The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Investigations => Topic started by: Dr David Thork on March 19, 2018, 08:10:29 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLPPE3_DVCw
People often ask us if we make much money out of flat earth. We don't make any. You want to follow the money trail? Look at this guy. He's just written another book, he has an entire chapter on rotundity. So who profits from telling you what shape the earth is?
Where's our royalties, Tyson? >o<
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Why don't you write a book then? Shouldn't be too difficult.
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Why don't you write a book then? Shouldn't be too difficult.
The royalties could be used by Tom who says he does not have the funding for any investigations.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLPPE3_DVCw
People often ask us if we make much money out of flat earth. We don't make any. You want to follow the money trail? Look at this guy. He's just written another book, he has an entire chapter on rotundity. So who profits from telling you what shape the earth is?
Where's our royalties, Tyson? >o<
I'm not denying Degrasse is a profiteer and likes attention, but anyone can see trying to claim he makes his money by promoting RET is twisting reality to fit a narrative.
He makes a living 'popularizing' science, RET is still science as much as you guys wish it wasn't.
And just because you aren't making money from the promotion of FE doesn't mean there aren't people trying to. I'm guessing you guys try to disassociate yourselves from Eric Dubay around here? I don't blame you, I dislike mentioning him too, but you brought up profiting from pushing the notion that the earth is a specific shape...
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I'm guessing you guys try to disassociate yourselves from Eric Dubay around here?
We made the mistake of trying to be nice to him early on. Turns out he thinks we're part of the conspiracy, and made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll be hostile towards us unless we hand the entire society over to him.
I don't blame you, I dislike mentioning him too, but you brought up profiting from pushing the notion that the earth is a specific shape...
I can't speak for Thork, but I don't think it was his intention to imply that no FE'er has ever tried profiteering from FET. It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
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The fact that DeGrasse feels the need to even write this chapter can only be in response to the inexplicable publicity the FES has been getting recently, fuelled by some celebrities.
He's already written a load of books, the round earth thing is but one chapter in his most recent book.
He's hardly cashing in on your guys.
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I'm guessing you guys try to disassociate yourselves from Eric Dubay around here?
We made the mistake of trying to be nice to him early on. Turns out he thinks we're part of the conspiracy, and made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll be hostile towards us unless we hand the entire society over to him.
I don't blame you, I dislike mentioning him too, but you brought up profiting from pushing the notion that the earth is a specific shape...
I can't speak for Thork, but I don't think it was his intention to imply that no FE'er has ever tried profiteering from FET. It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
So who are these for profit high-profile RE'ers?
I'm trusting that you aren't going to descend into some nonsense conspiracy theory btw, please don't prove me wrong on that.
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It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers
Why does it "seem" like this? Has a survey been done? Who are these high-profile RE'ers?
Seems to me (from my own personal viewing experience) that it's more likely to be the FEers, especially on YouTube, that are e-begging for money, whether that's through Paypal or Patreon 'donations', or through other means.....
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We made the mistake of trying to be nice to him early on. Turns out he thinks we're part of the conspiracy, and made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll be hostile towards us unless we hand the entire society over to him.
Does anyone have the e-mail in which he said this? Sounds like an interesting read.
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We made the mistake of trying to be nice to him early on. Turns out he thinks we're part of the conspiracy, and made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll be hostile towards us unless we hand the entire society over to him.
Does anyone have the e-mail in which he said this? Sounds like an interesting read.
I second this. I'd love to see the responses gotten by him.
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There already are a couple threads about this - I'll send the links over to both of you in a moment.
[edit: PM'd]
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I can't speak for Thork, but I don't think it was his intention to imply that no FE'er has ever tried profiteering from FET. It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
None of those people identify as an RE'r, though. Stephen Hawking or Albert Einstein weren't RE'rs, they were theoretical physicists. Same with deGrasse Tyson. Eratosthenes wasn't an RE'r, he was a mathemetician. Galileo wasn't an RE'r, he was an astronomer.
That they know (or knew) the earth is round is just a product of the evidence abundant in their fields of research.
And I apologize if you're talking about people other than deGrasse Tyson -- perhaps there are scientists that focus entirely on profiteering by proving the earth is round. I would be relatively surprised by that, though.
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Same with deGrasse Tyson
I disagree. If you write a book that's solely about the shape of the Earth, and do so for a profit, it is very likely you're trying to profiteer from the debate.
And I apologize if you're talking about people other than deGrasse Tyson -- perhaps there are scientists that focus entirely on profiteering by proving the earth is round. I would be relatively surprised by that, though.
There are other people, not necessarily high-profile pop scientists, who try to make a living out of it, but I won't provide them with a free advertisement here.
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Same with deGrasse Tyson
I disagree. If you write a book that's solely about the shape of the Earth, and do so for a profit, it is very likely you're trying to profiteer from the debate.
And do you regard that as a bad thing?
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I'm guessing you guys try to disassociate yourselves from Eric Dubay around here?
We made the mistake of trying to be nice to him early on. Turns out he thinks we're part of the conspiracy, and made it clear in no uncertain terms that he'll be hostile towards us unless we hand the entire society over to him.
I don't blame you, I dislike mentioning him too, but you brought up profiting from pushing the notion that the earth is a specific shape...
I can't speak for Thork, but I don't think it was his intention to imply that no FE'er has ever tried profiteering from FET. It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
So you still won't substantiate the claim that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers? Because a basic google search will show how many books are on the market pushing FE... Not so much the other way round.
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Same with deGrasse Tyson
I disagree. If you write a book that's solely about the shape of the Earth, and do so for a profit, it is very likely you're trying to profiteer from the debate.
That might be the topic of the book, but that book is not the extent of deGrasse Tyson's work. His name wasn't built through FE debate, it was built through being a highly-regarded astrophysicist.
Compare that to Rowbotham, who spent his life selling tickets to debates (which he would run from if he didn't have an answer) to spread his name.
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If you write a book that's solely about the shape of the Earth, and do so for a profit, it is very likely you're trying to profiteer from the debate.
Are you referring specifically to one of NDT's books? Which one?
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That might be the topic of the book, but that book is not the extent of deGrasse Tyson's work. His name wasn't built through FE debate, it was built through being a highly-regarded astrophysicist.
I do not contest that. However, his career as an astrophysicist does not justify this act of profiteering. I do agree that he could be much worse, but that doesn't make his recent actions good. In this case, I'm condemning an action, not an individual's entire career.
Compare that to Rowbotham, who spent his life selling tickets to debates (which he would run from if he didn't have an answer) to spread his name.
That's a particularly selective and disingenuous description of Rowbotham, but the man was far from a saint.
The fact that DeGrasse feels the need to even write this chapter can only be in response to the inexplicable publicity the FES has been getting recently, fuelled by some celebrities.
Thank you for the compliment, however roundabout it may be.
He's already written a load of books, the round earth thing is but one chapter in his most recent book.
Not solely on this debate, no. There are plenty more suckers buying into pop scientists.
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We made the mistake of trying to be nice to him early on. Turns out he thinks we're part of the conspiracy,
Mr Dubay considers all who do not conform to his particular philosophical worldview to be controlled opposition.
On religious conviction's he makes a good athiest, but he is not a racist per say, he hates everyone equally.
I don't see him as a money grabber, sure, he wrote a book and had an insurance payout once for an injury.
I think he is a sincere man who hates institutionalised religion almost more than he hates round earth.
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One might say, controlled opposition is anyone he doesn't control.
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However, his career as an astrophysicist does not justify this act of profiteering.
I don’t get what your problem is.
Not do I see why he has to justify this.
He’s a scientist and author.
He doesn’t have to justify to anyone what he writes about.
If people want to buy his book then they can’t but no one is forcing them to.
I don’t get what you think he’s actually done wrong.
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He doesn’t have to justify to anyone what he writes about.
I'm not sure that is how peer review works.
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He doesn’t have to justify to anyone what he writes about.
I'm not sure that is how peer review works.
Whoa. You're sure you want to bring the idea of peer review onto these forums?
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He doesn’t have to justify to anyone what he writes about.
I'm not sure that is how peer review works.
He’s not publishing scientific papers, he’s writing popular science books.
They don’t need to be peer reviewed.
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He doesn’t have to justify to anyone what he writes about.
I'm not sure that is how peer review works.
He's writing a book about accepted scientific ideas... No need for peer review, even bringing peer review up in this context is bordering on churlish.
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That might be the topic of the book, but that book is not the extent of deGrasse Tyson's work. His name wasn't built through FE debate, it was built through being a highly-regarded astrophysicist.
I do not contest that. However, his career as an astrophysicist does not justify this act of profiteering. I do agree that he could be much worse, but that doesn't make his recent actions good. In this case, I'm condemning an action, not an individual's entire career.
Compare that to Rowbotham, who spent his life selling tickets to debates (which he would run from if he didn't have an answer) to spread his name.
That's a particularly selective and disingenuous description of Rowbotham, but the man was far from a saint.
The fact that DeGrasse feels the need to even write this chapter can only be in response to the inexplicable publicity the FES has been getting recently, fuelled by some celebrities.
Thank you for the compliment, however roundabout it may be.
He's already written a load of books, the round earth thing is but one chapter in his most recent book.
Not solely on this debate, no. There are plenty more suckers buying into pop scientists.
OK, I'll cave on this one. Degrasse is profiteering off of debunking FE.
The world still isn't flat.
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It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
I find it confusing that you find this strange.
Why wouldn't it be easier to make money from a model that is accepted by more people?
Of course, it would also be easier to make money from a model that is true, but even outside of any arguments of truth, wouldn't it just make sense that the more popular theory would be easier to "sell"?
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It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
I find it confusing that you find this strange.
Why wouldn't it be easier to make money from a model that is accepted by more people?
Of course, it would also be easier to make money from a model that is true, but even outside of any arguments of truth, wouldn't it just make sense that the more popular theory would be easier to "sell"?
If it's so obvious the world is round, why would there be money in proving it?
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It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
I find it confusing that you find this strange.
Why wouldn't it be easier to make money from a model that is accepted by more people?
Of course, it would also be easier to make money from a model that is true, but even outside of any arguments of truth, wouldn't it just make sense that the more popular theory would be easier to "sell"?
If it's so obvious the world is round, why would there be money in proving it?
Where is anyone making money proving the earth is round? I've yet to see anyone post anything to show there is a sizable number of people making money out of debunking FE.
A simple google search however will bring up plenty of FE snake peddlers (eg try typing 'Flat Earth Books' in).
This thread is rediculous, what in the A does it have to do with the actual shape of the earth?
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It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
I find it confusing that you find this strange.
Why wouldn't it be easier to make money from a model that is accepted by more people?
Of course, it would also be easier to make money from a model that is true, but even outside of any arguments of truth, wouldn't it just make sense that the more popular theory would be easier to "sell"?
If it's so obvious the world is round, why would there be money in proving it?
Where is anyone making money proving the earth is round? I've yet to see anyone post anything to show there is a sizable number of people making money out of debunking FE.
A simple google search however will bring up plenty of FE snake peddlers (eg try typing 'Flat Earth Books' in).
This thread is rediculous, what in the A does it have to do with the actual shape of the earth?
It shows a concerted effort to convince people the earth is round. No one goes around convincing you that grass is green or the sky is blue, so why so much effort in convincing you the earth is round?
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It does seem, however, that there are more high-profile for-profit RE'ers than FE'ers, which is strange, given how RE is already the "obvious" and widely accepted model.
I find it confusing that you find this strange.
Why wouldn't it be easier to make money from a model that is accepted by more people?
Of course, it would also be easier to make money from a model that is true, but even outside of any arguments of truth, wouldn't it just make sense that the more popular theory would be easier to "sell"?
If it's so obvious the world is round, why would there be money in proving it?
Where is anyone making money proving the earth is round? I've yet to see anyone post anything to show there is a sizable number of people making money out of debunking FE.
A simple google search however will bring up plenty of FE snake peddlers (eg try typing 'Flat Earth Books' in).
This thread is rediculous, what in the A does it have to do with the actual shape of the earth?
It shows a concerted effort to convince people the earth is round. No one goes around convincing you that grass is green or the sky is blue, so why so much effort in convincing you the earth is round?
That's because there aren't any twits claiming the sky is orange... If there was a movement claiming the sky was orange then we'd be forced to defend the fact that the sky is blue.
Come on, that's pretty bloody reasonable.
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That's because there aren't any twits claiming the sky is orange...
The sky is often orange.
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That's because there aren't any twits claiming the sky is orange...
The sky is often orange.
Yes, well done, get your silly little wins where you can.
This thread is a stupid distraction.
Why wouldn't a scientist put a little time and effort into pushing back against claims that his profession is a sham?
The only slightly interesting aspect to the thread is the ratio of FE to RE profiteers, but even then FE'ers are happy to assert that there are a 'size able number of high-profile RE'ers making money out of FE' but refuse to provide any names with the laughable excuse that they do not wish to promote them!
Come on guys, this is weak.
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And do you regard that as a bad thing?
Yes. (Sorry, I missed that message earlier)
I don’t get what your problem is.
Not do I see why he has to justify this.
He’s a scientist and author.
He doesn’t have to justify to anyone what he writes about.
Oh, he has every right to do so if he so desires. But it is an opportunistic cash-grab, and those of us who don't like opportunistic cash-grabs may disapprove. And he has every right not to give a damn.
This thread is a stupid distraction.
A distraction from what? You do realise that this is a discussion forum, right? There's no explicit objective, and no final boss that you desperately want to get to. Everything is optional and voluntary. If you do not wish to discuss the subject, no one's forcing you1.
but refuse to provide any names with the laughable excuse that they do not wish to promote them!
Look, I'm not a fan of how SEO works, either. More to the point, what's your laughable excuse for not simply Googling them?
1 - Unless you're an FE'er. In that case, expect people constantly asking why you're not interested in some discussions, and acting as if they were entitled to your attention.
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This thread is a stupid distraction.
A distraction from what? You do realise that this is a discussion forum, right? There's no explicit objective, and no final boss that you desperately want to get to. Everything is optional and voluntary. If you do not wish to discuss the subject, no one's forcing you1.
but refuse to provide any names with the laughable excuse that they do not wish to promote them!
Look, I'm not a fan of how SEO works, either. More to the point, what's your laughable excuse for not simply Googling them?
1 - Unless you're an FE'er. In that case, expect people constantly asking why you're not interested in some discussions, and acting as if they were entitled to your attention.
Erm, you do realize you made the claim there was a high number of high profile RE profiteers and offered up the fact that you would not back up the claim yourself?
Please don't try to make it look like I'm badgering you for info out of nowhere.
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And do you regard that as a bad thing?
Yes. (Sorry, I missed that message earlier)
This thread is a stupid distraction.
A distraction from what? You do realise that this is a discussion forum, right? There's no explicit objective, and no final boss that you desperately want to get to. Everything is optional and voluntary. If you do not wish to discuss the subject, no one's forcing you1.
but refuse to provide any names with the laughable excuse that they do not wish to promote them!
Look, I'm not a fan of how SEO works, either. More to the point, what's your laughable excuse for not simply Googling them?
1 - Unless you're an FE'er. In that case, expect people constantly asking why you're not interested in some discussions, and acting as if they were entitled to your attention.
And I am happy to discuss, that's what I'm doing, just my angle on this particular discussion is that it's a distraction from the actual shape of the earth.
Is that ok with you?
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Erm, you do realize you made the claim there was a high number of high profile RE profiteers and offered up the fact that you would not back up the claim yourself?
Yes. We're too high-profile a site for me to give them the PageRank. I'm sorry if that upsets you.
Please don't try to make it look like I'm badgering you for info out of nowhere.
It was a much more general comment. Don't take things so personally, even if you do fit the description.
And I am happy to discuss, that's what I'm doing, just my angle on this particular discussion is that it's a distraction from the actual shape of the earth.
Is that ok with you?
Quite literally, no. Posting about how you don't like a certain subject is off-topic posting, which is not seen to kindly in the upper fora. Refer to the forum rules. If you find a topic uninteresting or distracting, simply don't engage with it. There's no reason to write an exposé about it.
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Erm, you do realize you made the claim there was a high number of high profile RE profiteers and offered up the fact that you would not back up the claim yourself?
Yes. We're too high-profile a site for me to give them the PageRank. I'm sorry if that upsets you.
Please don't try to make it look like I'm badgering you for info out of nowhere.
It was a much more general comment. Don't take things so personally, even if you do fit the description.
And I am happy to discuss, that's what I'm doing, just my angle on this particular discussion is that it's a distraction from the actual shape of the earth.
Is that ok with you?
Quite literally, no. Posting about how you don't like a certain subject is off-topic posting, which is not seen to kindly in the upper fora. Refer to the forum rules. If you find a topic uninteresting or distracting, simply don't engage with it. There's no reason to write an exposé about it.
What 'upsets me' is you making claims and using ridiculously flimsy excuses as to why you won't provide any evidence of your claims.
Why make the claim in the first place?
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What 'upsets me' is you making claims and using ridiculously flimsy excuses as to why you won't provide any evidence of your claims.
Why make the claim in the first place?
It's a claim that's easily verifiable without me providing an indexable advert on this forum. And if you think my reasoning is a "flimsy excuse" - well, I can't help you with that one. My personal ethics and sense of what is right are not going to budge to appease your entitlement.
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You know what, forget it, you really aren't worth it.
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Oh, he has every right to do so if he so desires. But it is an opportunistic cash-grab, and those of us who don't like opportunistic cash-grabs may disapprove.
Far as I understand it, his book is not solely about the earth being round, it's just another of his science books.
He devotes a chapter to it, I guess in part because of the recent interest in this movement.
If anything it's a compliment to you guys, the publicity is such that he feels it's something worthy of responding to.
If he's an author then he's obviously going to write about things he thinks people would be interested in reading about.
He's not making money out of some tragedy so I don't see the problem here.
Isn't Tom writing a book, an updated ENaG? If so won't he be making money out of the recent interest in this movement?
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It shows a concerted effort to convince people the earth is round. No one goes around convincing you that grass is green or the sky is blue, so why so much effort in convincing you the earth is round?
What is this forum, if not a concerted effort to prove the Earth is flat?
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It shows a concerted effort to convince people the earth is round. No one goes around convincing you that grass is green or the sky is blue, so why so much effort in convincing you the earth is round?
What is this forum, if not a concerted effort to prove the Earth is flat?
Actually, I'm not sure it is.
They state that the earth is flat without any basis, they declare it an "obvious truth" in the Wiki.
So I think this site is to discuss issues around that, I don't think they're trying to convince anyone.
If anything it's the Round Earthers who come on here to try and prove the earth isn't flat (myself included, to be fair)
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Oh, he has every right to do so if he so desires. But it is an opportunistic cash-grab ...
What do you think of the FE YouTubers who have a Paypal link, a Patreon link, and other revenue streams hard-coded into all their video uploads, and blithely ask for "donations" so they can make more videos?
Do you view that as an "opportunistic cash-grab" ??
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Does the IRS make money out of these guys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWLfnFBsgLE
Would you say the scammers are IRS profiteers and blame the IRS for them?
Just because there are people out there trying to make money from flat earth shenanigans doesn't mean they are endorsed by the flat earth movement. Mr Tyson is endorsed by RET. He doesn't get a free pass.
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There is no Round Earth Society.
There is no question about what the earth looks like except in the minds of a few people who well, don't mind much.
Mr Tyson expresses his views about science and being a qualified astro physicist, his views are respected especially as they are right.
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And he is profiting from the flat earth movement.
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And he is profiting from the flat earth movement.
Indirectly maybe. If you lot publicising the idea of a flat earth helps him sell one more book then I guess that's true, but so what?
You're the ones trying to push this. He's not trading on your or anyone else's misery.
If this has become in the public consciousness enough that he thinks it's worthy of a response then if anything it's a compliment.
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Oh, he has every right to do so if he so desires. But it is an opportunistic cash-grab ...
What do you think of the FE YouTubers who have a Paypal link, a Patreon link, and other revenue streams hard-coded into all their video uploads, and blithely ask for "donations" so they can make more videos?
Do you view that as an "opportunistic cash-grab" ??
I can't speak for Pete I suppose but I certainly do. There are a lot of people out there exploiting the movement for money on both sides and I find it detestable. It's one of the reasons I doubt the sincerity of some of these YouTubers.
I'm proud of the fact that after all these years neither forum I've chosen to be a part of has engaged in such shenanigans.
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I'm with Roundy on this. It's also why I've largely been avoiding YouTube FE'ers.
I guess I might consider making an exception if the revenue stream was strictly there to cover costs and nothing more, but it would take a lot of explaining and convincing to make that case properly. I think it's fair to assume that they are doing it for a profit.
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I'm with Roundy on this. It's also why I've largely been avoiding YouTube FE'ers.
I guess I might consider making an exception if the revenue stream was strictly there to cover costs and nothing more, but it would take a lot of explaining and convincing to make that case properly. I think it's fair to assume that they are doing it for a profit.
Yet you and others here haven't stepped up to take them to task for "cashing in", but when NDT includes one chapter in his book (which seems to cover a wide range of other topics), he's pilloried for it ... ?
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Yet you and others here haven't stepped up to take them to task for "cashing in"
What makes you say that? I think I've been pretty clear about my position.
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The man is clearly profiting from the flat earth movement, that much is clear. Why else does he keep constantly going on about it? Though he's actually giving a platform to us, as it makes people look at the flat earth movement and hopefully see the reality for themselves.
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The man is clearly profiting from the flat earth movement, that much is clear. Why else does he keep constantly going on about it? Though he's actually giving a platform to us, as it makes people look at the flat earth movement and hopefully see the reality for themselves.
His profits from any comments on FEH would be minimal. US kids already lack the skills needed to compete globally due to lacking science education. NDT is trying to raise awareness about it. FEH is a great tool for that. I know you guys take yourselves and FEH very seriously, but you're just wrong. Look at all the little patches that have to be applied to it just to make it match observations that naturally arise from a round Earth. UA, magical perspective, "celestial" gravitation, shadow objects, ice walls, etc, etc, etc... It isn't real and the fewer people that think it is, the better.