1

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Im trying to build a rocket to prove the earth is flat

« on: August 15, 2019, 08:42:58 AM »

The goal is to attach a small camera to the outside of a solid state fuel rocket 3 miles into the air that will allow me to see that the earth is indeed flat.

[fundraiser link removed ~pete]

Please help.

3 Miles would be just north of 15,000 feet. Why not just take a commercial flight and look out your window, you'd be at 34k-38k feet. No rocket required.

But you still need a view of like 60 degrees to see that your assumption of a flat earth is incorrect.

And then there's that too. You're not going to see a curve at 35k feet, maybe a smidge north of 75k, a smidge more at 100k. Why this person went to all the trouble set up a gofundme for 15k is baffling.

Let's buy him a ladder, then he can have a look from 3 meters up!

2

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Im trying to build a rocket to prove the earth is flat

« on: August 15, 2019, 07:21:43 AM »

The goal is to attach a small camera to the outside of a solid state fuel rocket 3 miles into the air that will allow me to see that the earth is indeed flat.

[fundraiser link removed ~pete]

Please help.

3 Miles would be just north of 15,000 feet. Why not just take a commercial flight and look out your window, you'd be at 34k-38k feet. No rocket required.

But you still need a view of like 60 degrees to see that your assumption of a flat earth is incorrect.

3

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why should the Earth be flat?

« on: August 13, 2019, 03:15:05 PM »

Well, considering you have admitted the actual heliocentricity of the so-called solar system is, in fact, not proven...I think the "pretty good idea," is, in fact," more accurately described as "imagination."

What would you say has been proven in your FE model, and how was it proven?

I would say it is demonstrably proven that humanity, while living a normal, day-to-day life, does not witness any curvature of the earth.

Within my normal day-to-day life I witness the sun rise and set, and thus I do not witness any flat earth. So does humanity.

The shape of the sun and what you perceive to be rising and setting has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Then explain it please. How can I see a sunset or sunrise if the earth were flat.

Or explain why it has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

4

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why should the Earth be flat?

« on: August 13, 2019, 12:57:55 PM »

Well, considering you have admitted the actual heliocentricity of the so-called solar system is, in fact, not proven...I think the "pretty good idea," is, in fact," more accurately described as "imagination."

What would you say has been proven in your FE model, and how was it proven?

I would say it is demonstrably proven that humanity, while living a normal, day-to-day life, does not witness any curvature of the earth.

Within my normal day-to-day life I witness the sun rise and set, and thus I do not witness any flat earth. So does humanity.

5

Flat Earth Theory / Re: On the subject of astronomy I beg to differ!

« on: August 13, 2019, 09:03:01 AM »

You are referring to this page: https://wiki.tfes.org/Astronomy_is_a_Pseudoscience

Astronomy is literally a pseudoscience, as it relies on observation and interpretation.

Phys.org says:

https://phys.org/news/2014-11-scientists-distinguishes-science-pseudoscience.html

Pseudoscience mimics aspects of science while fundamentally denying the scientific method. A useful definition of the scientific method is:

principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

A key phrase is "testing of hypotheses". We test hypotheses because they can be wrong.

To me it looks like Tom proved himself wrong. Taking the definition of the scientific method (in Tom's words):

principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

It contains the word 'observation'. And that is what scientists and people do in astronomy. They observe. So observing the sky is according to the scientific method, based on Tom's own quote.

The going on, I agree with Tom as he says:

A key phrase is "testing of hypotheses". We test hypotheses because they can be wrong.

Yes that is correct! I agree with the phrase stated by Tom! And that is why I look at the sky every day and night, observe the sunrise, sunset, the moon, phases of the moon, eclipses, stars, planets, other moons, galaxies and test the 'sphere earth model' every day and night. And guess what? So far I have not observed something wrong with it!

6

Flat Earth Community / Re: "Round earth" conspiracy

« on: August 06, 2019, 04:10:55 PM »

I totally agree with the statements above. And I wonder why no flat-earther has replied yet. Do they know they are wrong?

Refrain from "me too" posts, and more generally, posts that don't contribute anything to the topic.

Please show me ONE post of a flat earther that contributed to a topic. Then I will apologize.

7

Flat Earth Community / Re: "Round earth" conspiracy

« on: August 06, 2019, 03:44:20 PM »

I totally agree with the statements above. And I wonder why no flat-earther has replied yet. Do they know they are wrong?

8

Flat Earth Community / Re: "Round earth" conspiracy

« on: August 06, 2019, 11:18:08 AM »

A question for flat earth believers: How, do you think, is the "round earth" conspiracy working? How is it kept a secret? How does the conspiracy hire new people? How many people 'know' the 'truth'? Why hasn't it leaked yet?

Are you of the opinion conspiracies, in general, exist?

In general conspiracies can exist. But after some time the truth comes out, the earlier the bigger the conspiracy is.

9

Flat Earth Community / "Round earth" conspiracy

« on: August 06, 2019, 06:29:04 AM »

A question for flat earth believers: How, do you think, is the "round earth" conspiracy working? How is it kept a secret? How does the conspiracy hire new people? How many people 'know' the 'truth'? Why hasn't it leaked yet?

10

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Earth Stands Fast

« on: July 19, 2019, 12:45:23 PM »

That's the same person. Dr. Bennett holds a Ph.D. in Physics and agrees that the experimental evidence for Heliocentrism is insufficient.

I don't know why you guys are dancing around it. It says right here by Dr. Croca:

In the book Unified Field Mechanics II we find a paper by Physicist José R. Croca, Ph.D. (bio), where we see:

  “  Since the realization of this experiment, which has been done with photons [25], electrons [26] and neutrons [27], many trials have been made to interpret the observed results seen, for instance, Selleri [28]. Indeed, Sagnac utilized the habitual linear additive rule and with that he was able to correctly predict the observed results. Still, since his prediction lead to velocities greater than c and consequently are against relativity which claims that the maximal possible velocity is c this raised a large amount of arguing. In fact, many authors tried to explain the results of the experiment in the framework of relativity which assumed that the maximal possible velocity is c. As can be seen in the literature, there are almost as many explanations as the authors that have tried to explain the results in the framework of relativity. In some cases the same author [29] presents even more than one possible explanation. The complexity of the problem stems mainly from the fact that the experiment is done in a rotating platform. In such case, there may occur a possible accelerating effect leading the explanation of the experiment to fall in the framework of general relativity.

This controversy, whether Sagnac experiment is against or in accordance with relativity, was settled recently by R. Wang et al. [30] with a very interesting experimental setup they called linear Sagac interferometer. In this case the platform is still, what moves is a single mode optical fiber coil, Fig. 12.



They did the experiment with a 50 meter length linear interferometer with wheels of 30 cm. The observed relative phase shift difference for the two beams of light following in opposite directions along the optical fiber was indeed dependent only on the length of the interferometer and consequently independent of the angular velocity of the wheels. From the experimental results obtained with the linear Sagnac interferometer one is lead to conclude that in this particular case the linear additive rule applies. Consequently we may have velocities greater than c, which clearly shows that relativity is not adequate to describe this specific physical process. ”

Its highly unlikely that something can move faster than 'c'.

But still, absolutely independent of that, earth is not flat!

11

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Earth Stands Fast

« on: July 19, 2019, 06:45:30 AM »

Einstein said that light was constant for all observervers, and that this explained experiments such as Michelson-Morley and Airy's Failure (Funny how there are motionless earth experiments that need to be explained). However, his explanation was directly contradicted by experiments showing that light does change velocity to different observers when motion is involved, including velocities faster than c!

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sagnac_Experiment#Wang_Experiment

Yet, despite the explanation being directly contradicted by experiment, with the admission by mainstream sources that it does contradict relativity, the RE still cling to the belief of terrestrial motion!

There is no motion faster than the speed of light. And light appears to travel at the speed of light for every observer.

What you just claim is incorrect.

Also, the referenced paper in the link you shown does not mention any speed >c at all. Just check yourself.

12

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Earth Stands Fast

« on: July 19, 2019, 06:28:40 AM »

Incorrect. That experiment was to determine if the aether is a background medium of space which light flows through.

Kindly read the article. The experiment is merely measuring the velocity of light. Aether is just a medium for light like ripples in water.

Morley wrote to his father that the purpose of the experiment was “to see if light travels with the same velocity in all directions.”

https://physicsworld.com/a/michelson-morley-experiment-is-best-yet/ (Archive)

Michelson–Morley experiment is best yet

  “ Physicists in Germany have performed the most precise Michelson-Morley experiment to date, confirming that the speed of light is the same in all directions. The experiment, which involves rotating two optical cavities, is about 10 times more precise than previous experiments – and a hundred million times more precise than Michelson and Morley’s 1887 measurement. ”

The purpose is to measure the speed of light in different directions.

Morley wrote to his father that the purpose of the experiment was “to see if light travels with the same velocity in all directions.”

Yes that is exactly true! Does the light still has the same velocity in all direction despite earth's known motion around the sun? Yes, that is correct!

13

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Earth Stands Fast

« on: July 19, 2019, 06:15:18 AM »

You do seem to cling on to all the 'ancient reasonings' when it comes to astronomy and all things celestial don't you Tom. While ignoring all the progress that has been made since then which has changed our interpretations and understanding of the subject.

I believe that I just mentioned an experiment, Sagnac and Wang, which directly contradicted the explanation given for the motionless earth experiments, and it was you who ignored them.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sagnac_Experiment#Wang_Experiment

These three experiments don't seem to agree with Heliocentrism:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Michelson-Morley_Experiment

This experiment was to determine if the aether exists or not. Scientists back them mostly believed that the aether exists. But with science (unlike flat earth), you just don't believe, but you have to verify your assumption experimentally. That is the Michelson-Morley_Experiment.

To the great surprise of the scientists, the experiment did not confirm the existence of the aether. The aether does not exist!

But, as scientists (unlike flat earthers), they have to adapt to the new knowledge that the ether does not exist. The solution of the problem the scientists wanted to understand with the aether was finally resolved with Einsteins special theory of relativity.

Aether was the background medium of space which light flowed through.

Incorrect. That experiment was to determine if the aether is a background medium of space which light flows through.

The result: No, there is no aether as a background medium of space which light flows through. Light does not flow through such a background medium. That was the result of the Michelson-Morley_Experiment.

The fact that the earth moves around the sun was a well established fact at that time and a premise in the experiment itself!

14

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Earth Stands Fast

« on: July 19, 2019, 06:05:10 AM »

These three experiments don't seem to agree with Heliocentrism:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Michelson-Morley_Experiment

This experiment was to determine if the aether exists or not. Scientists back them mostly believed that the aether exists. But with science (unlike flat earth), you just don't believe, but you have to verify your assumption experimentally. That is the Michelson-Morley_Experiment.

To the great surprise of the scientists, the experiment did not confirm the existence of the aether. The aether does not exist!

But, as scientists (unlike flat earthers), they have to adapt to the new knowledge that the ether does not exist. The solution of the problem the scientists wanted to understand with the aether was finally resolved with Einsteins special theory of relativity.

15

Flat Earth Community / Re: Flat earthers in Switzerland

« on: July 05, 2019, 11:50:58 AM »

Well, best of luck. Be forewarned: in my experience, not many FE'ers will be happy to reveal their location, let alone meet a complete stranger.

Then again, I'm on the more extreme end of that spectrum, so perhaps you'll be just fine

I do not want anyone to reveal their location. I am just happy to organize a meeting in a bar by private messaging. No real names or addresses required.

16

Flat Earth Community / Re: Flat earthers in Switzerland

« on: July 05, 2019, 11:41:36 AM »

You're extremely unlikely to get any responses unless you explain why you're looking for someone to disclose their location to you, and what's in it for them.

I just want to have a respectful discussion with them, of why they believe that earth is flat. That's all.

I guess I can spend a beer or two. No problem.

17

Flat Earth Community / Flat earthers in Switzerland

« on: July 05, 2019, 05:25:42 AM »

Hello,

I am looking for flat earth believers in Switzerland. If you know a flat earther from Switzerland I appreciate if you can let me know.

Thanks a lot

18

Flat Earth Theory / How does the apparent movement of the sun tells us the earth is flat?

« on: July 04, 2019, 08:16:24 AM »

In the FAQ I saw the following statement conerning flat earth evidence:

the movement of the Sun

How exactly can the apparent movement of the sun tell us the earth is not a sphere?