"Government buyout of SpaceX".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png)
Under a $1.6 billion contract with NASA, SpaceX will fly numerous cargo resupply missions to the ISS...
Those contracts are the very thing that make it impossible for there to be a conspiracy. NASA's . NASA would have to tell its contractors that the earth was actually flat, because they would figure out if something was amiss anyway, but they have no control over the structure and management within the contractors."Government buyout of SpaceX".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png)
http://www.spacex.com/about (http://www.spacex.com/about)QuoteUnder a $1.6 billion contract with NASA, SpaceX will fly numerous cargo resupply missions to the ISS...
The same way the government gets Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Lockheed Martin under their control: Gigantic government contracts
Those contracts are the very thing that make it impossible for there to be a conspiracy. NASA's . NASA would have to tell its contractors that the earth was actually flat, because they would figure out if something was amiss anyway, but they have no control over the structure and management within the contractors."Government buyout of SpaceX".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png)
http://www.spacex.com/about (http://www.spacex.com/about)QuoteUnder a $1.6 billion contract with NASA, SpaceX will fly numerous cargo resupply missions to the ISS...
The same way the government gets Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Lockheed Martin under their control: Gigantic government contracts
Wake up already. There is no hoax, NASA is not corrupt, and the earth is not flat. You can argue all you want, but you can't change those facts.
Really? a shill because I only found this place a few days ago?? A shill because I decided to open with a question that has been bugging me? I am attempting to be open to your idea? A question? I purposed with respect? Don't you think that is a bit ridiculous?
8n
Also accusing me of hypocritically being open minded?? Did you not read what I do for a living? If people even got wind of me taking the slightlist interest into this, I would be blacklisted in bankruptcy. So to even tiny bit risk that would certainly show I look for truth at any corner until that corner has dried up or shows to be promising .
I agree about the pull of the freemason power in the elite. It's their own little club house. One point of my question was what about people like me whom certainly is not a mason? Just the short list of the stuff I provided that makes me wonder how it can be pulled off.
Also fyi, space x is still a private company... It is not "owned" by NASA. They are just intertwined together now and heavily funded by NASA. They are "owned" but still "private"
So, all the universities that have satellites in orbit are in on it too?Those contracts are the very thing that make it impossible for there to be a conspiracy. NASA's . NASA would have to tell its contractors that the earth was actually flat, because they would figure out if something was amiss anyway, but they have no control over the structure and management within the contractors."Government buyout of SpaceX".
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Webcomic_xkcd_-_Wikipedian_protester.png)
http://www.spacex.com/about (http://www.spacex.com/about)QuoteUnder a $1.6 billion contract with NASA, SpaceX will fly numerous cargo resupply missions to the ISS...
The same way the government gets Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Lockheed Martin under their control: Gigantic government contracts
Wake up already. There is no hoax, NASA is not corrupt, and the earth is not flat. You can argue all you want, but you can't change those facts.
No... that contract doesn't prove there is no conspiracy. If NASA would've never intervened, and allowed SpaceX to continue on in their independent quest for space travel, then that would prove there is no conspiracy.
I don't want to argue. You certainly do, but just because you accept something as a fact doesn't mean anyone else has to. Don't you have a toy rocket to build or something?
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
I am of the opinion that the FES and this website is just a "spoof". And from what I have heard I don't think I'm alone. LOLTalking about spoofs, look up "Leo Ferrari" in the Wiki here and then do a careful search on Google for references to the video "In Search of the Edge" and "the Disappearance of Andrea Barnes". Things are not always what they seem at first sight!
That is why I don't take any thing from the flat earthers seriously.
I'd like to come in and say that there is multitudes of scripture that describes the earth as being flat.You might find that there are millions that do not see things your way. I'm no authority, but have a look at:
The flat-earth myth and creationismfrom : The Flat Earth Myth and Creationism (http://creation.com/the-flat-earth-myth-and-creationism).
The idea that Christians once commonly believed in a flat earth for theological reasons is a myth. The story was invented to promote the claim that Christians have widely resisted scientific advancement due to doctrinal constraints. A major motivating factor behind propagating this myth has been to bolster the Darwinian worldview and to further the goal of displacing the biblical worldview. No evidence exists to support the common claim that scientists were once persecuted for opposing the flat-earth belief or advocating the spherical earth view, which has been commonly accepted for millennia.
Also I'd like to say that I'm not exactly a flat earther either, just that the round earth theory doesn't completely eliminate all doubt as is generally accepted.Sometimes I wonder if all these "youngsters" (well some not quite!) were around what the first satellite was launched (yes I remember the date well Oct 4, 1957) and watched as radio HAMS picked up the "Sputnik beep" coming in right on time on 20.007 MHz?
Also, I do believe that the Apollo missions were faked and there is more than enough evidence and motive for that to be the case.
As far as you telling us that you supply parts for satellites, we can only take your word for it with a grain of salt. I'm sure you don't want to provide any credentials for threat of the aforementioned ostracism and financial consequences. But unless you do you're just another person on the internet being able to say whatever you want.Frankly I wouldn't put that much value on what you say! You brand any theory you don't like as fake.
"There is tons of flat earth proof in the Bible"Not much I can do to help, but you should realise is that 135,000 ft sounds high, but is still only 0.32% of the earth's diameter. That is the equivalent of a 7 thou (0.007") bump on a billiard ball - that does not sound a lot.
Also if there are any SERIOUS members whom really want to look at the world from a birds eye, I am willing to donate the parts I can for a "small" 3 stage "hold 25 kg payload" (this depends what fuel source that will be used, and that depends on what favors I can cash in and what they have, I can get smaller amounts of any fuel, however start getting bigger quantities, and things get exceedingly difficult) and help with the design. Also willing to donate financially to the cause and open up my facilities for the build (would like to put my company name on it, I will just keep it quiet why it's being built ha ha). From stuff I can't provide and fuel there would prob be a 40k financial deficit. I can help with some of that on top of what I offered prior. There will be some red tape, will have to prove it is not capable of orbit, flight path, design, and more than likely an official will monitor the launch after approval. Breaking high orbit would end all doubt I "think".
I know this is a LOONG shot to find a group this serious about seeing what's out there, but if there is, I will see it out to the end with them. Truth is something I am very serious about obviously. Though a line of site ground control and live monitoring system (for cameras, ect) would be something i need a little help with. That is stuff I am not the most knowledgeable on.
However, the sounding balloons is stuff I already have and can be done ASAP. My whole point is I want to help, and I get carried away once on a mission just like I do on my post. Sigh ...I apologize.
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Also accusing me of hypocritically being open minded?? Did you not read what I do for a living? If people even got wind of me taking the slightlist interest into this, I would be blacklisted in bankruptcy. So to even tiny bit risk that would certainly show I look for truth at any corner until that corner has dried up or shows to be promising .Let me get this straight.....
This is priceless:Also accusing me of hypocritically being open minded?? Did you not read what I do for a living? If people even got wind of me taking the slightlist interest into this, I would be blacklisted in bankruptcy. So to even tiny bit risk that would certainly show I look for truth at any corner until that corner has dried up or shows to be promising .Let me get this straight.....
You work for folks who would blacklist you into bankruptcy for showing the slightest interest into this..... that sounds extreme.
Yet you are asking how a conspiracy can occur.......??
The world needs people like you to keep it turning!!
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Please post your scripture that says the earth is round. I will reply with the litany of scripture stating otherwise if you can.
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Please post your scripture that says the earth is round. I will reply with the litany of scripture stating otherwise if you can.
I am no Bible Scholar but I have heard that "Circle" can be translated as "Round" or "Sphere". Isaaiah 40:22.
And where are the four corners of your flat earth?Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Please post your scripture that says the earth is round. I will reply with the litany of scripture stating otherwise if you can.
I am no Bible Scholar but I have heard that "Circle" can be translated as "Round" or "Sphere". Isaaiah 40:22.
It could be, but it has become clear that the word used there in the Hebrew is more likened to the verb "encircle."
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4719.msg92289#msg92289 (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4719.msg92289#msg92289)
One major scripture I left out in that post was
Matthew 4:8 - Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Something that wouldn't be possible on a spherical earth, which if nothing else shows that even those first century authors viewed the earth as flat.
There is plenty of scripture about "the four corners" of the Earth. Where are the corners on a globe?
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Please post your scripture that says the earth is round. I will reply with the litany of scripture stating otherwise if you can.
I am no Bible Scholar but I have heard that "Circle" can be translated as "Round" or "Sphere". Isaaiah 40:22.
It could be, but it has become clear that the word used there in the Hebrew is more likened to the verb "encircle."
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4719.msg92289#msg92289
One major scripture I left out in that post was
Matthew 4:8 - Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
Something that wouldn't be possible on a spherical earth, which if nothing else shows that even those first century authors viewed the earth as flat.
There is plenty of scripture about "the four corners" of the Earth. Where are the corners on a globe?
Yes I have ran across many of these "arguments " and "facts" along you tube which is where I first found this theory. I was actually shocked that flat earth was still a thing. My theory when first hearing it, the theory is so crazy either it's true and we have stumbled across an awakening. Or it is the ultimate troll test. This is why I decided to actually come to forums to see if I could find itelligent people on their theory to help me understand it's possibility. The YouTube arguments was doing them no justice, basically either saying it's all a lie with no substance to support the claims. Or saying God said so. Which I believe Yahweh and Yehushua to be the ultimate truth, yet I don't use that in arguments of this nature. Not to mention there is nothing in the Bible that says the earth is flat, and actually things that elude to a globe.
So far it is seeming this is a troll movement. I am trying to prove otherwise with little avail
However, someone did say that satalites was actually allowed in this model which would explain where my parts went and the things I have seen personally. Yet that opens up a whole other box of questions. What are they "orbiting" and how do they maintain altitude as well as flight path since there will be no sling shot effect. The fuel they take up with them would barely keep them on target and in flight for a day. I am awaiting a response perhaps I will be surprised.
You sound a lot like me. I first heard of this theory on YouTube and the arguments they used didnt sound all that valid so I came to the other site first and found this. I believe the Bible is true but the Bible doesn't say that the earth is flat and in fact if anything it says its round. BTW I also call Jesus Yeshua and in prayer I call God Yehovah.
Please post your scripture that says the earth is round. I will reply with the litany of scripture stating otherwise if you can.
Simple fact if it would have been important, Christ would have said "Verily I say to you, If any should say the world is a spinning ball, rebuke them for the truth is not in them" OR " Verily I say go you, when 1988 years pass from now and the flat earth society is erected, my Name will be involved. I say to you now, the truth is not with them". Neither of these exist."The sky is blue." and "Water is wet."
What possibility could have an end game so rewarding to be worth this much trouble, not to mention be pulled off so well?The premise of your question is entirely wrong.
The premise of your question is entirely wrong.
It is NOT much trouble at all to keep the gag going.
Who is having trouble?!?
I have stated many times before that these must be taken in context, as well if it is metaphorical or not. I have explained this, however will not again, as I have learned people don't read long post.
Also there are sections in Job speaking of earth being a sphere held up by nothing, place in Isaiah and a few others. Simple fact the Bible didn't really care. Plus translation is always an issue especially the Hebrew text, I have spent years studying it and it's the most ass backwards(literally and figuratively) sound it out language, leaves much room for error.
Simple fact if it would have been important, Christ would have said "Verily I say to you, If any should say the world is a spinning ball, rebuke them for the truth is not in them" OR " Verily I say go you, when 1988 years pass from now and the flat earth society is erected, my Name will be involved. I say to you now, the truth is not with them". Neither of these exist.
I have stated many times before that these must be taken in context, as well if it is metaphorical or not. I have explained this, however will not again, as I have learned people don't read long post.
Also there are sections in Job speaking of earth being a sphere held up by nothing, place in Isaiah and a few others. Simple fact the Bible didn't really care. Plus translation is always an issue especially the Hebrew text, I have spent years studying it and it's the most ass backwards(literally and figuratively) sound it out language, leaves much room for error.
Simple fact if it would have been important, Christ would have said "Verily I say to you, If any should say the world is a spinning ball, rebuke them for the truth is not in them" OR " Verily I say go you, when 1988 years pass from now and the flat earth society is erected, my Name will be involved. I say to you now, the truth is not with them". Neither of these exist.
Of course, it is all metaphorical. There really is no historical context to the bible, things didn't literally happen. Staffs weren't turned into snakes in Egypt... the Red Sea didn't part. However, it is understood that the authors, through divine inspiration, describe the World as flat, stationary and fixed in the universe.
The reason why it DOES matter, and IS important, is that we're being conditioned to accept present day cosmogony-- that a big bang occurred, life emerged through primordial soup, humankind evolved from a fish and then an ape-- as incontrovertible truth. We're being conditioned to accept that humanity itself, and each and every one of us, is the product of a happy accident, on a spinning ball, in a expanding universe full of spinning balls. We're being taught that we are insignificant amalgamations of dust on an insignificant amalgamation of dust, and that our existence itself is a strictly material, fleeting thing.
I don't believe you prescribe to that. Science has long been tending towards obfuscation, rather than enlightenment. There are metaphysical aspects of our existence that science has yet to be able to understand, or blatantly unwilling to understand. Science pretends to be a study of our natural world and our physical universe, but at all turns it seeks to remove God from the equation. Creation of our universe as an obvious example, origin of life as another. The accepted dogma of the big bang and evolution are faith-based pseudoscience at best, out right manipulation at worst.
Anything that confirms or pushes the agenda that life is nothing more than coincidental, meaningless, and strictly materialistic is to be examined and taken with a grain of salt. The fact that it is being taught as fact to our children is obvious evidence of a malevolent apparatus in control of our world. Our fears and prejudices are used against us, and we are distracted by shiny flashy material things with the implication what life is about. We are being divided in each and every way imaginable, causing hatred between neighbors. A wedge is constantly being driven between us and God, and in effect the truth of our existence.
A Godless society is easier to prey upon and manipulate. The adage resonates with me, "if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."
I have stated many times before that these must be taken in context, as well if it is metaphorical or not. I have explained this, however will not again, as I have learned people don't read long post.
Also there are sections in Job speaking of earth being a sphere held up by nothing, place in Isaiah and a few others. Simple fact the Bible didn't really care. Plus translation is always an issue especially the Hebrew text, I have spent years studying it and it's the most ass backwards(literally and figuratively) sound it out language, leaves much room for error.
Simple fact if it would have been important, Christ would have said "Verily I say to you, If any should say the world is a spinning ball, rebuke them for the truth is not in them" OR " Verily I say go you, when 1988 years pass from now and the flat earth society is erected, my Name will be involved. I say to you now, the truth is not with them". Neither of these exist.
Of course, it is all metaphorical. There really is no historical context to the bible, things didn't literally happen. Staffs weren't turned into snakes in Egypt... the Red Sea didn't part. However, it is understood that the authors, through divine inspiration, describe the World as flat, stationary and fixed in the universe.
The reason why it DOES matter, and IS important, is that we're being conditioned to accept present day cosmogony-- that a big bang occurred, life emerged through primordial soup, humankind evolved from a fish and then an ape-- as incontrovertible truth. We're being conditioned to accept that humanity itself, and each and every one of us, is the product of a happy accident, on a spinning ball, in a expanding universe full of spinning balls. We're being taught that we are insignificant amalgamations of dust on an insignificant amalgamation of dust, and that our existence itself is a strictly material, fleeting thing.
I don't believe you prescribe to that. Science has long been tending towards obfuscation, rather than enlightenment. There are metaphysical aspects of our existence that science has yet to be able to understand, or blatantly unwilling to understand. Science pretends to be a study of our natural world and our physical universe, but at all turns it seeks to remove God from the equation. Creation of our universe as an obvious example, origin of life as another. The accepted dogma of the big bang and evolution are faith-based pseudoscience at best, out right manipulation at worst.
Anything that confirms or pushes the agenda that life is nothing more than coincidental, meaningless, and strictly materialistic is to be examined and taken with a grain of salt. The fact that it is being taught as fact to our children is obvious evidence of a malevolent apparatus in control of our world. Our fears and prejudices are used against us, and we are distracted by shiny flashy material things with the implication what life is about. We are being divided in each and every way imaginable, causing hatred between neighbors. A wedge is constantly being driven between us and God, and in effect the truth of our existence.
A Godless society is easier to prey upon and manipulate. The adage resonates with me, "if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."
I have stated many times before that these must be taken in context, as well if it is metaphorical or not. I have explained this, however will not again, as I have learned people don't read long post.
Also there are sections in Job speaking of earth being a sphere held up by nothing, place in Isaiah and a few others. Simple fact the Bible didn't really care. Plus translation is always an issue especially the Hebrew text, I have spent years studying it and it's the most ass backwards(literally and figuratively) sound it out language, leaves much room for error.
Simple fact if it would have been important, Christ would have said "Verily I say to you, If any should say the world is a spinning ball, rebuke them for the truth is not in them" OR " Verily I say go you, when 1988 years pass from now and the flat earth society is erected, my Name will be involved. I say to you now, the truth is not with them". Neither of these exist.
Of course, it is all metaphorical. There really is no historical context to the bible, things didn't literally happen. Staffs weren't turned into snakes in Egypt... the Red Sea didn't part. However, it is understood that the authors, through divine inspiration, describe the World as flat, stationary and fixed in the universe.
The reason why it DOES matter, and IS important, is that we're being conditioned to accept present day cosmogony-- that a big bang occurred, life emerged through primordial soup, humankind evolved from a fish and then an ape-- as incontrovertible truth. We're being conditioned to accept that humanity itself, and each and every one of us, is the product of a happy accident, on a spinning ball, in a expanding universe full of spinning balls. We're being taught that we are insignificant amalgamations of dust on an insignificant amalgamation of dust, and that our existence itself is a strictly material, fleeting thing.
I don't believe you prescribe to that. Science has long been tending towards obfuscation, rather than enlightenment. There are metaphysical aspects of our existence that science has yet to be able to understand, or blatantly unwilling to understand. Science pretends to be a study of our natural world and our physical universe, but at all turns it seeks to remove God from the equation. Creation of our universe as an obvious example, origin of life as another. The accepted dogma of the big bang and evolution are faith-based pseudoscience at best, out right manipulation at worst.
Anything that confirms or pushes the agenda that life is nothing more than coincidental, meaningless, and strictly materialistic is to be examined and taken with a grain of salt. The fact that it is being taught as fact to our children is obvious evidence of a malevolent apparatus in control of our world. Our fears and prejudices are used against us, and we are distracted by shiny flashy material things with the implication what life is about. We are being divided in each and every way imaginable, causing hatred between neighbors. A wedge is constantly being driven between us and God, and in effect the truth of our existence.
A Godless society is easier to prey upon and manipulate. The adage resonates with me, "if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."
I have stated many times before that these must be taken in context, as well if it is metaphorical or not. I have explained this, however will not again, as I have learned people don't read long post.
Also there are sections in Job speaking of earth being a sphere held up by nothing, place in Isaiah and a few others. Simple fact the Bible didn't really care. Plus translation is always an issue especially the Hebrew text, I have spent years studying it and it's the most ass backwards(literally and figuratively) sound it out language, leaves much room for error.
Simple fact if it would have been important, Christ would have said "Verily I say to you, If any should say the world is a spinning ball, rebuke them for the truth is not in them" OR " Verily I say go you, when 1988 years pass from now and the flat earth society is erected, my Name will be involved. I say to you now, the truth is not with them". Neither of these exist.
Of course, it is all metaphorical. There really is no historical context to the bible, things didn't literally happen. Staffs weren't turned into snakes in Egypt... the Red Sea didn't part. However, it is understood that the authors, through divine inspiration, describe the World as flat, stationary and fixed in the universe.
The reason why it DOES matter, and IS important, is that we're being conditioned to accept present day cosmogony-- that a big bang occurred, life emerged through primordial soup, humankind evolved from a fish and then an ape-- as incontrovertible truth. We're being conditioned to accept that humanity itself, and each and every one of us, is the product of a happy accident, on a spinning ball, in a expanding universe full of spinning balls. We're being taught that we are insignificant amalgamations of dust on an insignificant amalgamation of dust, and that our existence itself is a strictly material, fleeting thing.
I don't believe you prescribe to that. Science has long been tending towards obfuscation, rather than enlightenment. There are metaphysical aspects of our existence that science has yet to be able to understand, or blatantly unwilling to understand. Science pretends to be a study of our natural world and our physical universe, but at all turns it seeks to remove God from the equation. Creation of our universe as an obvious example, origin of life as another. The accepted dogma of the big bang and evolution are faith-based pseudoscience at best, out right manipulation at worst.
Anything that confirms or pushes the agenda that life is nothing more than coincidental, meaningless, and strictly materialistic is to be examined and taken with a grain of salt. The fact that it is being taught as fact to our children is obvious evidence of a malevolent apparatus in control of our world. Our fears and prejudices are used against us, and we are distracted by shiny flashy material things with the implication what life is about. We are being divided in each and every way imaginable, causing hatred between neighbors. A wedge is constantly being driven between us and God, and in effect the truth of our existence.
A Godless society is easier to prey upon and manipulate. The adage resonates with me, "if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."
This I can 100 percent absolutely agree with you. Every stage of our history God has tried to be deleted. Oppression has always been attempted, with holding of knowledge, freedom of thought and "dumbing" down. There has always been groups that have tried this, succeeded to an extend, yet thanks to the fact a few voices trying to take over could eventually be stopped it could never 100 percent florish. Thanks to just the sheer mechanics of the few versus the many, the law of averages would always prevail.
However, now thanks to technology, one voice has the power to reach all. It has given those whom wish us the worst the power to succeed, and they are marvellously. It has been happening for generations, however it's the fact they begin their attack basically as soon as we escape the womb.
Preventing freedom of thought, expression, knowledge, originality equals slavery and our demise. This is known by the ones whom are truly in power, the people whom control the governments that are nothing but shadows and rumors. Removal of God is always the first step, the governments and people in power step in to insert themselves as the new god. Look how the majority view science and government as god. Everything said is "fact" and there is no questioning it. Freedom of thought is lost, creativity, critical thinking and the entire sense of self is gone...you are just part of the machine.
This is no secret and has been attempted since the beginning of humans time. Yet this is the only time in history I could think they have an actual chance to accomplish and sustain it this time.
Whose side are you on, babyhighspeed? There are no shadow people controlling the governments. Sure, they can be infuriating and boring and inefficient, but that only serves to prove how mundane they are. There is no conspiracy. Especially not one concerning NASA.
I don't care about agenda or sides...only truth. Between every extreme the truth exist.
I think majority of "religion" is fueled by greed, power, agenda, and self interest. Just a form of control just like many forms of government control. However I believe in Yahweh and Yehushua as the ultimate truth. Some would say that is contradictory.
Flat earth...do I believe it flat, I feel it's highly unlikely.
However, are these people reaching out because they feel there is something wrong and somebody is hiding something..yes. I just don't like putting things in a box of this group, that group. It's all about the search for truth for me, and usually that truth is never fully in each group because everyone tends to push for their own agenda. Usually the truth is in the outskirts somewhere, in the middle of many agendas.
Even this movement, is there errors there? Too many to count, yet it is people at least trying to think for themselves, yet look at the amount of hate generated towards them (yes I know flat earthers act like 3 year olds at times), yet they aren't hurting anyone.. Yet they are treated like cancer by most.
This is cult mentality, not acceptance of different views or respect of the fellow man.
Well going down the list of your replies in order.,I don't care about agenda or sides...only truth. Between every extreme the truth exist.
That's only statistically likely, but not true in the sense that it follows from reason. There is no rule that says the universe cannot be extreme.I think majority of "religion" is fueled by greed, power, agenda, and self interest. Just a form of control just like many forms of government control. However I believe in Yahweh and Yehushua as the ultimate truth. Some would say that is contradictory.
I suppose that depends on your definition of "ultimate truth". Belief in a highest being isn't irrational, though many specific claims about such beings are.Flat earth...do I believe it flat, I feel it's highly unlikely.
What do you mean you "believe" it flat? The word is very poorly defined when it comes to opinions about empirical reality.However, are these people reaching out because they feel there is something wrong and somebody is hiding something..yes. I just don't like putting things in a box of this group, that group. It's all about the search for truth for me, and usually that truth is never fully in each group because everyone tends to push for their own agenda. Usually the truth is in the outskirts somewhere, in the middle of many agendas.
Yet feelings can be a bad adviser when it comes to the search or truth. Many flaws in human reasoning are ultimately based on feelings.Even this movement, is there errors there? Too many to count, yet it is people at least trying to think for themselves, yet look at the amount of hate generated towards them (yes I know flat earthers act like 3 year olds at times), yet they aren't hurting anyone.. Yet they are treated like cancer by most.
Trying to think for themselves? Not really. That would involve having actual honest debate, trying to refine your arguments, reading what other smart people have thought before you. That isn't happening.This is cult mentality, not acceptance of different views or respect of the fellow man.
The fellow man can command respect by his nature, his opinion cannot. A statement of fact needs to actually be true in order to be respected.
I don't care about agenda or sides...only truth. Between every extreme the truth exist.
That's only statistically likely, but not true in the sense that it follows from reason. There is no rule that says the universe cannot be extreme.I think majority of "religion" is fueled by greed, power, agenda, and self interest. Just a form of control just like many forms of government control. However I believe in Yahweh and Yehushua as the ultimate truth. Some would say that is contradictory.
I suppose that depends on your definition of "ultimate truth". Belief in a highest being isn't irrational, though many specific claims about such beings are.Flat earth...do I believe it flat, I feel it's highly unlikely.
What do you mean you "believe" it flat? The word is very poorly defined when it comes to opinions about empirical reality.However, are these people reaching out because they feel there is something wrong and somebody is hiding something..yes. I just don't like putting things in a box of this group, that group. It's all about the search for truth for me, and usually that truth is never fully in each group because everyone tends to push for their own agenda. Usually the truth is in the outskirts somewhere, in the middle of many agendas.
Yet feelings can be a bad adviser when it comes to the search or truth. Many flaws in human reasoning are ultimately based on feelings.Even this movement, is there errors there? Too many to count, yet it is people at least trying to think for themselves, yet look at the amount of hate generated towards them (yes I know flat earthers act like 3 year olds at times), yet they aren't hurting anyone.. Yet they are treated like cancer by most.
Trying to think for themselves? Not really. That would involve having actual honest debate, trying to refine your arguments, reading what other smart people have thought before you. That isn't happening.This is cult mentality, not acceptance of different views or respect of the fellow man.
The fellow man can command respect by his nature, his opinion cannot. A statement of fact needs to actually be true in order to be respected.
Leave it up to you to somehow break every single word or sentence down until it doesn't make sense anymore. I don't understand your need to pick apart everything to the bone, especially when you have no actual conclusion or obvious reason to do so.
I had no problem at all following what babyhighspeed said, and I agree for the most part with his message and believe it to be logically sound. What exactly are you trying to prove by meticulously fragmenting his message to the point of incoherence?
I don't care about agenda or sides...only truth. Between every extreme the truth exist.
That's only statistically likely, but not true in the sense that it follows from reason. There is no rule that says the universe cannot be extreme.I think majority of "religion" is fueled by greed, power, agenda, and self interest. Just a form of control just like many forms of government control. However I believe in Yahweh and Yehushua as the ultimate truth. Some would say that is contradictory.
I suppose that depends on your definition of "ultimate truth". Belief in a highest being isn't irrational, though many specific claims about such beings are.Flat earth...do I believe it flat, I feel it's highly unlikely.
What do you mean you "believe" it flat? The word is very poorly defined when it comes to opinions about empirical reality.However, are these people reaching out because they feel there is something wrong and somebody is hiding something..yes. I just don't like putting things in a box of this group, that group. It's all about the search for truth for me, and usually that truth is never fully in each group because everyone tends to push for their own agenda. Usually the truth is in the outskirts somewhere, in the middle of many agendas.
Yet feelings can be a bad adviser when it comes to the search or truth. Many flaws in human reasoning are ultimately based on feelings.Even this movement, is there errors there? Too many to count, yet it is people at least trying to think for themselves, yet look at the amount of hate generated towards them (yes I know flat earthers act like 3 year olds at times), yet they aren't hurting anyone.. Yet they are treated like cancer by most.
Trying to think for themselves? Not really. That would involve having actual honest debate, trying to refine your arguments, reading what other smart people have thought before you. That isn't happening.This is cult mentality, not acceptance of different views or respect of the fellow man.
The fellow man can command respect by his nature, his opinion cannot. A statement of fact needs to actually be true in order to be respected.
Leave it up to you to somehow break every single word or sentence down until it doesn't make sense anymore. I don't understand your need to pick apart everything to the bone, especially when you have no actual conclusion or obvious reason to do so.
I had no problem at all following what babyhighspeed said, and I agree for the most part with his message and believe it to be logically sound. What exactly are you trying to prove by meticulously fragmenting his message to the point of incoherence?
Yes there is nothing that says the truth cant be an extreme. Though statistically it is more likely to be "in the middle somewhere". The few truths I have found in life were found in the " middle ground" somewhere, and "typically" "extremism" formed peoples opinions to be one sided. Also caused unhealthy biased that acted as binders against the truth. However, the very beginning of this paragraph is true, though unlikely.
I have chosen to accept that faith as a fact, yes. However, I still recognize it as a faith, though I have accepted it as fact...lol I know circular talk, however I feel you know what I mean. Though "fact" to me, I am not jaded into not knowing it is stemmed from "faith".
To me, considering the evidence, the answers to my questions, the attitude of the "majority" of FE believers...it is that, a belief. To me this is the word that describes this movement the best, and it is a belief I find mathematically improbable to be moved any further than a belief.
To me, I feel statistically , unbiased reasoning is one of the most sound logical approaches to finding the truth. It is when it turns to biased "feelings" that is loses its beneficial qualities.
This is why I injected the 3 year old statement there. Not all flat earthers act as you describe, though the majority do. However, from the action of the majority , this goes back to my statement before of a "belief". However, even people whom pose an argument for a belief or faith, if being honest should be able to present and logically debate without resulting in childishness behavior. Even though this is predominantly present in the movement, and certainly an issue if the movement would like to be given more of a serious view. I still stand by this statement, considering a view that is outside of mainstream is the attempt at freedom of thought, alot can bloom from that. Also, the deplorable treat of people whom do not accept the mainstream point of view is a certain fact, no matter what it is(as long as it isn't causing others harm), this is unacceptable.
Statement of " fact" is the only way to command respect? I would have to disagree with that. First off, absolute facts are not very plentiful in our existence. Secondly, many great things were born just from "ideas", fact or not. Say I look at this movement, I start to study it, find the world is a globe, but our theory on gravitation is incorrect. So I create something ground breaking that leads to many innovations. However, the flat earth model was the catalyst for this discovery. Many great things can be born from ideas, correct or incorrect. Ideas and freedom of thought should always be respected if presented without bias, logically, intelligently, and with respect. Number one this is a fellow human presenting it, number two, no telling what could blossum from it.
Sorry, I overlooked your reply. I only realized you had replied when I saw you answering to TheTruthIsOnHere.Yes there is nothing that says the truth cant be an extreme. Though statistically it is more likely to be "in the middle somewhere". The few truths I have found in life were found in the " middle ground" somewhere, and "typically" "extremism" formed peoples opinions to be one sided. Also caused unhealthy biased that acted as binders against the truth. However, the very beginning of this paragraph is true, though unlikely.
Yeah, black and white vision is usually bad, I'd agree. It's just that I'd also caution against assuming some element of truth in every claim. Sometimes things really are as simple as they seem.I have chosen to accept that faith as a fact, yes. However, I still recognize it as a faith, though I have accepted it as fact...lol I know circular talk, however I feel you know what I mean. Though "fact" to me, I am not jaded into not knowing it is stemmed from "faith".
I Think I get it. I would probably name it different categories of truth. There is empirical facts, there is philosophical truth, and there is faith.To me, considering the evidence, the answers to my questions, the attitude of the "majority" of FE believers...it is that, a belief. To me this is the word that describes this movement the best, and it is a belief I find mathematically improbable to be moved any further than a belief.
Ah, ok. I didn't realize you were talking about the movement. I thought you meant that you, personally "believe" the world to be flat. I always find it odd when basic factual (i.e. empirical) questions are framed it terms of belief.To me, I feel statistically , unbiased reasoning is one of the most sound logical approaches to finding the truth. It is when it turns to biased "feelings" that is loses its beneficial qualities.
I can agree with that.This is why I injected the 3 year old statement there. Not all flat earthers act as you describe, though the majority do. However, from the action of the majority , this goes back to my statement before of a "belief". However, even people whom pose an argument for a belief or faith, if being honest should be able to present and logically debate without resulting in childishness behavior. Even though this is predominantly present in the movement, and certainly an issue if the movement would like to be given more of a serious view. I still stand by this statement, considering a view that is outside of mainstream is the attempt at freedom of thought, alot can bloom from that. Also, the deplorable treat of people whom do not accept the mainstream point of view is a certain fact, no matter what it is(as long as it isn't causing others harm), this is unacceptable.
What frustrates me is how much those people who describe themselves as "free thinkers" actually cling to dogma. They just replace one authority with another. But you are correct about how it is sometimes sad how people treat one another. Thinking in clans and trying to assert our superiority against other groups seems to be deeply built into our psyche, though that is of course no justification.Statement of " fact" is the only way to command respect? I would have to disagree with that. First off, absolute facts are not very plentiful in our existence. Secondly, many great things were born just from "ideas", fact or not. Say I look at this movement, I start to study it, find the world is a globe, but our theory on gravitation is incorrect. So I create something ground breaking that leads to many innovations. However, the flat earth model was the catalyst for this discovery. Many great things can be born from ideas, correct or incorrect. Ideas and freedom of thought should always be respected if presented without bias, logically, intelligently, and with respect. Number one this is a fellow human presenting it, number two, no telling what could blossum from it.
I think we have a misunderstanding here, I am sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I did not mean that only statements of fact command respect. For one, (empirical) facts are but one aspect of truth. For another, there is of course plenty of opinions that I can respect, like what faith one chooses. What I meant was that if you make a statement that can be either truth or falsehood, it can only be respected as the truth. If one considers it falsehood, there is no reason to respect it. One still has to respect the person, but their opinion does not deserve any deference. One must be allowed to point out things that are wrong, even if that is unpleasant to the person who holds the statement to be true.
Once again running down the list in order
1.You are right, some situations there is no truth...I absolutely agree. This was not meant to be implied, though I can see how you would see it being implied. That was my error in wording.
2. I can agree here on point two, I see no differing of opinion here. Though I hate seeing the word "fact" so much, since true facts are very close to the reality of a mythological unicorn. However, I know you were just making a point to clarify.
3. This point I see no disagreement.
4. This point I see no disagreement.
5. This point I see no disagreement. I feel the same irritation when "free thinkers" are just replacing authoritative sourcing. "I don't trust the government but now I trust every utterance of alex jones""I don't trust NASA, but I trust every youtube video speaking against NASA" the list could go on for many moons. However, people whom are blind folded by whatever source need to be treated with love, respect, and dignity...otherwise their defenses will never drop long enough to allow a free thought to form. Also people whom are truly forming free thoughts, even if we consider them wrong..there should be the same love, respect and dignity. For they are a fellow living creature one, also who knows what could be born from their idea. Maybe you are wrong and they are right, or maybe the reverse. Possibly the truth is in the middle, so when the thoughts are combined you find the truth..possibly it would not have been available with two individual thoughts and ideology.
6. This I believe you are saying that if someone states an obvious error that you yourself can prove as false for whatever reason, then you still respect the person, but there is no respect of the idea. If this is what you are stating, I can agree to that. Though I have to say, it takes me a long time to write off a an idea as 100 percent implausible, this is for reasons I have previously stated. Even the flat earth model for example, I began researching it because I hear all ideas for reasons stated prior. Even though I consider it a very low percentage of being correct (very low single percentage), I am still not willing to completely write it off as 100 percent incorrect yet. Also I 100 percent agree with people should not hold back on presenting evidence of why another is incorrect. That is the only way progress can be made. Fear of having ones views changed or being proven wrong is why people fear such arguments, yet the truth needs no defense, it stands under its own strength.
See this is quality, intelligent debate. The outcome is learning there is a lot of common ground here. However, this would have never been accomplished if I would have called you a s#$t eating douche for dissecting my words to spin them in an untruthful way suiting your agenda. Or you call me a dim witted, s%$t swarming fruit fly who speaks in hypocritical, deceiving circles. Would have just ended in more insults, wasting time, and no one learning a thing about each other or ones self.
Once again running down the list in order
1.You are right, some situations there is no truth...I absolutely agree. This was not meant to be implied, though I can see how you would see it being implied. That was my error in wording.
2. I can agree here on point two, I see no differing of opinion here. Though I hate seeing the word "fact" so much, since true facts are very close to the reality of a mythological unicorn. However, I know you were just making a point to clarify.
3. This point I see no disagreement.
4. This point I see no disagreement.
5. This point I see no disagreement. I feel the same irritation when "free thinkers" are just replacing authoritative sourcing. "I don't trust the government but now I trust every utterance of alex jones""I don't trust NASA, but I trust every youtube video speaking against NASA" the list could go on for many moons. However, people whom are blind folded by whatever source need to be treated with love, respect, and dignity...otherwise their defenses will never drop long enough to allow a free thought to form. Also people whom are truly forming free thoughts, even if we consider them wrong..there should be the same love, respect and dignity. For they are a fellow living creature one, also who knows what could be born from their idea. Maybe you are wrong and they are right, or maybe the reverse. Possibly the truth is in the middle, so when the thoughts are combined you find the truth..possibly it would not have been available with two individual thoughts and ideology.
6. This I believe you are saying that if someone states an obvious error that you yourself can prove as false for whatever reason, then you still respect the person, but there is no respect of the idea. If this is what you are stating, I can agree to that. Though I have to say, it takes me a long time to write off a an idea as 100 percent implausible, this is for reasons I have previously stated. Even the flat earth model for example, I began researching it because I hear all ideas for reasons stated prior. Even though I consider it a very low percentage of being correct (very low single percentage), I am still not willing to completely write it off as 100 percent incorrect yet. Also I 100 percent agree with people should not hold back on presenting evidence of why another is incorrect. That is the only way progress can be made. Fear of having ones views changed or being proven wrong is why people fear such arguments, yet the truth needs no defense, it stands under its own strength.
See this is quality, intelligent debate. The outcome is learning there is a lot of common ground here. However, this would have never been accomplished if I would have called you a s#$t eating douche for dissecting my words to spin them in an untruthful way suiting your agenda. Or you call me a dim witted, s%$t swarming fruit fly who speaks in hypocritical, deceiving circles. Would have just ended in more insults, wasting time, and no one learning a thing about each other or ones self.
Yeah, in honest debates you usually do get a lot of common ground. After all we are all very alike in the ways we think, if not in our opinions.
When I use the word fact, I take it only to mean a "best guess about the empirical world". Nothing like objective, immovable truth. That is, in the end, all that facts are, but that is sufficient for us to base our decisions on. Just like you get irritated by people throwing the word "fact" around and taking it to mean what it doesn't, I don't understand why people "believe" so much out of religious contexts. Either it is your best guess - then it isn't a belief; Or it isn't your best guess, and then you just claim to believe it, but don't really. It's not like anyone has objective "facts" about empirical reality, so there is no reason to couch the statement in that much uncertainity.
I understand your points about how one should be hestitant to write things off completely. But at the same time I feel that a lot of people cling to things they should, by rights, write off as implausible, at least for the moment. Writing something off as "wrong" doesn't necessarily imply it stays "wrong" forever. You can change your mind - in fact reason kinda requires you to change your mind all the time based on new information. But if there is no good reason to cling to a belief, it should simply be dropped, if only momentarily. I feel this is connected to the general reluctance of people to make up clear rules and goals. Nowadays, everything is relative, nothing is true. Everything deserves respect, but by that token, nothing ultimately gets any actual respect. Being tolerant and open minded is not the same as being undecided. I much prefer a healthy argument between people with a clear opinion to everyone taking the middle ground by default.
By the way, I did think about what you said, to TheTruthIsOnHere, about me breaking posts up into bits. It may actually be connected to the way I process information. In my field, very precise textual analysis is a key element, so I am kind of trained to dissect every single sentence.