[beardo]

lol, fortuna is mad.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Stop having fun playing shitty games that I hate.

[Saddam Hussein]

Please stop shitposting.

Where is the fun in a game you can't lose at? 20 minutes into the game and you have power armor. This represents a wider problem in our society where everyone thinks they are destined for some greater purpose, and to be able to get there without any ingenuity or work.

While I agree that this sort of pandering and undeserved fawning over the player character is a big problem with Bethesda's last couple of games, I disagree with you as to its cause.  Games like NV - or, to give a more recent example, TW3 - have shown that it's entirely possible for more complex RPGs to have wide commercial appeal and win critical acclaim.  If Bethesda made a TES/Fallout title that returned the series to its RPG roots, it would still be a huge hit, if for no other reason than its brand.  Bethesda continues to dumb down and simplify their games not because it's what their audience wants, but because they think it's what their audience wants.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Please stop shitposting.

Reported for memberating. Enjoy your 100 day bum.

Bethesda continues to dumb down and simplify their games not because it's what their audience wants, but because they think it's what their audience wants.

How far up your own ass do you have to be to think you know more about the market demands than a company that's been thriving in this market for years, and certainly has paid a lot of money into market research? The direction the games take may not be what you want, but they're making a ton of money and Fallout 4 crushed it in the sales numbers.

[Saddam Hussein]

How far up your own ass do you have to be to think you know more about the market demands than a company that's been thriving in this market for years, and certainly has paid a lot of money into market research?

The direction the games take may not be what you want, but they're making a ton of money and Fallout 4 crushed it in the sales numbers.

This is just an appeal to authority, and a particularly weak authority at that.  Yes, I think I know more about what the market wants than the people at Bethesda.  They're obviously not very good at their jobs.  I don't see any reason to assume that they're much better at market research.  As it is, the way they lifted only the most superficial elements of the games they were inspired by suggests that they didn't understand at all what people liked about those games to begin with.  For example, it wasn't the dialogue wheel itself with its short little prompts for possible responses that people liked about Mass Effect's dialogue, it was the way you could demonstrate a strong personality, develop complex relationships with the other characters, change the flow of the game dramatically depending on how a conversation went, etc.  But in F4, you're playing as a stock blank slate protagonist giving stock yes/no answers.  The dialogue wheel serves no purpose but to (very poorly) disguise this.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Yes, I think I know more about what the market wants than the people at Bethesda.  They're obviously not very good at their jobs.

That far everybody. You must be that far up your own ass.

http://fortune.com/2015/11/16/fallout4-is-quiet-best-seller/
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Fallout-4-Has-Made-Tons-Money-So-Far-98947.html

[Saddam Hussein]

Wow, what a surprise, a game from a very popular developer in a very popular series was a commercial success!  It's almost as if that's why it was so popular to begin with.  It wasn't successful because it had a voiced protagonist, nor because it had a hollow dialogue system that superficially resembled Mass Effect's, nor because it had a Heart-Wrenching Personal Story™ about a separated family, nor because it scrapped skills entirely and gave only the slightest nod to character-building with a perk chart, nor because 99% of the game is just killing and looting.  It was successful because it was a Bethesda game and a Fallout game.  Nobody asked them to simplify the game or dumb it down.  Nobody wanted them to.  Bethesda chose to do so, and as a result, that's the game we ended up playing.  It means no more than that.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Nobody wanted them to.

Do you have any evidence for this outlandish claim? Because the market clearly indicates that Bethesda knows what they're doing. I loved the game, so I don't think you can fairly generalize your dissatisfaction to everyone.

[Saddam Hussein]

Nobody wanted them to.

Do you have any evidence for this outlandish claim? Because the market clearly indicates that Bethesda knows what they're doing. I loved the game, so I don't think you can fairly generalize your dissatisfaction to everyone.

And what was it that you loved about the game?  Being saddled with the voice of a dull Troy Baker-wannabe?  Four different ways of saying "yes" in dialogue?  The poetic tragedy of your never-ending search for your virtual son, whom you undoubtedly felt a very real connection to?

Or was it the more standard elements of the game, like exploring new locations, finding quests to do, and killing enemies in creative and spectacular ways?

[beardo]

It's fun. Pure and simple.

[Benjamin Franklin]

It's fun. Pure and simple.

[Saddam Hussein]

Also, we have a trailer for the first add-on:



Uh, maybe designing robots will be fun?

[Particle Person]

It looks fun.

[Benjamin Franklin]

Can confirm it will be fun: All Bethesda related things are fun.

[Crudblud]

Can confirm it will be fun: All Bethesda related things are fun.

Weren't you talking just the other day about how boring Morrowind is?

[Benjamin Franklin]

Can confirm it will be fun: All Bethesda related things are fun.

Weren't you talking just the other day about how boring Morrowind was?

I do say a lot of wacky shit, but I never played Morrowang much, so I don't think so.

[Saddam Hussein]

On the notion of paying for mods.  No, but seriously, what's the point of building monster cages and deathtraps?  Who are you going to use them on?  Companions?  Settlers?  Granted, this would be pretty cool if it were for a multiplayer game, but it seems like a waste here.

[beardo]

On the notion of paying for mods.  No, but seriously, what's the point of building monster cages and deathtraps?  Who are you going to use them on?  Companions?  Settlers?

Things that attack your shit, duh.

[Saddam Hussein]

Literally the very first thing we hear is "Please, bring my daughter home."  You know, just in case the parallels to Point Lookout weren't obvious enough.  And it just isn't Fallout unless the main story is a sappy, sentimental family melodrama.  Fuck you, Bethesda.  Also, nice re-using of geckos from NV, you fucking lazy hacks.

[Ghost Spaghetti]

Please stop shitposting.

Where is the fun in a game you can't lose at? 20 minutes into the game and you have power armor. This represents a wider problem in our society where everyone thinks they are destined for some greater purpose, and to be able to get there without any ingenuity or work.

While I agree that this sort of pandering and undeserved fawning over the player character is a big problem with Bethesda's last couple of games, I disagree with you as to its cause.  Games like NV - or, to give a more recent example, TW3 - have shown that it's entirely possible for more complex RPGs to have wide commercial appeal and win critical acclaim.  If Bethesda made a TES/Fallout title that returned the series to its RPG roots, it would still be a huge hit, if for no other reason than its brand.  Bethesda continues to dumb down and simplify their games not because it's what their audience wants, but because they think it's what their audience wants.

I think they're chasing a different audience.