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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #620 on: April 11, 2016, 02:56:58 PM »
To the fickle American electorate, "Drumpf" does sound silly, just as "Trump" sounds impressive.  Even if you disagree, that was Oliver's argument.
I'm seeing a trend here. "Ratzinger" sounds funny, as is "Drumpf". Are you sure you (or the fickle American electorate) don't just find German names hilarious? If so, how can you argue that this stems from anything other than blatant xenophobia? Dummköpfe.

I quite like Rosenbaum's take on this situation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/03/03/john-olivers-donald-drumpf-jokes-play-on-the-same-ugly-xenophobia-trump-does/

americans arent well versed in 19th century german surnames
You're looking at the 17th century here. Yes, it's that petty. John Oliver is making fun of someone for changing their surname nearly 400 years ago.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:02:59 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #621 on: April 11, 2016, 03:50:34 PM »
You're looking at the 17th century here. Yes, it's that petty. John Oliver is making fun of someone for changing their surname nearly 400 years ago.

eh, i really think the joke oliver is making is not "he's german!" but "lol drumpf is a dumb sounding name."  i don't think the bit would work if trump's surname had once been muller or weber or something.

tbh i also don't care about rushy calling cruz rafael; i'm only suggesting that americans are even dumber than you give us credit. 
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Offline Roundy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #622 on: April 11, 2016, 04:46:45 PM »
John Oliver is a comedian. The Drumpf thing was a joke. I wouldn't be the least surprised if it was intended to be a riff on the Donald's xenophobic attitude. It is funny to me that a conservative columnist , not to mention some people here, are taking it so seriously.

Yes, we find many foreign names humorous sounding. If you want to argue there's insidious racism motivating that you are entitled to your opinion, but I rather doubt it's something that is specific to Americans.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #623 on: April 11, 2016, 06:30:01 PM »
John Oliver is a comedian.
That's a rather generous description.

The Drumpf thing was a joke. I wouldn't be the least surprised if it was intended to be a riff on the Donald's xenophobic attitude. It is funny to me that a conservative columnist , not to mention some people here, are taking it so seriously.
What conservative columnist?

Also, I'm just sick of the "racism/sexism/xenophobia is ok when we do it, it's just a prank bro!" attitude that the American left so loves to flaunt. You guys need to pick a side and stick to it - anything else is cheating.

Yes, we find many foreign names humorous sounding. If you want to argue there's insidious racism motivating that you are entitled to your opinion, but I rather doubt it's something that is specific to Americans.
I mean, given Americans' general level of awareness regarding the outside world, there's plenty of reason to suspect that you finding German names funny is rooted in xenophobia, and that it's specific to Americans.

i'm only suggesting that americans are even dumber than you give us credit. 
Fair enough.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 06:34:27 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #624 on: April 11, 2016, 06:49:03 PM »

Also, I'm just sick of the "racism/sexism/xenophobia is ok when we do it, it's just a prank bro!" attitude that the American left so loves to flaunt. You guys need to pick a side and stick to it - anything else is cheating.


It sounds like you are saying context and intention have no effect on the meaning of a communication.  If that were the case, a lot of humor in general would be completely impossible.  John Oliver was clearly engaging in satire around the brand value of the Trump name; he basically said as much at the outset.  If you don't appreciate it, that is fine, but don't pretend that this sort of humor is indistinguishable from serious comments. 

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #625 on: April 11, 2016, 08:05:19 PM »
It sounds like you are saying context and intention have no effect on the meaning of a communication.
No, I'm saying that xenophobic jokes are still xenophobic, regardless of being jokes. "It's just a joke lol!" is a very poor excuse if you're trying to criticise someone else for their (alleged) xenophobia.
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #626 on: April 11, 2016, 11:01:17 PM »
yeah americans are super xenophobic of 17th century germans

ffs wtf are you even talking about

John Oliver is a comedian.
That's a rather generous description.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 02:48:01 AM by garygreen »
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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #627 on: April 12, 2016, 01:01:47 AM »
yeah americans are super xenophobic of 17th century germans

ffs wtf are you even talking about

1. makes fun of a german name because it "sounds funny"
2. wants a clearly American assimilated man and his family to revert to his "hilarious" german name
3. calls the man with german heritage hitler

The evidence adds up in the favor of these people being germanphobes.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #628 on: April 12, 2016, 02:00:50 AM »
change 'germay' to any other country and the joke is exactly as funny.  change 'drumpf' to 'muller' and the joke doesn't make any sense at all.  it's not about germany.  it's about the name 'drumpf' sounding dumb.

have y'all actually seen the bit?  the setup is that name trump literally sounds like success.  the punchline is that his ancestral name sounds goofy and silly and stupid.  i really don't get how anyone could watch that bit and think that the joke has anything to do with the name being german, or even foreign.  he even uses the word onomatopoeia to describe why it's funny.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 02:47:04 AM by garygreen »
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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #629 on: April 12, 2016, 02:11:17 AM »
change 'germay' to any other country and the joke is exactly as funny.  change 'drumpf' to 'muller' and the joke doesn't make any sense at all.  it's not about germany.  it's about the name 'drumpf' sounding dumb.

have y'all actually seen the bit?  the setup is that name trump literally sounds like success.  the punchline is that his ancestral name sounds goofy and silly and stupid.  i really don't get how anyone could watch that bit and think that the joke has anything to do with the name being german, or even foreign.  he even uses the word onomatopoeia to describe why it's funny.

Sounds like a thin excuse for Germanphobia to me. Why are you so afraid of Germans, gary?

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #630 on: April 12, 2016, 02:41:51 AM »
Why are you so afraid of Germans, gary?

have you ever smelled a german?  gross.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #631 on: April 12, 2016, 03:13:41 AM »
Why are you so afraid of Germans, gary?

have you ever smelled a german?  gross.

There it is, folks. Germanphobia. I propose we ban Gary for being a racist, bigot, sexist, Germanphobic ableist cis pig.

Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #632 on: April 12, 2016, 03:54:26 AM »
Why are you so afraid of Germans, gary?

have you ever smelled a german?  gross.

There it is, folks. Germanphobia. I propose we ban Gary for being a racist, bigot, sexist, Germanphobic ableist cis pig.

psh that's so vanilla.  i'm also ageist, orientalist, imperialist, anthropocentric, and urbanist.

but, as my avatar attests, not homophobic.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 04:17:47 AM by garygreen »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #633 on: April 12, 2016, 09:03:24 AM »
Rushy pretty much covered the subject by now, but hey:

change 'germay' to any other country and the joke is exactly as funny.  change 'drumpf' to 'muller' and the joke doesn't make any sense at all.
Look, this may make super perfect sense to you, but I'm not a xenophobe, so you may have to spell it out for me. The name "Drumpf" sounds like any other German name. The joke doesn't make any sense at all regardless of what name or country you pick1 -- unless you accept the axiom that foreign names are somehow funny.

If I am to assume good faith, your argument is that if his ancestor's name2 was a German name that's more commonly3 known in America, the joke would no longer be funny. In other words, if only his name was less foreign and more like our proper names, the joke would no longer be funny to you.

it's not about germany.  it's about the name 'drumpf' sounding dumb.
Explain how it sounds dumb without invoking nationalities or native languages. In other words, explain it without invoking xenophobia.

he even uses the word onomatopoeia to describe why it's funny.
Damn, he must be so educated and smart. Too bad he's still a bigoted asshole.

Imagine the outrage "comedians" of Oliver's calibre would try to spin if it turned out that "Clinton" meant something funny in a foreign language, or if someone tried calling her "Glympton" to make it sound "funny" (I still don't get it - am I doing it right?). It would be so xenophobic and sexist! But this is okay, because it's about Trump, and Trump is a big meanie.

You people are pathetic.

1 - Except for the "lol Trump is Hitler" bit, of course - his great great great [...] grandfather being German totally helps there.
2 - Four hundred years ago.
3 - Currently. I mean, it's 2016!!!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 09:28:19 AM by SexWarrior »
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #634 on: April 12, 2016, 02:41:10 PM »
good faith
lol you're currently pretending to be offended by something just to stick it to someone.

Explain how it sounds dumb without invoking nationalities or native languages. In other words, explain it without invoking xenophobia.
ok...i'll let oliver speak for himself:

"Trump does sound rich.  It's almost onomatopoeic.  Trump! is the sound of a mouthy servant being slapped across the face with a wad thousand dollar bills.  Trump! is the sound of a cork popping on a couple's Champaignneversary: the day renovations to the wine cellar were finally completed...Drumpf is much less magical. It’s the sound produced when a morbidly obese pigeon flies into the window of a foreclosed Old Navy.  Drumpf! It’s the sound of a bottle of store-brand root beer falling off the shelf in a gas station minimart."

i'm going to make up a name: boof.  i've never heard this name before, and if it's real, then i have no idea where it comes from.  the joke is exactly the same if you replace drumpf with boof:

"Trump does sound rich.  It's almost onomatopoeic.  Trump! is the sound of a mouthy servant being slapped across the face with a wad thousand dollar bills.  Trump! is the sound of a cork popping on a couple's Champaignneversary: the day renovations to the wine cellar were finally completed...Boof is much less magical. It’s the sound produced when a morbidly obese pigeon flies into the window of a foreclosed Old Navy.  Boof! It’s the sound of a bottle of store-brand root beer falling off the shelf in a gas station minimart."

the origin of the name is irrelevant.  drumpf, like boof, is an onomatopoeia.  that's the joke.  the joke doesn't work with any funny sounding name.  it that's drumpf is an onomatopoeia.  for example, bumgarner is a really funny sounding german name, but the joke wouldn't make sense at all using that name.

Imagine the outrage "comedians" of Oliver's calibre would try to spin if it turned out that "Clinton" meant something funny in a foreign language, or if someone tried calling her "Glympton" to make it sound "funny" (I still don't get it - am I doing it right?). It would be so xenophobic and sexist! But this is okay, because it's about Trump, and Trump is a big meanie.

You people are pathetic.

which people?  people who aren't offended by the john oliver bit? 

if the clintons used to be the comptons, i would think that was p funny.  would you not?  that's a funny juxtaposition.

the problem here is that you're all bothered about things you just assume i must believe and not what i've actually said. you think liberals are too easily offended, and of course i must be liberal because i said a liberal thing, and somehow you conceive of this as giving a liberal a taste of his own medicine/demonstrating a contradiction/whatever.  that's all that's happening here.  but, i'm not in the 'everything is offensive and terrible' group, so maybe leave me out of that debate.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 03:31:32 PM by garygreen »
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #636 on: April 12, 2016, 06:16:24 PM »
lol you're currently pretending to be offended by something just to stick it to someone.
I'm not really offended. I'm just not a fan of making fun of people's nationalities, much less a fan of "haunting" someone with the nationality of their forefathers 4 centuries ago.

It's more of an "ummm that's not in good taste" thing, not a "OH NO YOU DIDN'T" thing. It does disgust me in the same way an old mouldy sandwich would. It's strongly unappealing, but not outrageous.


ok...i'll let oliver speak for himself:

[...]

i'm going to make up a name: boof.  i've never heard this name before, and if it's real, then i have no idea where it comes from.  the joke is exactly the same if you replace drumpf with boof:

[...]

the origin of the name is irrelevant.  drumpf, like boof, is an onomatopoeia.  that's the joke.  the joke doesn't work with any funny sounding name.  it that's drumpf is an onomatopoeia.  for example, bumgarner is a really funny sounding german name, but the joke wouldn't make sense at all using that name.
Okay, so he'd make another joke about how funny and German his name is. I don't see where you're going with this.

which people?  people who aren't offended by the john oliver bit?
People who pretend to care about discrimination, but are happy to discriminate when it suits them. As I said: pick a side.

if the clintons used to be the comptons, i would think that was p funny.  would you not?  that's a funny juxtaposition.
I don't get it.

the problem here is that you're all bothered about things you just assume i must believe and not what i've actually said.
Actually, I was criticising Saddam and Rushy. You just kind of rocked up and assumed I'm talking about you. It's probably because you're so easily offen-

you think liberals are too easily offended, and of course i must be liberal [...]
oh

Seriously, though, until you started really insisting to force yourself into the discussion, my responses to you consisted of a quick correction (17th century, not 19th) and a "Fair enough". Each of these was tacked on at the end of one of my posts. That's not to say I don't want you to get involved in the conversation, but it's rich to assume that I was talking about you.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #637 on: April 12, 2016, 10:08:35 PM »
You are right, there's absolutely no line between what is appropriate for a comedian to say and what is appropriate for a potential world leader to say and we are all hypocrites for laughing at John Oliver while at the same time  calling Drumpf a monster.  Omg I'm like totes for seriously. Thank you for opening my mind to what an intolerant bigot I am.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #638 on: April 12, 2016, 10:40:50 PM »
Oh, don't worry, I wasn't hoping to convince you. I was mostly curious to see if I'm missing something, or if you're just racist (so much that you're willing to go back 400 years in your desperate search. You're beating birthers on that front by quite a margin!). But no matter how many opportunities I give you to explain yourselves, all you have to say is "it's just a prank bro!" or "wow how ridiculous!"

EDIT: Actually, no, I take it back. You did partially admit it.

Yes, we find many foreign names humorous sounding. If you want to argue there's insidious racism motivating that you are entitled to your opinion

Yes, I'm entitled to my opinion that things which are xenophobic by definition are, in fact, xenophobic. Thank you for allowing me to consider that truism.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:48:07 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: 2016 US Presidential Race
« Reply #639 on: April 13, 2016, 01:26:23 AM »
For it to be -phobic, it must by definition, be driven by fear. Laughing at a foreign name does not, by necessity, satisfy that definition. Onomatopoeia can easily be another explanation, which is the reason John Oliver offers, so why do you dismiss that out of hand?