The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Rounder on May 17, 2016, 03:32:17 PM
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Considering the Equinox Day path of the sun over a flat earth, which we are told will be a flat circle directly above the equator. In the FE model the sun never actually goes below the horizon, only appearing to do so because of distance and perspective, in much the same way that birds and airplanes appear to drop toward the horizon as they fly away from us. (You have no doubt guessed or remembered that I disagree with that assessment, but that isn’t my point today.) Suppose we accept the premise for the moment, and consider specifically the position of sunrise on Equinox Day.
It is common knowledge, which you can directly observe for yourself on Sept 22, that the sun rises exactly due east on Equinox Day, for everyone on earth. Let’s choose a spot on the equator from which to conduct a thought experiment: I’ve chosen Pedernales, Ecuador as an example, located on the equator at 80° West. At sunrise in Pedernales, it is high noon 90° east of there, at 10° East. That puts the sun at a spot over the African town of Oyan, in Gabon. Oyan is due east of Pedernales from a circumpolar, magnetic compass, navigational view of things in the round earth view. But we’re not talking about a round earth now; we’re talking about a flat earth, above which the sun is a quarter way around a curved path above the equator. This puts the line-of-sight to Oyan (and therefore, to any spot above it) at quite a few degrees to the left of due east. From the equator, the sun above a flat earth is not exactly due east on Equinox Day, nor indeed on any day. In fact, drawing lines due east from the meridian at 80° West, one finds that none of those lines point at Oyan, meaning there isn’t a single spot on earth that will see the sun rising directly due east until you get far enough north for “east” to become meaningless.
In order for the flat earth explanations for sunrise and sunset to match the real world observations, a mechanism must be proposed to explain the apparent sideways shift in the sun's observed position as it gets further away from the observer. On Equinox Day, the sun should be to the left of due east at sunrise; it appears to be exactly due east. The sun should be to the right of due west at sunset; it appears to be exactly due west.
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Considering the Equinox Day path of the sun over a flat earth, which we are told will be a flat circle directly above the equator. In the FE model the sun never actually goes below the horizon, only appearing to do so because of distance and perspective, in much the same way that birds and airplanes appear to drop toward the horizon as they fly away from us. (You have no doubt guessed or remembered that I disagree with that assessment, but that isn’t my point today.) Suppose we accept the premise for the moment, and consider specifically the position of sunrise on Equinox Day.
It is common knowledge, which you can directly observe for yourself on Sept 22, that the sun rises exactly due east on Equinox Day, for everyone on earth. Let’s choose a spot on the equator from which to conduct a thought experiment: I’ve chosen Pedernales, Ecuador as an example, located on the equator at 80° West. At sunrise in Pedernales, it is high noon 90° east of there, at 10° East. That puts the sun at a spot over the African town of Oyan, in Gabon. Oyan is due east of Pedernales from a circumpolar, magnetic compass, navigational view of things in the round earth view. But we’re not talking about a round earth now; we’re talking about a flat earth, above which the sun is a quarter way around a curved path above the equator. This puts the line-of-sight to Oyan (and therefore, to any spot above it) at quite a few degrees to the left of due east. From the equator, the sun above a flat earth is not exactly due east on Equinox Day, nor indeed on any day. In fact, drawing lines due east from the meridian at 80° West, one finds that none of those lines point at Oyan, meaning there isn’t a single spot on earth that will see the sun rising directly due east until you get far enough north for “east” to become meaningless.
In order for the flat earth explanations for sunrise and sunset to match the real world observations, a mechanism must be proposed to explain the apparent sideways shift in the sun's observed position as it gets further away from the observer. On Equinox Day, the sun should be to the left of due east at sunrise; it appears to be exactly due east. The sun should be to the right of due west at sunset; it appears to be exactly due west.
Related to your point, here's a link to a video which shows how anybody can test for the shape of the earth by observing the sun's motion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUzCRIecTMU
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Considering the Equinox Day path of the sun over a flat earth, which we are told will be a flat circle directly above the equator. In the FE model the sun never actually goes below the horizon, only appearing to do so because of distance and perspective, in much the same way that birds and airplanes appear to drop toward the horizon as they fly away from us. (You have no doubt guessed or remembered that I disagree with that assessment, but that isn’t my point today.) Suppose we accept the premise for the moment, and consider specifically the position of sunrise on Equinox Day.
It is common knowledge, which you can directly observe for yourself on Sept 22, that the sun rises exactly due east on Equinox Day, for everyone on earth. Let’s choose a spot on the equator from which to conduct a thought experiment: I’ve chosen Pedernales, Ecuador as an example, located on the equator at 80° West. At sunrise in Pedernales, it is high noon 90° east of there, at 10° East. That puts the sun at a spot over the African town of Oyan, in Gabon. Oyan is due east of Pedernales from a circumpolar, magnetic compass, navigational view of things in the round earth view. But we’re not talking about a round earth now; we’re talking about a flat earth, above which the sun is a quarter way around a curved path above the equator. This puts the line-of-sight to Oyan (and therefore, to any spot above it) at quite a few degrees to the left of due east. From the equator, the sun above a flat earth is not exactly due east on Equinox Day, nor indeed on any day. In fact, drawing lines due east from the meridian at 80° West, one finds that none of those lines point at Oyan, meaning there isn’t a single spot on earth that will see the sun rising directly due east until you get far enough north for “east” to become meaningless.
In order for the flat earth explanations for sunrise and sunset to match the real world observations, a mechanism must be proposed to explain the apparent sideways shift in the sun's observed position as it gets further away from the observer. On Equinox Day, the sun should be to the left of due east at sunrise; it appears to be exactly due east. The sun should be to the right of due west at sunset; it appears to be exactly due west.
Related to your point, here's a link to a video which shows how anybody can test for the shape of the earth by observing the sun's motion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUzCRIecTMU
I have tried this sort of argument.
First I claimed that at either equinox the sun rises (almost exactly) due east and sets (almost) due west. The reply from Tom Bishop, "Prove it happens everywhere!"
And then as you can imagine it deteriorated into useless time wasting - ie a 100% successful result for Tom Bishop.
And of course I get nowhere claiming that I know that here the sun rises due east etc, etc!
Best of luck, sure hope you get further than I did!
By the way, the video won't make any impression. - It has big words like "hyperbolic" - Flat Earthers don't do big words.
- It has experiments (unrelated to curvature) - Flat Earthers don't do experiments unrelated to curvature.
- It has sums - Flat Earthers don't do sums, especially if they involve hyperbolas.
Still worth a try.
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I have tried this sort of argument.
First I claimed that at either equinox the sun rises (almost exactly) due east and sets (almost) due west. The reply from Tom Bishop, "Prove it happens everywhere!"
And then as you can imagine it deteriorated into useless time wasting - ie a 100% successful result for Tom Bishop.
And of course I get nowhere claiming that I know that here the sun rises due east etc, etc!
Best of luck, sure hope you get further than I did!
By the way, the video won't make any impression. - It has big words like "hyperbolic" - Flat Earthers don't do big words.
- It has experiments (unrelated to curvature) - Flat Earthers don't do experiments unrelated to curvature.
- It has sums - Flat Earthers don't do sums, especially if they involve hyperbolas.
Still worth a try.
Flat earthers find it hard to remove their butts out of their computer chair, their eyes away from their computer screen, and their heads out of the sand !!!
So exasperating... !!
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I have tried this sort of argument.
First I claimed that at either equinox the sun rises (almost exactly) due east and sets (almost) due west. The reply from Tom Bishop, "Prove it happens everywhere!"
And then as you can imagine it deteriorated into useless time wasting - ie a 100% successful result for Tom Bishop.
And of course I get nowhere claiming that I know that here the sun rises due east etc, etc!
Best of luck, sure hope you get further than I did!
By the way, the video won't make any impression. - It has big words like "hyperbolic" - Flat Earthers don't do big words.
- It has experiments (unrelated to curvature) - Flat Earthers don't do experiments unrelated to curvature.
- It has sums - Flat Earthers don't do sums, especially if they involve hyperbolas.
Still worth a try.
Flat earthers find it hard to remove their butts out of their computer chair, their eyes away from their computer screen, and their heads out of the sand !!!
So exasperating... !!
Yes, it seems that they just will not respond to posts they find hard to refute (either that or mine are too boring)
I tried to show that the shape did not fit in Measurements of the Earth Prove it cannot be Flat « on: May 05, 2016, 09:05:22 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4979.msg96293#msg96293).
But very little response.
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Yes, it seems that they just will not respond to posts they find hard to refute (either that or mine are too boring)
I tried to show that the shape did not fit in Measurements of the Earth Prove it cannot be Flat « on: May 05, 2016, 09:05:22 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4979.msg96293#msg96293).
But very little response.
This has been my experience as well. My Infrared Radiation (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4870.0) post has drawn exactly zero responses. Too much scientific method, not enough "look out your window" I suspect.
Also my Sound of Krakatoa (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4816.0) post has twelve responses, but nine of them are my fellow round earthers. It drew only one serious reply from a flat earther (he claims to 'not know one way or the other' but never offers objection to any one but round earthers) and two other non-serious flat responses.