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Offline ElTrancy

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When did you start?
« on: April 09, 2018, 02:10:25 PM »
I'm done arguing my point, so I'm just asking -politely- when did you start believing the Earth was Flat, who/what gave you the evidence?  I mean, I learned the Earth was round, before I really paid attention to it in school. As a child, my parents took me to the beach a lot, and there, I could see big boats have their mast appear first. Since I've always liked to learn how things worked, I asked them, and they told me that because of the curvature, the mast appeared first. I would love to hear your stories.
Please fucking launch a mininuke at me, I've become hopelessly lost.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 12:58:18 PM »
As a child, my parents took me to the beach a lot, and there, I could see big boats have their mast appear first.
As always, I feel obliged to remind that the Sinking Ship Effect is one of the most elegant proofs of the Flat Earth. It just happens to be misconstrued by RE believers.

when did you start believing the Earth was Flat, who/what gave you the evidence?  [...] I would love to hear your stories.
It was the Flat Earth Society that did it for me, personally. I first stopped by sometime around 2010 or 2011, and approached the subject with my tongue firmly in cheek. My story is not too different from that of many other Flat Earthers - I came here to defend Round Earth, but over time the inconsistencies just kept piling on. Mind you, this was long before the RE troll brigade was quite so numerous or well-resourced as it is now, so it was much easier to have an honest discussion on the matter.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline AATW

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 01:15:48 PM »
As a child, my parents took me to the beach a lot, and there, I could see big boats have their mast appear first.
As always, I feel obliged to remind that the Sinking Ship Effect is one of the most elegant proofs of the Flat Earth. It just happens to be misconstrued by RE believers.

Interesting. Can you elaborate? I hope you don't mean the assertion that magnification can "restore" a ship, because you can find plenty of videos on YouTube (not my favourite source, admittedly) which shows that to be nonsense. No you can't.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 05:06:06 PM »
I hope you don't mean the assertion that magnification can "restore" a ship, because you can find plenty of videos on YouTube (not my favourite source, admittedly) which shows that to be nonsense. No you can't.
It's definitely part of it, and I'll take my own experimentation and empiricism above your empty assertion and YouTube reference. Sorry.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline AATW

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 05:16:48 PM »
I hope you don't mean the assertion that magnification can "restore" a ship, because you can find plenty of videos on YouTube (not my favourite source, admittedly) which shows that to be nonsense. No you can't.
It's definitely part of it, and I'll take my own experimentation and empiricism above your empty assertion and YouTube reference. Sorry.
You've done your own experiments on this? Can you show your results?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 05:21:28 PM »
You've done your own experiments on this? Can you show your results?
I have, some years ago. You can try to dig it out if you really want. Personally, I see no reason why you'd trust me more than you'd trust YouTube, and would recommend that you give it a go yourself instead.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline AATW

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2018, 05:29:25 PM »
You've done your own experiments on this? Can you show your results?
I have, some years ago. You can try to dig it out if you really want. Personally, I see no reason why you'd trust me more than you'd trust YouTube, and would recommend that you give it a go yourself instead.
Well, I don't live anywhere near the sea and I don't think I have the equipment to do so. You'd need something with a pretty good zoom.
I wouldn't know where to start in terms of finding your results, are you able to point me in the right direction at least? Is there something I could search for and would that be on here or the other place?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 06:39:06 PM »
It would almost certainly be the other place, but I can't remember for sure. As for equipment, you really don't need much. Even a decent pair of binoculars will make the restoration effect somewhat apparent, and potentially satisfactory for your own benefit. Obviously, if you were going for something of a more publishable standard, you'd need a decent camera with a telephoto lens
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline AATW

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 06:48:11 PM »
Honestly, and without seeing your results, I suspect with binoculars all you'd be able to see is a ship which is just a speck become clear.
So yes, that would be "restored" in the sense of made clearer by optical zoom. But it wouldn't be below the horizon in the first place.
A ship which is truly below the horizon because of the curve of the earth cannot be restored, any more than someone going over a hill till you can only see their head can be restored with optical zoom, no amount of zoom will let you see their legs.

There are some examples here:

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-believe-ships-go-over-the-horizon-when-they-are-simply-moving-out-of-sight-They-can-look-through-a-telescope-and-bring-the-craft-back-into-view-Objects-get-smaller-as-they-get-farther-away

And yes, they're not *my* empirical observations but I don't think the fact that someone else made the observations makes those observations less valid.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 07:10:17 PM »
And yes, they're not *my* empirical observations but I don't think the fact that someone else made the observations makes those observations less valid.
Not strictly, no, but in the absence of other determining factors I'll take what I personally experienced over what someone is telling me they have experienced. That's my personal choice, not any kind of universal rule. I prefer to check things out for myself.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Offline AATW

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 07:42:41 PM »
And yes, they're not *my* empirical observations but I don't think the fact that someone else made the observations makes those observations less valid.
Not strictly, no, but in the absence of other determining factors I'll take what I personally experienced over what someone is telling me they have experienced. That's my personal choice, not any kind of universal rule. I prefer to check things out for myself.

A fairly healthy attitude, I'd say.
I guess the difference is I don't see the shape of the earth as something worthy of testing.
It's so well established, there is so much proof - both theoretical and empirical. And I really don't see why "they" would be hiding "the truth" from us.
Will see if I can find your experiments on the other place.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Dither

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 09:57:57 PM »
Mind you, this was long before the RE troll brigade was quite so numerous or well-resourced as it is now, so it was much easier to have an honest discussion on the matter.

I would have liked to have been around then, before FE became a universal punching bag.

As a child I was told that stars were suns in distant galaxies, I knew instinctively that was garbage.
I was also told we evolved from apes and I thought to myself "no we didn't"
I eventually succumbed to the relentless round earth programing but rejected the ape stuff.
Becoming a FEer was like coming back full circle, it was easy for me and the localised sun was the clincher.
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

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Offline ElTrancy

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2018, 04:08:30 AM »

As a child I was told that stars were suns in distant galaxies, I knew instinctively that was garbage.
I was also told we evolved from apes and I thought to myself "no we didn't"
I eventually succumbed to the relentless round earth programing but rejected the ape stuff.
Becoming a FEer was like coming back full circle, it was easy for me and the localised sun was the clincher.

I have a few questions. First, are you saying you're a creationist, second why did you think it was garbage? We've had these theories and experiments to prove them for hundreds of years. You yourself can do some of them.
Please fucking launch a mininuke at me, I've become hopelessly lost.

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Offline ElTrancy

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2018, 04:16:52 AM »
As a child, my parents took me to the beach a lot, and there, I could see big boats have their mast appear first.
As always, I feel obliged to remind that the Sinking Ship Effect is one of the most elegant proofs of the Flat Earth. It just happens to be misconstrued by RE believers.

when did you start believing the Earth was Flat, who/what gave you the evidence?  [...] I would love to hear your stories.
It was the Flat Earth Society that did it for me, personally. I first stopped by sometime around 2010 or 2011, and approached the subject with my tongue firmly in cheek. My story is not too different from that of many other Flat Earthers - I came here to defend Round Earth, but over time the inconsistencies just kept piling on. Mind you, this was long before the RE troll brigade was quite so numerous or well-resourced as it is now, so it was much easier to have an honest discussion on the matter.

Ahhh, it must have been. Truthfully, people are people. I've just decided to let those who want to believe what they want believe that. It's like when I became an Atheist, and my parents got angry because they are religious freaks. Just because someone thinks differently than what you call the norm, doesn't mean they are wrong. ^-^
Please fucking launch a mininuke at me, I've become hopelessly lost.

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Offline AATW

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 08:23:36 AM »
Mind you, this was long before the RE troll brigade was quite so numerous or well-resourced as it is now, so it was much easier to have an honest discussion on the matter.

I would have liked to have been around then, before FE became a universal punching bag.
To be fair it was you guys who collectively sought publicity for this and brought it into the public domain.
Flat Earth is not widely accepted so obviously most people who become aware of this site will believe in a round earth.
Ergo, many people who sign up here will do so with that viewpoint, seeking to understand why anyone these days would believe in a Flat Earth.

And to respond to Pete's point, I did come here to have honest discussions and have found that quite difficult.
Any evidence presented which contradicts a Flat Earth is just declared fake, there's not much honest discussion going on.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 12:29:06 PM »
As a child I was told that stars were suns in distant galaxies, I knew instinctively that was garbage.
I was also told we evolved from apes and I thought to myself "no we didn't"
I eventually succumbed to the relentless round earth programing but rejected the ape stuff.
Becoming a FEer was like coming back full circle, it was easy for me and the localised sun was the clincher.

Well, you did get one thing correct - the stars you see are not in distant galaxies. All the stars you see are in the Milky Way. Distant galaxies are much too far away to see individual stars. You can barely see the faint white smudge of the Andromeda galaxy with the naked eye, but it really is just a smudge. This does, however, point to something important. You didn't have the required information to make an accurate judgement. You based your opinion off of inaccurate facts. It's similar to creationists saying we didn't evolve from apes and then pointing to the fact that no apes are evolving into humans today. (we share a common ancestor)
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2018, 02:56:14 AM »
the inconsistencies just kept piling on.

Care to tell us more about these inconsistencies? What were the most convincing ones for you?

Re: When did you start?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2018, 07:17:13 PM »
the one fact that made me start paying attention to flat earth was, why is gravity strong enough to stop the ocean from falling yet not strong enough to push a boat or ship to the ocean floor. not sure if im stating it correct.

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Offline Stagiri

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Re: When did you start?
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2018, 07:37:48 PM »
the one fact that made me start paying attention to flat earth was, why is gravity strong enough to stop the ocean from falling yet not strong enough to push a boat or ship to the ocean floor. not sure if im stating it correct.

That's because of buoyancy. Basically, the hydrostatic pressure (created by gravity) of the water under the boat/ship is strong enough to keep it floating.
Dr Rowbotham was accurate in his experiments.
How do you know without repeating them?
Because they don't need to be repeated, they were correct.