81

Flat Earth Community / Re: Round Earth Conspiracy

« on: October 03, 2017, 07:41:59 PM »

What about every other space agency on Earth?
What about sat TV?
GPS?
The fake sat light?
The ISS that can be seen by anyone?
Every single one of them must be a lie to some extent. Why do the sat TV companies put up with it? What about the GPS manufacturers and programmers? How do we fake the ISS and other sats?

GPS alone is enough to convince me that the Earth is a globe.  But so is a simple sunset.
Berts1404 asked a simple question.  What is the purpose for the conspiracy?  I was answering what the motivation could be.
Billions of dollars would be a great motivation, both for NASA and for other space agencies.

82

Flat Earth Community / Re: Round Earth Conspiracy

« on: October 03, 2017, 03:48:02 PM »

Step 1: Receive 19 billion dollars to run the space program
Step 2: Spend less than 19 billion dollars producing movies and images instead of spaceships and rockets
Step 3: Pocket the balance
Step 4: Repeat next year

The big problem with this is that they actually have to spend vast amounts of that money. I've had the fortune of touring a NASA facility. Quite large, quite expensive. It also requires that every other space-faring nation goes along with it. Also, NASA does far more than just space exploration. Your hypothesis doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

I haven't put together a serious analysis so I can only make general suppositions.
Let suppose that vast amounts of money is millions of dollars.  How about hundreds of millions?  Let's count that as 'vast'.
If NASA received billions and spent millions, they would still be rerouting billions.

83

Flat Earth Community / Re: Round Earth Conspiracy

« on: October 03, 2017, 03:26:58 PM »

What makes you think someone couldn't make money fooling someone about a space program that "orbits" a Flat Earth? Or flies across one end of the thick disk to the next? Why not? What's on the other side of this disk? MAGIC?

So you're saying that the effort to fool people into round Earth belief started with the creation of NASA in 1958 and that profit was the motive.

Here are a couple of quotes from the wiki on these topics...
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

There is no Flat Earth Conspiracy. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone. The purpose of NASA is not to 'hide the shape of the earth' or 'trick people into thinking it's round' or anything of the sort.

There is a Space Travel Conspiracy. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They are not running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes. At the time of NASA's creation the general population already believed that the earth was round, based on the handed down teachings of the Ancient Greeks, which is why it was depicted in that manner. As with everyone else in the country, the people at NASA were taught the fiction of a globe earth from the cradle, so there was no doubt in their mind as how to display it.

84

Flat Earth Community / Re: Round Earth Conspiracy

« on: October 03, 2017, 03:59:29 AM »

What is the purpose of the Round Earth Conspiracy?

$$$$$$$$$$

So how does one make dollars from fooling people about the shape of the Earth?

Step 1: Receive 19 billion dollars to run the space program
Step 2: Spend less than 19 billion dollars producing movies and images instead of spaceships and rockets
Step 3: Pocket the balance
Step 4: Repeat next year

85

Flat Earth Community / Re: Round Earth Conspiracy

« on: October 03, 2017, 03:37:59 AM »

What is the purpose of the Round Earth Conspiracy?

$$$$$$$$$$

86

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Star tracks in the southern hemisphere

« on: October 03, 2017, 03:26:22 AM »

I thought the FE models with the dome showed why they look the way they do with perspective. Did we all miss that video with the diagram, plates and lights flashing? Shall I pull it up for you?

Yes, I have missed the answer about the dome with the video and diagram.
Part of the reason I come to this site is because flat earth theory and explanations interest me.
As my friendly flat-earth-guide I would greatly appreciate it if you pulled it up for me.  Thanks J-Man.
(btw I made that star trail picture from an image of the millennium falcon jumping to hyperspace.  It is pretty cool )

87

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Star tracks in the southern hemisphere

« on: October 02, 2017, 11:22:20 PM »

And in the flat-earth model, star trails would look like this.  (but they don't)

88

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: October 02, 2017, 03:35:07 PM »

Here's a list of the aircrafts with the longest range, it took me 2 minutes with Google, I have no time for a more in-depth search.
http://www.aerospace-technology.com/features/feature-the-longest-range-airliners-in-the-world/
Look at the cruise speeds: they are within a 5% range.

Tom,
I'd like to acknowledge your concern that all passenger jet-liners don't fly at the same speed.  This is certainly true.
What are your thoughts on my claim that the differences won't be significant enough to turn a flat earth round or a round earth flat.

Flight speeds differences may make my map a bit distorted, but it would not change the location of entire continents.
If you will acknowledge this claim, I'll feel good about proceeding.

With the link that Ga_x2 provided, we can see that cruising speeds are very similar for all the vehicles I have been using in my data collection.  This gives me more confidence in the process. 

I have asked Tom several times to acknowledge that the flight time data will not be perfect, but will be good enough to reveal the position of continents and be an acceptable representation of their layout on the Earth.  Also, I have asked him to acknowledge that the imprecise measurements will not introduce enough error to change a flat earth into a round ball.  I do not require Tom's approval to continue the project, but it is disappointing that he initially engaged me in analyzing this map making effort and is now ignoring my requests.

At this point in the discussion, I am more convinced than ever that the flight time data I am collecting will give a good representation of the shape of continents and their relationship to each other.  I will create my map project topic and track progress there.  Thanks everybody for all your input.

89

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: October 01, 2017, 10:57:55 PM »

If you want to figure the distance from New York to Paris, can you use time and the motion of the sun or stars to figure it? That is, if you can measure distances in North America (e.g. by driving), and you can measure distances in Europe (again, by driving), and you can observe that the sun moves a certain number of degrees across the sky in a certain amount of time (15 degrees), then can you use a clock and just observe the angle of the sun to get a value for east/west distance across oceans?

Thanks douglips.  That is an interesting idea for measuring distance along any specific latitude line.  I'll use that to check my numbers.

90

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: September 30, 2017, 10:46:36 PM »

All planes are not the same, and planes do not travel at a set speed through the duration of their flight.

Irrelevant when taking an average, and incorrect when speaking about the vast majority of an intercontinental flight.

Tom,  can we come to agreement that you are correct that all planes, do not travel at the same speed, but that this fact will be irrelevant to my project of making a rough map of the world?  Do you agree that we can expect distortions because of the non-uniform air speeds, but that the distortions will not be enough to move entire continents?

91

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why doesn't the sun get smaller with perspective?

« on: September 30, 2017, 10:36:36 PM »

I was looking at the star trail pictures Tom posted up above and I wondered where the perspective convergence is.
If the stars are all moving away from us off into the distance until the horizon and stars meet at the vanishing point. Should they not also converge horizontally and not just vertically?  Shouldn't start trails look like this...


instead of this...

92

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: September 30, 2017, 02:25:16 PM »

Tom,
I'd like to acknowledge your concern that all passenger jet-liners don't fly at the same speed.  This is certainly true.
What are your thoughts on my claim that the differences won't be significant enough to turn a flat earth round or a round earth flat.

Flight speeds differences may make my map a bit distorted, but it would not change the location of entire continents.
If you will acknowledge this claim, I'll feel good about proceeding.

93

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How does FE think that GPS works?

« on: September 30, 2017, 06:48:12 AM »

They can be right about this Ohitstarik.  The speed of light is only relevant when you are observing something else moving relative you yourself.  If it's you that's moving, the speed of light is equivalent to infinity and you will never get there.

Another way of putting it:
An object with mass can never reach the speed of light.  Fact.
Therefore an object with mass can constantly accelerate and never reach the speed of light.  Because it is a known fact that it can't.

94

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is the Earth accelerating at9.8 metres per second?

« on: September 29, 2017, 08:27:44 PM »

Not quite. UA FE doesn't have a infinite plane (from my understanding) infinite plane FE uses normal gravity. UA only applies to FE's with finite dimension, though what those are are of course unknown.

I once read somewhere on here that if you got to the edge of the flat Earth and jumped off you might step outside Earth's shielding from UE.  That would mean that UE would start acting on you and you'd accelerate at 9.8 m/s along with the edge of the flat Earth right next to you.  That is an experiment someone should try.

95

Flat Earth Community / Re: SpaceX BFR

« on: September 29, 2017, 06:18:24 PM »

I apologize for not posting a good question with this post.  Let me try again.
How many of you will be willing to ride on this rocket to take a look out the window at the earth if it really is going to cost ~$1000?

I definitely will go and report back to you.

96

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: September 29, 2017, 05:14:23 PM »

3DGeek,  I suspect that I will get different results (different continent shapes) depending on what I make the center of my map.
If I start at LA - New York, the map will get more accurate in North America and more distorted the further away I get in all directions.
If I start in Europe, the same thing will occur with Europe being shaped correctly, but other contents distorted.

If this happens as you and I feel certain it will, I will have shown that the flat Earth is having problems mapping to a flat surface.  According to my original premise in this topic that should not happen if they are both flat.  if I get a wavy looking map.  That is just my 7% error.  Ok so it should be flat, but I messed up here and there and got it wavy.  No big deal.  If it impossible, well... that's another story.  My uniformly spread 7% error shouldn't make it impossible.

97

Flat Earth Community / SpaceX BFR & Falcon Heavy

« on: September 29, 2017, 05:01:12 PM »

Have you seen this video yet?


Soon we will all be able to look out the window and see for ourselves.

98

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: September 29, 2017, 04:33:08 PM »

I'd like to ask how the error bars are coming along (I'm using a mobile and can't open the spreadsheet).
Also, i'm curious to know how you're going to physically produce the actual map without going crazy threads of different length?

Between New York and Paris all the west-bound flights took about an hour longer than the east-bound flights.
The fastest flight was 6:30 on a boeing 777 and the longest was 8:37 on a boeing 767.  The average was 7:34. That gives an error of 14% and 12% for the extremes. That is higher than I'd like, but if I take the two mode flight times of 7:03 and 8:07 it is a 7% error up and down from the average.

Even with the large variances in the flight times, I still think this will work out by using the same averaging method between each of the cities I measure.  I believe, and I want the community to agree, that averaging flights going both ways will remove jetstream issues.

As for producing the map without going crazy.  I originally suggested using wires between rigid content to make the map.  Instead I am going to just draw the lines on a flat piece of paper.  When I need to move the edge of a continental shoreline, I will move it.  (like I did with Florida in the posted example)

99

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: September 29, 2017, 03:54:25 PM »

I predict that when you add a fourth city ...
...Basically - you're screwed.

Yes, yes.  I've checked your math and you are correct.
I am going to try this anyway.

100

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat Earth Map Should Be Easy

« on: September 29, 2017, 03:42:34 PM »

Please tell us the distance between New York and Paris without using a method that assumes the earth is round.

It takes a while to get the data but I have added New York to Paris to my spreadsheet.  You can find it in rows 37 - 43.
The distance between New York and Paris (for my map) is 7 hours and 34 minutes.

Here is another link to the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h0CpaBnQR-WEk6qJ8J2AgwVY4o5we0IzmSDtPPGvDpc/edit?usp=sharing