[Stagiri]

Flights from Melbourne to Auckland take 3 hours and 35 minutes. In the FE model, airplanes would have to fly faster than the speed of sound to accomplish that. However, commercial airplanes, such as Boeing 737 and Airbus A320, cannot exceed the speed of sound. Could any FE believer explain me this situation?

[Stagiri]

No? Noone?

[douglips]

No? Noone?

I think you'll find this has been discussed before, if you search for Qantas or Sydney you might find some threads.

Mostly the topic has been about distances but the same principle applies.

[iamcpc]

No? Noone?

I had a similar question. The only people who really responded were non flat earthers who said that the flat earthers can't reply to this.

[Curious Squirrel]

No? Noone?

I think you'll find this has been discussed before, if you search for Qantas or Sydney you might find some threads.

Mostly the topic has been about distances but the same principle applies.

Indeed, we recently had a rather long discussion that covered a lot of this. See the second link in my signature to check it out OP. It didn't really get anywhere overall, and basically ended with FE proponents denying that we have any idea of how fast planes fly, saying we don't know the distance between just about any 2 cities, and that they have no map anyway to compare things against.

[Stagiri]

No? Noone?

I think you'll find this has been discussed before, if you search for Qantas or Sydney you might find some threads.

Mostly the topic has been about distances but the same principle applies.

Indeed, we recently had a rather long discussion that covered a lot of this. See the second link in my signature to check it out OP. It didn't really get anywhere overall, and basically ended with FE proponents denying that we have any idea of how fast planes fly, saying we don't know the distance between just about any 2 cities, and that they have no map anyway to compare things against.

I've just finished reading the thread. I'm in awe, it's truly an incredible one.

"Fortunately", since Mr. Bishop claims the lat/lon positioning system to be accurate only when determining one's position, and since I've used it for exactly that my calculations should be satisfactory and correct. Nevertheless, I'm working on methods that would be entirely independent of the lat/lon system.

[Stagiri]

So, let's determine the size of the angle α = ∠Auckland-North Pole-Melbourne (see the map), assuming the Earth to be flat and disregarding the lat/lon system.



We know that the Sun completes a full 360° rev in 1 day = 24 hours = 1440 minutes. In other words, it travels 1° per 4 minutes.
The Sun rises (and sets) 2 hours = 120 minutes earlier in Auckland than in Melbourne. That means the size of the angle α equals 120°/4 = 30°.


Next, let's prove that Auckland, the North Pole, and Melbourne form an isosceles triangle or more precisely that the distance between Auckland and the North Pole is the same as between Melbourne and the North Pole.

We know that the Sun travels in a circle, so its distance from the North Pole stays always the same. Now, we measure the azimuth of the Sun, at first as viewed from Melbourne at solar noon in Auckland and then as viewed from Auckland at solar noon in Melbourne (see the other map; solar noon is the time when the Sun is directly to the north/south of your position). Let's call those angles β and γ respectively. I won't bother you with boring mathematical expressions, all you need to know is that if β = γ then the distances equal too.



And guess what? β = 42,57° and γ = 42,7°. Therefore, the distances are almost the same.

[Stagiri]

Let's determine the distance between Auckland and Melbourne.

Firstly, let's calculate the radius of the equator. Its circumference is 40 000 km but let's assume a mistake was made and it's actually only about 38 000 km. Since c = 2πr, r = c/(2π) = 38000/(2π) = 6048 km.

Now, using the law of sines, we can determine the distance (R) between Auckland and the North Pole (σ = 180° - α - γ = 180° - 30° - 42,7° = 107,3°):



r/sin(γ) = R/sin(σ) -> R = (r*sin(σ))/sin(γ)

And knowing this relation, we can finally determine the distance (d) between Auckland and Melbourne (notice that there's a right-angled triangle).



sin(α/2) = d/(2R) -> d = 2Rsin(α/2) = (2*r*sin(σ)*sin(α/2))/sin(γ) = (2*6048*sin(107,3°)*sin(15°))/sin(42,7°) = 4408 km

Bear in mind that this is less than it's in reality because I've disregarded: elevation difference of Auckland and Melbourne, the fact that Melbourne is further from the North Pole than Auckland, and the actually measured circumference of the equator. Plus, it is the length of a straight line when in fact airplanes have to rise and descend and turn left and right. All of these factors make the length even greater in real.

The mean speed of the commercial airplane is v = d/t = 4408/3,5 = 1260 km/h. The maximal speed would be even greater in order to compensate lower speeds during takeoffs/landings. In reality, the maximum speed of commercial airplanes is only about 1000 km/h.

Moreover, the speed of sound is 1235 km/h. Dear FES, why don't we observe supersonic (and disintegrating) commercial airplanes?

[Stagiri]

Oh, by the way, all the measurements related to the Sun are executed on equinoxes so the Sun is directly above the equator.

[Macarios]

Knowing that Sun always travels 15 degrees per hour, you can measure longitude difference by measuring time between solar noon in Auckland and solar noon in Melbourne.
It is 1 hour, 59 minutes, 17 seconds, or 1.988 hours.
1 hour per 15 degrees equals 1.988 hours per x degrees.
x = 15 * 1.988 = 29.82.
So, it is 29.82 degrees between them.

Most common Flat Earth map is based on Gleason's projection and shows distances along meridians same on both models, Flat and Globe.
Distances from North pole will not be different between the two models.
Knowing that, we can find distance from North pole to Melbourne to be 14 200 km and from North pole to Auckland 14 095 km.

We can use it to calculate distance from Melbourne to Auckland on Flat model and get 7363 km.
3 hours and 35 minutes is 3.58 hours.
Required airplane speed for that is at least 2057 km/h or 1.6658 mach (1.6658 times faster than sound).

Globe model shows 2622 km and speed of 732 km/h.

EDIT: There is an error in this method. Can you find it? What difference would it make to correct the error?

[iamcpc]

Flights from Melbourne to Auckland take 3 hours and 35 minutes. In the FE model, airplanes would have to fly faster than the speed of sound to accomplish that. However, commercial airplanes, such as Boeing 737 and Airbus A320, cannot exceed the speed of sound. Could any FE believer explain me this situation?

Anything that suggest the earth is not flat is false and a lie. Anything that suggest the earth is flat is fact and truth.

Here's an example:

Flight times we observe suggest that the earth is round. Therefore flight times we observe are false and a lie. Someone is deliberately posting incorrect flight times to try to push a round earth agenda.

[Macarios]

Knowing that Sun always travels 15 degrees per hour, you can measure longitude difference by measuring time between solar noon in Auckland and solar noon in Melbourne.
It is 1 hour, 59 minutes, 17 seconds, or 1.988 hours.
1 hour per 15 degrees equals 1.988 hours per x degrees.
x = 15 * 1.988 = 29.82.
So, it is 29.82 degrees between them.

Most common Flat Earth map is based on Gleason's projection and shows distances along meridians same on both models, Flat and Globe.
Distances from North pole will not be different between the two models.
Knowing that, we can find distance from North pole to Melbourne to be 14 200 km and from North pole to Auckland 14 095 km.

We can use it to calculate distance from Melbourne to Auckland on Flat model and get 7363 km.
3 hours and 35 minutes is 3.58 hours.
Required airplane speed for that is at least 2057 km/h or 1.6658 mach (1.6658 times faster than sound).

Globe model shows 2622 km and speed of 732 km/h.

EDIT: There is an error in this method. Can you find it? What difference would it make to correct the error?

The error is straight line distance from Melbourne to Auckland.
In flat model those 7363 km are along latitude arc, and chord of that arc would be 7280 km.
Required FE speed of airplane would not be 2057 km/h, but "only" 2033.5 km/h, which is "only" 1.647 mach.