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I. The Facts
II. Round Earth Explanation
III. Flat Earth Explanation
I. The Facts
1. Facing North, stars circle around a single point in the sky. This is called the North Celestial Pole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_pole#Finding_the_north_celestial_pole).
2. Facing South, stars circle a different point in the sky. This is called the South Celestial Pole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_pole#Finding_the_south_celestial_pole).
3. In the Northern Hemisphere, the North Celestial Pole is above the horizon, and the South Celestial Pole is an equal distance below* the horizon.
4. In the Southern Hemisphere, the South Celestial Pole is above the horizon, and the North Celestial Pole is an equal distance below* the horizon.
5. The North Celestial Pole is due north. The South Celestial Pole is due south. They are in exactly opposite directions from one another.
(http://imgur.com/pbzmZfN.png)
Here are both celestial poles in one image. North Celestial Pole is on the left above the horizon. South Celestial Pole is on the right, below the horizon. Forgive the distortion, it's a panoramic image:
(http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1403/archtrails_brady_960.jpg)
* Obviously we can't actually see the celestial pole that is below the horizon. However, we can approximate it's position by extrapolating the paths of the stars.
II. Round Earth Explanation
The earth is a rotating sphere. From our perspective, the stars appear to be rotating around us. The elevation of each celestial pole depends on your location on the earth.
At 30 degrees north of the equator, the North Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees above the horizon and the South Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees below the horizon. Likewise, at 30 degrees south of the equator, the South Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees above the horizon and the North Celestial Pole will be 30 degrees below the horizon.
(http://imgur.com/plalvVn.png)
You can confirm for yourself that the elevation of each celestial pole corresponds exactly with your own latitude.
III. Flat Earth Explanation
Obviously, the visibility of the South Celestial Pole presents a problem for the flat earth model. If the stars are all rotating around a vertical axis, then the South Celestial Pole should be below the earth. In order to see it, one would have to peek over the edge. "Celestial Gears" are the most common solution to this problem that I have seen. I have never seen a particularly detailed explanation of how they work, but I assume it is something like this:
(http://imgur.com/v7FtuqJ.png)
However, this still presents some problems.
1. There has never been a report of anyone seeing an intersection between the various South Celestial Poles. Considering that mankind has been navigating the oceans by the stars for several hundred years, this seems unlikely.
2. The South Celestial Pole is always exactly due South. It is always 180 degrees in the opposite direction of North. In the "Celestial Gears" model, moving east or west would cause the South Celestial Pole to no longer be due South. There would be a non 180 degree angle between the North Celestial Pole and South Celestial Pole.
(http://imgur.com/aPgncKh.png)
The Bipolar Model (http://wiki.tfes.org/File:Altmap.png) has the exact same problem.
In conclusion, the visibility of the South Celestial Pole is in direct contradiction with the flat earth model. The earth isn't flat.
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*chirp*
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere and cannot see where in the sky the South Celestial pole is, so stop making untrue claims.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and I know that the Southern Cross and the South Celestial pole are both very real.
Anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the facts or is intentionally trying to deceive us!
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere and cannot see where in the sky the South Celestial pole is, so stop making untrue claims.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and I know that the Southern Cross and the South Celestial pole are both very real.
Anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the facts or is intentionally trying to deceive us!
As we understand very well that all of you are saying lie. You are just argue what you need for say against FE's. But you are not true.
Just prove what you say with use to compass on the SP like NP. Why don't you do that? because it is a lie. You are just working a job depends on saying lie. If not, why don't you prove you are true?
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere and cannot see where in the sky the South Celestial pole is, so stop making untrue claims.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and I know that the Southern Cross and the South Celestial pole are both very real.
Anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the facts or is intentionally trying to deceive us!
As we understand very well that all of you are saying lie. You are just argue what you need for say against FE's. But you are not true.
Just prove what you say with use to compass on the SP like NP. Why don't you do that? because it is a lie. You are just working a job depends on saying lie. If not, why don't you prove you are true?
Your compass has nothing to do with it. Here the North end of the compass points about 11° East of true North and the South end points about 11° West of true South.
I can't help it if you are ignorant about the Southern Hemisphere!
The fact is that down here the stars appear to rotate clockwise about a point we call the South Celestial Pole. Where I live, the South Celestial Pole is exactly South (not magnetic South) and about 27° above the horizon. The constellation Crux (Southern Cross) rotates about the South Celestial Pole and about 30° from it.
Now you can jump up and down as much as you like, but that is all perfectly true. Look it up in any reference you like, unless you think that you are the great infallible "İntikam" who knows everything that there is to know.
We'll, I am afraid in the posts you been making lately you have proved that there is lot that you do not know about the earth.
So stop being such a "know-it-all" and admit that you are wrong, because in this matter of the South Celestial Pole you most certainly wrong.
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere and cannot see where in the sky the South Celestial pole is, so stop making untrue claims.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and I know that the Southern Cross and the South Celestial pole are both very real.
Anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the facts or is intentionally trying to deceive us!
As we understand very well that all of you are saying lie. You are just argue what you need for say against FE's. But you are not true.
Just prove what you say with use to compass on the SP like NP. Why don't you do that? because it is a lie. You are just working a job depends on saying lie. If not, why don't you prove you are true?
Your compass has nothing to do with it. Here the North end of the compass points about 11° East of true North and the South end points about 11° West of true South.
I can't help it if you are ignorant about the Southern Hemisphere!
The fact is that down here the stars appear to rotate clockwise about a point we call the South Celestial Pole. Where I live, the South Celestial Pole is exactly South (not magnetic South) and about 27° above the horizon. The constellation Crux (Southern Cross) rotates about the South Celestial Pole and about 30° from it.
Now you can jump up and down as much as you like, but that is all perfectly true. Look it up in any reference you like, unless you think that you are the great infallible "İntikam" who knows everything that there is to know.
We'll, I am afraid in the posts you been making lately you have proved that there is lot that you do not know about the earth.
So stop being such a "know-it-all" and admit that you are wrong, because in this matter of the South Celestial Pole you most certainly wrong.
Stop with talking me continuesly saying "stop for this, stop for that". Be sure you can't stop me. be sure nobody or nothing can the capability of stopping me. My moving will forward to down all of the system depends on lies. You are just some liars just working for confusing the people. Your tactics don't work on me. Still don't you understand it? I'm not a stupid. I'm extra clever, extra faithfull and stepped foot firmly on the ground. So stop trying to divert me to believe your nonsences or left believing to the truth. You can not succeed it.
I'm telling you prove the south pole is exist with compass. You can prove magnetic south except Geographic south. As both us know that you can't do that because there isin't. So now you must start to producing confusing lies. Lets start!
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere and cannot see where in the sky the South Celestial pole is, so stop making untrue claims.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and I know that the Southern Cross and the South Celestial pole are both very real.
Anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the facts or is intentionally trying to deceive us!
As we understand very well that all of you are saying lie. You are just argue what you need for say against FE's. But you are not true.
Just prove what you say with use to compass on the SP like NP. Why don't you do that? because it is a lie. You are just working a job depends on saying lie. If not, why don't you prove you are true?
Your compass has nothing to do with it. Here the North end of the compass points about 11° East of true North and the South end points about 11° West of true South.
I can't help it if you are ignorant about the Southern Hemisphere!
The fact is that down here the stars appear to rotate clockwise about a point we call the South Celestial Pole. Where I live, the South Celestial Pole is exactly South (not magnetic South) and about 27° above the horizon. The constellation Crux (Southern Cross) rotates about the South Celestial Pole and about 30° from it.
Now you can jump up and down as much as you like, but that is all perfectly true. Look it up in any reference you like, unless you think that you are the great infallible "İntikam" who knows everything that there is to know.
We'll, I am afraid in the posts you been making lately you have proved that there is lot that you do not know about the earth.
So stop being such a "know-it-all" and admit that you are wrong, because in this matter of the South Celestial Pole you most certainly wrong.
Stop with talking me continuesly saying "stop for this, stop for that". Be sure you can't stop me. be sure nobody or nothing can the capability of stopping me. My moving will forward to down all of the system depends on lies. You are just some liars just working for confusing the people. Your tactics don't work on me. Still don't you understand it? I'm not a stupid. I'm extra clever, extra faithfull and stepped foot firmly on the ground. So stop trying to divert me to believe your nonsences or left believing to the truth. You can not succeed it.
I'm telling you prove the south pole is exist with compass. You can prove magnetic south except Geographic south. As both us know that you can't do that because there isin't. So now you must start to producing confusing lies. Lets start!
I know what I see with my own eyes, you only have you own guesses.
No-one can prove that the South Pole exists using a compass and you cannot prove it doesn't exist with a compass. The South Magnetic Pole is thousands of miles from the South Pole.
Still I don't care any more what you claim. It doesn't alter any or the facts.
And you never care about facts or evidence, you think you are so smart that you know everything, well you don't, but keep dreaming.
Bye, bye
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Sounds like întikam needs to learn the difference between magnetic, and celestial poles.
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Sounds like întikam needs to learn the difference between magnetic, and celestial poles.
Intikam, this thread is about the South Celestial Pole (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Swirling_Star_Trails_Over_Yepun.jpg/1920px-Swirling_Star_Trails_Over_Yepun.jpg). Not the magnetic south pole. Not the geographic south pole.
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Since no explanation has been given, I'm going to add this to the list of proofs in the info repository. They didn't have an explanation for it on the "other site" either, but at least they gave a lame attempt at an explanation. This site has gotten a bit sparse...
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Sounds like întikam needs to learn the difference between magnetic, and celestial poles.
Sounds like întikam needs to learn.
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SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP.
You live in the Northern Hemisphere and cannot see where in the sky the South Celestial pole is, so stop making untrue claims.
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and I know that the Southern Cross and the South Celestial pole are both very real.
Anyone who says otherwise is simply ignorant of the facts or is intentionally trying to deceive us!
As we understand very well that all of you are saying lie. You are just argue what you need for say against FE's. But you are not true.
Just prove what you say with use to compass on the SP like NP. Why don't you do that? because it is a lie. You are just working a job depends on saying lie. If not, why don't you prove you are true?
Your compass has nothing to do with it. Here the North end of the compass points about 11° East of true North and the South end points about 11° West of true South.
I can't help it if you are ignorant about the Southern Hemisphere!
The fact is that down here the stars appear to rotate clockwise about a point we call the South Celestial Pole. Where I live, the South Celestial Pole is exactly South (not magnetic South) and about 27° above the horizon. The constellation Crux (Southern Cross) rotates about the South Celestial Pole and about 30° from it.
Now you can jump up and down as much as you like, but that is all perfectly true. Look it up in any reference you like, unless you think that you are the great infallible "İntikam" who knows everything that there is to know.
We'll, I am afraid in the posts you been making lately you have proved that there is lot that you do not know about the earth.
So stop being such a "know-it-all" and admit that you are wrong, because in this matter of the South Celestial Pole you most certainly wrong.
Stop with talking me continuesly saying "stop for this, stop for that". Be sure you can't stop me. be sure nobody or nothing can the capability of stopping me. My moving will forward to down all of the system depends on lies. You are just some liars just working for confusing the people. Your tactics don't work on me. Still don't you understand it? I'm not a stupid. I'm extra clever, extra faithfull and stepped foot firmly on the ground. So stop trying to divert me to believe your nonsences or left believing to the truth. You can not succeed it.
I'm telling you prove the south pole is exist with compass. You can prove magnetic south except Geographic south. As both us know that you can't do that because there isin't. So now you must start to producing confusing lies. Lets start!
I know what I see with my own eyes, you only have you own guesses.
No-one can prove that the South Pole exists using a compass and you cannot prove it doesn't exist with a compass. The South Magnetic Pole is thousands of miles from the South Pole.
Still I don't care any more what you claim. It doesn't alter any or the facts.
And you never care about facts or evidence, you think you are so smart that you know everything, well you don't, but keep dreaming.
Bye, bye
If you don't care any more what i claim, so why do you still trying to answer almost all of my posts? Because you need to me for feeding. You are nothing without me or who like me. :)
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If you don't care any more what i claim, so why do you still trying to answer almost all of my posts? Because you need to me for feeding. You are nothing without me or who like me. :)
I answer you posts because others need to know just how wrong you are, that is all!
I don't care what YOU think, you are totally indoctrinated with the idea that the earth is flat so as far as you are concerned anything against you belief must be faked or a lie.
You don't care about facts or evidence, because you think that you are the smartest person in the world and can be never be wrong,
but i have to tell you that you are often wrong.
You might not read my posts, but some others might and find out where you are wrong.
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
That's if he bothered listening! I think that he always knew that he knew better than anyone else, so school could teach him nothing.
I wonder what he thinks of LyngSat, Free TV from Turkey? (http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/Turkey.html)
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Intikam, if you were clever enough, you could find someone in southern Africa and someone in southern South America, and then on a clear night in June or July, when it is night time in both places, they could point their webcams southwards and you will see the same stars from both continents at the same time. Try explaining this when South is in a different direction by over 90 degrees on the FE map! Too much for your mind to handle?
I expect the normal reply of 'you prove it' from you, but then when someone posts the pictures you will say 'obviously faked' or something similar. It is impossible to get through to someone like you.
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Before we or people go into a lot of researching, arguments and explanation, i think it's just proper for someone who wants to know the truth out there to verify first if the picture showing both the north and south celestial poles are authentic, unedited one. It should be the first thing for both camps to agree on before proceeding to debates which may likely end up endless if improperly done. I think this pic came from a photo techsie whose business is in virtual reality presentation equipped with photoshop expertise and capacities to make a picture or video appear to be enjoyably extra beautiful or wonderful. Would the FEs allow this? see http://www.vincentbrady.com/Planetary360
Anyway, are there any other updated FE explanations, assuming the pic is verified/authenticated and agreed upon by both camps? Are the vantage points of the one shooting the picture exactly the same as those of the observers in the diagram? Why not let the FEs explain their side? How about their argument on the "firmament" aspect wrt celestial pole matters? The last or final statement in this thread that the "earth isn't flat" I think is still inadequately supported, pre-mature and inconclusive. The way of proving matters about the celestial poles has to be made the scientific and objective way, not by convincing way with a biased mindset. Be a truth seeker... not a "convincer"... :)
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
The educational system depends on according to opinion of atheist / satanist /NASA. So it means nothing. The only reality is IQ's of 160. :)
Do not worry. After i prove gravitation's fake, all you will get like educated. ;)
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
The educational system depends on according to opinion of atheist / satanist /NASA. So it means nothing. The only reality is IQ's of 160. :)
Do not worry. After i prove gravitation's fake, all you will get like educated. ;)
What has that to do with "The South Celestial Pole"?
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
The educational system depends on according to opinion of atheist / satanist /NASA. So it means nothing. The only reality is IQ's of 160. :)
Do not worry. After i prove gravitation's fake, all you will get like educated. ;)
To quote Hawking: "People who boast about their IQ are losers"
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
The educational system depends on according to opinion of atheist / satanist /NASA. So it means nothing. The only reality is IQ's of 160. :)
Do not worry. After i prove gravitation's fake, all you will get like educated. ;)
To quote Hawking: "People who boast about their IQ are losers"
"People who boast about their IQ on the internet probably used a free IQ test from a click-bait website" -- Isaac Newton
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So do we have a better Flat Earth explanation for the "The South Celestial Pole" than
"SCP is a lie. There is noone on the South Pole. Because there is nowhere as SP. if it is really there, so why nobody can't show us the compass turning on the SP like NP. ? Because there isin't SP."
??? Really ???
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See the Bi-Polar model.
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See the Bi-Polar model.
See the very first post in this thread.
2. The South Celestial Pole is always exactly due South. It is always 180 degrees in the opposite direction of North. In the "Celestial Gears" model, moving east or west would cause the South Celestial Pole to no longer be due South. There would be a non 180 degree angle between the North Celestial Pole and South Celestial Pole.
(http://imgur.com/aPgncKh.png)
The Bipolar Model (http://wiki.tfes.org/File:Altmap.png) has the exact same problem.
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I don't see a problem with the bi-polar model. The South Celestial pole is always in one spot.
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I don't see a problem with the bi-polar model. The South Celestial pole is always in one spot.
*sigh*
In the bipolar model, depending on where you are, the north celestial pole is not directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
In reality, no matter where you are, the north celestial pole is directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
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I don't see a problem with the bi-polar model. The South Celestial pole is always in one spot.
*sigh*
In the bipolar model, depending on where you are, the north celestial pole is not directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
In reality, no matter where you are, the north celestial pole is directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
The magnetic field lines are curved in the Bi-Polar model, making the direction of North and South relative to the position of the field lines. If you follow the field lines North or South anywhere on the map you will eventually reach the North or South poles.
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I don't see a problem with the bi-polar model. The South Celestial pole is always in one spot.
*sigh*
In the bipolar model, depending on where you are, the north celestial pole is not directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
In reality, no matter where you are, the north celestial pole is directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
The magnetic field lines are curved in the Bi-Polar model, making the direction of North and South relative to the position of the field lines. If you follow the field lines North or South anywhere on the map you will eventually reach the North or South poles.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the magnetic north or south poles. I am referring to the celestial poles.
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I don't see a problem with the bi-polar model. The South Celestial pole is always in one spot.
*sigh*
In the bipolar model, depending on where you are, the north celestial pole is not directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
In reality, no matter where you are, the north celestial pole is directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
The magnetic field lines are curved in the Bi-Polar model, making the direction of North and South relative to the position of the field lines. If you follow the field lines North or South anywhere on the map you will eventually reach the North or South poles.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the magnetic north or south poles. I am referring to the celestial poles.
The celestial poles are located near the magnetic poles. We can't see the Southern celestial pole from the Northern Hemiplane. To get to it we follow our compass South, which will take us to the Southern Hemiplane from wherever we are in the North.
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I don't see a problem with the bi-polar model. The South Celestial pole is always in one spot.
*sigh*
In the bipolar model, depending on where you are, the north celestial pole is not directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
In reality, no matter where you are, the north celestial pole is directly 180 degrees away from the south celestial pole.
The magnetic field lines are curved in the Bi-Polar model, making the direction of North and South relative to the position of the field lines. If you follow the field lines North or South anywhere on the map you will eventually reach the North or South poles.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the magnetic north or south poles. I am referring to the celestial poles.
The celestial poles are located near the magnetic poles. To get to them we follow our compass. We can't see the Southern constellations from the Northern Hemiplane.
We don't need to "get to them". We can just measure where they are visually. And if we are at the equator, both of them are visible at the same time at the horizon. No matter where you are on the equator, they are in exact opposite directions from one another. Based on your bipolar model, we would not expect this to happen.
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And if we are at the equator, both of them are visible at the same time at the horizon. No matter where you are on the equator, they are in exact opposite directions from one another. Based on your bipolar model, we would not expect this to happen.
You don't have any evidence for that.
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And if we are at the equator, both of them are visible at the same time at the horizon. No matter where you are on the equator, they are in exact opposite directions from one another. Based on your bipolar model, we would not expect this to happen.
You don't have any evidence for that.
Well I'm not currently at the equator, so I am not going to go outside and take a picture for you. However, I have been to the equator and can affirm that it is 100% true. Millions of people around the world can verify this. You can verify this yourself by going to the equator. Anywhere on the equator that isn't surrounded by mountains will do.
In another thread you blamed me for lack of research... oh the irony.
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Well I'm not currently at the equator, so I am not going to go outside and take a picture for you. However, I have been to the equator and can affirm that it is 100% true. Millions of people around the world can verify this. You can verify this yourself by going to the equator. Anywhere on the equator that isn't surrounded by mountains will do.
In another thread you blamed me for lack of research... oh the irony.
Really, you thought to perform this experiment before the subject came up in this thread?
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Well I'm not currently at the equator, so I am not going to go outside and take a picture for you. However, I have been to the equator and can affirm that it is 100% true. Millions of people around the world can verify this. You can verify this yourself by going to the equator. Anywhere on the equator that isn't surrounded by mountains will do.
In another thread you blamed me for lack of research... oh the irony.
Really, you thought to perform this experiment before the subject came up in this thread?
Well I didn't break out a protractor. But stargazing has always been a hobby of mine. The south celestial pole is always in the opposite direction of the north celestial pole. Do you have any other argument besides personal incredulity?
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I think Tom is missing the main point for some reason.
If three people are standing looking south in South Africa, Argentina, and Australia at the same time they all are looking in the same direction to see the South Star.
If the Earth is flat regardless of model I can think of only the following to explain it:
Light is capable of having much greater alterations to it's path then we are aware of. In this case light is bending a tremendous amount in at least two directions.
There is some mirror effect happening. Maybe reflecting off a dome.
Current maps are far more off than the FE hypothesis suggest. All the continents are aligned differently than we are told.
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And if you dig deep enough eventually the earth will give way and you will fall into the abyss!
We will need actual evidence to demonstrate those suppositions, I am afraid.
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And if you dig deep enough eventually the earth will give way and you will fall into the abyss!
We will need actual evidence to demonstrate those suppositions, I am afraid.
Interesting. So, you would rather believe that the ~400 million people living near the equator are all too moronic to notice that the celestial poles don't line up like modern astronomy says they should? Even when you have absolutely no evidence to suggest that they don't line up, other than the fact that if they do line up, your theory doesn't work? I am starting to see a pattern. (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5346.msg104158#msg104158)
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Where is the evidence for this fact? Solely in your head?
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Where is the evidence for this fact? Solely in your head?
Which fact? The number of people near the equator or the fact that the celestial poles are in opposite directions from each other?
If the first, I just added up the populations of Indonesia, Kenya, DRC, and Ecuador, then rounded up because I didn't feel like trying to figure out the population of just the northern part of Brazil. It's just an estimate.
If the second... honestly I don't know what else to tell you. Believing that the celestial poles don't line up is almost as bad as other flat earthers claiming that Polaris can be seen from Australia, or that the South Celestial Pole doesn't exist, or some other head-stuck-in-sand nonsense.
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If the second... honestly I don't know what else to tell you. Believing that the celestial poles don't line up is almost as bad as other flat earthers claiming that Polaris can be seen from Australia, or that the South Celestial Pole doesn't exist, or some other head-stuck-in-sand nonsense.
Is there a universal law that all phenomena must be how you imagine it to be or something?
You have clearly been brainwashed with globularist dogma and media hype, to the extent that you create facts on demand, are disinterested in truth, and deny any necessity for evidence. Scary.
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If the second... honestly I don't know what else to tell you. Believing that the celestial poles don't line up is almost as bad as other flat earthers claiming that Polaris can be seen from Australia, or that the South Celestial Pole doesn't exist, or some other head-stuck-in-sand nonsense.
Is there a universal law that all phenomena must be how you imagine it to be or something?
You have clearly been brainwashed with globularist dogma and media hype, to the extent that you create facts on demand, are disinterested in truth, and deny any necessity for evidence. Scary.
Brainwashed by globularist dogma and media hype? Lol. I literally just told you several posts ago that I have been there myself. I have seen what the night sky looks like at the equator myself. If you think I and 400 million other people are lying, just go there to see for yourself.
Don't want to travel to the equator? Fine! You can test my claim right where you are! Assuming you are in the northern hemisphere, the location of the south celestial pole below the horizon can easily be estimated. Just take a timelapse of the night sky facing south. Look for the cardinal direction of the top of the arc made by the stars. The south celestial pole is in that cardinal direction. Now measure that against the cardinal direction of the north celestial pole. Easy peasy.
And yes, there is a universal law that all phenomena must be how I imagine it. Why would you think otherwise? Fun fact: the earth used to be flat, but then I imagined it to be a globe, so now it is. You are just slow on the uptake!
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If the second... honestly I don't know what else to tell you. Believing that the celestial poles don't line up is almost as bad as other flat earthers claiming that Polaris can be seen from Australia, or that the South Celestial Pole doesn't exist, or some other head-stuck-in-sand nonsense.
Is there a universal law that all phenomena must be how you imagine it to be or something?
You have clearly been brainwashed with globularist dogma and media hype, to the extent that you create facts on demand, are disinterested in truth, and deny any necessity for evidence. Scary.
You have no idea how amazing it feels to follow this thread and just witness you digging. It took 3 or 4 replies, and you brought out Tom the juvenile.
Please get whatever personal stuff gone bad in your life tied to your beliefs sorted, so you can start the process of accepting reality.
Nobody's going to come back just because you're stubborn about your flawed beliefs.
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I think between Tom and Intikam we have a genius! (IQ 80 plus 80)! They both ignore all evidence as false unless it suits them, or they say I haven't seen it so it cannot be true! Just search for star trails Southern Hemisphere in Google and you will find thousands of images. If you compare them to the northern hemisphere star trails you will notice they are different, and don't say all are just CGI images. And they can be taken from Australia and Africa, or Africa and South America at exactly the same time pointing almost due south at the South celestial star to give virtually identical images. However, neither will ever believe in anything concerning the Southern Hemisphere, so it is like flogging a dead horse! Open your eyes to reality guys.
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Tom Bishop "supports" the "Bipolar Flat Earth" - and really is in need of a LOT of support!
It looks like (http://wiki.tfes.org/images/c/c2/Altmap.png)
Another alternative model descripting Antarctica as a distinct continent.
There is still an "ice wall" in this model, but it not Antarctica.
Beyond the rays of the sun the waters will naturally freeze.
But see in Re: Merely mistaken « Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 10:46:59 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5366.msg104267#msg104267) and some following posts for a bit more detail.
In Merely mistaken « Reply #20 on: September 25, 2016, 04:58:52 PM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5366.msg104280#msg104280) Tom says a little more including a reference to
The Sea-Earth Globe and and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions, (Zetetes, 1918) [PDF]. (http://library.tfes.org/library/Sea-Earth%20Globe.pdf)
You should read it. But in his comments about it Tom claims that [quote author-Tom Bishop]The South Pole was not yet discovered when Rowbotham wrote Earth Not a Globe. It is understandable why he might depict the earth without it.
The Bi-Polar model is first advocated in the book The Sea-Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions, (Zetetes, 1918). However, the layout of the continents is left ambiguous due to lack of data. The layout and dimensions of the continents in our picture may be different as well. Someone apparently just found a map projection of a globe that looked similar for illustrative purposes.[/quote]
His claiming "However, the layout of the continents is left ambiguous due to lack of data." is simply bunkum, thr "layout of the continents" was as well known in 1918 as it is now, though not in as fine detail.
;) ::) Have a great read! ::) ;)
E&OE (Errors & Omissions Expected)
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
The educational system depends on according to opinion of atheist / satanist /NASA. So it means nothing. The only reality is IQ's of 160. :)
Do not worry. After i prove gravitation's fake, all you will get like educated. ;)
What has that to do with "The South Celestial Pole"?
Who cares! I want to see his proofs of this gravity hoax people are talking about!
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Totes, gotta hand it to you, you're right hitting all my favorite topics here. Also, I couldn't resist (https://youtu.be/UclCCFNG9q4?t=1m9s), since nobody has done it yet.
(http://imgur.com/aPgncKh.png)
Eh, I'm not crazy for the gears myself, but I understand [the need for something like] it. There is a youtuber called p-brane who recently did a video about this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t30-YbayyXE), but I don't think he satisfactorily summed it up. He tries to demonstrate the 'diamond' shaped red lines depicted in the above image, as the 'lense' perspective we are familiar with from the ground; IE, in particular, crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays convergence point during sunset; which looks like 2 suns; the real one and it's opposite on the 180 degree opposite horizon (forming giant 'diamonds' in the sky). Of course, sundogs also exist which can be a useful tool in understanding 'flat earth celestial functions', but I'm still at a loss to bring it all together. I mention it simply because it is one avenue that isn't mentioned often.
Of course if you google 'sundogs' you are gonna get a load of "Nibiru" conspiracies. So do that at your own discretion. It is also interesting, that you cannot see a rainbow indoors, without the use of a mirror. It has been postulated that something in the atmosphere (ie flat earth dome) is acting like a mirror, enabling 'free rainbows' which shouldn't exist without a giant mirror somewhere overhead.
But like I said... I'm not tying all that together. The FE model isn't complete so far as I'm aware on this one topic you have presented here, that is obvious to anyone who spends a few days researching it. The devil, as they say, is in the details. And this one is still eluding me. Sorry for rambling but that's my $.02. Hopefully this is a little bit better post quality than what I started here with; I like to think I understand these topics a bit better now, thanks in no small part to correspondence here.
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Totes, gotta hand it to you, you're right hitting all my favorite topics here. Also, I couldn't resist (https://youtu.be/UclCCFNG9q4?t=1m9s), since nobody has done it yet.
I got SUNSHINE... in a bag... I'm useless... dang, haven't heard that song in awhile.
Eh, I'm not crazy for the gears myself, but I understand [the need for something like] it. There is a youtuber called p-brane who recently did a video about this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t30-YbayyXE), but I don't think he satisfactorily summed it up. He tries to demonstrate the 'diamond' shaped red lines depicted in the above image, as the 'lense' perspective we are familiar with from the ground; IE, in particular, crepuscular and anti-crepuscular rays convergence point during sunset;
I'm not going to look at this tonight, since my other reply was rather long. However, I am already cringing at the thought of him trying to connect the direction of the south celestial pole, anticrepescular rays, and whatever the heck "lense perspective" is. Ugh, this is going to be some twisted, convoluted logic...
However, I will respond to one statement:
It is also interesting, that you cannot see a rainbow indoors, without the use of a mirror.
Counterpoint: prisms
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I want to compliment the OP because he or she spotted FET's worst nightmare. The rotation of the sky around both north and south celestial poles is the ultimate nail on FET's coffin. Our feers friends can do triple somersaults but can do nothing to fix this. No way, no antimoon, moon luminescence, or other hand waving can explain how on a flat earth observing toward south from Australia, South America or South Africa skies rotate around a point and observing toward north from the Northern Hemisphere we see skies rotate around another point.
** This is possible ONLY if we are on a sphere **
Of course the 'Bipolar Map' cited by Tom Bishop is a joke. Observe it:
http://wiki.tfes.org/File:Altmap.png (http://wiki.tfes.org/File:Altmap.png)
but don't laugh too loud. Imagine a ship that travels along the equator line from ,say, south america toward west. When it is near the rim... OMG... what happens?. Or a ship that travels along the equator toward east from Malaysia, when it reaches the border... DOUBLE OMG... what happens? And many many other problems with this map. Besides, it's a particular projection of the ROUND earth.
And note please that this observation (i mean the rotation of the sky) doesn't need anything special, no physics laws, no mathematics, no indoctrination from NASA, but only seeing the sky by anyone with his own eyes. Pure zeteticism at his best! Even only an eye is sufficient! Even more zeteticist!
Is there any Feer that can explain clearly and convincingly how things go on a flat Earth to explain this fact?
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I want to compliment the OP because he or she spotted FET's worst nightmare. The rotation of the sky around both north and south celestial poles is the ultimate nail on FET's coffin. Our feers friends can do triple somersaults but can do nothing to fix this. No way, no antimoon, moon luminescence, or other hand waving can explain how on a flat earth observing toward south from Australia, South America or South Africa skies rotate around a point and observing toward north from the Northern Hemisphere we see skies rotate around another point.
** This is possible ONLY if we are on a sphere **
Of course the 'Bipolar Map' cited by Tom Bishop is a joke. Observe it:
http://wiki.tfes.org/File:Altmap.png (http://wiki.tfes.org/File:Altmap.png)
but don't laugh too loud. Imagine a ship that travels along the equator line from ,say, south america toward west. When it is near the rim... OMG... what happens?. Or a ship that travels along the equator toward east from Malaysia, when it reaches the border... DOUBLE OMG... what happens? And many many other problems with this map. Besides, it's a particular projection of the ROUND earth.
And note please that this observation (i mean the rotation of the sky) doesn't need anything special, no physics laws, no mathematics, no indoctrination from NASA, but only seeing the sky by anyone with his own eyes. Pure zeteticism at his best! Even only an eye is sufficient! Even more zeteticist!
Is there any Feer that can explain clearly and convincingly how things go on a flat Earth to explain this fact?
Has anyone ever considered that this website and the whole flat earth idea that the statement that it is ".....Either one big hoax or one big joke.... " might not be pretty close to the truth ? Especially if you have followed the posts from "Tom Bishop" and "intikam" for any length of time on these forums ?
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If the second... honestly I don't know what else to tell you. Believing that the celestial poles don't line up is almost as bad as other flat earthers claiming that Polaris can be seen from Australia, or that the South Celestial Pole doesn't exist, or some other head-stuck-in-sand nonsense.
Is there a universal law that all phenomena must be how you imagine it to be or something?
You have clearly been brainwashed with globularist dogma and media hype, to the extent that you create facts on demand, are disinterested in truth, and deny any necessity for evidence. Scary.
I wonder if Tom Bishop would say I had just imagined or that I had been "brainwashed with globularist dogma and media hype" if I told him I had been to sea and had seen these things.:
(1) I had seen a horizon where sea and sky meet in a distinct line (on a clear day) instead of a blur which fades away in the distance.
(2) I had watched a ship disappear beyond that horizon and I could not "restore it to view with a telescope."
(3) The Captain on those ships did not use one on those AEP's but flat charts made from projections of the globe. Was he a satanist like all those evil people at NASA ?
We somehow seemed to always go from San Diego to Yokosuka and back every time using those charts.
If flat earth has any nightmares, they must have several every night. LOL.
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Tom Bishop "supports" the "Bipolar Flat Earth" - and really is in need of a LOT of support!
It looks like (http://wiki.tfes.org/images/c/c2/Altmap.png)
Another alternative model descripting Antarctica as a distinct continent.
There is still an "ice wall" in this model, but it not Antarctica.
Beyond the rays of the sun the waters will naturally freeze.
But see in Re: Merely mistaken « Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 10:46:59 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5366.msg104267#msg104267) and some following posts for a bit more detail.
In Merely mistaken « Reply #20 on: September 25, 2016, 04:58:52 PM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5366.msg104280#msg104280) Tom says a little more including a reference to
The Sea-Earth Globe and and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions, (Zetetes, 1918) [PDF]. (http://library.tfes.org/library/Sea-Earth%20Globe.pdf)
You should read it. But in his comments about it Tom claims that [quote author-Tom Bishop]The South Pole was not yet discovered when Rowbotham wrote Earth Not a Globe. It is understandable why he might depict the earth without it.
The Bi-Polar model is first advocated in the book The Sea-Earth Globe and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions, (Zetetes, 1918). However, the layout of the continents is left ambiguous due to lack of data. The layout and dimensions of the continents in our picture may be different as well. Someone apparently just found a map projection of a globe that looked similar for illustrative purposes.
His claiming "However, the layout of the continents is left ambiguous due to lack of data." is simply bunkum, thr "layout of the continents" was as well known in 1918 as it is now, though not in as fine detail.
;) ::) Have a great read! ::) ;)
E&OE (Errors & Omissions Expected)
[/quote]
In reference to the " Bipolar Map ,Which Tom Bishop supports." :
During my four years in the Navy, I made three cruises, one from San Francisco and two from San Diego, California , USA to Yokosuka, Japan.
I suppose Mr. Bishop would say that I was just "globular brainwashed and dogma indoctirinated" into just imagining we we we were traveling in more or less tropical waters by way of Hawaii and Guam instead of the obvious route via Alaska, Greenland and Russia via the Arctic Ocean as per the " Bipolar Map , Which Tom Bishop supports." I guess I just imagined I never saw any icebergs in the Arctic Ocean along the way. I took a lot of Kodachromes, but I have looked back at my collection and I don't have any of icebergs.
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The educational system in turkey leaves much to desire, it seems.
The educational system depends on according to opinion of atheist / satanist /NASA. So it means nothing. The only reality is IQ's of 160. :)
Do not worry. After i prove gravitation's fake, all you will get like educated. ;)
What has that to do with "The South Celestial Pole"?
Who cares! I want to see his proofs of this gravity hoax people are talking about!
I totally agree. The South Celestial Pole is a fascinating topic but I will definitely be distracted if İntikam starts proving that gravitation is fake.