[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Incidentally, if you doubt the statistic re: young black men, then you prove me wrong. The truth is the truth. Any good sociology text will corroborate my statement.

[beardo]

Meltdown yes. Racist, no. Its not racist when its true. Re: the atheist dig, you can bet that his primitive ancestors did believe in gods. Atheism is a new concept, & hasn't taken the Earth by storm. As to the intelligence of atheism, the only response is that someone who believes that the universe just came about by accident is not the sharpest knife in the rack.

And why couldn't it have? And even if there is a creative force who created the universe, how can you be so sure it's Yahweh?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Why couldn't what have done what?

[beardo]

Why couldn't the universe just have come about by accident?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I'm not trying to prove Judaism. I'm only arguing that proposing the universe just got here is like saying the watch you found had no maker. Lets not get into which religion has it right. Frankly, I know what God has revealed to the Jews. What he did or didn't reveal to Gentiles is above my pay grade.

[beardo]

The universe doesn't necessarily need to have a maker. It might just as well have come about by some unknown natural process.

[Rama Set]

If the universe was created according to some fundamental laws then it would not need to be random.

[Snupes]

I'm only arguing that proposing the universe just got here is like saying the watch you found had no maker.

That's a horrible argument, though, no matter what way you try to present it. There is no reason to believe things couldn't have come about naturally; just because there's an analogy for something doesn't make it true.

[Rama Set]

I'm not trying to prove Judaism. I'm only arguing that proposing the universe just got here is like saying the watch you found had no maker. Lets not get into which religion has it right. Frankly, I know what God has revealed to the Jews. What he did or didn't reveal to Gentiles is above my pay grade.

You claim to know what god revealed to the Jews, but since the sources are extremely prone to bias and exaggeration, to say you "know" would be a massive overstatement.

RE: You being racist-You derogatory and inflammatory towards Arabs show you clearly are racist.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Theoretically possible. Statistically highly unlikely. For every single atom to be just right even on Earth to allow for intelligent life is a 1 in several million chance. That it happened elsewhere also? Much harder to conceive. But, I weary of the battle since neither of us is likely to win the other over to our point of view. What say we change the topic?

[Rama Set]

Theoretically possible. Statistically highly unlikely. For every single atom to be just right even on Earth to allow for intelligent life is a 1 in several million chance. That it happened elsewhere also? Much harder to conceive. But, I weary of the battle since neither of us is likely to win the other over to our point of view. What say we change the topic?

You are making up statistics now. You must be truly desperate.

[Rushy]

Theoretically possible. Statistically highly unlikely. For every single atom to be just right even on Earth to allow for intelligent life is a 1 in several million chance.

What data did you use to make this claim? I want to view it.

[beardo]

Science may not have an answer for the origin of the universe, but saying "God did it" is not only the easiest way to explain it, but I think it's also a very cheap and lazy way, and it doesn't make it true.

[DDDDAts all folks]

If the universe was created according to some fundamental laws then it would not need to be random.

The universe is random within a set of laws.

[spank86]

I'm not trying to prove Judaism. I'm only arguing that proposing the universe just got here is like saying the watch you found had no maker.

we know the watch had a maker because we've seen watches before and know them to be man made.

It wouldn't surprise me if the first sundial however was natural.

[Rama Set]

If the universe was created according to some fundamental laws then it would not need to be random.

The universe is random within a set of laws.

Sure, and that is different than an accident.

[DDDDAts all folks]

If the universe was created according to some fundamental laws then it would not need to be random.

The universe is random within a set of laws.

Sure, and that is different than an accident.

Why?

[Rama Set]

Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

[Roundy]

Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

So who anticipated it?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

The vast majority of people have always believed in a deity or deities. I don't need sources to continue to do what humans have always done. It is the atheist who is proposing that I reject belief in the guiding philosophy of my people for the last 5,000+ yrs. I suggest that the onus of proof is on the atheist. As far as making up statistics, I don't think I'm stretching or being desperate when I say that all the universe happening by accident is unlikely. Ever play 52 Pickup?