Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2018, 08:34:51 PM »
it's still far better than having 17 dead.
Yes.  But so is 0.

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That only works if you know which teachers are armed and there's only one of them. if only ten teachers are armed then the other 9 will have a heads up and plan accordingly. These shooters aren't Navy SEAL operators.
And teachers aren't cops.
And we all know cops shoot unarmed people more often than the should.  Do you really think a teacher with no real world experience in shooting people is going to do better?  And how do 10 teachers coordinate and plan?  What, do all 10 leave their classes and students helpless while they go hunting for anyone in the halls who has a gun?  Also, will you force 10 teachers to have guns per school or just volunteer?

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People will either duck, run back into the classrooms, or run away from the shooter. If the teacher hold in place and wait for the crowd to pass then he can engage him.
... Yes.  The teacher can hide until no one is left to shoot except the shooter, THEN jump out in the open and open fire.  You know that maryland shooting?  The cop and the shooter shot at each other simultaniously.  And that's a trained officer vs a kid with a pistol.  Imagine a trained (on a shooting range) teacher with a pistol vs a kid with an AR.  I'll take the AR anyday.


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Raising the age won't stop either this shooting or others. For one the average age of mass shooters is 34. Second, One of the Columbine shooters wasn't even old enough to vote.
It may stop some.  Very few, I admit, but some.  There is no "This law will fix everything".  We need many changes, many different things to chip away at all the various root causes because there are a LOT of them.  And eventually, mass shootings may be a rare event again. 

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2018, 11:28:59 PM »
it's still far better than having 17 dead.
Yes.  But so is 0.

Which you aren't going to get with a sign that says "no guns."
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That only works if you know which teachers are armed and there's only one of them. if only ten teachers are armed then the other 9 will have a heads up and plan accordingly. These shooters aren't Navy SEAL operators.
And teachers aren't cops.

They don't need to be.

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And we all know cops shoot unarmed people more often than the should. 
I beg to differ. Most "shooting unarmed people" incidents are justified. But leaving that aside, there really isn't much question when you hear multiple shots being fired whether or not you should shoot.
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Do you really think a teacher with no real world experience in shooting people is going to do better? 
Most cops go through their entire careers without ever shooting someone yet you want only them to respond in an active shooter incident?
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And how do 10 teachers coordinate and plan?  What, do all 10 leave their classes and students helpless while they go hunting for anyone in the halls who has a gun?  Also, will you force 10 teachers to have guns per school or just volunteer?
Clearing tactics and moving as a group isn't really that hard to learn. If suppose the shooter shoots one of the armed teachers, then the other teachers who are armed will be alerted and hold in place that gives him the best ambush angle. Also I don't want to force anyone to carry. If they want to then they should be able. If you already want to be armed then you already have the mindset of learning how to defend yourself and your students.
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People will either duck, run back into the classrooms, or run away from the shooter. If the teacher hold in place and wait for the crowd to pass then he can engage him.
... Yes.  The teacher can hide until no one is left to shoot except the shooter, THEN jump out in the open and open fire.  You know that maryland shooting?  The cop and the shooter shot at each other simultaniously.  And that's a trained officer vs a kid with a pistol.  Imagine a trained (on a shooting range) teacher with a pistol vs a kid with an AR.  I'll take the AR anyday.

Again, it's far better than what happened in Parkland. And there are active shooter courses for civilians available.

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Raising the age won't stop either this shooting or others. For one the average age of mass shooters is 34. Second, One of the Columbine shooters wasn't even old enough to vote.
It may stop some.  Very few, I admit, but some.  There is no "This law will fix everything".  We need many changes, many different things to chip away at all the various root causes because there are a LOT of them.  And eventually, mass shootings may be a rare event again. 

They actually are already. We have lesd mass shootings now than what we had 20 years ago.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

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Offline Beorn

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2018, 07:18:24 AM »
Which you aren't going to get with a sign that says "no guns."

Why would a sign be saying "no guns" be the only anti-gun measurement?

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And we all know cops shoot unarmed people more often than the should. 
I beg to differ. Most "shooting unarmed people" incidents are justified. But leaving that aside, there really isn't much question when you hear multiple shots being fired whether or not you should shoot.

[citation needed]
Am I in the right place?

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2018, 11:29:41 AM »
Which you aren't going to get with a sign that says "no guns."
You're right, you aren't.  Just like a sign that says "no parking" doesn't mean you won't get people parking there.  But the sign isn't there to stop everyone, the sign is there to tell you "it's not allowed and if we find out, you will be punished."


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They don't need to be.


Yeah... they kinda do.  Police protect civillians from those who break the law.  They don't even punish law breakers, they just stop them.  The judges and courts punish them.  So when you say "Teacher, your job is to stop students from breaking the law but only when it comes to murder" well... it's still "stop law breakers" thus, cops.
And on top of grading papers, learning the new curriculum (if your state changed shit) and managing 30+ students.... you have to run into an active shooting situation and hope you hit the right person who is likely gonna fire back.

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I beg to differ. Most "shooting unarmed people" incidents are justified. But leaving that aside, there really isn't much question when you hear multiple shots being fired whether or not you should shoot.

Right.
Like when cops shot an 11 year old who had a toy.
Or the most recent, cops shot a man who had a cell phone in his hand. (shot him like 20 times) then stood around for 10-20 min. demanding he show his hands cause they couldn't see it over the tall grass and were too chicken shit to walk up to him.



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Most cops go through their entire careers without ever shooting someone yet you want only them to respond in an active shooter incident?

I'll take a guy who literally signed up for the job to shoot others if needed over a guy who signed up to teach math.  Different mindset.  The math teacher didn't go into teaching because he wants to save people, stop criminals, and do a dangerous job.  He went in to help students learn, and become better.  Or because they like summer break.  Whatever the reason, I can assure you: The reasons to become a teacher are not the same as the reasons to become a police officer. 



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Clearing tactics and moving as a group isn't really that hard to learn. If suppose the shooter shoots one of the armed teachers, then the other teachers who are armed will be alerted and hold in place that gives him the best ambush angle. Also I don't want to force anyone to carry. If they want to then they should be able. If you already want to be armed then you already have the mindset of learning how to defend yourself and your students.


1. "group" tactics and moving requires coordination.  Mr. Stammens is in room 201 but Mr. Gaze is in the gym, on the other side of the building.  How the hell are they going to coordinate? And who in their right god damn mind is gonna leave their students in a room alone?

2. If you don't force, you can't guarentee "group" tactics.

3. What's the difference between a teacher with a gun, looking for the shooter and a shooter with a gun?  Nothing.  Absolultely nothing.  And if you think shooting an unarmed guy because he might have been holding a gun is justifiable, imagine what shooting an armed teacher with his gun out is gonna look like.


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Again, it's far better than what happened in Parkland. And there are active shooter courses for civilians available.

Yes.  Or we can just station an officer in each school.  Done.  No need for teachers, who TEACH, to go on a hunt for an active shooter.  The parkland guy never went in.  He was either afraid or got the wrong info.  And he KNEW he might have to get shot at one day.  He had the training.  Why would a teacher be better than a police officer?

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They actually are already. We have lesd mass shootings now than what we had 20 years ago.

>_>
20 years ago was 1998.
Hold on, let me pull up the mass shootings in 1998.
(via wikipedia)
1998 - 4 (total)
2018 - 3 (so far)

1999 - 6
2017 - 18


Feel free to show me some other data because you reeally need to back up your claim.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 05:42:07 AM by Lord Dave »

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2018, 01:31:11 PM »
Which you aren't going to get with a sign that says "no guns."

Why would a sign be saying "no guns" be the only anti-gun measurement?

No.
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And we all know cops shoot unarmed people more often than the should. 
I beg to differ. Most "shooting unarmed people" incidents are justified. But leaving that aside, there really isn't much question when you hear multiple shots being fired whether or not you should shoot.

[citation needed]

What do you need?
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2018, 01:32:50 PM »



By the time the criminal is punished for bringing a gun into a gun free zone, he already committed the crime he intended to do as shown in the recent shooting.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 11:15:41 PM by Luke 22:35-38 »
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2018, 02:02:09 PM »
@Luke you broke your quotes in your last post. Not sure what should read.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2018, 02:03:02 PM »
Yeah... Learn to quote.

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2018, 11:14:07 PM »
@Luke you broke your quotes in your last post. Not sure what should read.

Not sure what I did there. It's the very bottom portion.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2018, 11:17:17 PM »
Yeah... Learn to quote.

Actually you messed up your response toward me. I thought the rest of your post was directed to someone else and skipped to the end which I messed up.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #70 on: April 02, 2018, 05:43:16 AM »
Yeah... Learn to quote.

Actually you messed up your response toward me. I thought the rest of your post was directed to someone else and skipped to the end which I messed up.


You're right, my appologies.
I'm not sure why it fucked up.  Spent a good 15 min trying to fix it. Seems like the quote tag is case sensitive now...

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Offline Luke 22:35-38

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2018, 04:35:22 AM »
Yeah... Learn to quote.

Actually you messed up your response toward me. I thought the rest of your post was directed to someone else and skipped to the end which I messed up.


You're right, my appologies.
I'm not sure why it fucked up.  Spent a good 15 min trying to fix it. Seems like the quote tag is case sensitive now...
No worries.
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth"

Scripture, science, facts, stats, and logic is how I argue

Evolutionism is a religion. Can dumb luck create a smart brain?

Please PM me to explain sunsets.

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Offline Hollocron

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2018, 03:10:33 AM »

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2018, 12:04:13 PM »
Meh. We don't have the same fascination with guns over here.

I don't know the difference between the 58 genders on Tumblr either, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

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Offline Hollocron

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Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2018, 07:59:58 PM »
Meh. We don't have the same fascination with guns over here.

I know Europeans have a big fascination with alcohol. It has even less use than guns, but kills more people. Maybe we should ban it.

Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2018, 08:58:45 PM »
Meh. We don't have the same fascination with guns over here.

I know Europeans have a big fascination with alcohol. It has even less use than guns, but kills more people. Maybe we should ban it.
Do they?


Also, alcohol is a steralization agent used in a lot of things like hand soap.  Also used in food.
Sooo... More uses than guns. :P


All jokes aside,  cigarettes kill more than both of those.  We should ban them too.

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Offline Hollocron

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Re: Another "lord dave is retarded" thread
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2018, 10:44:00 PM »
Also, alcohol is a steralization agent used in a lot of things like hand soap.  Also used in food.
Sooo... More uses than guns. :P

It kills over twice as many people every year over guns. Alcohol will only be used for sterilization. All other uses will be banned.

cigarettes kill more than both of those.  We should ban them too.

Yes. We'll ban those too.


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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Another "lord dave is retarded" thread
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2018, 12:14:02 AM »
Also, alcohol is a steralization agent used in a lot of things like hand soap.  Also used in food.
Sooo... More uses than guns. :P

It kills over twice as many people every year over guns. Alcohol will only be used for sterilization. All other uses will be banned.

cigarettes kill more than both of those.  We should ban them too.

Yes. We'll ban those too.

With alcohol the most likely victim will be the user of the alcohol. Not always, but more than drunk driving. With guns, the victim more likely be someone that the gun user inflicted themselves on.

Moderate doses of alcohol have been shown to have beneficial health effects. Moderate doses of gun fire don’t kill you as much.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

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Offline Hollocron

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Re: Another "lord dave is retarded" thread
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2018, 12:37:16 AM »
With guns, the victim more likely be someone that the gun user inflicted themselves on.

Incorrect. In the US, most gun deaths are from suicide.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Another "lord dave is retarded" thread
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2018, 01:44:43 AM »
With guns, the victim more likely be someone that the gun user inflicted themselves on.

Incorrect. In the US, most gun deaths are from suicide.

Hey, fair enough!
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.