[Edgar Alan Hoe]

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

It's a method we all have, but most of us are silly and try to suppress it.

Its a matter of honesty vs dishonesty. In order to discredit this Brazilian guy, you will need to produce evidence of him lying, like evidence has been produced against NASA.

So Tom, thank you for showing your hand, for finally giving me solid evidence that you are neither particularly rational nor scientific in your beliefs.

Because its sooo rational to trust the word of an organization which has produced fake content over the word of an organization which has not.

Because its sooo rational to discredit someone and brand them a LIAR because of an odd experience they had as a child.

THAT is irrational. Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

I'm sorry Tom, but I will not debate fantasy.

Time traveling ancient astronaughts, ancient Egyptian artifacts that realign human cells, teleportation devices and ancient Bolivian flutes that can manipulate human brainwaves are fantasy.

This is deeply silly stuff and, again, I'm surprised your need to avoid admitting to an error in judgement is pushing you to associate Zeteticism and FE with them.

All musical instruments "manipulate brainwaves". Quantum teleportation does exist. Certain vibrations and resonances do affect cell cultures.

If you actually have anything that shows them to be LIARS let us know.

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

[Frocious]

If you actually have anything that shows them to be LIARS let us know.

Same, but with JAXA.

[StinkyOne]

I generally did believe NASA and Co to be telling the truth. But when I saw some of the bubbles in space videos and sneaker prints on the moon pictures, then I didn't believe NASA as much.

Who's in the category of "and Co"?  The other space agencies? Anyone else?

I'm still very curious about this. How does Tom determine who to listen to? Why listen to this Brazilian guy, for example, instead of deGrasse Tyson? Is the Japanese space agency trustworthy, but NASA and SpaceX aren't?

He has a very thought out method for determining who to listen to, it's a method known as confirmation bias. If someone says something he already thinks, they must be trustworthy.

It's a method we all have, but most of us are silly and try to suppress it.

Its a matter of honesty vs dishonesty. In order to discredit this Brazilian guy, you will need to produce evidence of him lying, like evidence has been produced against NASA.

So Tom, thank you for showing your hand, for finally giving me solid evidence that you are neither particularly rational nor scientific in your beliefs.

Because its sooo rational to trust the word of an organization which has produced fake content over the word of an organization which has not.

Because its sooo rational to discredit someone and brand them a LIAR because of an odd experience they had as a child.

THAT is irrational. Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

I'm not calling him a liar, I am pointing out that he likely mentally ill. People who hallucinate are not lying, their reality is valid to them. They are, however, not RELIABLE to tell us the true nature of things.

From their convex Earth docu they said they launched atmospheric probes with: "iridium tracking HD cameras with gravitational lenses and infrared and ultraviolet filters." So yeah...this is basically just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. Let's start with iridium. It is a rare heavy metal that exist almost exclusive in the crust. There is some in the atmosphere, mostly deposited by meteorites. It is in tiny amounts and not something you can track with an HD camera. I guess you could say they are tracking iridium satellites, but that doesn't make sense/doesn't fit with a FE/not what they said. Second, gravitational lenses? Sounds like they heard about relativistic lensing and didn't realize it was an effect of gravity and not something you can put on your camera.

So are they lying or just idiots?

[Tom Bishop]

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

A lot of people think that the ancients were depicting UFOs in their artwork. Speculating on such is not a "lie".

I'm not calling him a liar, I am pointing out that he likely mentally ill. People who hallucinate are not lying, their reality is valid to them. They are, however, not RELIABLE to tell us the true nature of things.

The news article I posted on page one says that all of the experiments had participation of engineers and professionals at different institutes. Are you expecting us to believe that he spread his "hallucinations" to other people too?

From their convex Earth docu they said they launched atmospheric probes with: "iridium tracking HD cameras with gravitational lenses and infrared and ultraviolet filters." So yeah...this is basically just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. Let's start with iridium. It is a rare heavy metal that exist almost exclusive in the crust. There is some in the atmosphere, mostly deposited by meteorites. It is in tiny amounts and not something you can track with an HD camera. I guess you could say they are tracking iridium satellites, but that doesn't make sense/doesn't fit with a FE/not what they said. Second, gravitational lenses? Sounds like they heard about relativistic lensing and didn't realize it was an effect of gravity and not something you can put on your camera.

So are they lying or just idiots?

You do realize that there are some translation errors in this, right? We will have to see more about this before picking out a word and trying to determine its context.

[Edgar Alan Hoe]

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

A lot of people think that the ancients were depicting UFOs in their artwork. Speculating on such is not a "lie".

I'm not calling him a liar, I am pointing out that he likely mentally ill. People who hallucinate are not lying, their reality is valid to them. They are, however, not RELIABLE to tell us the true nature of things.

The news article I posted on page one says that all of the experiments had participation of engineers and professionals at different institutes. Are you expecting us to believe that he spread his "hallucinations" to other people too?

From their convex Earth docu they said they launched atmospheric probes with: "iridium tracking HD cameras with gravitational lenses and infrared and ultraviolet filters." So yeah...this is basically just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. Let's start with iridium. It is a rare heavy metal that exist almost exclusive in the crust. There is some in the atmosphere, mostly deposited by meteorites. It is in tiny amounts and not something you can track with an HD camera. I guess you could say they are tracking iridium satellites, but that doesn't make sense/doesn't fit with a FE/not what they said. Second, gravitational lenses? Sounds like they heard about relativistic lensing and didn't realize it was an effect of gravity and not something you can put on your camera.

So are they lying or just idiots?

You do realize that there are some translation errors in this, right? We will have to see more about this before picking out a word and trying to determine its context.

I love it Tom, I'm genuinely unsure whether or not your responses are parody now.

Ancient time traveling astronauts... Amazing.

[StinkyOne]

The news article I posted on page one says that all of the experiments had participation of engineers and professionals at different institutes. Are you expecting us to believe that he spread his "hallucinations" to other people too?

No, I think they are a bunch of pseudo-scientists tricking the gullible. It is laughable that you're still standing behind this stuff. This and your claims that scientists just accept blindly what came before says a lot about you. I'll leave it to the reader to interpret what that may be.

You do realize that there are some translation errors in this, right? We will have to see more about this before picking out a word and trying to determine its context.

Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. You are making a claim that there are translation errors. Prove it. Even a bad translation wouldn't have iridium tracking and gravitational lens mixed up. And frankly, what do iridium and gravity have to do with it anyway? (which is why I don't believe it is a translation error)

You say things like we don't know distances between cities and that aircraft designers don't know how fast their planes fly, but you pass this off as something worth our time? lulz, good one.

[Edgar Alan Hoe]

I like the way you are changing their own wording in an attempt to make it sound less like utter nonsense.

You missed out ancient time traveling astronauts though. Or are you just going to say you couldn't find that one?

A lot of people think that the ancients were depicting UFOs in their artwork. Speculating on such is not a "lie".

I'm not calling him a liar, I am pointing out that he likely mentally ill. People who hallucinate are not lying, their reality is valid to them. They are, however, not RELIABLE to tell us the true nature of things.

The news article I posted on page one says that all of the experiments had participation of engineers and professionals at different institutes. Are you expecting us to believe that he spread his "hallucinations" to other people too?

From their convex Earth docu they said they launched atmospheric probes with: "iridium tracking HD cameras with gravitational lenses and infrared and ultraviolet filters." So yeah...this is basically just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. Let's start with iridium. It is a rare heavy metal that exist almost exclusive in the crust. There is some in the atmosphere, mostly deposited by meteorites. It is in tiny amounts and not something you can track with an HD camera. I guess you could say they are tracking iridium satellites, but that doesn't make sense/doesn't fit with a FE/not what they said. Second, gravitational lenses? Sounds like they heard about relativistic lensing and didn't realize it was an effect of gravity and not something you can put on your camera.

So are they lying or just idiots?

You do realize that there are some translation errors in this, right? We will have to see more about this before picking out a word and trying to determine its context.

Heaven forbid anyone thinks I'm calling the co-founder of your merry band of 'scientists' a liar :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ufo.com.br/artigos/urandir-fernandes-de-oliveira-do-charlatanismo-ao-estelionato/&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjzut3Zfxpyo0Ew6GU1d-mffsf8Zg

I'm sure you have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. It is translated after all... And from a UFO site... But you don't mind that as we already know.

http://rense.com/general32/abac.htm

And who knows who wrote this... Obviously round earthers conspiring to make this poor chap appear to be lying scum.

[Tumeni]

You know, for a documentary that hasn't even been published or broadcast yet, there's a whole lot of Team Hoaxers over on YouTube happy to sing its praises already....

[Edgar Alan Hoe]

The guy appears to be a convicted con man, but apparently to an FE'er that's still more trustworthy than some round earth shill getting paid to popularize science 🙄

Yet we are the ones that need to research the facts.

[Tom Bishop]

I love it Tom, I'm genuinely unsure whether or not your responses are parody now.

Ancient time traveling astronauts... Amazing.

There is art that is thousands of years old depicting what appears to be saucer shaped ufos abducting people with tractor beams. What is wrong with speculating on what those people were trying to depict?

Can no one say "that looks like what we think of a UFO" without being discredited as a looney?

No, I think they are a bunch of pseudo-scientists tricking the gullible. It is laughable that you're still standing behind this stuff. This and your claims that scientists just accept blindly what came before says a lot about you. I'll leave it to the reader to interpret what that may be.

From the news article on page one:

"In order to carry out the geodesic experiment, the base and the top of two buildings were measured, one in Torres, Rio Grande do Sul, and the other in Natal, Rio Grande do Norte. Engineers at the National Institute of Land Settlement and Agrarian Reform (INCRA - Instituto Nacional de Colonização e Reforma Agrária) took part in these activities."

It says that engineers were involved from national institutes. Did he convince them to lie too?

Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. You are making a claim that there are translation errors. Prove it. Even a bad translation wouldn't have iridium tracking and gravitational lens mixed up. And frankly, what do iridium and gravity have to do with it anyway? (which is why I don't believe it is a translation error)

Iridium satellite tracking/communication devices are a real thing. "Gravitational lenses" are not a thing to equip a dirigible with, but I suspect that may be a translation error. Some of those high altitude telescopes do perform gravitational lensing research, and some of those sentences in that clip seem to suggest that study of stellar phenomena is involved in this documentary. It is more reasonable to wait until we have more information before jumping to conclusions based on a single word.

[Tom Bishop]

Heaven forbid anyone thinks I'm calling the co-founder of your merry band of 'scientists' a liar :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ufo.com.br/artigos/urandir-fernandes-de-oliveira-do-charlatanismo-ao-estelionato/&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjzut3Zfxpyo0Ew6GU1d-mffsf8Zg

I'm sure you have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. It is translated after all... And from a UFO site... But you don't mind that as we already know.

http://rense.com/general32/abac.htm

And who knows who wrote this... Obviously round earthers conspiring to make this poor chap appear to be lying scum.

If these allegations are true, then it does discredit this Brazilian guy. A history of lies and chicanery impeaches his work on any honest investigation.

However, since the claims and allegations seem only to come from a rival UFO organization, with which he had some kind of ongoing feud, I will withhold judgement on his character until I can find something further to corroborate their claims.

http://en.ufobr.com.br/urandir/controversy-about-the-prison-urandir-hes-innocent

Here we present evidence that shows the innocence of Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, and his arrest in Porto Alegre. For those unaware Urandir suffers persecution by an offensive line of a Brazilian UFO, which spares no efforts to discredit Urandir. One of the issues that most concern are allegations that undue harassment of irregular sales of land to farm his property in Mato Grosso do Sul Below, a document issued by the Public Prosecutor of RS on September 11, 2000, issued two days after the unfair Urandir arrest in 2000, proving that there was nothing illegal in Urandir activity. Even with this, Brazilian ufologists still made and make further charges against Urandir and insistent, using this fact without showing the evidence that we bring here

[Edgar Alan Hoe]

Heaven forbid anyone thinks I'm calling the co-founder of your merry band of 'scientists' a liar :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ufo.com.br/artigos/urandir-fernandes-de-oliveira-do-charlatanismo-ao-estelionato/&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700186,15700201&usg=ALkJrhjzut3Zfxpyo0Ew6GU1d-mffsf8Zg

I'm sure you have a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. It is translated after all... And from a UFO site... But you don't mind that as we already know.

http://rense.com/general32/abac.htm

And who knows who wrote this... Obviously round earthers conspiring to make this poor chap appear to be lying scum.

If these allegations are true, then it does discredit this Brazilian guy. A history of lies and chicanery impeaches his work on any honest investigation.

However, since the claims and allegations seem only to come from a rival UFO organization, with which he had some kind of ongoing feud, I will withhold judgement on his character until I can find something further to corroborate their claims.

http://en.ufobr.com.br/urandir/controversy-about-the-prison-urandir-hes-innocent

Here we present evidence that shows the innocence of Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, and his arrest in Porto Alegre. For those unaware Urandir suffers persecution by an offensive line of a Brazilian UFO, which spares no efforts to discredit Urandir. One of the issues that most concern are allegations that undue harassment of irregular sales of land to farm his property in Mato Grosso do Sul Below, a document issued by the Public Prosecutor of RS on September 11, 2000, issued two days after the unfair Urandir arrest in 2000, proving that there was nothing illegal in Urandir activity. Even with this, Brazilian ufologists still made and make further charges against Urandir and insistent, using this fact without showing the evidence that we bring here

Sorry Tom, but there are multiple reports on various sites of his shady dealings.

Your one article announcing his innocents and persecution is a news site run by Urandir media, his own site.

[Tom Bishop]

Sorry Tom, but there are multiple reports on various sites of his shady dealings.

Your one article announcing his innocents and persecution is a news site run by Urandir media, his own site.

How is it multiple reports from multiple sources?

The first site you provided is a nasty posting on the the rival ufo.com.br website. The second website you provided publishes nasty emails sent from people with the rival @ufo.com.br email address. It appears that these allegations are coming from one source. A source that happens to be his rival competitor.

[StinkyOne]

Sorry Tom, but there are multiple reports on various sites of his shady dealings.

Your one article announcing his innocents and persecution is a news site run by Urandir media, his own site.

How is it multiple reports from multiple sources?

The first site you provided is a nasty posting on the the rival ufo.com.br website. The second website you provided publishes nasty emails sent from people with the rival @ufo.com.br email address. It appears that these allegations are coming from one source. A source that happens to be his rival competitor.

Or we could just judge him by his own videos. Astound as he twists a fork and rips a coin in two. This isn't even main stage stuff at a freak show. He's a hack making money off the gullible.

[Tom Bishop]

So? James Randi has performed similar feats. There are Youtube videos online that teach you how to rip a coin in half. Its all about focusing on tension points.

This guy has several videos online in which he is trying to demonstrate and explain the workings of numerous phenomena.

[AATW]

So? James Randi has performed similar feats. There are Youtube videos online that teach you how to rip a coin in half. Its all about focusing on tension points.

This guy has several videos online in which he is trying to demonstrate and explain the workings of numerous phenomena.

Come on! Stop being so dishonest. You know full well that when James Randi does it he is doing it to debunk things like this.
He is showing how stage magic techniques can be used to get the same effects that people who claim to have "powers" do.
Randi's point is that these people do not have powers, they are con artists.
Randi is not claiming to have any "powers", he is explicitly saying he does not.

Compare and contrast with that YouTube video where he is clearly claiming to have powers - look at the translation of the description and the title of the video.

[Dither]

He's a hack making money off the gullible.

Or a "plant" designed to bring ridicule to the FE movement.
Most of the FEers I know are highly suspicious regarding this project.
However I agree with Tom that we should give people the benefit of the doubt.
But right now, with this new character info surfacing, its not looking good.

[Tom Bishop]

Come on! Stop being so dishonest. You know full well that when James Randi does it he is doing it to debunk things like this.
He is showing how stage magic techniques can be used to get the same effects that people who claim to have "powers" do.
Randi's point is that these people do not have powers, they are con artists.
Randi is not claiming to have any "powers", he is explicitly saying he does not.

This guy says that it is incredible what you can do when you focus. With the help of a clear mind you can do many things. I don't necessarily disagree with him that it takes power of the mind to focus and rip a coin in half. Do you?

Are you aware that every Martial Arts studio in the country attributes the feats of its students and instructors to the power of the mind?

[AATW]

Dude. The title of the video literally has the word "Paranormal" in it.
It's pretty clear he is claiming something a bit more than "focus".
It's this sort of thing Randi actively debunks so to cite him in defence of it is pretty audacious.

[Tom Bishop]

Dude. The title of the video literally has the word "Paranormal" in it.
It's pretty clear he is claiming something a bit more than "focus".
It's this sort of thing Randi actively debunks so to cite him in defence of it is pretty audacious.

Ripping a coin in half with your bare hands is a seemingly paranormal thing. I'm not surprised that some people on Youtube would describe it as such. However, if you read his materials, he does say it's it power of focus of the mind. He says that he was inspired by Uri Geller, who bent forks on television and attributed the effect to positive thinking.

I've seen similar feats attributed to the power of focus and clear/positive thinking. Its not really that offensive of an explanation. It probably does take a lot of focus and clear thinking to perform the feats seen in things like martial arts/object bending.

From his website: http://en.ufobr.com.br/urandir/urandir-his-adolescence

The power of the mind has been well researched. When used with balance is a source of security, existential sense of deep self-image and magnetizing. The mind is compared to a virgin forest: who dominates it penetrates it.

One day, at age thirteen, while having lunch, Urandir noticed that his fork was bent and bruised lips. Not satisfied, he threw it on the floor. Immediately thereafter, raking the fork, it continued to bend over and over, until it breaks. This happened at the exact moment when Uri Gueller appeared in a television program bending a fork. He was in action the power of positive thinking, acting on the fork. Amazed, the idea arose in a light that cranky boy did cry out for satisfaction:

Ah! That’s what I do! …

It was the moment when everything became clear to Urandir. Combining the facts, understand that through positive thinking, could manipulate matter and interact with something unusual. Everything became easier.

Positive thinking, clear mind, and focus makes difficult tasks become easier. Is that really so magical?

He doesn't say "this is magic!" He is providing a demonstration of a seemingly odd occurrence and giving an explanation -- the same explanation that martial artists use when they perform feats.

Are martial artists charlatans too?