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Online xasop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #700 on: September 13, 2021, 10:21:41 AM »
False equivalence. Someone like that would actually be unpleasant to be around. Someone who hasn't been vaccinated would...well, you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference unless they told you.
It's still a personal choice. Why do you get to decide which personal choices are acceptable and which aren't?

How much of a hazard to others are the unvaccinated really?
There are some people who cannot get vaccinated due to allergies. Granted, they are a very tiny minority, but they depend on other people to get vaccinated to reduce the risk of spreading the virus. Someone who chooses not to get vaccinated is putting the health of such people at risk.

Other than that, there's the discussion we've already had about the risk of incubating a vaccine-resistant strain.

I've not seen any data which would indicate to me that unvaccinated people are such a big public health risk to others that they should be treated like second class citizens.
Well, that's the thing. There won't be any data about a new vaccine-resistant strain until it already exists and people are getting sick from it. Similarly, in January 2020 there were no data to suggest shutting down international travel was warranted, and look where that got us.

Proper preventative measures are necessarily based on what is likely to work, not what we have data on. That's what makes them preventative. This implies that we must err on the side of caution, even if it turns out later that some measures were unnecessary.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #701 on: September 13, 2021, 11:34:10 AM »
There is no FDA approved vaccine.

FDA approval means biological approval.

If there was biological approval for the Pfizer vaccine, then the other versions would be pulled from the market and the EUA's revoked.

That hasn't happened.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #702 on: September 13, 2021, 11:39:15 AM »
I've not seen any data which would indicate to me that unvaccinated people are such a big public health risk to others that they should be treated like second class citizens.
How about the tens of thousands of people occupying hospital beds and using up resources for something which was, frankly, avoidable? The time off work that front line health care staff have to take after getting infected? Even fully vaxxed, there is still a short window of transmissability - and their job is literally working with vulnerable people

You haven't seen the data because you haven't looked. Or operate with a critical mind. Or care. You only look for what matches your bias. And your bias is wrong

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #703 on: September 13, 2021, 12:10:56 PM »
Proper preventative measures are necessarily based on what is likely to work, not what we have data on. That's what makes them preventative. This implies that we must err on the side of caution, even if it turns out later that some measures were unnecessary.
Largely agreed but any measures should be proportionate to the risk those measures are designed to mitigate.
There's always a risk of any virus mutating
The risk of Covid...well, the overall CFR is around 1%, then there's "Long Covid" which I haven't seen much data around. It obviously causes pressure on health services which has knock on effects.
This isn't a "holy shit there are piles of bodies in the streets" level event. The trouble is some people think that because of that it's not a situation which requires any response at all. It clearly does.
Whether that response should have included lockdowns - I'm sceptical, particularly the way our idiots did it which was to implement lockdowns far too late and with so many caveats and exceptions so to render them ineffective.
I'm also sceptical that the risk posed by the unvaccinated is high enough that they should be prevented from attending certain events or holding certain jobs*.
I'm a bit unsettled at this creating a "two tier society", even if people are choosing which tier to be in.

(*That said - my wife used to work in a care home, they are getting rid of staff who won't be vaccinated - won't as opposed to can't. I do think there is a case to be made for that in jobs where you are dealing with vulnerable people all day...although I'd note that the NHS aren't making the same rule, because they'd be screwed if they did, where care workers are 10 a penny)
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #704 on: September 13, 2021, 12:35:36 PM »
I've not seen any data which would indicate to me that unvaccinated people are such a big public health risk to others that they should be treated like second class citizens.
How about the tens of thousands of people occupying hospital beds and using up resources for something which was, frankly, avoidable?
How was it avoidable?

By getting the vaccine?

If that was the case, then ZERO vaccinated people would not be hospitalized.

Israel, you don't want to mention Israel.
The time off work that front line health care staff have to take after getting infected? Even fully vaxxed, there is still a short window of transmissability - and their job is literally working with vulnerable people

You haven't seen the data because you haven't looked. Or operate with a critical mind. Or care. You only look for what matches your bias. And your bias is wrong.
You need to go back and play in your regular filth.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #705 on: September 13, 2021, 12:42:19 PM »
Proper preventative measures are necessarily based on what is likely to work, not what we have data on. That's what makes them preventative. This implies that we must err on the side of caution, even if it turns out later that some measures were unnecessary.
Largely agreed but any measures should be proportionate to the risk those measures are designed to mitigate.
There's always a risk of any virus mutating
The risk of Covid...well, the overall CFR is around 1%, then there's "Long Covid" which I haven't seen much data around. It obviously causes pressure on health services which has knock on effects.
This isn't a "holy shit there are piles of bodies in the streets" level event. The trouble is some people think that because of that it's not a situation which requires any response at all. It clearly does.
Whether that response should have included lockdowns - I'm sceptical, particularly the way our idiots did it which was to implement lockdowns far too late and with so many caveats and exceptions so to render them ineffective.
I'm also sceptical that the risk posed by the unvaccinated is high enough that they should be prevented from attending certain events or holding certain jobs*.
I'm a bit unsettled at this creating a "two tier society", even if people are choosing which tier to be in.

(*That said - my wife used to work in a care home, they are getting rid of staff who won't be vaccinated - won't as opposed to can't. I do think there is a case to be made for that in jobs where you are dealing with vulnerable people all day...although I'd note that the NHS aren't making the same rule, because they'd be screwed if they did, where care workers are 10 a penny)

You forget the law of large numbers

A covid fatality rate of 1%.... Letting covid rip through America would cause millions of deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/24/more-than-2m-adults-in-england-have-had-long-covid-for-over-12-weeks-study

This article points to research (yet to be peer reviewed) that long covid (still affected after 12 weeks) affected 37.7% of people. So potentially tens of millions suffering long covid if no vaccines and no measures taken. And lets be honest, covid is here to stay and will continue to mutate and affect you again and again and it's going to catch everyone eventually - like 'The Cold'. Imagine a 1% CFR each time it mutates and turns into something else. You want to take that chance year after year? Natural immunity wont work. Just like getting infected with influenza wont protect you next year from influenza

Do you think that when someone dies or ends up in hospital that it doesn't cost the economy money? Every death hurts the economy. Having 1% of your population die and many more % of people staying sick for months would sting it worse than lockdowns

Currently the overwhelming majority of covid related deaths (as in ~99%) now are among the unvaccinated. The breakthrough infections that lead to death are usually in people with co-morbidities or elderly. In a place like America, to not be vaccinated at this point in time is because you chose not to.

This is from Texas 2 months ago

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/
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    Of the 8,787 people who have died in Texas due to COVID-19 since early February, at least 43 were fully vaccinated, the Texas Department of State Health Services said.

    That means 99.5% of people who died due to COVID-19 in Texas from Feb. 8 to July 14 were unvaccinated, while 0.5% were the result of “breakthrough infections,” which DSHS defines as people who contracted the virus two weeks after being fully vaccinated.

    The agency said nearly 75% of the 43 vaccinated people who died were fighting a serious underlying condition, such as diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, cancer or chronic lung disease.

    Additionally, it said 95% of the 43 vaccinated people who died were 60 or older, and that a majority of them were white and a majority were men.

    DSHS noted that these are preliminary numbers, which could change because each case must be confirmed through public health investigations. Statewide, more than 50,000 people have died of COVID-19 since March 2020, but the rate of deaths has slowed dramatically since vaccines became widely available in April.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 12:44:24 PM by Shifter »

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #706 on: September 13, 2021, 12:50:04 PM »
Dick Farrel, 65, used his local talk show and social media to rail against Dr. Anthony Fauci, who he called a “power tripping lying freak,” and say that no one should get the coronavirus vaccine. “Why take a vax promoted by people who lied 2u all along about masks.”

Phil Valentine A conservative radio host in Tennessee
“Let me tell you how it will be,” he sang, “and I don’t care if you agree, ‘Cause I’m the Vaxman, yeah I’m the Vaxman. If you don’t like me coming round, be thankful I don’t hold you down.”

Marc Bernier, a talk radio host in Daytona Beach for 30 years
He also tweeted that the U.S. government was “acting like Nazi’s” because officials were urging people to get vaccinated.

All dead. Lots of their believers are dead too.


Maybe we should start a thread in the lower forums mocking all the antivaxxer pundits, preachers and talk media blowhards that died from covid while they were mocking the vaccine. It would be a long list.
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #707 on: September 13, 2021, 12:55:42 PM »
Maybe we should start a thread in the lower forums mocking all the antivaxxer pundits, preachers and talk media blowhards that died from covid while they were mocking the vaccine. It would be a long list.

Good riddance to them. There are reddit threads devoted to mocking them already such as covidatemyface or the HermainCainAward

There is also www.sorryantivaxxer.com

Great for a LOL at their ultimate comeuppance

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #708 on: September 13, 2021, 01:11:16 PM »
"We want you to live so much that we will make sure you cannot work in order to put a roof over your head or food in your stomach if you do not comply." - Joe Biden

I don't think thats a thing he said.
Yeah, he pretty much did say exactly that.

He also stated, "We are going to protect the vaccinated against the unvaccinated."

LMMFAO.

They can give me the shot of my choice when it comes time.
Then you should probably quote what he literally said, not what he "pretty much" said.  Paraphrasing is not your strong suit.
I know what he literally stated.
Yet continue to not quote him properly.  Much like Trump and his "huge evidence" of election fraud, I suspect you are lying and don't actually know what he said.  But please, prove me wrong.
I don't need to quote exactly what he stated.

The essence of what he stated is this. You comply with these directives or you do not work.
I'm asking you to, as to lend credibility to your statement.  Why is this so hard for you?  What are you trying to avoid?  Because if you're right, you have nothing to worry about.  But if you're lying, well... You have everything to hide.

Quote
Quote
I know the logical conclusion of not being able to work if your not vaccinated.
Same as if you get sick: you don't work.  Or you lie and say you're hung over.  Pretty simple.

Quote
Ergo, I am right and you, as usual, are wrong.

The world will be a much better place when you and people of your ilk are gone.
Considering I didn't say you were wrong, just bad at paraphrasing, I'm curious what I am wrong about.
Most everything in your life.
Good to know that you're stalking me and have spent unknown hours reading about my life.
Quote
Also... Why would me and my ilk be gone?  We're the followers.  The sheep.  We're the ones the powers want to keep.  You, however, are a problem for the New World Order.

Unless your ilk are the ones who are poisoning the vaccines to kill everyone else.
Yes, you would love for everyone to believe you are a sheep.
Don't you already think that?  Or are you the sheep?
I'm confused.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Online xasop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #709 on: September 13, 2021, 02:34:43 PM »
Largely agreed but any measures should be proportionate to the risk those measures are designed to mitigate.
There are multiple factors involved in determining whether a measure is reasonable or not, and risk is only one of them. Another important factor is how much of a burden the regulation is on the individuals to whom it applies, and in this case it's asking them to take half an hour out of their busy schedule to take a treatment which approximately all experts agree is perfectly safe, and which may save other people's lives.

Most people go their entire life never being helped by a seatbelt, but it's considered reasonable to require everyone to wear them because it's not a huge inconvenience to buckle up.

I'm a bit unsettled at this creating a "two tier society", even if people are choosing which tier to be in.
I also don't agree with that assessment, incidentally. The purpose of these measures should not be to punish the unvaccinated, but to motivate them to get vaccinated. Once the vaccination rate levels off again, there is no longer a purpose to such restrictions and they should be abolished.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 02:36:39 PM by xasop »
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #710 on: September 13, 2021, 05:34:52 PM »


The mandate would be unconstitutional.

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #711 on: September 13, 2021, 05:55:17 PM »


The mandate would be unconstitutional.

He's a tax lawyer and a youtube personality.  Not sure I'd trust his professional opinion.  Find me a constitutional lawyer.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #712 on: September 13, 2021, 06:29:00 PM »
I have a constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I expect the Constitution to protect me from ignorant Hillbillies spreading their viral pathogens and Putin's propaganda throughout the community.

There may be a stand your ground, self-defense angle to it as well. Stay the fuck away from me and my family with your disease or I'll blow your head off.
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #713 on: September 13, 2021, 07:51:05 PM »


The mandate would be unconstitutional.

He's a tax lawyer and a youtube personality.  Not sure I'd trust his professional opinion.  Find me a constitutional lawyer.

Yeah, the guy on the right is a tax lawer and the guy on the left is a Canadian litigator of some sort.

US courts will decide what's constitutional and what's not. Not these two knuckleheads.

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #714 on: September 13, 2021, 08:00:45 PM »
There is no FDA approved vaccine.

FDA approval means biological approval.

If there was biological approval for the Pfizer vaccine, then the other versions would be pulled from the market and the EUA's revoked.

That hasn't happened.

I'm not sure where you get your information, but you're wrong:

"Reuters reported on Aug. 23 that the FDA had granted full approval to the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for use in people aged 16 and older. It would be marketed under the name Comirnaty (here).
The FDA state that Comirnaty has the same formulation as the EUA-approved (Emergency Use Authorization) Pfizer vaccine and is interchangeable (here).

“With full FDA approval, the company can officially give the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine a brand name, and that name is Comirnaty. So, people getting the vaccine can feel confident that it is both safe and effective”, Smith wrote.

The FDA told Reuters via email that one point of continuity is that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine will still be covered by the EUA for children aged 12 to 15 years old and for third doses to immunocompromised individuals aged 12 and older.
"

The confusion about the EUA still existing has to do with the last paragraph above.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #715 on: September 13, 2021, 08:03:28 PM »
Yeah, the guy on the right is a tax lawer and the guy on the left is a Canadian litigator of some sort.
Seen videos from the bloke on the left before.
He spent months being wrong about the merit of all the cases Trump and his allies were filing. It’s nice to see he’s now turned his attention to (probably) being wrong about this.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Online Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #716 on: September 13, 2021, 08:19:38 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1036521499/covid-workers-resign-new-york-hospital-stops-baby-delivery

Basically a bunch of baby healthcare staff quit instead of get a shot.
I hope they get no Unemployment and they starve! 

Fucking whiny bitches.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #717 on: September 13, 2021, 08:24:53 PM »
There is no FDA approved vaccine.

FDA approval means biological approval.

If there was biological approval for the Pfizer vaccine, then the other versions would be pulled from the market and the EUA's revoked.

That hasn't happened.

I'm not sure where you get your information, but you're wrong:

"Reuters reported on Aug. 23 that the FDA had granted full approval to the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for use in people aged 16 and older. It would be marketed under the name Comirnaty (here).
The FDA state that Comirnaty has the same formulation as the EUA-approved (Emergency Use Authorization) Pfizer vaccine and is interchangeable (here).

“With full FDA approval, the company can officially give the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine a brand name, and that name is Comirnaty. So, people getting the vaccine can feel confident that it is both safe and effective”, Smith wrote.

The FDA told Reuters via email that one point of continuity is that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine will still be covered by the EUA for children aged 12 to 15 years old and for third doses to immunocompromised individuals aged 12 and older.
"

The confusion about the EUA still existing has to do with the last paragraph above.

As usual, you're wrong.

Emphasis on the words, AS USUAL.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #718 on: September 13, 2021, 08:25:13 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/1036521499/covid-workers-resign-new-york-hospital-stops-baby-delivery

Basically a bunch of baby healthcare staff quit instead of get a shot.
I hope they get no Unemployment and they starve! 

Fucking whiny bitches.

Those hospitals are far better off without them. Unvaccinated they would not be healers but killers.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #719 on: September 13, 2021, 09:47:36 PM »
If government has the authority to do this, then they will also have authority to pull you off life support.