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Offline QED

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Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« on: October 30, 2018, 03:26:27 PM »
My apologies if this has already been covered, but this thought just occurred to me.

I have been to the southern hemisphere (Australia if you are wondering). I noticed that the night sky is remarkably different than what I see in the northern hemisphere. This makes sense in a RE model - since you are looking in opposite directions with the round Earth occluding your view.

But how can this be explained in a FE model? Shouldn't everyone on a FE see the same night sky? We are all looking in the same direction, after all: UP!
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

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We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 07:24:23 PM »
The two trains of thought on this are as follows:

- The perspective lines meet in the distance and the "seeing forever" idea is only a theoretical one.

- Others believe that light curves upwards to limit our vision.

Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 07:47:27 PM »
- Others believe that light curves upwards to limit our vision.

How does light curving upwards explain that the three locations can see the same constellation, Octans, towards South?

Where does Earth Not a Globe say that all beliefs contrary to the Scriptures are necessarily wrong?  ???

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 08:28:05 PM »
- Others believe that light curves upwards to limit our vision.

How does light curving upwards explain that the three locations can see the same constellation, Octans, towards South?

https://i.imgur.com/67XcWVH.jpg

I don't believe that is the Flat Earth model. The Zetetic societies moved on to the bi-polar model when the South Pole was discovered.

As for why Shenton used the monopole when he rebooted it as The Flat Earth Society, who knows? I can only assume it is because the work of the Zetetic socities was lost sometime over the two world wars. Most of it is still undigitized.

The Zetetic societies have been the only Flat Earth groups to have an actual budget, so I will defer to them.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 08:52:58 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 08:48:58 PM »
The Zetetic societies moved on to the bi-polar model when the South Pole was discovered.

You mean this:



You realize it makes everything worse, right? The small amount of explanations Flat Earthers provided to make sense of their old map just fly out the window.
Where does Earth Not a Globe say that all beliefs contrary to the Scriptures are necessarily wrong?  ???

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2018, 09:04:45 PM »
The Zetetic societies moved on to the bi-polar model when the South Pole was discovered.

You mean this:

You realize it makes everything worse, right? The small amount of explanations Flat Earthers provided to make sense of their old map just fly out the window.

Yes, that's the model, except with a disclaimer that the particular map layout illustrated is only an example map and has not been vetted.

Here is a video on the subject:



While this author blatantly stole this model from the old Zetetic Society, and it is not "new" at all, and has been discussed on the forums and depicted on our website for years, he does some service by providing some commentary and explanation on the matter.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:17:39 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline QED

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Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2018, 09:09:46 PM »
The two trains of thought on this are as follows:

- The perspective lines meet in the distance and the "seeing forever" idea is only a theoretical one.

- Others believe that light curves upwards to limit our vision.

The "lines" are perpendicular to the observers' line of sight. So I do not see how they can "meet." If I throw a ball due south, I will see it cross the horizon due south (whether FE or RE), yes? If you stand 100 feet west of me, then you will see the ball leave my hands east of you, and it will cross the horizon east of you. The relation is \theta=arctan(distance from me/distance to horizon).

So, if we are separated by 1 mile, and assuming it is 3 miles to the horizon (a decent zetetic approximation), then \theta=18.4 degrees.

I see the ball vanish directly in front of me. You see the ball vanish 18.4 degrees east of south (from your view). I do not see how anything "meets" here. Notice, this calculation assumes a flat Earth with zetetic observations of vanishing distance.     

"Others believe that light curves upwards to limit our vision."

Okay, where is the evidence for this claim?

Note: if you assume a UA, it is actually possible to substantiate this theoretically. But I challenge you to do so correctly.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 09:16:24 PM »
Yes, that's the model, except with a disclaimer that the particular map layout illustrated is only an example map and has not been vetted.

Seriously Tom. I know you're in there. You're going to tell me that a globe is too fabricated to match simple empiricism, but this bi-polar stuff makes sense?
Where does Earth Not a Globe say that all beliefs contrary to the Scriptures are necessarily wrong?  ???

LoveScience

Re: Different Night Skies in Different Hemispheres
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 01:43:32 PM »
Try this approach. Assume for the moment that the Earth is spherical, regardless of whether you believe it is or not. Now imagine another sphere, lets call it the celestial sphere, concentric with the Earth and place all the visible stars onto what would effectively be the inside surface of this celestial (and imaginary) sphere. Ignore for the moment any consideration of stellar distance as that is irrelevant until later. We can assume that all the stars are infinitely far away.

The north pole of the Earth projects onto the celestial sphere to produce the North Celestial Pole. Likewise for the South Pole. Then project the lines of latitude on to the celestial sphere so that they become declination and every 15degrees of longitude become Right Ascension respectively. The celestial sphere rotates at 15deg per hour so the stars appear to move westwards at a rate of 15 degrees her hour.

Now ask yourself, does this model agree or disagree with what we see and watch in the night sky?  Would it make any difference if there was no atmosphere surrounding the Earth. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 01:51:39 PM by LoveScience »