441

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 10:16:16 PM »

The merger will result in a unified community with better administration. You obviously dislike the way Daniel is handling things, and this unification will hopefully resolve that. I don't understand your concerns.

And I fear you may never. However, I find myself repeating arguments so I'll abstain from further comments on the topic. I feel that I stated my opinion as well as I could and we may be forced to accept our misunderstandings are at an impass.

442

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 09:24:55 PM »

Oh, so it's not really about reuniting a community as much as getting the .org with the higher Google results?  That's fine if that's what it is, but it really shouldn't be called a reunification proposal.

There is a thread about it on the other forum.

However, as we are not full members there (not all of us anyway) we do not have a say in the political procedures.  Daniel, Wilmore, and Davis are the ones who should be talking to you about it, making a poll, etc...

You can't expect us to do this work for you when it's not our forum.

I'm sure that the natives in the Mid-Americas would have liked to have been consulted when France sold a large landmass to the United States government.  Does it make it okay because the French government sucked?  Does it make the voices of the purchased less meaningful?  Did they feel okay about being acquired because their comments fell upon the deaf ears of their government?

Or, do you think that it would have been nice if there were even allowed to vote?  It's not like we're talking about strangers, these are people engaged in a community that is about to be merged and because our "government" is ineffective and aloof we get no say.  And when one tries to make their voice heard, their vote is stricken away.  Gotham isn't a stranger either, we all know him (or at least of him).

I have no experience with how these forums are ran, but it seems to me that we will be replacing one tyrant for another. 


I will be perfectly happy to have Gotham's vote unstricken.  I feel it will show that the administration of this forum is at least amiable to the wants of the members of the "old" forum.

Why?
This vote is for this forum's members.  Why not just make a poll on your end?  Based on what I know about the admins here, if there was a sizable "no" on that end, they'd probably bring that issue up before the merger.

Or would you prefer I do it for you?

It's your problem because of this, "It's not our problem" attitude.  A significant portion of the people being effected by the merger have no voice in it whatsoever (Their side doesn't listen and their vote is taken away by the side that expounds its benevolence to the users -- Am I seriously the only one that sees the irony in that?) and when that issue is addressed we get a response that amounts to "lol, not our problem."

Try imagining it in reverse; Saddam posts a link on these forums that says the "old" site is going to merge with this site and all the rules from theirs will override.  The admins on the site you actively post on are non-existent (remember, you're pretending) and when you wander over to the other to see if your voice matters, you are told that only posters that have >50 posts on this site can vote (mind you that the deadline to obtain 50 posts was set in the past).  You say that this is going to effect you and you should at the very least have a say and all you get are replies saying, "Sorry, not our problem.  Try talking to your admins that we all know don't respond to anyone."

Do you begin to at least see the point of view I'm raising?  Do you begin to see why, "it's not our problem" sounds indecorous in light of the position we are in?

I understand your point.  Now here's mine.

You chose to stay.  You chose admins who don't give a damn.  You chose a poorly run forum.  This isn't like two countries: you could move with the ease of a few clicks.  Hell, you could have posted in BOTH forums and we wouldn't care.    The way I see it, you basically said "Yes, I will let Daniel decide the forum."  It was your choice and now that Daniel is doing it, you're being angry.  I'm sorry but Daniel is your representative in the forum merger just like PP and Parsifal is ours.

Though if you think a poll would be useless, why do you want to vote here?  It would be equally useless then, wouldn't it?

I understand most of your point (more on that later) and have been trying to get people to realize that this merger feels like a slap in the face.  Like no one cares what we think or how we feel.  And it sets a poor prescience for the pending merger.  I'm sorry I didn't make 50 arbitrary posts here before Dec 27th.  Perhaps if I had people would see me as one of them, not one of the others.

I don't understand your question about the poll.

443

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 09:20:48 PM »

The poll is limited to people who had made at least fifty posts prior to Dec 27th simply to ensure that everyone voting is at least reasonably invested in the community here.  It sucks that gotham's vote can't be counted, as we all know that he's sincere despite his low post count, but I can't think of a better way to make sure that the voting is representative of our community, and it would be something of a slippery slope to start making exceptions on an individual basis.

I agree.

I don't think you understand, Pongo. Your voice isn't being heard because your administration decided it doesn't need to be heard. It's not our problem how Daniel decides how things are run on his site, and it's not our job to invite people from Daniel's site to raise their concerns in regards to how our site is run. I'm sorry, but it just seems to me like you have a problem with Daniel, not us. He's the one who's decided to not give his community the courtesy of making this kind of decision for themselves.

I've already addressed the "it's not our problem" argument.

What are you trying to prove with that poll?  All it shows me is your inability to listen to my concerns and responses as you bull ahead with your initial proposal that's already been addressed as flawed.

Well what are your concerns then? You're angry that no one is listening and then get angry when someone tries to make a poll about it on that site - what is it that you want to be heard?

The poll is clearly a farce.  It's patronizing and as relevant as a poll on your favorite ice cream flavor if the results aren't used for anything.  Vauxhall can't assure anyone that the poll is anything other than hot air.  Has any administrator of either site said they would factor in the results of this poll?  It's like telling me you'll listen to me after you lock me in a soundproof room and frankly, your obtusity in matter is insulting.

If I just wanted to hear myself talk I would post in CN.

The only people who could make a meaningful poll, then, are Daniel and Wilmore, right? So why are you complaining to us?

I've already addressed the "it's not our problem" argument.

What are your concerns about the merger?

About the merger specifically?  Nothing really.  My concerns are about the way a significant portion of the people effected are being steamrolled while at the same time people are throwing around worlds like "community," "unity," "unification."  It all seems so dichotomous when people say things like "We're merging whether you like it our not and it's not our problem if no one will listen to you.  We are going to hold a vote to determine if the will happen but you can only vote if you have 50 or more posts in our club.  It's no matter if you have been a member of society as a greater, if you don't have 50 posts in our club you cannot be heard.  We will not even grant you a token of friendship by allowing 1 meaningless vote; it's 50 posts or you may as well be a stump.  No matter that we are about to merge with you, we simply don't care what you have to say.  Perhaps if you have 50 posts in our club then we would hear you, but you don't.  Sorry (not really sorry though).  But don't feel bad, of the two societies we are the one that cares about the users*"

If all else were equal and things were reversed I know the users here would voice a concern.

I guess in the end, it's nice that your community gets a voice.  Never mind that it's soon to be our community.



*Users with 50 or more posts in our club mind you.  The rest can all bugger yourselves for it's not our problem that you didn't make your 50 arbitrary posts before our arbitrary deadline we set in the past.  And it's not our problem your administration sucks.

444

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 08:42:32 PM »

What are you trying to prove with that poll?  All it shows me is your inability to listen to my concerns and responses as you bull ahead with your initial proposal that's already been addressed as flawed.

Well what are your concerns then? You're angry that no one is listening and then get angry when someone tries to make a poll about it on that site - what is it that you want to be heard?

The poll is clearly a farce.  It's patronizing and as relevant as a poll on your favorite ice cream flavor if the results aren't used for anything.  Vauxhall can't assure anyone that the poll is anything other than hot air.  Has any administrator of either site said they would factor in the results of this poll?  It's like telling me you'll listen to me after you lock me in a soundproof room and frankly, your obtusity in matter is insulting.

If I just wanted to hear myself talk I would post in CN.

445

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 08:28:43 PM »

A history lesson for Vauxy. The old site has been run badly for many many years. Those with the get up and go to try something else came here. Those with no desire to do anything about the shit state of affairs on the other site, stayed. Pongo stayed. How then do you think he is going to muster the energy with all the other can't be bothered to change anything members of his site to actually change something? All the people who would do anything about the mistreatment of users on the other site are already here.

I've been a member since 2007. I am aware of the concerns.


I have created the poll.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62575.0#.VLQtACvF9fQ

What are you trying to prove with that poll?  All it shows me is your inability to listen to my concerns and responses as you bull ahead with your initial proposal that's already been addressed as flawed.

446

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 08:16:34 PM »

I know pizaaplanet will rush in here to tell everyone my opinion is that of a crazed loon and not to listen and that I've had my say, but it seems despite Pongo confirming my suspicions about the attitudes and motives of our new overlords, no one is listening. Hearing yes, listening, no. I cannot have my way on this as I am in the minority, but I'd very much like to store up a huge "I told you so" and this is part of it.

I appreciate your words and agree with you on most points, but to be fair, I'm being steamrolled by the members here, not the administration.  I think that I've articulately presented my point and I wait the feelings and comments of people that can speak for the merger -- not at the merger. 

I'm lingering to try and clarify my position and get the people self-admitting ignorance to at least see my point of view.  It's easy to not be empathetic when you're in the majority, but I'll see what I can do about that.

447

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 08:03:06 PM »

Oh, so it's not really about reuniting a community as much as getting the .org with the higher Google results?  That's fine if that's what it is, but it really shouldn't be called a reunification proposal.

There is a thread about it on the other forum.

However, as we are not full members there (not all of us anyway) we do not have a say in the political procedures.  Daniel, Wilmore, and Davis are the ones who should be talking to you about it, making a poll, etc...

You can't expect us to do this work for you when it's not our forum.

I'm sure that the natives in the Mid-Americas would have liked to have been consulted when France sold a large landmass to the United States government.  Does it make it okay because the French government sucked?  Does it make the voices of the purchased less meaningful?  Did they feel okay about being acquired because their comments fell upon the deaf ears of their government?

Or, do you think that it would have been nice if there were even allowed to vote?  It's not like we're talking about strangers, these are people engaged in a community that is about to be merged and because our "government" is ineffective and aloof we get no say.  And when one tries to make their voice heard, their vote is stricken away.  Gotham isn't a stranger either, we all know him (or at least of him).

I have no experience with how these forums are ran, but it seems to me that we will be replacing one tyrant for another. 


I will be perfectly happy to have Gotham's vote unstricken.  I feel it will show that the administration of this forum is at least amiable to the wants of the members of the "old" forum.

Why?
This vote is for this forum's members.  Why not just make a poll on your end?  Based on what I know about the admins here, if there was a sizable "no" on that end, they'd probably bring that issue up before the merger.

Or would you prefer I do it for you?

It's your problem because of this, "It's not our problem" attitude.  A significant portion of the people being effected by the merger have no voice in it whatsoever (Their side doesn't listen and their vote is taken away by the side that expounds its benevolence to the users -- Am I seriously the only one that sees the irony in that?) and when that issue is addressed we get a response that amounts to "lol, not our problem."

Try imagining it in reverse; Saddam posts a link on these forums that says the "old" site is going to merge with this site and all the rules from theirs will override.  The admins on the site you actively post on are non-existent (remember, you're pretending) and when you wander over to the other to see if your voice matters, you are told that only posters that have >50 posts on this site can vote (mind you that the deadline to obtain 50 posts was set in the past).  You say that this is going to effect you and you should at the very least have a say and all you get are replies saying, "Sorry, not our problem.  Try talking to your admins that we all know don't respond to anyone."

Do you begin to at least see the point of view I'm raising?  Do you begin to see why, "it's not our problem" sounds indecorous in light of the position we are in?

448

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 07:30:27 PM »

Because we all know that a poll on my end will be as effective as... well as effective as the incumbent administration.

To carry my analogy further, what I'm doing is lobbying the American government (sorry for the comparison) to at least hear us.  The American population seems to not care about the voices of the ones their government is taking over (not sorry for that one, it's too accurate).  In fact, they care so little, they object to a vote be unstricken that won't even change the outcome.  Is the notion of us even be given a meaningless token to acknowledge the administration is listening really that much of an affront to you?  It seems to me like a very reasonable request.


On a side, if I have indeed misread all of this and the thread is truly only for people on this site with >50 posts as of late December, I am sorry and I will quietly await our "unification".

449

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 06:59:16 PM »

Oh, so it's not really about reuniting a community as much as getting the .org with the higher Google results?  That's fine if that's what it is, but it really shouldn't be called a reunification proposal.

There is a thread about it on the other forum.

However, as we are not full members there (not all of us anyway) we do not have a say in the political procedures.  Daniel, Wilmore, and Davis are the ones who should be talking to you about it, making a poll, etc...

You can't expect us to do this work for you when it's not our forum.

I'm sure that the natives in the Mid-Americas would have liked to have been consulted when France sold a large landmass to the United States government.  Does it make it okay because the French government sucked?  Does it make the voices of the purchased less meaningful?  Did they feel okay about being acquired because their comments fell upon the deaf ears of their government?

Or, do you think that it would have been nice if there were even allowed to vote?  It's not like we're talking about strangers, these are people engaged in a community that is about to be merged and because our "government" is ineffective and aloof we get no say.  And when one tries to make their voice heard, their vote is stricken away.  Gotham isn't a stranger either, we all know him (or at least of him).

I have no experience with how these forums are ran, but it seems to me that we will be replacing one tyrant for another. 


I will be perfectly happy to have Gotham's vote unstricken.  I feel it will show that the administration of this forum is at least amiable to the wants of the members of the "old" forum.

450

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 06:42:28 PM »

Are they talking about this merger at all on the other forum?

A few members are but the administration has remained characteristically taciturn.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61930.0#.VLQVxtLF-Gc

451

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 06:35:05 PM »

Oh, so it's not really about reuniting a community as much as getting the .org with the higher Google results?  That's fine if that's what it is, but it really shouldn't be called a reunification proposal.

452

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: January 12, 2015, 06:22:48 PM »

Also, not voting on a proposal you're opposed to is the least productive thing possible. We can't hope to accurately represent what people want if they actively hold themselves back from telling us what they want.

I'm sure you mean accurately represent what people want who fell on your side of the schism.

...I'm happy to discuss things at length to make sure that everyone is informed and satisfied. Just, please, don't succumb to random panic.

Again, everyone with 50 or more posts on tfes.org prior to ~Dec 27th right?

453

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: December 30, 2014, 03:58:02 PM »

The two societies' forums will be merged by way of tfes.org inheriting theflatearthsociety.org's database. The resultant forum will remain under the current administration, moderation and rules of tfes.org.

Does this mean that I will be effectively demodded?

I forgot you existed.

That's a pretty harsh response after all the EXCELLENT moderating I did for you in regards to harassment issues in the past.

For what it's worth, mod or not, I'm still in favor of reunification.  The under forums are so stale without all you Morlocks.

454

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: REQUEST FOR COMMENTS: Reunification Proposal

« on: December 30, 2014, 03:16:40 PM »

The two societies' forums will be merged by way of tfes.org inheriting theflatearthsociety.org's database. The resultant forum will remain under the current administration, moderation and rules of tfes.org.

Does this mean that I will be effectively demodded?

455

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification

« on: August 29, 2014, 04:35:18 PM »

Thank you for your response, Pizzaplanet.  Have you entertained the idea that Daniel may not know the answer to your query and as a result is avoiding sending a reply?

456

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification

« on: August 28, 2014, 01:34:00 PM »

Can I get an update on the progress of this conversion?  I need to present in front of the board in 25 min.

457

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: On the notion of FES reunification

« on: August 06, 2014, 08:01:20 PM »

Thork will come back for me.