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Offline Orbisect-64

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In the Name of Progression & Unity
« on: July 12, 2015, 12:47:17 PM »
Hey. As I'm new here. . .

What forum do I post to if I want to get into a serious discussion [between believing members], where we can effectively cut the shills out from entering into the conversation? Let them watch if they want; but muzzle them.

(Personally I believe the shills should be permanently kicked out of the forum for their constant disruption in lowering the moral - such as is done in the military and business world. When it was said in the past to "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" kings did not employ this method by welcoming their enemies into the planning chambers—planning is to be done away from enemy eyes, or they only ruin the plan.)

I'm looking for constructive conversation and think-tanking; not debates and shillery purposed to derail forward movement.

I don't believe in what they call "the scientific method" where you debate to reach a conclusion. They don't use that method among scientists, they have conversations and toss around ideas. The "scientific" debate method is taught to the common people in their colleges, to purposely impede progression - and it's quote effective - if you hand yourself over to such deluded thinking - which I refuse to do. We need to establish a new "scientific" method wherein we cut out the shills altogether, and work to reach unified conclusions. UNITY among us, is what they hate and fear.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 01:08:21 PM by Orbisect-64 »
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

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Offline JRowe

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 01:51:12 PM »
I don't believe in what you call shills, but even so their input can be beneficial. If their addition is logical, then it is useful. If it is illogical, and they don't realize that after it's pointed out, then note the topic they're trying to steer you away from as it clearly has some importance.

Debate is vital to scientific theory: the only reason it doesn't happen more in the mainstream is because those scientists don't work independently. Flat Earthers unavoidably do, so we need to contradict one another to determine whose model works best.

I've made a forum at feresearch.boards.net for discussion of FET. Round Earthers are allowed, save for one forum ('Research') where they're prohibited from posting. It seems to be similar to what you want: of the three boards in the FE category, one is exclusively for FEers to determine which aspects of which models work, one allows only queries on given models, and no debate: the third seems to be what you object to, debate and discussion between FEers and REers, but you can steer clear of that forum if you wish.
It's a new forum so it's not too active, but that should improve. In the research board, REers are muzzled as you want.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

Thork

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2015, 01:55:24 PM »
So how do we determine a shill? Eric Dubay spots them easily. They are anyone who disagrees with him. But assuming we aren't deranged lunatics with a Messiah complex, how are we supposed to pick?

All this shill business is something that only entered FET when he made his dumb videos. Before that it was a community of people that just got on with debating earth's shape. And he does that so people listen to him and not anyone else, making him an authority so he can sell his poorly written anti-Semitic books.

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Offline Orbisect-64

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2015, 02:27:05 PM »
I'm giving this site another chance to prove that the whole site isn't controlled opposition.

I stick firmly to what I stated above. Professionals and governments don't conspire WITH their enemies. YOU are pushing that philosophy off because it benefits YOU and your people. But that is not how progress is made. Enemies will not work for your aims or benefit, they will always work to destroy you and ruin all your plans. This is a law.

I have deeper thoughts to discuss regarding real natural-science and the flat earth model, and I'm asking where I can go where the enemy is not there to throw the discussions off, derail them, and deliberately impede advancement.

THEY have been developing their science for years. And I have studied their science for years. They have proposed their ideas to us and shoved it down our throats. They did it all without any of our input. And for the flat earth to be recognized, it must progress without the input of misleading science.

I'm sure we've all seen the videos by NASA where they admit that they haven't gotten satellites outside of Earth orbit, and that they haven't solved the issues related to getting passing the Van Allen Belts. They are liars, and their science is a lie. I can conclusively prove Einstein's Relativity wrong in less than five minutes, based on the fact that three independent teams of scientists have slowed down light to 30 mph or less, proving light not to be a constant, not stable, or reliable - and therefor E=MC2 is not a "Law," which means all arguments disproving flat earth which begin with "but gravity" are lies based on a lie.

Their science is a lie founded on other lies. They had their chance, and I do not care to converse with them when working to reach the truth. You can't get truth from liars, and that is it.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 02:07:36 AM by Orbisect-64 »
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

Thork

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2015, 05:25:54 PM »
I'm giving this site another chance to prove that the whole site isn't controlled opposition.
All this controlled opposition business is betting very boring. I have known the members of this site for years and years and years. I've met some in person. I've seen some grow up and leave school and university. I've seen them get jobs, become professionals, get married, have children, suffer ill health, misfortune, triumph, misery, happiness ... and then you come along and say with no grounding whatsoever "they are all government shills" because Eric DubuyMyBook popped that ridiculous idea in your head so as he could make out he's the person who came up with the idea the earth is flat.

Think what you like. No one here has to prove anything to you. Believe whatever you want. Its not important to us.

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Offline JRowe

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2015, 06:42:18 PM »
Research requires dissent. Round Earthers may not have a working model, but they can at the very least spot possible flaws in other models. Maybe those flaws aren't valid: in which case, you'll spot that, and can say as much.
But it's simply absurd to conclude that just because someone is wrong on some issues, their input is always invalid.

Also, if you can disprove Relativity so easily, post the proof. We'd all love to see it: grand claims don't mean much unless you back them up, and you would't be the first person who's been mistaken.
People make mistakes. The problem is, FEers are attached to their own theory, we need an external perspective to spot the flaws. If you're going to brush everyone aside as a shill, however, you're being quite openly ridiculous. Not only is that incredibly unlikely, but it doesn't even begin to make sense. Genuine REers do exist. And seriously, disagreement doesn't make someone a enemy. If you're only friends with people who agree with you on every single topuc, you're not going to have any friends.
Input helps, dissent is important.

Otherwise you get the likes of IFERS, where no research takes place, and it's a whole forum dedicated to stroking the founder's ego.

If you want an honest think tank, or honest research, you need people that disagree with you: whether on FE model, or RE vs FE.
My DE model explained here.
Open to questions, but if you're curious start there rather than expecting me to explain it all from scratch every time.

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Offline Orbisect-64

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 01:34:27 AM »
I'm giving this site another chance to prove that the whole site isn't controlled opposition.
All this controlled opposition business is betting very boring. I have known the members of this site for years and years and years. I've met some in person. I've seen some grow up and leave school and university. I've seen them get jobs, become professionals, get married, have children, suffer ill health, misfortune, triumph, misery, happiness ... and then you come along and say with no grounding whatsoever "they are all government shills" because Eric DubuyMyBook popped that ridiculous idea in your head so as he could make out he's the person who came up with the idea the earth is flat.

Think what you like. No one here has to prove anything to you. Believe whatever you want. Its not important to us.

WRONG

I got that idea from my interactions here - before I saw the Dubey article. That only reaffirmed what I had experienced.

Try again.

So you know all the shills on the job, aye?
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

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Offline Orbisect-64

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2015, 01:40:59 AM »
Well if I ran a site with the aim of finding truth, I would kick out all the opposition..

MESSAGE TO SITE MANAGEMENT

I have deeper thoughts on several things. But YOU do not provide a positive atmosphere. Allowing the enemy of modern science into the planning and discovery processes is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

As a result YOU have effectively created an environment wherein people like me do not feel comfortable sharing their observances and studies.

Hence, I must conclude that those running the site, at least at the very top, are part of the opposition.

Congratulations on your success in stifling advancement.

PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2015, 05:31:07 PM »
Well if I ran a site with the aim of finding truth, I would kick out all the opposition..
Yes, religious echo chambers are great fun, but they don't actually get anything done. That's why we've been able to actually achieve something where the others have not. It's impossible to run a side that everyone will like, but I'd much rather we went for what works over what doesn't work.

I have deeper thoughts on several things. But YOU do not provide a positive atmosphere. Allowing the enemy of modern science into the planning and discovery processes is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
Substantiate your claim. You state it as an obvious truth, but it isn't one. Saying "WRONG" in all caps also doesn't count as substantiation. You claiming someone is wrong means absolutely nothing by itself.

Virtually all progress in the world has been made with the opposition widely aware of it ongoing. The concept of security by obscurity is well and truly dead, and for good reason.

Hence, I must conclude that those running the site, at least at the very top, are part of the opposition.
I don't understand you. You keep insulting the members of this community and simultaneously expecting them to listen to you. That's... not how human communication works.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 05:40:10 PM by SexWarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

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Offline markjo

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2015, 06:52:14 PM »
Hence, I must conclude that those running the site, at least at the very top, are part of the opposition.
I don't understand you. You keep insulting the members of this community and simultaneously expecting them to listen to you. That's... not how human communication works.
Quite often that's exactly how human communication works.  It just isn't how productive communication works.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Orbisect-64

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 08:50:09 AM »
I have to agree with some of the ways Eric Dubay runs his site. There's only one thing that stops me from posting over there, and that is his anti-religion protocol. As a long time dedicated study of theology for 30 years, I'm unable to make posts that don't occasionally quote God's Word - it's just the way I think. Hence I already know it would be pointless to begin an account there, only to be kicked out within the first week because it's not the Dubay-way.

Some people may not agree with him, but I admit, his site is run like a tight ship, and he is the captain—although I don't agree with some things he believes, I respect him for that.

In sites like this I see a lot of the things going on that no respected captain would permit. Captains don't permit, for instance, people to argue against the goals of the captain, against the purpose of the mission (voyage) and the task at hand—the captain views such speech as lowering moral, and so he squashes out such speech before the perpetrators can undermine the mission. Eric boots unbelievers (pirates) out rather than allow them to steer the ship and sabotage the mission. And in that clean environment his site produces a higher level of workmanship and science.

So I'm sorry if I've offended some people here by way of pointing out the disunity here—but I can't take back such statements amid such disunity. If you don't want anyone talking about disunity, you have to rid it of the site—and that doesn't mean get rid of me so you can close your eyes and ignore the disunity that was here long before I entered—if I didn't care, I would't say anything to try to improve the site and the F.E. movement.

It should be recognized that this site is run equally by those who oppose the flat earth. A ship can not effectively be steered by two opposing captains and crew - and that is unfortunately reflected here.

Again, the lies and deceptions of modern science were progressed without [our] input or help; and so they do not deserve to have a voice in the counsel against their lies—they would only seek to justify themselves. Those who apply themselves to such lies don't deserve to enter their lies into a platform made for seekers of truth. They have their own pulpit to preach from, and it is already far larger than ours, that we should allow them to have a voice on our stage too. All liars can do is speak lies, and sow their lies into truth—but this can only happen if people let them, and this is sadly what I see.

Sadly, there are so many aspects of the flat earth which have been absolutely proven. But what I see on some of these flat earth websites is a rehashing of old information, and not much advancement. Things which have been established should be viewed as such. But there's one reason alone that those things aren't viewed as established. It's not because the arguments are not solid, it's because the enemy hinders those things from being able to rest as fact.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 04:30:17 PM by Orbisect-64 »
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2015, 09:51:39 AM »
What I don't understand is why someone who doesn't think the earth is flat, takes all the time and trouble to find this forum and copy pastes their opinion in every single post that tries to discuss FE. If I'm not into giraffes, I won't go looking for a giraffe forum to specifically point out that I don't like giraffes.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 09:55:43 AM by Roelf »

Thork

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2015, 11:56:03 PM »
You don't go to a giraffe forum to feel intellectually superior to giraffes. Unfortunately, the same can not be said of forums where there are people who believe the earth is flat.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2015, 10:41:30 AM »

So I’m not a big Giraffe follower, (I feel they look down on me), but I hear there is a site that proposes they are the last survivors of Atlantis and the markings on their hides, if deciphered correctly will prove the Harry Potter series is a sacred Hindu revelation.

Curiosity and my natural trolling instincts draw me to the site like that T.Rex to the tethered goat, and I find a strange mix of (the usual) conspiracies, plus pseudo-science (they betrayed Atlantis as punishment they are only allowed 30 minutes sleep), bizarre Christian interpretation (as some giraffe vocals are below the range of human hearing, they are communing with God) and most importantly, vigorous debate.

 Starved as I am of real human contact, I love this and interact, and find an eclectic bunch of outright mental cases & misfits but also some nice if misguided human beings, I begin to feel for them, even get protective when other trolls are mean, and now the Camelopardis Society is for a while a part of my life.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Thork

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2015, 02:52:34 AM »
Starved as I am of real human contact
Only you can fix this. No one is going to come and save you. Join a club, meet people, sign up to something you'd never do in a million years. You are a tribal pack type animal. No man is an island and all that. It is important for your own mental health, and surrounding yourself with others makes your life better. I've tried both. As smart as I think I am, I can't rationalise and overcome what it is to be human. And being human is about connection.

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2015, 01:55:34 PM »
You don't go to a giraffe forum to feel intellectually superior to giraffes. Unfortunately, the same can not be said of forums where there are people who believe the earth is flat.

Analogy doesn't work. You're not a giraffe.  :)

Round Earthers argue intellectually with Flat Earthers in a Flat-Earth centered forum, and in some cases, there may be a sense of intellectual superiority.

Going into a giraffe forum with the same sense, one would not be intellectually superior to the giraffes themselves- but to the people in said forum whose opinions differ from their own. Just like here.

Welcome to the internet.
 

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2015, 08:43:31 PM »
Starved as I am of real human contact
Only you can fix this. No one is going to come and save you. Join a club, meet people, sign up to something you'd never do in a million years. You are a tribal pack type animal. No man is an island and all that. It is important for your own mental health, and surrounding yourself with others makes your life better. I've tried both. As smart as I think I am, I can't rationalise and overcome what it is to be human. And being human is about connection.

Irony!
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 11:11:56 PM »
I have to agree with some of the ways Eric Dubay runs his site. There's only one thing that stops me from posting over there, and that is his anti-religion protocol. As a long time dedicated study of theology for 30 years, I'm unable to make posts that don't occasionally quote God's Word - it's just the way I think. Hence I already know it would be pointless to begin an account there, only to be kicked out within the first week because it's not the Dubay-way.

You may want to do some research. ED quotes scripture quite often. He is all over the web taking opposite sides with different names. He is a hypocrite. All he is trying to do is make money as a 'alternative news writer', like his heroes. I seriously doubt he believes in FET.

Re: In the Name of Progression & Unity
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 07:38:36 AM »
He is all over the web taking opposite sides with different names.

Such as?