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Offline Tom Bishop

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NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« on: April 15, 2018, 06:01:11 PM »
I came across this interesting quote:

"In August 2005, Airservices Australia (Airservices) and the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) signed a Letter of Agreement (LoA) to undertake collaborative research on Air Traffic Management (ATM) decision-support automation, communication, navigation and surveillance. One project completed under the LoA focused on validating the Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) In-Trail Procedure (ITP), a new airborne procedure that leverages the benefits of ADS-B to provide a means for pilots to make more informed requests of Air Traffic Service Providers (ATSPs) and enable altitude changes that previously would not have been approvable. Intended for use in non-RADAR (radio detection and ranging) airspace that employs procedural separation, the ITP uses airborne ADS-B data, onboard tools, and a new separation standard based on these data and tools to provide ADS-B-equipped aircraft with better access to preferred flight levels in oceanic and other remote airspace."

From airservicesaustralia.com: "Airservices is Australia's air navigation service provider"

What business does NASA have collaborating with foreign services for Air Traffic Control? Is NASA the Air Traffic Control authority of the world or something?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 06:06:50 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 06:21:40 PM »
You know what the first A of NASA stands for, right?
It is in the quote you posted

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/nasa-knows/what-is-nasa-58.html

Quote
Many people know something about NASA’s work. But most probably have no idea about how many different things the agency does. Astronauts in orbit conduct scientific research. Satellites help scientists learn more about Earth. Space probes study the solar system, and beyond. New developments improve air travel and other aspects of flight. NASA is also beginning a new program to send humans to explore beyond the moon to Mars. In addition to those major missions, NASA does many other things. The agency shares what it learns, so that its information can make life better for people all over the world. For example, companies can use NASA discoveries to create new “spin-off” products

I have no idea what point you think you're making.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 06:32:17 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 06:39:40 PM »
Your article says it's "collaborative research". That implies mutual benefits.
You really are reaching having been proven wrong a few times recently.  :D
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Offline Stagiri

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 06:48:03 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.

Dear Mr. Bishop, if company A and company B collaborate does it mean that company A intends to gain control over company B?
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.

Morgenstund

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 07:02:56 PM »
I came across this interesting quote:

"In August 2005, Airservices Australia (Airservices) and the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) signed a Letter of Agreement (LoA) to undertake collaborative research on Air Traffic Management (ATM) decision-support automation, communication, navigation and surveillance. One project completed under the LoA focused on validating the Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) In-Trail Procedure (ITP), a new airborne procedure that leverages the benefits of ADS-B to provide a means for pilots to make more informed requests of Air Traffic Service Providers (ATSPs) and enable altitude changes that previously would not have been approvable. Intended for use in non-RADAR (radio detection and ranging) airspace that employs procedural separation, the ITP uses airborne ADS-B data, onboard tools, and a new separation standard based on these data and tools to provide ADS-B-equipped aircraft with better access to preferred flight levels in oceanic and other remote airspace."

From airservicesaustralia.com: "Airservices is Australia's air navigation service provider"

What business does NASA have collaborating with foreign services for Air Traffic Control? Is NASA the Air Traffic Control authority of the world or something?

"Collaborative research" between various agencies from different countries is hardly news. And you calling it "collaborating with foreign services" supports my suspicion that the 'Flat Earth movement' would be nothing without the conspiracy theories. 

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 07:12:32 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.

Dear Mr. Bishop, if company A and company B collaborate does it mean that company A intends to gain control over company B?

It means that there is a conflict of interest when trying to use the data of company B to vouch for company A.

If Scarface is collaborating with the president of a local bank for his business dealings, can we trust the bank's records on Scarface to be accurate?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 07:24:09 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 07:49:44 PM »
Right. I think I've got it...

So NASA collaborated on some research with Australia and therefore that casts doubt on Australia corroborating the moon landings 40 years previously and therefore the moon landings were faked and therefore NASA are part of a global conspiracy and therefore the earth is flat!

Well, that's good enough for me. I hereby renounce my belief in the globe earth.

Have you been watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail again?

BEDEVERE: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No. No.
VILLAGER #2: No, it floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond! Throw her into the pond!
BEDEVERE: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Uh, very small rocks!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Uh, churches! Churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead! Lead!
ARTHUR: A duck!
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEVERE: Exactly. So, logically...
VILLAGER #1: If... she... weighs... the same as a duck,... she's made of wood.
BEDEVERE: And therefore?
VILLAGER #2: A witch!


This really is a reach, Tom...
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Devils Advocate

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 07:59:19 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.

I guess they've just realised that when USA planes fly to other countries they can't do the entire flight in their own airspace.....

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2018, 08:36:30 PM »
I searched for the quote in OP, but the only exact match is a post on page 2 of this Metabunk thread.

It's similar but different from the abstract of this report.

Tom do you mind sharing your source?

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2018, 09:17:49 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.
What actual data and in what way?

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2018, 12:30:29 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.

Sigh, Tom... ADS-B makes the data ATC receives more accurate and provides an picture of local traffic to pilots. I know you want to tie this into a conspiracy, but the planes are still visible on ATC radar. It doesn't change their location. Also, it works via satellite, which means satellite data has been confirmed by radar. (win for RE)
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
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Offline Parallax

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2018, 12:42:06 PM »
It's NASA's way of keeping tabs on them, officially it will be to help, but in reality its so they can track where they go and what they do with regards to the ice wall.

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 01:09:08 PM »
It's NASA's way of keeping tabs on them, officially it will be to help, but in reality its so they can track where they go and what they do with regards to the ice wall.
Ding-ding-ding, we've got our conspiracy tie-in! Tell us, what prize has he won?

Seems far more likely they want access to some of the data from sats controlled by NASA to help them with tracking, and in return NASA gets some goodwill from Australia, and maybe some useful data. No conspiracy needed, simple greed suffices in wanting some good PR and a 'chip' from Australia as it were.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 01:22:23 PM »
It's NASA's way of keeping tabs on them, officially it will be to help, but in reality its so they can track where they go and what they do with regards to the ice wall.

Yeah, lots of commercial flights fly to the mystical ice wall. Does the military need planes to broadcast their presence locally in order to spot them? Last time I checked, radar works. Honestly, do you people even think about what you're posting?
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

I am Seeker of Truth

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 09:00:06 PM »
I came across this interesting quote:

"In August 2005, Airservices Australia (Airservices) and the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) signed a Letter of Agreement (LoA) to undertake collaborative research on Air Traffic Management (ATM) decision-support automation, communication, navigation and surveillance. One project completed under the LoA focused on validating the Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) In-Trail Procedure (ITP), a new airborne procedure that leverages the benefits of ADS-B to provide a means for pilots to make more informed requests of Air Traffic Service Providers (ATSPs) and enable altitude changes that previously would not have been approvable. Intended for use in non-RADAR (radio detection and ranging) airspace that employs procedural separation, the ITP uses airborne ADS-B data, onboard tools, and a new separation standard based on these data and tools to provide ADS-B-equipped aircraft with better access to preferred flight levels in oceanic and other remote airspace."

From airservicesaustralia.com: "Airservices is Australia's air navigation service provider"

What business does NASA have collaborating with foreign services for Air Traffic Control? Is NASA the Air Traffic Control authority of the world or something?
You say that quote is from: "airservicesaustralia.com: "Airservices is Australia's air navigation service provider"

I did quite a bit of searching on that web site and also using Google to search just that web site for various strings of text in what you quoted and I found nothing.

Kindly provide a direct link to that quote and in the future, provide direct links to any material you take from any website or document.

Don't quote something and then give a vague link to the website without specifying the full URL to the source. If someone, like myself, wants to read the entire document, they need to know where to find it.

Without any direct link to the material, why should we believe it is a true quote?

I am Seeker of Truth

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 09:03:35 PM »
So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now? Why can't Airservices Australia maintain their own systems or call upon on one of the many companies who specialize in that?

The fact that NASA is involved in the air traffic control systems in Australia creates distrust with the accuracy of Australian flight data.


NASA, China to Collaborate on Air Traffic Management Research

NASA and the Chinese Aeronautical Establishment (CAE) have signed a memorandum of understanding to cooperate on aeronautics research that will advance air transportation automation for U.S. and Chinese aviation operations in China.


That' from https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-china-to-collaborate-on-air-traffic-management-research

Does that mean we also can't trust the accuracy of China's data?

As to why NASA is involved with air traffic control, it is a part of their basic research on aviation and aeronautics. They do research in a lot of areas, as defined by their founding principles.

You asked "So it is part of NASA's mission to improve the air traffic control systems of foreign nations now?"

QUICK EDIT

Forgot to ask you for the source of that quote - I can't find it on their site using their search or using Google to search just that site.

Where did you get the quote? I'd like to read it and any related material.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 09:05:37 PM by I am Seeker of Truth »

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 11:28:21 PM »
Strange that y'all can't find the paper: top link when I searched for it:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120002577.pdf
If you've proven yourself immune to logic and incapable of reasonable debate, please understand that I won't be paying you much heed (this means you, Baby Thork, Sandokhan, Tom Bishop, and Totallackey).

Offline Tontogary

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Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2018, 11:48:01 PM »
It’s only an issue if you believe Nasa has somnethiong to hide (i dont) or is involved in the conspiracy (i dont) or are concerned with the collaboration between the 2 companies (i am not).

When I fly in Australia, I am happy in the knowledge that the pilots know where they are going using satellites, and charts based on the GE, I look out of the window, and see the coastline, and shape of the earth as mapped on a RE, and can follow why the plane is by the in flight tracker, (provided by GPS) and look at my watch, and can see we are on time, and are scheduled to land on time. I am not paranoid about business connections, and what it may be hiding.

Even if you did have an issue with Nasa for reasons of your own, then EVERY company that did subcontracting work, or any R&D or business whatsoever would be tainted in your mind.

I am pretty sure the list would include many thousands of such companies, and you would end up mistrusting most of the companies you deal with in your everyday life.

A rather sorry way to live I would suggest, and putting such fear into others is not doing anyone a public service.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

I am Seeker of Truth

Re: NASA influence in Australian Air Traffic Control
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 02:20:29 AM »
Strange that y'all can't find the paper: top link when I searched for it:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120002577.pdf

WTF!

OP said it was from airservicesaustralia.com: "Airservices is Australia's air navigation service provider"

He said nothing about nasa.gov

I searched on the website he said it was from: airservicesaustralia.com

If someone attributes a quote to specific source (airservicesaustralia.com) it is expected that the quote will be found there - it wasn't.

This seems to be an attempt to mislead people as to where quote come from!

If he knew the quote came from nasa.gov, why did he say "From airservicesaustralia.com" when it actually came from somewhere else.

He should provided a direct URL to the material in his original message so that people could go there, directly, and read the quote and the rest of the document.

Instead, he gives just the URL of a website sites Home page, where I, and I'm sure others, thought the quote could be found - even if we had to search the site for it.

This strikes me as an unethical and dishonest attempt to confuse people by quoting something, out of context by the way, and hope that people would not try to find the quote to read the entire document.

The OP said the quote was from airservicesaustralia.com: "Airservices is Australia's air navigation service provider" but it appears it quote is nowhere on that web site.

I am having to be very careful to not used any words that might be thought inappropriate and it is quite hard to do so.

This is just more of the smoke and mirrors you flat earthers use in every instance.

So - what search did you use; what search engine and what keywords?

I suspect you did an Internet wide search at someplace like Google on some of the text in the OP's supposed quote from airservicesaustralia.com
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 02:22:32 AM by I am Seeker of Truth »