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Offline Stagiri

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Trajectories of Stars
« on: April 18, 2018, 02:23:36 PM »
Recently, I've read the FES wiki page and some forum threads on this topic. Nevertheless, since most of the comments didn't really answer anything and since I have a slightly different question, I'd like to ask you: how does the FET explain the observed trajectories of stars (see the images below)? I'm particularly interested in how there could be two apparent celestial poles.

Northern HemisphereEquatorSouthern Hemisphere
(Source)

Some real-life equivalents (not mine, click to visit):
Northern HemisphereEquator (notice how it's slightly tilted)Southern Hemisphere
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 05:51:21 PM by Stagiri »
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 05:50:09 PM »
I'm particularly interested in how there could be two apparent celestial poles.

The Wiki alludes to it, but here is what I believe is happening. People are reading Earth Not a Globe, but none of the studies the society published after that. After the South Pole was discovered in the early 1900's the Flat Earth Society (then called the Universal Zetetic Society) updated the Flat Earth model with this new information, showing an earth with two poles.

You can read about this in Zetetic Astronomy by Lady Blount and The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 06:22:03 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 06:21:49 PM »
I'm particularly interested in how there could be two apparent celestial poles.

The Wiki alludes to it, but here is what is happening. People are reading Earth Not a Globe, but none of the studies the society published after that. After the South Pole was discovered in the early 1900's the Flat Earth Society (then called the Universal Zetetic Society) updated the Flat Earth model with this new information, showing an earth with two poles.

You can read about this in Zetetic Astronomy by Lady Blount and The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions

So, do I understand it correctly that the FE isn't unipolar (but rather bipolar)?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 06:26:06 PM by Stagiri »
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 06:56:36 PM »
I'm particularly interested in how there could be two apparent celestial poles.

The Wiki alludes to it, but here is what is happening. People are reading Earth Not a Globe, but none of the studies the society published after that. After the South Pole was discovered in the early 1900's the Flat Earth Society (then called the Universal Zetetic Society) updated the Flat Earth model with this new information, showing an earth with two poles.

You can read about this in Zetetic Astronomy by Lady Blount and The Sea Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions

So, do I understand it correctly that the FE isn't unipolar (but rather bipolar)?

That is correct. I don't know why Samuel Shenton and Charles K. Johnson didn't continue the research, which was primarily chronicled in Lady Blount's journal The Earth Not a Globe Review. When they rebooted the society they used the original monopole model.

It is possible that many of those post-ENAG works were lost after WWII and that they didn't have easy access to them when rebooting the society. We have only gotten access to them over the last 5 years because of an international effort by universities to digitize old and rare works in their collections. And much of the older Flat Earth research is still missing.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 07:06:58 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 05:50:05 PM »
Dear Mr. Bishop, would you consider the map below to be of any use, at least for illustrative purposes?

Map of Bipolar Earth
(not mine, click it to visit the OP)
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 07:15:35 PM »
That's an example of a bi-polar map, yes. There may be other bi-polar projections and possibilities.

Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 07:26:58 PM »
That's an example of a bi-polar map, yes. There may be other bi-polar projections and possibilities.
Projections of what?

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 07:38:42 PM »
(...) There may be other bi-polar projections and possibilities.

Such as?
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2018, 11:53:04 PM »
(...) There may be other bi-polar projections and possibilities.

Such as?

Go to this link and drag the map around. There are a lot of ways to make a bi-polar model:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140614024800/http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/surface/currents/azimuthal_equidistant=60.11,21.90,145

Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 03:29:40 AM »
Yes, and all of them would be in conflict with observations of distances such as airline jet routes or the path of the sun at the tropics and equator.

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 04:09:26 AM »
(...) There may be other bi-polar projections and possibilities.

Such as?

Go to this link and drag the map around. There are a lot of ways to make a bi-polar model:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140614024800/http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/surface/currents/azimuthal_equidistant=60.11,21.90,145

Nevertheless, the pattern remains similar, doesn't it?
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2018, 01:04:25 AM »
Yes, and all of them would be in conflict with observations of distances such as airline jet routes or the path of the sun at the tropics and equator.

That is TBD. Over the years, in the times we have tried, we have had trouble testing out different maps due to a number of reasons, of which I will summarize here.

    - A major airport does not make connections between all airports on earth. Multiple stops are necessary to get to some locations.

     - Jets must fly with respect to airspace agreements --they don't fly the quickest route to the destination

     - It is not really that uncommon for a flight to arrive more than an hour early or an hour late. There are reports on the web about such occurrences. Jets may be delayed in a route; we would need a good resource for historical flight times.

     - International flights often use jet streams to reach their destination as Standard Operating Procedure

     - Nonstop in the travel industry doesn't necessarily always mean "nonstop". A stop is only a stop that transfers passengers in travel agency lingo. A bus which makes a stop for fuel at some point along a 29 stop route advertises that route as "29 Stops," not "30 Stops."

     - The distances reported from airlines are actually calculated based on a spherical coordinate system. Flight times from flight logs would be required to make an estimation.

There are more issues as well.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 01:21:22 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Trajectories of Stars
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2018, 07:42:56 AM »
Yes, and all of them would be in conflict with observations of distances such as airline jet routes or the path of the sun at the tropics and equator.

That is TBD. Over the years, in the times we have tried, we have had trouble testing out different maps due to a number of reasons, of which I will summarize here.

    - A major airport does not make connections between all airports on earth. Multiple stops are necessary to get to some locations.

     - Jets must fly with respect to airspace agreements --they don't fly the quickest route to the destination

     - It is not really that uncommon for a flight to arrive more than an hour early or an hour late. There are reports on the web about such occurrences. Jets may be delayed in a route; we would need a good resource for historical flight times.

     - International flights often use jet streams to reach their destination as Standard Operating Procedure

     - Nonstop in the travel industry doesn't necessarily always mean "nonstop". A stop is only a stop that transfers passengers in travel agency lingo. A bus which makes a stop for fuel at some point along a 29 stop route advertises that route as "29 Stops," not "30 Stops."

     - The distances reported from airlines are actually calculated based on a spherical coordinate system. Flight times from flight logs would be required to make an estimation.

There are more issues as well.
You could try using that data for an approximate map, go on, you might be surprised.

What's the problem with using the angle of sun?