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Offline Tau

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 03:10:48 AM »
First off, you are assuming I agree with Loving v. Virginia. I don't. I think SCOTUS exceeded its authority there, too. I think the Sovereign States should have been left to make that decision. And no, I disagree with you. The only reason States aren't sovereign (any more) is the South's loss of the Civil War, and earlier, the Anti-Federalists' loss in the creation of the American government.

And personally, although I don't presume to tell two people who can marry whom, I don't personally like interracial marriage. Miscegenation, to be quite frank, offends my sensibilities. If you want to do it, feel free, but don't ask me to fucking like it.

Dude, what the fuck?

Quote
And yes, the National Guard can be Federalised. They can also refuse to be Federalised, by refusing to follow an order they consider to be in violation of their own State's constitution.

Technically this is possible, sort of, but it also would never happen, especially in the hypothetical instance you're proposing.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Offline juner

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 03:11:20 AM »
Again, legislating civil rights doesn't work when the majority is fine with discrimination.

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Offline Tau

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 03:18:09 AM »
Again, legislating civil rights doesn't work when the majority is fine with discrimination.

What do you mean? The passing of the Civil Rights Act did wonders for the racial wage gap, and with this new ruling Texan gays can get married. Bigots still exist (look at Yaakov!), and this probably won't change anyone's minds, but it still has a profound impact on the lives of the people affected. I'd call that working.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 03:21:41 AM »
First off, you are assuming I agree with Loving v. Virginia. I don't. I think SCOTUS exceeded its authority there, too. I think the Sovereign States should have been left to make that decision. And no, I disagree with you. The only reason States aren't sovereign (any more) is the South's loss of the Civil War, and earlier, the Anti-Federalists' loss in the creation of the American government.

And personally, although I don't presume to tell two people who can marry whom, I don't personally like interracial marriage. Miscegenation, to be quite frank, offends my sensibilities. If you want to do it, feel free, but don't ask me to fucking like it.

Dude, what the fuck?

Hey. I didn't bring it up. I just responded to it. I don't particularly like miscegenation. I don't believe in mistreating anyone. That kind of shit is entirely unnecessary. Everyone should be afforded equal opportunities no matter what they look like. But I don't have to agree with the practice, and I don't. Just because you want to do it doesn't mean I have to fucking like it.

Quote
Quote
And yes, the National Guard can be Federalised. They can also refuse to be Federalised, by refusing to follow an order they consider to be in violation of their own State's constitution.

Technically this is possible, sort of, but it also would never happen, especially in the hypothetical instance you're proposing.

The Guard has only been Federalised once. So we don't know if it would ever refuse, do we?

I'm still hoping a Governor or two will have the cajones to refuse to do the whole gay thing. And frankly, I tried the interracial thing. Didn't have kids. But I almost married a girl who had four kids. All by the same father. She was Black, quite beautiful, so were the kids. It didn't work out, and for damn good reason. We chose to separate on good terms. And there were good reasons for the separation. I don't know how she feels about the idea of interracial business now. But I know how I feel about it. I was even married to a Chinese. No kids again. Again, a bad idea.

Now I am married to a lilly white girl. Smartest move I ever made.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 03:24:59 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline Tau

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2015, 03:29:44 AM »
...

I mean, you have the right to your own opinion. It's just kind of a fucked up opinion, is all.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Saddam Hussein

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2015, 03:35:01 AM »
Okay, if the legal arguments in this thread have sunk to "well maybe the military will mutiny," then there's really nothing left to discuss.

Also, oy vey, I'm such a Jew!  Jew Jew Jew!  Have I mentioned I'm a Jew today?  Jew!

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2015, 03:36:43 AM »
...

I mean, you have the right to your own opinion. It's just kind of a fucked up opinion, is all.

I think the Sovereign States should make all social decisions. The Federal Government is in the business of conducting commerce, fighting wars against foreign nations, and levying taxes in support of same. It has NO business doing anything else. The States are, or at least should be, Sovereign Nations in all respects except those basic things in which they are too small to act for themselves. Making social decisions is certainly within their ability.

And Saddam, you're a fucking idiot. What does my ethno-religious status have to do with any of this, aside from the the fact that you are obviously an anti-Semitic fuck for bringing it up at all?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 03:40:24 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline juner

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2015, 04:13:10 AM »

Again, legislating civil rights doesn't work when the majority is fine with discrimination.

What do you mean? The passing of the Civil Rights Act did wonders for the racial wage gap, and with this new ruling Texan gays can get married. Bigots still exist (look at Yaakov!), and this probably won't change anyone's minds, but it still has a profound impact on the lives of the people affected. I'd call that working.

Maybe there was some confusion regarding my point. Yes, legislation that protects civil rights is greatly beneficial. However, overcoming discriminatory legislation is difficult and you often have to drag people kicking and screaming into the future where minorities can actually receive equal protection. This is one of the reasons the Supreme Court is needed, because if you leave it up to the majority, they tend to historically favor discrimination.

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2015, 04:53:02 AM »
... the Anti-Federalists' loss in the creation of the American government.

So basically your entire argument is:
The US government was created in a way I don't like and thus it's wrong.

Here's a tip:
Move to Israel.  You'll like it there.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Tom

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2015, 04:31:22 PM »
Why would you ask the state for permission when you want to live together with a wo(man)?
You would have to ask the state for permission again when you want to end the relationship.

How stupid is that?


Rama Set

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2015, 04:42:04 PM »
Why would you ask the state for permission when you want to live together with a wo(man)?
You would have to ask the state for permission again when you want to end the relationship.

How stupid is that?

There are legal ramifications to marriage so to have it regulated is a good idea. If you want it deregulated then you have to strip all the benefits such taxation and legal privilege away.

Tom

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2015, 04:44:56 PM »
Why would you ask the state for permission when you want to live together with a wo(man)?
You would have to ask the state for permission again when you want to end the relationship.

How stupid is that?

There are legal ramifications to marriage so to have it regulated is a good idea. If you want it deregulated then you have to strip all the benefits such taxation and legal privilege away.

Marriage is all about money and financial security. In order to have these benifits, you turn over your power to the state (and some power to your partner).

How stupid is that?

Rama Set

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2015, 04:51:09 PM »
Why would you ask the state for permission when you want to live together with a wo(man)?
You would have to ask the state for permission again when you want to end the relationship.

How stupid is that?

There are legal ramifications to marriage so to have it regulated is a good idea. If you want it deregulated then you have to strip all the benefits such taxation and legal privilege away.

Marriage is all about money and financial security. In order to have these benifits, you turn over your power to the state (and some power to your partner).

How stupid is that?

What power is being turned over?  You are being asked to fill out some paper work and pay a nominal fee. Regardless, that is not all marriage is about. Who said that or why would you think that?  All I am saying is that if the government decides to confer some benefit for marriage on to its citizens, it seems perfectly reasonable that they have some way to track who are receiving those benefits and who is not, doesn't it?

Tom

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2015, 04:56:37 PM »
Why would you ask the state for permission when you want to live together with a wo(man)?
You would have to ask the state for permission again when you want to end the relationship.

How stupid is that?

There are legal ramifications to marriage so to have it regulated is a good idea. If you want it deregulated then you have to strip all the benefits such taxation and legal privilege away.

Marriage is all about money and financial security. In order to have these benifits, you turn over your power to the state (and some power to your partner).

How stupid is that?

What power is being turned over?  You are being asked to fill out some paper work and pay a nominal fee. Regardless, that is not all marriage is about. Who said that or why would you think that?  All I am saying is that if the government decides to confer some benefit for marriage on to its citizens, it seems perfectly reasonable that they have some way to track who are receiving those benefits and who is not, doesn't it?

I'm not against it, but I'm just pointing out that you ask the state for permission to marry and have to ask the state for permission to divorce. You have to ask and pay a lawyer and the state (judge) will decide if you can separate from someone else and who gets what (children, money, etc).

I think it's pretty stupid to hand over this power to the state. The state will decide what you can do with your life and what not.

Rama Set

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2015, 05:09:22 PM »
Don't register your marriage with the State then. You can do that, you just won't get any recognition or benefit from the State. Simple no?  Much simpler than you are making it out to be.

Tom

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2015, 05:27:20 PM »
Don't register your marriage with the State then. You can do that, you just won't get any recognition or benefit from the State. Simple no?  Much simpler than you are making it out to be.

You get it!

Rama Set

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2015, 05:44:15 PM »
Don't register your marriage with the State then. You can do that, you just won't get any recognition or benefit from the State. Simple no?  Much simpler than you are making it out to be.

You get it!

Why were you making a big deal then?

Tom

Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2015, 06:00:22 PM »
Don't register your marriage with the State then. You can do that, you just won't get any recognition or benefit from the State. Simple no?  Much simpler than you are making it out to be.

You get it!

Why were you making a big deal then?

big????? maybe for you.

Offline Blanko

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2015, 10:26:47 PM »
Off-topic discussion split into AR.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: US Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2015, 01:54:05 AM »
Why should gay marriage be legal?