anyway,, so why doesnt anyone do the remote control drone over Antartica Due South ?
really.. that would be the icing on the cake !
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why doesnt anyone (with a small amount of money) organize to fly a drone over the South pole, heading due south (for as long as it can fly) ?
this would rest the lid on whether flat earth people are correct or not.
Several reasons, listed in the order I thought of them:
First off, it isn't a "small amount of money". Travel to the region could easily cost upwards of $40,000.
Second, while drones are allowed there are rules (http://www.adventure-network.com/files/attachments/ANI%20Guidance%20for%20use%20of%20UAV%20and%20similar%20systems.pdf), one of which is you must recover the craft. This means you would not be allowed to simply fly south until it dies, unless your machine has the range (both flight range and radio transmitter range) to actually cross to the other side of the continent (round earth assumption) for recovery. I don't think any drones can do that yet. (Another rule prevents flying over the pole itself, to prevent crashing there, but a flight nearby should satisfy the challenge.).
Third, even if such a flight were completed, with full HD video and a GPS track the whole way, the wiki itself says (http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ) "In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence. It is too easily manipulated and altered....With this litany of problems, it's easy to see why photographic evidence is not to be trusted." If the video is likely to be rejected a priori, why should anybody (on either side) bother going to the effort and expense of shooting it in the first place?
And fourth, a reason that will sound harsh but I include for the sake of completing the list: of those people who even know there is a modern Flat Earth viewpoint, the vast majority believe it to be either fake (internet trolls pretending to believe) or folly. Very few outside this forum take the Flat Earth viewpoint seriously, certainly not to the level of spending time and money to prove it wrong. The rest of the world considers the matter settled by thousands of years, and if a modern person doesn't believe round earth already, one more piece of evidence is unlikely to change that.
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I came across this forum by accident and read through this post. It appears to be quite evident that most everyone that has posted on this thread is simply googling information and posting their opinions. That is quite normal because it is exceptionally unlikely that any bonafide world traveler would be posting on these forums. Luckily, I have noticed this silly thread. I warn you that this post will be quite long.
Here is part of my business CV. I am a professional world traveler. My clients pay for my expertise to lead them on exotic excursions around the world. I have been to Mount Everest, every major mountain range in the world and to the north and south poles. I have an international back grounding in mountaineering, ice climbing, rescue and things of that nature. If the circumference of the earth is nearly 30,000 miles round, I have circled the globe over 30 times. These credentials should place me as the most qualified poster so I do hope that you pay attention to the information that I am providing.
Let us begin! We have all heard about tourists that have "visited Antarctica". The primary story is that someone flew to Santiago, Chile and then took a jumper flight south to Punta Arenas, jumped on their cruise ship which took them to surrounding islands and then onto part of the Antarctica peninsula, which is most definitely not the interior. A trip like this will run you anywhere from $7,000USD to $25,000USD depending on your flights and cabin class. In my professional opinion this is the equivalent of flying from Asia to Liberty Island, seeing the Statue of Liberty, flying home and telling everyone that you went to America. Be it West or East there are cruises that will take you to surrounding islands and barely onto the landmass of Antarctica itself. The main focal point of these cruises is to see Penguins. Seeing icebergs and leopard seals would be a plus. Attempting to explore the vast interior would be utterly pointless as there is nothing to do there and these people have quite literally no experience.
Have you ever met anyone that has completed a mountaineering expedition in Antarctica? Probably not! A summit attempt of Vinson Massif, the highest mountain in Antarctica will typically run you $120,000USD. This cost is typically paid through a variety of sponsors. The expedition is quite easy from a technical perspective and would be on par with climbing Cho Oyu in the Himalayas. You get dropped off a Patriot Hills at the foot of the Ellsworth Mountain range and then you need to hike for 5 days into the Sentinel Range before reaching the base of Vinson. The clothing and gear you will have with you is valued at around $60,000 or more. The temperatures during a summer ascent are around -80F. Have you ever been in -80F? No, you have not. You have probably never been in -30F either. There is nothing wrong with that, but let us not pretend like we know what we are talking about until we have experienced -80F in Antarctica. Dealing with subzero temperatures requires a significant amount of training. I need you to understand that in order to be prepared for daily temperatures of even -30F you need a significant amount of training and preparation.
What type of experience is required?
Nationally first aid certified
CPR certificated
Mountain rescue certified
Mountain survival certified
Arctic survival certified
No less than 20 hours of igloo formation practice
No less than 3 years of training in subzero conditions
Pretend you are some idiot tourist that dished out $110,000 for this "cool" expedition to Vinson. You get separated from your team for THREE DAYS. Do you think you will survive on your own? How much subzero bivouac training do you have? One of my friends, a world famous mountaineer got lost during an expedition on Shishapangma, the 14th highest mountain in the world for FOUR DAYS. The rescue team had pronounced her dead but somehow miraculously found her on day 4. Her vast world experience and training is what allowed her to survive. For tourists at Vinsion, I assure you that there would be a 100% death rate over a three day separation period. Climbing and exploring in Antarctica is only done by VERY few experts in the world per year and they have set goals. There is no concept of just wandering around Antarctica trying to prove if the world is flat. This is a very serious place where people die very quickly.
Have you ever met someone that has WORKED in Antarctica? No, you have not. I know a guy that worked in Antarctica for 6 months straight and hated every minute of it. He worked at Amundsen and McMurdo and had a horrible time. You are stuck inside virtually all day and when you do actually go outside, guess what you can do? Nothing! It is just a vast expanse of nothing, in every direction. If you have a useful skill you can volunteer to go work in Antarctica and go see what this is like for yourself. There is no government conspiracy or lock-down like people are trying to push. You have to understand that a RESEARCH center like McMurdo has a very finite amount of supplies and it is also not a HOTEL. There was a quote earlier in this thread about the researchers being shocked when someone shows up there needing help. He said "if you do not want people showing up, then do not build bases there". This perspective is exceptionally wrong. Imagine there are 5 Indonesian men working in a sewer that is full of feces. Their job is to really get into these clogged pipes and be covered in feces all day long. Their pay is shit (pun intended) and they work long hours. The work is absolutely terrible and they would rather not be there. Then imagine there is this feces explorer that LOVES exploring sewers around the world. He VOLUNTEERS and goes and works in the sewers with the Indonesian workers. The Indonesian workers are looking at him like "are you fucking stupid?".. this is how the researchers at McMurdo are looking at these people that show up there. These researchers, scientists and volunteers at these stations are removed from their families and friends for many months at a time, living in almost complete isolation from the rest of the world.. and this guy knocks on their door because he was wandering about..for fun. Honestly think that over for a while. The same guy that worked in Antarctica for an extended period also volunteered for 4 months at the physical North Pole. He loved working there because he was mainly on a ship and since he had grown up on ships he was able to gain experience and see more things. If you meet anyone that has ever worked in Antarctica.. not a TOURIST but someone that actually WORKED there, they will all tell you that it is very crappy and you are stuck inside regretting being there.
Antarctica is very inaccessible, very dangerous and very expensive. This post is to address the naive posters that are suggesting people should just wander to Antarctica and set across the continent. Stay away from Antarctica! Go see penguins at the zoo and certainly do not attempt to enter the interior as you will most likely die within days. Attempting a north-south crossing of Antarctica would literally take YEARS to accomplish and to be honest there is at least an 80% chance that most anyone attempting that crossing would die in the process. The sheer THOUGHT that anyone would even ATTEMPT to cross the entirety of Antarctica is suicidal and asinine on the face of it.
What is in Antarctica? The main topographical features of interest on Antarctica are the ice shelves, specifically the Larsen and Ross shelves. Lake Vostok is another place that is of high significance as it was universally agreed that there was no life present deep within this lake. Scientists were baffled when they discovered life living in the depths of this lake that was covered by 13,100 feet of ice. More recently scientists have discovered and confirmed the largest canyon in the world underneath the Antarctic ice. The glacier is three times larger than the Grand Canyon in the Ellsworth region. There is an entire continent under this ice that we know very little about and these "bases" around Antarctica are actually research centers that help with paleogeology, atmospheric earth sciences, paleoclimatology and many other disciplines of science. Having these research stations IN Antarctica is integral for the study of the land. You do not build a "base" in Australia and then attempt to fly to Antarctica and gallivant around the interior attempting to sort of conduct research. Anyone that suggests the presence of military bases on Antarctica that are trying to "keep us from learning the truth of what is beyond" have A) quite literally no idea what they are talking about. B) Have not conducted serious geological or scientific research C) Have never actually been to Antarctica.
Ships - There is also no reason that anyone in world history would circumnavigate the Antarctic circle. Anyone suggesting that one would simply chart a course around the entirety of Antarctica is CLEARLY not familiar with the ACC!! The Antarctic Circumpolar Current is the most important current in the Southern Ocean..yes, Antarctica is surrounded by an Ocean. This is the only current that flows completely around the globe. It is arguably the mightiest or roughest current of any ocean! I cannot even conceive of ANYONE being stupid enough to even attempt such a suicidal voyage. The ship required to circumnavigate such an undertaking would need to be massive, like a cruise ship and everyone on-board should presume that they are going to die.
You people speak in such abstract terms, so far removed from the reality that we live in. "Just fly across Antarctica" sure, no problem.. "Just sail around Antarctica". Strap a rocket to the back of my car and we can fly to Mars! The majority of posts here is what so heavily discredits the FE concept from being taken seriously in the scientific community.
I got bored with writing this so I will just stop here. I hope everyone enjoyed reading this. I will not be checking replies.
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Exactly lol... a lot of resistance to the theory is based on "you can go to Antarctica anytime you want! There are even guided tours!" So, my point is if any particular institution wants to finally put the Flat Earth to bed, then they can do so by flying around the "south pole" to prove it. Maybe we can get Richard Branson to do it, he seems like a pretty rad rebellious kind of guy, one who might even be open/have vested interests to proving that we actually are on a sphere, considering he has poured millions into his space plane project.
Well, people have done it by air and land
From: http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/ (http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/)
EXPEDITIONS
Ranulph Fiennes is the only man alive ever to have travelled around the Earth's circumpolar surface.
Ranulph Fiennes has led the following expeditions:
2009 - Everest Nepal Summit (Became the first person ever to summit Everest and cross both polar ice caps)
2014 - The Coldest Journey – Antarctic plateau through polar winter.
From: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigation (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigation)
TAG Global claims record for polar circumnavigation
by Charles Alcock
- December 31, 2008, 6:20 AM
TAG Group vice president Aziz Ojjeh and a team of four other pilots broke a
31-year-old speed record for a pole-to-pole circumnavigation of the globe in late November. The TransPolar08 crew circled the globe over the North and South Poles in a Bombardier Global Express, chopping 95 minutes off the record previously held by a Pan Am Boeing 747SP that made the trip in October 1977.
Then in an earlier post http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg88364#msg88364 (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg88364#msg88364) I gave some details of the route taken by Felicity Aston on her solo trek to the south pole (not by air). Here is a bit of that post:
From: http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole (http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole)
Felicity Aston Arrives at South Pole
Skier halfway in Antarctic crossing
British adventurer Felicity Aston on Tuesday reached at the South Pole, 30 days after setting out from the Antarctic coast on skis. Aston plans to rest briefly at the South Pole Research station, then continue across the continent through January.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg/718px-Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg)
by: Maximilian Dörrbecker |
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/121004024633-antarctica-01-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg)
from: Felicity Aston: Diary of a solo Antarctic crossing |
Look, these people are not out to disprove your precious flat earth,
they know it is quite and adventure to travel to the south pole, so they go there, pure and simple.
It seems, however, as though you think they are just doing it to spite your notion of a Flat Earth!
Now I'm getting suspicious of people's motives - must be catching!
Based on their reports and narrations of how they explored Antartica, it clearly appears that all of them had gone only at portions along peripheral places passing by the south pole area especially those on foot. Those who had flown over the pole, not one of them attested that they had really flown or crossed directly over the pole and came out at the other side. It seems that they had just flown pretty much along the coastal ice portions of Antartica, never directly across and over it. No one did. Like the Norwegian, Borge Ouslan, who claimed to have crossed the continent on foot, but from his narration, just the same as the others before him, he just covered a distance of 3,000 km from Berkner Is. to Scott base via the south pole, which is actually not a cross over of the continent beyond the pole towards the eastern part or mid part as seen in the global map. This is just how he traveled in 2013.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2013/dec/13/borge-ousland-how-i-crossed-antarctica
This is so because the so-called mid section of Antartica as seen in the global map is actually non-existent. In reality, this section is heading already towards the unknown place beyond the ice border portions as seen from the flat earth map. Based on historical records, attempts had been made especially before the UN expedition-prohibition ruling, but only up to about 2,700 miles by plane beyond the pole and towards this unknown place. Extreme harsh environment (extreme coldness, darkness and uncertainty) prevent them from going further. After the UN ruling, we do not really know if the controlling authorities/countries who have hidden the truth to people like us have already gone much much farther into the unknown place towards the firmament, who knows? they have all the power to do that in secrecy in the guise of the UN ruling.
Anyway, I strongly believe based on evidences and facts that there are those unknown places beyond the ice border as seen in flat earth map. What the globe earthers had actually done way back in the early centuries was to project/form the flat earth map, which came first, into a globe form as we know today. So the ice border was converged into one portion of the globe, and this is the south pole area, the Antartica. This was how the surrounding ice border was erased from the map, concealed and hidden from people until today. They've mastered the art of deception through NASA with a stylized figure/letter "T" at its middle (dare you read it backwards!!). And most people know that the master of deception is no other than SATAN. Is this coincidence or intentional....
May the truth find its way into great minds on earth, letting them stand against the deceptions of the Evil one that manifest in the lies and arrogance of cunning fools...
-
Exactly lol... a lot of resistance to the theory is based on "you can go to Antarctica anytime you want! There are even guided tours!" So, my point is if any particular institution wants to finally put the Flat Earth to bed, then they can do so by flying around the "south pole" to prove it. Maybe we can get Richard Branson to do it, he seems like a pretty rad rebellious kind of guy, one who might even be open/have vested interests to proving that we actually are on a sphere, considering he has poured millions into his space plane project.
Well, people have done it by air and land
From: http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/ (http://www.ranulphfiennes.co.uk/)
EXPEDITIONS
Ranulph Fiennes is the only man alive ever to have travelled around the Earth's circumpolar surface.
Ranulph Fiennes has led the following expeditions:
2009 - Everest Nepal Summit (Became the first person ever to summit Everest and cross both polar ice caps)
2014 - The Coldest Journey – Antarctic plateau through polar winter.
From: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigation (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2008-12-31/tag-global-claims-record-polar-circumnavigation)
TAG Global claims record for polar circumnavigation
by Charles Alcock
- December 31, 2008, 6:20 AM
TAG Group vice president Aziz Ojjeh and a team of four other pilots broke a
31-year-old speed record for a pole-to-pole circumnavigation of the globe in late November. The TransPolar08 crew circled the globe over the North and South Poles in a Bombardier Global Express, chopping 95 minutes off the record previously held by a Pan Am Boeing 747SP that made the trip in October 1977.
Then in an earlier post http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg88364#msg88364 (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg88364#msg88364) I gave some details of the route taken by Felicity Aston on her solo trek to the south pole (not by air). Here is a bit of that post:
From: http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole (http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole)
Felicity Aston Arrives at South Pole
Skier halfway in Antarctic crossing
British adventurer Felicity Aston on Tuesday reached at the South Pole, 30 days after setting out from the Antarctic coast on skis. Aston plans to rest briefly at the South Pole Research station, then continue across the continent through January.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg/718px-Map_of_the_McMurdo-South_Pole_highway.jpg)
by: Maximilian Dörrbecker |
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/121004024633-antarctica-01-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg)
from: Felicity Aston: Diary of a solo Antarctic crossing |
Look, these people are not out to disprove your precious flat earth,
they know it is quite and adventure to travel to the south pole, so they go there, pure and simple.
It seems, however, as though you think they are just doing it to spite your notion of a Flat Earth!
Now I'm getting suspicious of people's motives - must be catching!
Based on their reports and narrations of how they explored Antartica, it clearly appears that all of them had gone only at portions along peripheral places passing by the south pole area especially those on foot. Those who had flown over the pole, not one of them attested that they had really flown or crossed directly over the pole and came out at the other side. It seems that they had just flown pretty much along the coastal ice portions of Antartica, never directly across and over it. No one did. Like the Norwegian, Borge Ouslan, who claimed to have crossed the continent on foot, but from his narration, just the same as the others before him, he just covered a distance of 3,000 km from Berkner Is. to Scott base via the south pole, which is actually not a cross over of the continent beyond the pole towards the eastern part or mid part as seen in the global map. This is just how he traveled in 2013.
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2013/dec/13/borge-ousland-how-i-crossed-antarctica
This is so because the so-called mid section of Antartica as seen in the global map is actually non-existent. In reality, this section is heading already towards the unknown place beyond the ice border portions as seen from the flat earth map. Based on historical records, attempts had been made especially before the UN expedition-prohibition ruling, but only up to about 2,700 miles by plane beyond the pole and towards this unknown place. Extreme harsh environment (extreme coldness, darkness and uncertainty) prevent them from going further. After the UN ruling, we do not really know if the controlling authorities/countries who have hidden the truth to people like us have already gone much much farther into the unknown place towards the firmament, who knows? they have all the power to do that in secrecy in the guise of the UN ruling.
Anyway, I strongly believe based on evidences and facts that there are those unknown places beyond the ice border as seen in flat earth map. What the globe earthers had actually done way back in the early centuries was to project/form the flat earth map, which came first, into a globe form as we know today. So the ice border was converged into one portion of the globe, and this is the south pole area, the Antartica. This was how the surrounding ice border was erased from the map, concealed and hidden from people until today. They've mastered the art of deception through NASA with a stylized figure/letter "T" at its middle (dare you read it backwards!!). And most people know that the master of deception is no other than SATAN. Is this coincidence or intentional....
May the truth find its way into great minds on earth, letting them stand against the deceptions of the Evil one that manifest in the lies and arrogance of cunning fools...
It shows that you have no argument left when you have to imagine Satanist plots!
You might have noted that those Antarctic "treks" went through the South Pole, as in: Skier halfway in Antarctic crossing
British adventurer Felicity Aston on Tuesday reached at the South Pole, 30 days after setting out from the Antarctic coast on skis. Aston plans to rest briefly at the South Pole Research station, then continue across the continent through January.
From: Felicity Aston arrives the South Pole (http://www.outsideonline.com/1789801/felicity-aston-arrives-south-pole)
And it the actual South Pole the the Flat Earth needs to deny!
But don't worry, there are a number of other expeditions to much more remote areas, but it is far more hostile so they need to be far better supported.
But if you have to rely on Satanist plots to prop up your absolutely unsupportable map, then go for it!
Please explain the ridiculous distances your Azimuthal equidistant projection (of the Globe, I might add) shows for Southern Hemisphere intercontinental flight routes!
A Satanist plot by that terrible QANTAS I suppose!
-
@ rabinoz....
Howdy!
Thank you for replying in not-so-arrogant manner ;)... Anyway, i suggest let's discuss matters towards knowing what's really the truth of the matter....
Excuse my mentioning of an observation re NA(T)SA vis-a-vis SATAN, it's just from the posts of some flat earthers. But it does ring a bell, you know! :o. Running out of argument, it can never happen unless I've reached that point where nothing left to argue about, but the truth, nothing but the truth, but if I sense that there's still at the very least one deception left, I'll never ever run out of argument, my friend...
Well, going to your additional supposedly convincing evidence about Antarctica crossing by Felicity Aston, a British adventurer. I've checked and read your posted URL about her, but it's not complete. There's no account of her route. But as a seeker for the truth, I made my own search, and I found out that she was just like the others before and after her like the Norwegian, Borge Ouslan, in 2013. She had only crossed the continent from Ross ice shelf to Ronne ice shelf near Berkner via south pole (see this http://trekity.com/felicity-aston/) which is actually the reverse route taken by Mr. Ouslan. Nothing new and convincing. These people had not really crossed over Antarctica across and towards eastward from the south pole as shown in the global map or google globe.
As I mentioned in my last post that no one did or could do it because the center of Antarctica shown in the globe map is actually the globally projected ice border of the flat earth map. So if the truth and reality is indeed the flat earth, anyone who would attempt to cross the eastward center part of the continent (globe) beyond the pole, but with a frame of mind believing that it is just a continent, will simply be surprised or shocked why he/she appears to go into an limitless distance towards unknown hostile places. This had happened to travelers/adventurers of early expeditions in past centuries or decades. This is the very reason why Antarctica has long become a mystery. And it is my belief that to keep people from unfolding such mystery once and for all, the UN treaty had to be passed to prohibit seekers of truth from pursuing. They might have done it in bad or good faith, we've no way of knowing. If in good faith, it's for the purpose of safeguarding the firmament from being destroyed. You know, people are war prone and self-destructive in a sense. (Nuclear bombs??). If in bad faith, well, the very reason why truth seekers are discovering deceptive intents and power-driven controlling tentacles of world authorities, some known to be illuminatis, freemasons, etc....
SO THIS ANTARCTIC MYSTERY HAS REALLY CHALLENGED TRUTH SEEKERS AROUND THE WORLD TO UNCOVER AND KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS INTENTIONALLY CONCEALED AND HIDDEN ICE BORDER (SEE FLAT EARTH MAP ICE BORDER) IMMENSELY EXPANDING OUTWARD TOWARDS UNKNOWN PLACES BEYOND. If you're one of the seekers, don't be stuck up by mere lack of evidences on expeditions made by adventurers. I strongly believe no one can really do it alone or privately without govt support. I mean the cover up has to end to allow govt-supported expeditions (by air or land) worldwide to cover more miles to these unknown hostile places beyond the ice border. What if the distances to be covered are even greater that the earth's diameter? No one knows yet. Where's the firmament or the edge? Or is there really an "edge" to talk about? What if there's no edge, and everything is continuum, a realm.
Oh, I've nearly missed the map thing (Azimuthal equidistant projection of the globe). Well, to tell you frankly, the southern hemisphere routes or distances in the globe and flat earth map (Gleason) cannot be measured directly on their surfaces as they have to be measured using equidistant grids. If you do that, both have more or less the same distances, e.g. Sydney to Santiago. So it's not accurate if you measure the distances directly from point to point with straight lines. Instead you should use their respective equidistant projected grids. Generally, that of the globe has the true distances shrinked or reduced due to global projection, while that of the flat earth has the distance stretched. I hope you got it! If you don't, pls feel free to ask. I'd be willing to expound more.
May we all be enlightened of what really is going on re this flat or globe earth thing... I've been really an advocate of science academically until lately when I found out myself, using the same science knowledge/know-how, that things appear to have been manipulated and distorted. Well, this is the main reason why I'm now a truth seeker.
May the truth sets us all free!!! ;)
Kudos!
Cel
-
Now if you would fly a plane across Antarctica, you would go straight. If Earth was indeed Round you would have to do weird turns.
-
@ rabinoz....
Howdy!
Thank you for replying in not-so-arrogant manner ;)... Anyway, i suggest let's discuss matters towards knowing what's really the truth of the matter....
Excuse my mentioning of an observation re NA(T)SA vis-a-vis SATAN, it's just from the posts of some flat earthers. But it does ring a bell, you know! :o. Running out of argument, it can never happen unless I've reached that point where nothing left to argue about, but the truth, nothing but the truth, but if I sense that there's still at the very least one deception left, I'll never ever run out of argument, my friend...
Well, going to your additional supposedly convincing evidence about Antarctica crossing by Felicity Aston, a British adventurer. I've checked and read your posted URL about her, but it's not complete. There's no account of her route. But as a seeker for the truth, I made my own search, and I found out that she was just like the others before and after her like the Norwegian, Borge Ouslan, in 2013. She had only crossed the continent from Ross ice shelf to Ronne ice shelf near Berkner via south pole (see this http://trekity.com/felicity-aston/) which is actually the reverse route taken by Mr. Ouslan. Nothing new and convincing. These people had not really crossed over Antarctica across and towards eastward from the south pole as shown in the global map or google globe.
As I mentioned in my last post that no one did or could do it because the center of Antarctica shown in the globe map is actually the globally projected ice border of the flat earth map. So if the truth and reality is indeed the flat earth, anyone who would attempt to cross the eastward center part of the continent (globe) beyond the pole, but with a frame of mind believing that it is just a continent, will simply be surprised or shocked why he/she appears to go into an limitless distance towards unknown hostile places. This had happened to travelers/adventurers of early expeditions in past centuries or decades. This is the very reason why Antarctica has long become a mystery. And it is my belief that to keep people from unfolding such mystery once and for all, the UN treaty had to be passed to prohibit seekers of truth from pursuing. They might have done it in bad or good faith, we've no way of knowing. If in good faith, it's for the purpose of safeguarding the firmament from being destroyed. You know, people are war prone and self-destructive in a sense. (Nuclear bombs??). If in bad faith, well, the very reason why truth seekers are discovering deceptive intents and power-driven controlling tentacles of world authorities, some known to be illuminatis, freemasons, etc....
SO THIS ANTARCTIC MYSTERY HAS REALLY CHALLENGED TRUTH SEEKERS AROUND THE WORLD TO UNCOVER AND KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS INTENTIONALLY CONCEALED AND HIDDEN ICE BORDER (SEE FLAT EARTH MAP ICE BORDER) IMMENSELY EXPANDING OUTWARD TOWARDS UNKNOWN PLACES BEYOND. If you're one of the seekers, don't be stuck up by mere lack of evidences on expeditions made by adventurers. I strongly believe no one can really do it alone or privately without govt support. I mean the cover up has to end to allow govt-supported expeditions (by air or land) worldwide to cover more miles to these unknown hostile places beyond the ice border. What if the distances to be covered are even greater that the earth's diameter? No one knows yet. Where's the firmament or the edge? Or is there really an "edge" to talk about? What if there's no edge, and everything is continuum, a realm.
I haven't the time right now to give you the answer you deserve, but as they say in the "cooking shows": "Here's one I prepared before" - actually a bit of a post from another forum.
There have been numerous expeditions to the South Pole at 90°S 0°E, and quite a number right across Antarctica, so what else of Antarctica is left to cover?
People from Amundsen and Scott onwards have visited the actual South Geographic Pole.
The Flat Earth Society goes to great lengths to deny even the existence of the South Pole.
So PROVING that the South Pole really exists at least proves that the "Ice Wall" map, on the right, is quite impossible.
| | (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Flat_earth.png) |
But when it comes to Transantarctic Expeditions is more a case of "how many do you want?" - here are a couple:
The Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - 1955-58, Vivian Fuchs and Sir Edmund Hillary (http://www.coolantarctica.com/antarctica_video/antarctic_video_commonwealth_trans_antarctic_expedition.htm)
And if you like to watch old Kodachrome videos:
The Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - Part 1 of 5 by Simon Coggins (https://youtu.be/wQ-HmwXBF84)
The Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - Part 2 of 5 by Simon Coggins (https://youtu.be/_yRJB5nAhvE)
The Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - Part 3 of 5 by Simon Coggins (https://youtu.be/XASJLKoYyk0)
The Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - Part 4 of 5 by Simon Coggins (https://youtu.be/e58Ct84GJLw)
The Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - Part 5 of 5 by Simon Coggins (https://youtu.be/lkq7DNCly58)
| | (http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/20160712%20-%20Commonwealth%20Trans-Antarctic%20Expedition%20-%20Route_zpsmajwjrvf.jpg)
1955-58 Commonwealth Trans-Antarctic Expedition - Route |
The International Trans-Antarctica Expedition, 1989-1990 (http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/steger.html)
(http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/steger1.jpg)
The six members of the team at the geographic Pole, 12 December 1989
Is that close enough to "across Antarctica" for you?
| |
(http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/taemap1.jpg)
The International Trans-Antarctica Expedition, 1989-1990 - Route |
It's a bit hard to deny that the South Pole exists, and that is the crux of the whole matter, but there have been enough well documented treks across the more remote areas of Antarctica to prove its existence too.
Of course, some simply claim that all this is simply a fake by NASA (or someone). Not much I can do about that.
No-one can disprove a conspiracy! At that point, I bow out! But just remember that the shape of the earth has been known for millenia and th size known quite accurately for at least 1,000 years.
Oh, I've nearly missed the map thing (Azimuthal equidistant projection of the globe). Well, to tell you frankly, the southern hemisphere routes or distances in the globe and flat earth map (Gleason) cannot be measured directly on their surfaces as they have to be measured using equidistant grids. If you do that, both have more or less the same distances, e.g. Sydney to Santiago. So it's not accurate if you measure the distances directly from point to point with straight lines. Instead you should use their respective equidistant projected grids. Generally, that of the globe has the true distances shrinked or reduced due to global projection, while that of the flat earth has the distance stretched. I hope you got it! If you don't, pls feel free to ask. I'd be willing to expound more.
May we all be enlightened of what really is going on re this flat or globe earth thing... I've been really an advocate of science academically until lately when I found out myself, using the same science knowledge/know-how, that things appear to have been manipulated and distorted. Well, this is the main reason why I'm now a truth seeker.
May the truth sets us all free!!! ;)
Kudos!
Cel
On the southern hemisphere distances.
We know that projections of the globe have distortions of various sorts. There is no other option when representing the surface of a sphere on a flat surface.
But we can still have maps of limited areas (even as large as say Australia) that can be scaled with quite adequate accuracy. After all, that's what sailors did for centuries.
Now when we come to the Flat earth a map is simply is simply a small scale drawing of the layout of the continents and as such the distances between places should be able to be measured from the map again with an accuracy that is simply determined by the size of the map.
If the North Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Map is the true map of the flat earth, it is just a small replica of the Flat Erth, and we can measure distances of it just as well as on the "full sized earth".
Sorry, run out of time.
-
SORRY, MY FRIEND, RABINOZ, BUT YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND MY POINT. YOU KEEP ON SHOWING TO ME/US, THE EXPEDITIONS' ROUTES WHICH ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME OLD ROUTES YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT ALWAYS. BUT NOT ONE OF THEM GOING OR PASSING TO THE VERY CENTER OR CENTRAL SECTION OF ANTARCTICA. DID YOU UNDERSTAND? YOU KNOW WHY THEY HADN'T GONE OR PASSED TO THAT VERY AREA? SO I WILL REPEAT AGAIN AND AGAIN MY EXPLANATION. BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M AND WAS SAYING.
IT IS BECAUSE THAT AREA IS ACTUALLY THE VAST SPAN OF ICE BORDER EXTENDING BEYOND THE EDGE PORTION OF THE FLAT EARTH (THIS PORTION IS WHERE THE EXPEDITIONS' USUAL ROUTES WERE ACTUALLY MADE, YOU KNOW..) TOWARDS LIMITLESS SPAN OF ICE TOWARDS MAYBE THE FIRMAMENT OF EARTH (USE THE FLAT EARTH MAPS TO VIEW AND UNDERSTAND THIS, SEE BELOW). OR THIS VIDEO THAT WAS MADE BY ONE WHO TRIED TO MAKE A CRUDE PROJECTION OF THE GLOBE'S CONTINENT ANTARCTICA BACK TO ITS REAL FORM IN FLAT EARTH AS ICE BORDER. (SEE VIDEO BELOW AND HOW THIS GUY INDICATED ALL THE KNOWN PLACES IN THE GLOBE'S ANTARCTICA WHERE THESE EXPEDITIONS' ROUTES PASSED BY. THESE ADVENTURERS WERE ONLY PASSING BY THE EDGE PORTIONS OF THE ICE BORDER NOW DECEPTIVELY FED TO US AS ANTARCTICA. GOT IT? YEAH, THANKS. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E2HoaMEr-I
IN THE GLOBE MAP, ALL THESE VAST SPAN OF ICE ARE CONCEALED AND HIDDEN WHEN POLITICIZED SCIENTISTS / GLOBE EARTHERS MADE THE GLOBE PROJECTION OF THE FLAT EARTH MAP. SO WHEN ALL THE ICE BORDER WAS CONVERGED INTO A MERE SOUTH POLE OF THE GLOBE, IT JUST BECAME THE CENTER OF THE CONTINENT (ANTARCTICA) AND CONCEALED, BECOMING NOW A MYSTERY, A SORT OF A "BLACK HOLE" (OR WHITE HOLE, LITERALLY???? :) ). DID YOU UNDERSTAND? SO WHEN PEOPLE ATTEMPTED TO TRAVEL INTO THIS AREA, THEY'RE AMAZED AND SHOCKED WHY THEY SEEMED TO GO FARTHER AND FARTHER WITHOUT LIMIT INTO AN UNKNOWN, LIMITLESS PLACE OR SPACE... WHY? BECAUSE IN REALITY, IT IS THE VAST SPAN OF ICE BEYOND THE EDGE PORTION SURROUNDING THE CIRCULAR FLAT EARTH...
NOW YOU KNOW.... HOPE, YOU GOT MY POINT... BETTER BE OPEN-MINDED AND SEEK THE TRUTH.... BE A TRUTH SEEKER, DON'T DEPEND ON DECEPTION FED TO YOU BY POLITICIZED SCIENCE... MY FRIEND... :) WAKE UP!
-
SORRY, MY FRIEND, RABINOZ, BUT YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND MY POINT. YOU KEEP ON SHOWING TO ME/US, THE EXPEDITIONS' ROUTES WHICH ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME OLD ROUTES YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT ALWAYS. BUT NOT ONE OF THEM GOING OR PASSING TO THE VERY CENTER OR CENTRAL SECTION OF ANTARCTICA. DID YOU UNDERSTAND? YOU KNOW WHY THEY HADN'T GONE OR PASSED TO THAT VERY AREA? SO I WILL REPEAT AGAIN AND AGAIN MY EXPLANATION. BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M AND WAS SAYING.
IT IS BECAUSE THAT AREA IS ACTUALLY THE VAST SPAN OF ICE BORDER EXTENDING BEYOND THE EDGE PORTION OF THE FLAT EARTH (THIS PORTION IS WHERE THE EXPEDITIONS' USUAL ROUTES WERE ACTUALLY MADE, YOU KNOW..) TOWARDS LIMITLESS SPAN OF ICE TOWARDS MAYBE THE FIRMAMENT OF EARTH (USE THE FLAT EARTH MAPS TO VIEW AND UNDERSTAND THIS, SEE BELOW). OR THIS VIDEO THAT WAS MADE BY ONE WHO TRIED TO MAKE A CRUDE PROJECTION OF THE GLOBE'S CONTINENT ANTARCTICA BACK TO ITS REAL FORM IN FLAT EARTH AS ICE BORDER. (SEE VIDEO BELOW AND HOW THIS GUY INDICATED ALL THE KNOWN PLACES IN THE GLOBE'S ANTARCTICA WHERE THESE EXPEDITIONS' ROUTES PASSED BY. THESE ADVENTURERS WERE ONLY PASSING BY THE EDGE PORTIONS OF THE ICE BORDER NOW DECEPTIVELY FED TO US AS ANTARCTICA. GOT IT? YEAH, THANKS. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E2HoaMEr-I
IN THE GLOBE MAP, ALL THESE VAST SPAN OF ICE ARE CONCEALED AND HIDDEN WHEN POLITICIZED SCIENTISTS / GLOBE EARTHERS MADE THE GLOBE PROJECTION OF THE FLAT EARTH MAP. SO WHEN ALL THE ICE BORDER WAS CONVERGED INTO A MERE SOUTH POLE OF THE GLOBE, IT JUST BECAME THE CENTER OF THE CONTINENT (ANTARCTICA) AND CONCEALED, BECOMING NOW A MYSTERY, A SORT OF A "BLACK HOLE" (OR WHITE HOLE, LITERALLY???? :) ). DID YOU UNDERSTAND? SO WHEN PEOPLE ATTEMPTED TO TRAVEL INTO THIS AREA, THEY'RE AMAZED AND SHOCKED WHY THEY SEEMED TO GO FARTHER AND FARTHER WITHOUT LIMIT INTO AN UNKNOWN, LIMITLESS PLACE OR SPACE... WHY? BECAUSE IN REALITY, IT IS THE VAST SPAN OF ICE BEYOND THE EDGE PORTION SURROUNDING THE CIRCULAR FLAT EARTH...
NOW YOU KNOW.... HOPE, YOU GOT MY POINT... BETTER BE OPEN-MINDED AND SEEK THE TRUTH.... BE A TRUTH SEEKER, DON'T DEPEND ON DECEPTION FED TO YOU BY POLITICIZED SCIENCE... MY FRIEND... :) WAKE UP!
Stop shouting by putting everything in capitals!
No, you don't get it. The Flat Earth Society denies the existence of the South Pole. That has been proven to exist numerous times.
But, just to keep you happy, please show where these trans-Antarctica treks actually went on your "map" if that's what you call it.
Anyway what evidence do you actually have that the earth really looks like that?
Then, however do you get "30,000 miles est" for your Vendee track?
If you think a little, the claimed diameter of the Flat Earth (in the Wiki) is about 24,900 miles, so the diameter of the equator circle must be half of that, or 12,450 miles.
This makes the circumference of the equator 39,113 miles, making your 30,000 miles look ridiculous.
So it's back to the drawing board for you. What's your next guess?
You just imagine the shape of the Earth and then guess what the measurements might be. Zeteticism is one thing, but pulling stuff out of the air is not even Zetetic, just dreaming.
As I have said numerous times it doesn't matter how much you wave these conspiracy ideas around if your model can't explain the simplest of observations you're wasting your time.
I really believe that you are the brainwashed one to believe a model that can't explain the simplest observations. If you want your ideas accepted, get on with finding a model that actually works!
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Ok, if your math is really that perfect in proving a fixed distant sun (93M) and rotating/revolving globe earth, how come truth seekers are increasing exponentially in number? Why can't you prove clearly once and for all that everything fed to people about globe earth is right? Have you not wondered why 'you're bombarded with questions and arguments that you can't really address and answer? Are you that perfect or imperfectly perfect? that even if you know there's a problem somewhere, you keep on saying you're right, afraid of being embarrassed... Give proofs and arguments that cannot be debunked or disproved, if you're really dead sure that the earth is globe or flat... and people will believe... but the problem is no one can do it, that's why we endlessly go and go around the circle catching each other's tail... hehehe..
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First:
Cel, thank you for going back to capitalizing only at the beginning of sentences. That is much easier to read, I think we all appreciate it!
Second:
Ok, if your math is really that perfect in proving a fixed distant sun (93M) and rotating/revolving globe earth, how come truth seekers are increasing exponentially in number?
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png)
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I've never been to Antarctica, but my question would be how stormy/snowy/windy, would the weather be? Whether it be going straight through the center on a globe earth or trying to go as far through to find a possible Ice Wall or something of the sort. The weather would probably make it almost impossible to do wouldn't it? And even if we would fly a plane all the way through, would that even be enough to prove a globe or flat earth? That could just prove that the wall is just bigger than we thought, or the globe is actually bigger?
I'd say if I had to choose a side whether it be Flat Earth or Globe Earth, I'd have to press more towards the globe earth, though recent videos I have watched have called some question to my mind. But what I don't understand is besides the change of scientific beliefs, would the earth being flat actually be something worth hiding from all the people in the world. Or is it just to get us to stop trying to explore the world, because the flat earth theory offers a possibility of something beyond just the Antarctica? Whether that be more land, dinosaurs, Gods, aliens, the cure to cancer?
I suppose it's one of those things where unless someone does it themselves, that person will never be able to for sure know the actual truth. It's like if an infant from the USA never had a toy of a panda,never watched a video on animal planet, never was told what a panda was. They might think it's some kind of monster. Pretty much vice versa for like the American Buffalo/bison. What if both these animals would be extinct years from now? Maybe 200 years perhaps. Our ancestors might even question whether they actually existed. How would we know they they existed though? Answer that question to yourself, and then ask yourself what kind of things do we have to prove other things existed back in history?
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I've never been to Antarctica, but my question would be how stormy/snowy/windy, would the weather be? Whether it be going straight through the center on a globe earth or trying to go as far through to find a possible Ice Wall or something of the sort. The weather would probably make it almost impossible to do wouldn't it? And even if we would fly a plane all the way through, would that even be enough to prove a globe or flat earth? That could just prove that the wall is just bigger than we thought, or the globe is actually bigger?
I'd say if I had to choose a side whether it be Flat Earth or Globe Earth, I'd have to press more towards the globe earth, though recent videos I have watched have called some question to my mind. But what I don't understand is besides the change of scientific beliefs, would the earth being flat actually be something worth hiding from all the people in the world. Or is it just to get us to stop trying to explore the world, because the flat earth theory offers a possibility of something beyond just the Antarctica? Whether that be more land, dinosaurs, Gods, aliens, the cure to cancer?
I suppose it's one of those things where unless someone does it themselves, that person will never be able to for sure know the actual truth. It's like if an infant from the USA never had a toy of a panda,never watched a video on animal planet, never was told what a panda was. They might think it's some kind of monster. Pretty much vice versa for like the American Buffalo/bison. What if both these animals would be extinct years from now? Maybe 200 years perhaps. Our ancestors might even question whether they actually existed. How would we know they they existed though? Answer that question to yourself, and then ask yourself what kind of things do we have to prove other things existed back in history?
You have I suppose, read this post? Re: Has anyone ever flown a plane across Antarctica? « Reply #80 on: August 30, 2016, 04:27:50 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1247.msg102823#msg102823)
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1. Ok, if your math is really that perfect in proving a fixed distant sun (93M) and rotating/revolving globe earth, how come truth seekers are increasing exponentially in number?
2. Why can't you prove clearly once and for all that everything fed to people about globe earth is right?
3. Have you not wondered why 'you're bombarded with questions and arguments that you can't really address and answer?
4. Are you that perfect or imperfectly perfect? that even if you know there's a problem somewhere, you keep on saying you're right, afraid of being embarrassed...
5. Give proofs and arguments that cannot be debunked or disproved, if you're really dead sure that the earth is globe or flat... and people will believe... but the problem is no one can do it, that's why we endlessly go and go around the circle catching each other's tail... hehehe..
1. As requested above, please provide some kind of valid citation.
2. Why can neither you or any other FES provide any proof at all that the world is flat? All ideas proposed, which would prove a FE, are dismissed due to one impossibility or another.
3. No. Ignorant people ask questions because they don't know. Stupid people ask questions for reasons known only to them.
4. Are you not doing the same? You vehemently state you are right and all others are wrong. What makes your statement of rightness so righteous?
5. Do the same for your side of the argument. So far, looking at your posts, all you've been able to do is parrot other people (none of which offered any proof) and have provided nothing original or any where near proof of anything.
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1. Ok, if your math is really that perfect in proving a fixed distant sun (93M) and rotating/revolving globe earth, how come truth seekers are increasing exponentially in number?
2. Why can't you prove clearly once and for all that everything fed to people about globe earth is right?
3. Have you not wondered why 'you're bombarded with questions and arguments that you can't really address and answer?
4. Are you that perfect or imperfectly perfect? that even if you know there's a problem somewhere, you keep on saying you're right, afraid of being embarrassed...
5. Give proofs and arguments that cannot be debunked or disproved, if you're really dead sure that the earth is globe or flat... and people will believe... but the problem is no one can do it, that's why we endlessly go and go around the circle catching each other's tail... hehehe..
1. As requested above, please provide some kind of valid citation.
2. Why can neither you or any other FES provide any proof at all that the world is flat? All ideas proposed, which would prove a FE, are dismissed due to one impossibility or another.
3. No. Ignorant people ask questions because they don't know. Stupid people ask questions for reasons known only to them.
4. Are you not doing the same? You vehemently state you are right and all others are wrong. What makes your statement of rightness so righteous?
5. Do the same for your side of the argument. So far, looking at your posts, all you've been able to do is parrot other people (none of which offered any proof) and have provided nothing original or any where near proof of anything.
Cel hasn't posted since October 12, 2016, 11:38:54 AM. He probably thought I was a NASA agent for disproving his proof of NASA proving that they had disproven that the Earth is flat.
Or words not necessarily to that effect. Well, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
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Boooring. Do you roundies have anything to say that is not boring?
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Boooring. Do you roundies have anything to say that is not boring?
What do you expect disinterring a post I made on November 06, 2016 disinterring a post CableDawg made on November 06, 2016, disinterring a post cel made on September 08, 2016?
They must be well ripened by now!
BTW You're the "roundy"! Isn't your earth round? - a round disc! Ours is a Glorious Globe.
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Answering a post that is less than 3 months old is frowned upon now?
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Answering a post that is less than 3 months old is frowned upon now?
I thought that archeology was your game.
You seem to be stalking me. ;D Am I going to need a restraining order? ;D
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Answering a post that is less than 3 months old is frowned upon now?
I thought that archeology was your game.
You seem to be stalking me. ;D Am I going to need a restraining order? ;D
I did not know that asking a question was considered stalking. Have you ever actually looked at laws, or do you always just make up you own definitions for well understood legal terms?
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Answering a post that is less than 3 months old is frowned upon now?
I thought that archeology was your game.
You seem to be stalking me. ;D Am I going to need a restraining order? ;D
I did not know that asking a question was considered stalking. Have you ever actually looked at laws, or do you always just make up you own definitions for well understood legal terms?
I make up my own, don't you?. I find that's the best way.
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There is a new flight claiming to circle the entire world, going over both poles, flying this October:
https://www.overthepoles2018.com/
Tickets are quite reasonable, at $12,000 per person.
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If you don't trust any of the many documented expedition across antarctica, you can do the flight yourself, going by the straigthest line;
- go to the Falkland Islands
- rent a plane at Port Stanley airport
- head south
- fly over Antarctica
- according to the spheric model, after 10 000 km, you will be over the south-west of Australia. Land at either Perth or Esperance airport.
Two other teams should probably stay on ground at the departure and arrival point, to make sure the flyer one don't deviate. Of course, bring all the measure instruments you wish, and film it during the whole trip. Time also the travel all along to testify you are well flying through the ice continent and not around (don't worry, it has a perimeter of 15 000 kms, so you should notice it very fast).
Once the flat earth society will have tested itself that the antarctica is not an icewall, but a normal crossable continent, maybe they will at last dissolve and won't bother the rest of the world.
Unless there is yet an explanation with vortex, teleportation, or whatever magic.... then I'm out.
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If you don't trust any of the many documented expedition across antarctica, you can do the flight yourself, going by the straigthest line;
- go to the Falkland Islands
- rent a plane at Port Stanley airport
- head south
- fly over Antarctica
- according to the spheric model, after 10 000 km, you will be over the south-west of Australia. Land at either Perth or Esperance airport.
It is extremely unlikely that there is an airplane for rent in the Falklands with that kind of range.
These discussions about overflying the South Pole always crack me up. There are 2 very good reasons why there are no scheduled trans-Antarctic passenger flights:
1: There is no market for a city pair who's great circle route would take them over the continent.
2: Even if there were, the flight route would be unlikely to be approved for safety reasons. While airliners typically fly at or above 30,000 feet, if they lose cabin pressure, they would have to descend to 10,000 feet. in that event:
a: depending on how far along their route they were, the airplane might not have the range to get to a suitable emergency airfield at that lower altitude and
b: Antarctica has terrain at or above 10,000 feet, and there is no detailed topographical map of the entire continent, so terrain avoidance would be dicey.
None of that applies to trans Arctic flights, because there are plenty of marketable city pairs, there is no high terrain, and there are plenty of suitable divert fields at higher latitudes.
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It is extremely unlikely that there is an airplane for rent in the Falklands with that kind of range.
These discussions about overflying the South Pole always crack me up. There are 2 very good reasons why there are no scheduled trans-Antarctic passenger flights:
1: There is no market for a city pair who's great circle route would take them over the continent.
2: Even if there were, the flight route would be unlikely to be approved for safety reasons. While airliners typically fly at or above 30,000 feet, if they lose cabin pressure, they would have to descend to 10,000 feet. in that event:
a: depending on how far along their route they were, the airplane might not have the range to get to a suitable emergency airfield at that lower altitude and
b: Antarctica has terrain at or above 10,000 feet, and there is no detailed topographical map of the entire continent, so terrain avoidance would be dicey.
None of that applies to trans Arctic flights, because there are plenty of marketable city pairs, there is no high terrain, and there are plenty of suitable divert fields at higher latitudes.
The problem is that you don't believe any of the hundreds of people who travelled across antarctica, risking their own lives (notably the Commonwealth trans-antarctic expedition in the 50's, and special mention to the one French woman alpinist, Laurence de la Ferrière, who travelled solo to the South Pole in 1997). According to you, even the scientists of the three permanent bases (Amundsen-Scott, Vostok and Concordia) are either liars or huge fools for people living so far inside antarctica (about 1000 kms from the shore for each), and not able to find the edge of the "icewall". I'm simply suggesting the FES to organize themselves the trip, out of the regular commercial lines, to check it once and for all.
Of course, it is extremely risky. The only airport on the direct road between Falklands and Australia is the Marambio base, on the antarctic peninsula. Out of them, there is no place to land in case of emergency. So, it will be a one-shot trial, since no rescues may come in time in the middle of the ice desert. If a drone could fly that long, it would probably be better, but we don't have it yet (maybe some day). And yes, I suppose that you won't just present yourself at the renting service, and just tell them that you are planning to check if Antarctica is not the end of the world. First, I think you will probably have to buy directly the aircraft with the appropriate fuel tank capacity; and secondly, you'll have to lie to the control tower about your destination. But then, what's the big deal since those people are already lying to you: that's only fair game. And I'm not even sure they will stop you from doing this madness if you sign all the liability waiver papers.
That's the principle of research; you can't just sit constantly waving your arguments on the net: you have to test it on the ground. Personnally, if I could prove that the Earth is flat, and a world conspiracy is hiding it, I would totally spend the money and take the risk.
And dying in space after falling at the edge of the world would be a super awesome death, don't you think?
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The problem is that you don't believe any of the hundreds of people who travelled across antarctica
How do you get that from my post? I never said nor implied that. Of course people have travelled across the continent. That is beyond dispute. People are living at the South Pole right now.
Some FEs use the fact that thee are no scheduled south polar flight route as evidence (well, they don't like the word evidence. they like the word proof) that the South Pole doesn't exist. There are posts in this thread to that effect. My post was to debunk that silly notion and give sound, logical reasons why there are none.
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Excuse me, I was talking to the FES in general, not you specifically.
I think my post is a bit out of place; there is already posts about this idea of expedition:
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=7812.msg133741#msg133741
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8284.msg136966#msg136966
If the fact that people already flew across antarcticta is not discussed, I guess I should not post there any more.
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Hey! My daughter is planning a trip to Antarctica in the (northern) winter of 2020. If she sees 24-hour sunlight, should I consider her as the newest member of the conspiracy, or as trapped in a VR simulator somewhere?
Asking for a friend.
In all seriousness, I'm trying to find a way to go with her. If I do happen to see 24-hour sunlight, what am I to think?
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2. Why can neither you or any other FES provide any proof at all that the world is flat?
Because there isn't a need. It's not a science based model There is no science behind it. It's a believe model, and as such can't be scientifically tested. Obviously it will fail every single test.
But so does religion, and I believe in religious freedom (as long as you don't in-convince or harm others). Christians do not need scientific proof that Adam & Eva existed, or why type of snakes where around at that time. What benefit or satisfaction you get when you tell a kid that Santa doesn't exist?
BTW, Lightsail 2 (does not belong to NASA) is in a 720Km high orbit (is that withing the dome?) and did sent some images back to earth. When you look very closely (you may use a ruler) you will notice a slight curve. Could be the optic of course, those tricky mustards.
https://www.universetoday.com/142894/lightsail-2-is-sending-home-new-pictures-of-earth/
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Hey I'm kinda new here. Why are there so few threads? To me there seems to be two ways to prove the earth is round: if a plane can fly across Antarctica, then it supports the round earth.
This really depends on the flat earth model as well as the path the plane takes. There are bi-polar FE models, flat plane concepts, infinite plane concepts etc.
Things like the dome or ice wall only exist in a portion of all flat earth models.
A second way is to measure the distance traveled by a plane from Mexico to Japan, heading WEST. If the distance is greater than the distance EAST from Mexico to Japan, then it supports the flat earth. Have these things been documented ??? I don't know. Just some thoughts!
The flight time debate has been going on forever and some FE models are strengthened by these flight times/distances and some are weakened. In addition evidence has been provided which calls into question the accuracy of flight speeds and distances.
2. Why can neither you or any other FES provide any proof at all that the world is flat? All ideas proposed, which would prove a FE, are dismissed due to one impossibility or another.
When you start asking for PROOF I would argue that nothing is PROOF. There is EVIDENCE which I have found which weakens claims made in the RE model and evidence which strengthens the different FE models. If you took me up in a spaceship and showed me a spherical earth that does not PROVE that the earth is a sphere. It provides very strong evidence that my visual cortex did it's best to make an image and that the image it decided to make was a sphere. Unfortunately that's not PROOF.
The same applies to the different FE models. There is EVIDENCE but no PROOF.