6401

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 23, 2018, 01:41:00 PM »

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

It's a method we all have, but most of us are silly and try to suppress it.

Its a matter of honesty vs dishonesty. In order to discredit this Brazilian guy, you will need to produce evidence of him lying, like evidence has been produced against NASA.

So Tom, thank you for showing your hand, for finally giving me solid evidence that you are neither particularly rational nor scientific in your beliefs.

Because its sooo rational to trust the word of an organization which has produced fake content over the word of an organization which has not.

Because its sooo rational to discredit someone and brand them a LIAR because of an odd experience they had as a child.

THAT is irrational. Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

6402

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 23, 2018, 01:37:50 PM »

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

Its pretty simple. There is evidence that NASA is lying, but not evidence that this Brazilian guy is lying.

Per others like deGrasse Tyson, I don't call Tyson a liar. There is no evidence that he is a liar. I see what he has to say and address his points.

6403

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 10:02:00 PM »

I do know who James Randi is and it is disingenuous to say that he tricked and deceived people for a living. In fact he has spent a lot of time debunking those who do. Randi has spent much of his time debunking psychics and other flim flam and part of doing that is showing how he can reproduce their “abilities” using stage magic techniques. But when you go to see a magician you know that they are tricking you, that’s pretty much why you go. No one goes to a magic show thinking that the person performing has actual magical powers.

That was pretty much my point. You can't cherry pick something about a person's past and say that it discredits them forever in the future.

This guy's past just involves an odd childhood experience he had, that got him interested in studying unexplained phenomena. It doesn't even have anything to do with deceit.

6404

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 09:43:58 PM »

Seeing something you can't explain in the sky is not the same as hearing voices. There is no logical or natural reason aliens can't exist and believing in them isn't the issue. Hearing voices is the sign of an altered state or mental illness. Since I doubt he was tripping at 9, I'm going to go with mental illness.

Actually, a lot of children hear voices.

http://www.intervoiceonline.org/2577/young-people/parents/dont-panic-if-your-child-is-hearing-voices.html

First things first, From the research that we have carried out into the experience of adults and children who hear voices it has became apparent that:

-    To hear voices is in itself is a normal though unusual experience

-    However, it is possible that you can become ill as a result of hearing voices when you cannot cope with them

-   For most children (60%) the voices will disappear over time as the child develops and as they learn to cope with the life’s problems (and the emotions and feelings involved with these problems) that led to the voices starting in the first place

It doesn't mean that he is a LIAR.

If you believe show like Ancient Aliens, then I can see why your standard of proof is so low when it comes to FEH. It is an entertainment show. It isn't real.

What do you mean it isn't real? Have you even watched it? They just point out mysteries such as why the ancients painted pictures of UFOs and had stories of chariots in the sky, and speculate on whether the pyramids were built with the help of such creatures. They don't LIE to us.

I don't know who James Randi is. If he is a con-man, I wouldn't believe him. Then again, he literally has nothing to do with this. I'm saying your source has stated he hears and sees things that aren't actually there. He is not a reliable source and I do not believe him, nor should you. This is one of those posts you should have admitted you didn't do enough vetting on and let it go. We all make mistakes and post things that we later regret.

Well, then I would suggest looking more into who James Randi and his society is if you are at all interested in the validity of alternative science.

6405

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Digging

« on: March 22, 2018, 08:16:01 PM »

We don't know. You can help out by digging a hole to see how far you can get and what you find. Let us know how it works out. Thanks!

6406

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 07:40:06 PM »

I suppose it depends on how empirical you would like to be. If you are going to believe someone like the Ancient Aliens guy, James Randi, Tycho Brahe or this collection of Brazilians without seeing what they have seen first-hand, why wouldn't you believe NASA, SpaceX or Albert Einstein?

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

6407

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 07:33:59 PM »

I don't see the word "aliens" on either of those pages.

I clicked on the documentary about ancient technologies and found a segment about flutes in Bolivia.

I clicked on the second link and it appears to be a bio of one of the founders, who was inspired to create the institution based on some odd experiences he had as a child where he saw some lights, experienced missing time, and a feeling that he was abducted. He explains that "one of the main goals of Dakila Research is to explain unknown phenomena that are often attributed to ufology".

Do you have something against an organization trying to explain mysterious phenomena that people in Brazil will often attribute to ufology?

Is there something bad about flutes in Bolivia?

From the ufology link - "In the beginning they were voices, I heard them without knowing where they came from, it started at the age of nine. I also felt the presence of someone next to me, sometimes I saw some figures."

Soooo yeah, the guy that is going to prove there is another continent and that the Earth is convex is probably nothing more than your run of the mill schizo.

So? The Ancient Aliens guy claims to have seen UFOs. A lot of the UFO authors claim to have personal experience, or know someone with personal experience, in some manner. That makes sense. Why else would they be motivated to study such mysteries?

James Randi, of the James Randi Education Foundation, was a stage magician, and literally tricked and deceived people for a living. His history in the subject is what inspired him to study magic and the paranormal seriously. We generally have trust in his organization to study the truth. Why should we believe James Randi, who has a history of deceiving people, over someone like this guy, who does not have a history of deceiving people, and says that he just wants to explain his experiences?

6408

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 22, 2018, 02:59:44 PM »

None of that sounds much different than what is seen on Ancient Aliens by The History Channel.

6409

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 11:34:08 PM »

I don't see the word "aliens" on either of those pages.

I clicked on the documentary about ancient technologies and found a segment about flutes in Bolivia.

I clicked on the second link and it appears to be a bio of one of the founders, who was inspired to create the institution based on some odd experiences he had as a child where he saw some lights, experienced missing time, and a feeling that he was abducted. He explains that "one of the main goals of Dakila Research is to explain unknown phenomena that are often attributed to ufology".

Do you have something against an organization trying to explain mysterious phenomena that people in Brazil will often attribute to ufology?

Is there something bad about flutes in Bolivia?

6410

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence

« on: March 21, 2018, 09:42:39 PM »

This is a terrible argument from Tom. We do have data for going 'the long way around,' and you get it by connecting flights together like pz says. In another current case, Santiago to Cape Town to Sydney. It doesn't help his cause at all; again, the work has been done and it is a complete debunk of flat Earth belief. He's starting you all on a wild goose chase to retread an argument he already lost. Don't fall for it.

Connecting flights aren't traveling on the same latitude. They travel more northward. We have no idea how big the earth's circumference is at those far southern latitudes in question.

6411

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 09:36:08 PM »

https://m.facebook.com/DakilaResearch/?locale2=en_GB

I particularly like the piece on ancient alien technology.

Come now, is the cognitive bias really so strong that you're willing to look past the clear evidence that these guys are BS woo merchants?

Sad.

I did an alt-f find and the word "alien" doesn't appear on that page anywhere.

6412

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence

« on: March 21, 2018, 07:14:28 PM »

Continental US, I suppose? Will look it up.

EDIT: Well, obviously that's the way. Why should they go over china? That makes absolutely no sense on a globe, so on which flat earth model would it?

The point is that it would make no sense for the planes to fly the "long way" around the earth between those two southern points. We only have data for that route.

6413

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence

« on: March 21, 2018, 07:08:30 PM »

What do you mean by "going the 'long' way around the earth"?
That would be around the earth on that flat monopole model, but on a globe that's the direct way.

When you travel between Los Angeles and New York does the plane go over the continental US or the long way over China?

6414

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence

« on: March 21, 2018, 07:05:26 PM »

Except people that are. Quantas nonstop Sydney to Santiago de Chile, Boeing 747, 12:35 hours.

So there's a pretty conclusive argument against the monopole map since that 747's not going supersonic.

That might tell the monopole map creator (whoever that is) something about how to make his visualization. But what about the flight time going the other long way around the earth between those points?

6415

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 06:56:30 PM »

Out of curiosity, why is Brahe the only one that matters? What about Kepler and his experiments? Newton? Einstein?

Kepler didn't even study geocentricity. It was already a "closed matter" by his time. It was a "closed matter" in the times of Newton and Einstein too, which is why none of them thought to study it. The same goes for the shape of the earth. Once things are a "closed matter" in the educational system and in common thought, it is almost impossible to supplant.

Also, I think it is important for you to honestly answer Pablo's question above.

I answered his question.

Because in order to posit the Earth is flat, you must first decide that EVERY space agency on the planet is lying about going into space, and EVERY image of the Earth from space is fake. That's not 'free thinking' talk that's conspiracy talk.

Yes, and there is evidence that the actors are questionable. To blindly trust is incredibly close minded.

You're also incorrect in assuming there are no experiments being done to ascertain the spin of the Earth. At the very least many science museums that discuss the topic will have a Foucault Pendulum on display, and information on it. An experiment anyone can go and observe happening in real time.

Actually, those Focult Pendulums in museums are just motorized props. The pendulum stops after a short while because of air friction. The next time you visit such a museum look up.

Lastly, and I only have the links in a long buried post that I should dig up to corroborate this, these basic tests and experiments ARE still done today. But you won't find them written about in scientific journals, because they're part of the curriculum in earning your degree. You seem to forget that much of this foundational experimentation is done as part of earning a Bachelor's or even Master's degree.

Then go find us someone's homework if you believe that, and are having trouble finding studies. You should know by now that "the studies exist... somewhere" doesn't fly around here.

6416

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 06:38:09 PM »

Tom, you are completely wrong on this. I pointed you to an experiment that took place in 2005. You are speaking from a place of complete ignorance because you don't know what experiments are being done.

Aren't you the person who found a Youtube video with the word "teleportation" in the title and assumed that it meant that the researchers discovered an alien transporter technology?

6417

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 06:24:09 PM »

"of his era" ...

If Tycho Brahe had lived through the modern era, where we've seen 50+ years of orbital space flight, have imagery of the whole Earth every 10 mins through weather satellites, have seen over 20 humans go to the Moon and back .....

Do you think he would bother doing his experiment?

You just answered the question of why the source is old. Astronomers wouldn't study something unless they felt it was a matter of question or contention. Congratulations?

So you don't think those things I quoted are a matter of question or contention, then?

I happen to think that it is a matter of question and contention, but that is not what the educational system teaches. Astronomers like Tycho Brahe studied these things back then because it was an open question. But today Astronomers are taught and told that it has all been resolved. They don't even consider to study or confirm these types of things today.

This is why the Flat Earth Society is the greatest free thinking organization on earth. The movement questions the unquestionable and challenges the unchallenged.

The key point on Tycho Brahe's work is whether the Earth orbits the Sun or vice versa. He knows the Earth is round and his observations rely on it. He might dispute the spin but he agrees with the shape.

Do you accept his findings?

Every Astronomer bases the assumptions in his or her work on the current dogma of the day. If the shape of the earth was not something under question or contention, it would not be studied. The earth's rotation or geocentricity is not studied today, which is why there are no modern attempts. It is a "closed matter". In the mid 1500's, the earth's shape was a "closed matter," although there were still debates about whether it was the center of everything.

It is not a coincidence that Tycho published his findings around the time Copernicus did. These studies were the result of world wide debates. Tycho didn't decide to do it on his own. If the shape of the earth were under question instead, Tycho would have studied that.

6418

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 06:13:04 PM »

"of his era" ...

If Tycho Brahe had lived through the modern era, where we've seen 50+ years of orbital space flight, have imagery of the whole Earth every 10 mins through weather satellites, have seen over 20 humans go to the Moon and back .....

Do you think he would bother doing his experiment?

You just answered the question of why the source is old. Astronomers wouldn't study something unless they felt it was a matter of question or contention. Congratulations?

6419

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence

« on: March 21, 2018, 06:08:03 PM »

Yet you can.

Any evidence of that? Have you measured the distances between all points on earth?

You don't need to do it personally when there is enough corroborating information. Comparisons of any published intercontinental flight times adhere the distances shown on the globe, weather patterns and forecasts relative to different locations, recorded relative position of the sun in the sky throughout the day from any location, predictable location of the stars at any point in time, fuel calculations used by airlines, navigation of international shipping, journey times for people who go on cruises across the Atlantic or Pacific. All these things perfectly align with the relative distances of locations on the globe. None of them align with any possible FE projections or visualization or whatever excuse for a map is being used. For all the enthusiasm you have for the dimensions of the Earth you show a surprising lack of interest in the geography of it.

Planes don't take all possible flight routes. Who is traveling between Australia and South America going the "long" way around the earth? No one is.

While I do not subscribe to the Monopole model, using flights as an argument is not conclusive.

6420

Flat Earth Community / Re: Convex Earth Documentary

« on: March 21, 2018, 05:58:57 PM »

This appears to be an account of many tests performed over many years about the movement of the Earth. I would just note I do not see Tycho mentioned here (although cannon experiments are mentioned and described as being highly inaccurate and therefore useless). http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1913PA.....21..208R

If the cannons in the tests were inaccurate then the conclusion from the test would be that something deflected the cannon ball. However, the cannons were accurate, hit their target, and that was not the conclusion.

But Tom cherry picks the one dude who was claiming what he still believes and dismisses all the people who said he was wrong. Convenient, that.

The "dude" I picked performed experiments and wrote studies on the matter, with an entire country funding his astronomical research with 5% of its wealth.

The "dude" you picked from the Quora.com commenting area performed no experiments, and just says vaguely that we need to set up gyroscopes. Yet your source is more credible?