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Offline beardo

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #360 on: April 03, 2014, 07:57:36 PM »
Rushing with SCV's works every time.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #361 on: April 03, 2014, 07:59:32 PM »
Rushing with SCV's works every time.

Only when I do it, though. The true secret of SCV rushing has been passed down to me by a Korean master who has dominated the field of Starcraft for over 200 years.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #362 on: April 04, 2014, 04:08:54 AM »
So you're saying a strategy that would win a game normally, wouldn't win if it was picked at random instead. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.  ::)

A strategy picked at random would never win against a strategy that actively adapts to its opponent.

But there's nothing stopping the random strategy from being exactly same as the one where the player has actively adapted to their opponent.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #363 on: April 04, 2014, 04:23:35 AM »
But there's nothing stopping the random strategy from being exactly same as the one where the player has actively adapted to their opponent.

If this were true, then I suggest you provide evidence of it. This will be the third time I've asked, and probably the third time you'll gloss over it.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #364 on: April 04, 2014, 04:26:12 AM »
But there's nothing stopping the random strategy from being exactly same as the one where the player has actively adapted to their opponent.

If this were true, then I suggest you provide evidence of it. This will be the third time I've asked, and probably the third time you'll gloss over it.

But why wouldn't it be true? If a winning game can be reduced to a series of button clicks, then why wouldn't that same sequence of clicks be able to win as well? Even if the AI adapts differently (again, unlikely), we would still have infinitely many attempts.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #365 on: April 04, 2014, 04:31:05 AM »
But why wouldn't it be true? If a winning game can be reduced to a series of button clicks, then why wouldn't that same sequence of clicks be able to win as well? Even if the AI adapts differently (again, unlikely), we would still have infinitely many attempts.

It's not true because you have no evidence for it. If you pick a random strategy to use against an opponent in StarCraft, you will always lose. That's a pretty easily falsifiable statement. All you have to do is compile a list of all possible button clicks and then pick from that list randomly, then proceed to win a game of StarCraft against another player or AI. If you can't do that, then why bother making the assumption that you can? You're just arguing a straw man at this point.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #366 on: April 04, 2014, 04:36:42 AM »
But why wouldn't it be true? If a winning game can be reduced to a series of button clicks, then why wouldn't that same sequence of clicks be able to win as well? Even if the AI adapts differently (again, unlikely), we would still have infinitely many attempts.

It's not true because you have no evidence for it. If you pick a random strategy to use against an opponent in StarCraft, you will always lose. That's a pretty easily falsifiable statement. All you have to do is compile a list of all possible button clicks and then pick from that list randomly, then proceed to win a game of StarCraft against another player or AI. If you can't do that, then why bother making the assumption that you can? You're just arguing a straw man at this point.

You didn't answer my question.

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If a winning game can be reduced to a series of button clicks, then why wouldn't that same sequence of clicks be able to win as well?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #367 on: April 04, 2014, 04:41:11 AM »
You didn't answer my question.

I see you also ignored my point.

If a winning game can be reduced to a series of button clicks, then why wouldn't that same sequence of clicks be able to win as well?

There is no "winning game."

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #368 on: April 04, 2014, 04:41:57 AM »
You can't win games in Starcraft. Okay.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #369 on: April 04, 2014, 04:45:37 AM »
You can't win games in Starcraft. Okay.

Not in the fashion you have described up to this point. Trial and error does not win you any games in StarCraft. You must intelligently pick a strategy to win, unlike "thinking not required" Dark Souls. The same strategy will always eventually win.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #370 on: April 04, 2014, 04:55:02 AM »
You can't win games in Starcraft. Okay.

Not in the fashion you have described up to this point. Trial and error does not win you any games in StarCraft. You must intelligently pick a strategy to win, unlike "thinking not required" Dark Souls. The same strategy will always eventually win.

Would rushing with SCVs not win any games in Starcraft?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #371 on: April 04, 2014, 05:01:27 AM »
Would rushing with SCVs not win any games in Starcraft?

Only when I do it, though. The true secret of SCV rushing has been passed down to me by a Korean master who has dominated the field of Starcraft for over 200 years.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #372 on: April 04, 2014, 05:10:47 AM »
What about rushing with anything else? Would that not win any games?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #373 on: April 04, 2014, 05:17:25 AM »
What about rushing with anything else? Would that not win any games?

That would depend on who I'm playing. I change strategies based on my opponent in Starcraft. I don't need to do that in Dark Souls. Dodge/stab beats everything, including other players, unless they can dodge/stab better than I can. Then its just a game of twitch fighting. Quite droll.

Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #374 on: April 04, 2014, 05:20:57 AM »
It's okay, we have infinite attempts, remember? So let's take a zerg rush for instance, would that not ever win a game?

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Offline beardo

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #375 on: April 04, 2014, 05:29:48 AM »
If you get six Zerglings up in less than a minute and you know where your opponent is by scouting with an Overlord, and if your opponent sucks at micro'ing every match, yes you'd win. Might even win against the A.I. most of the time.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 05:33:44 AM by beardo »
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #376 on: April 04, 2014, 05:32:59 AM »
Well, that's convenient. I guess we don't even need to randomise anything to win matches.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #377 on: April 04, 2014, 05:34:51 AM »
This is of course if the map is small enough for the Zerglings to reach the enemy base and kill all the workers fast enough. Would be harder to pull off on a large map with several starting locations unless they're right fucking next to you.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #378 on: April 04, 2014, 05:37:38 AM »
It's fine, we have infinite attempts. Though it doesn't sound like we'd need that many.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Dark Souls
« Reply #379 on: April 04, 2014, 05:38:27 AM »
Of course, if you're Rushy, you'd probably just rush with Drones.
The Mastery.