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Messages - Tom Bishop

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121
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 21, 2023, 03:16:03 AM »
There are several elements there that do suggest an actual scheme.

1. The phrase "This has to stop", reportedly in relation to Trump

2. A suggestion to scheme

3. The suggestion to scheme is immediately followed by phrase "we must do our patriotic duty again"

Honk wants us to believe that they were not suggesting an actual scheme against an elected official and were merely making plans to hang out.

See item 3. It would be incredibly odd to tell friends that it was our "patriotic duty" to hang out. This does not make sense at all under the honk narrative.

Like I said, I'm sure that they did in fact discuss Carroll coming forward with her story with the goal of politically hurting Trump. I'm just saying that the fact that one of them used the word "scheme" does not indicate that what they were up to was in fact a criminal or fraudulent scheme.

You are supposed to be arguing why it's not a red flag, not merely how you can stretch your imagination to see if you can make it work with the rape narrative with creative interpretations.

We have two people who came up with a premeditated plan to hurt Trump politically because they didn't like his politics. The friend is also an alibi who verified that she was told about the rape at the time it happened.

Jean Carroll did not scream when it happened. She did not tell the police. She did not write about it in her ongoing diary that she was keeping. The first we hear she started speaking about it is in a book she wrote shortly after plotting with her friend on a scheme to get Trump.

A jury, too, also assessed this and rejected the claim that she was raped.

All of this exists as one red flag after another, and is counter to the idea that she was raped. In the end we are supposed to believe that in a 1996 department store a 50 year old billionaire named Donald Trump, who could and did get models much younger than himself, could not resist forcing himself upon a 52 year old liberal sex advice columnist named E. Jean Carroll.  ::)

122
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 20, 2023, 02:51:06 PM »
There are several elements there that do suggest an actual scheme.

1. The phrase "This has to stop", reportedly in relation to Trump

2. A suggestion to scheme

3. The suggestion to scheme is immediately followed by phrase "we must do our patriotic duty again"

Honk wants us to believe that they were not suggesting an actual scheme against an elected official and were merely making plans to hang out.

See item 3. It would be incredibly odd to tell friends that it was our "patriotic duty" to hang out. This does not make sense at all under the honk narrative.

123
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Free Speech Warrior Elon Musk
« on: November 20, 2023, 06:20:39 AM »
Without X Argentina's new president would probably have been heavily demoted by Twitter's previous owners and we would never have been blessed with his wonderful words of wisdom.


124
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 19, 2023, 06:18:42 PM »
Quote from: honk
My own more charitable interpretation of this - although of course I can't prove it - is that Carroll may have been doubting herself or her recollection in the aftermath of what happened (as rape victims often do), but when Trump denied the entire incident, it helped push her into realizing that what Trump had done was definitely wrong and that was why he was denying everything.

Considering that the explanation you came up with here involves her not being raped, I don't see any further need to argue the point. This does cast doubt on the rape story, and exists as a red flag.

Indeed, there were many red flags in this case. Another one is the scheme email, in which prior to the rape accusation Jean Carroll's friend Carol Martin discussed stopping Trump with her in an unspecified "scheme".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-lawyers-e-jean-carroll-174843340.html

    While asking about how Carroll developed her book, which marked the first time she made that startling accusation, Trump’s lead defense attorney pointed out an exchange she had with a close friend, the fellow journalist Carol Martin.

    “This has to stop,” Martin suggested in a Sept. 23, 2017 email about Trump. “As soon as we’re both well enough to scheme, we must do our patriotic duty again.”

    “TOTALLY!!! I have something special for you when we meet,” Carroll responded.

    Two weeks later, Carroll started a cross-country road trip to gather material for an upcoming book in 2019 about nasty men—one that ultimately included a bombshell account of Trump allegedly raping Carroll in the dressing room of Bergdorf Goodman.

Coincidentally Carol Martin also happened to be Jean Carroll's alibi she allegedly confided in at the time of the event, who corroborated the story in court that she was raped by Donald Trump.

Of course, in your mind these are not red flags at all, and all of this exists as one explainable coincidence after another.

125
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 18, 2023, 08:41:02 PM »
It's not a strange move. Next year is an election year. It helps them to have Trump under indictments and tied up in these cases.

No, these indictments aren't really helping Democrats politically. They're endearing Trump to his fans even more, adding fuel to his "They're out to get me" narrative, giving him a new topic to rant about at his rallies, and most importantly of all, aren't dissuading anyone from supporting him at all. You commented on this yourself a few months ago. If the goal is to hurt Trump politically, it's clearly not working, there's no indication that it's suddenly going to start working, and yet they keep pushing forward with these prosecutions anyway.

The people voting in 2024 will not be 100% composed of Trump fans.

Quote from: honk
Quote from: Tom Bishop
Rape victims do not say that they will consider dropping charges if their rapist agrees that the sex was consensual. There are a series of red flags here, of which you say it was 'possible' she was still raped. The fact is that the jury rejected her claim of rape and said that she was not raped.

Where did you see that she'd consider dropping charges if Trump agreed that the sex was consensual? I'm not seeing that anywhere, and it doesn't even make sense. Her entire claim was that what happened wasn't consensual, so how from her perspective could Trump be agreeing that it was consensual? I have read that Carroll said she expected Trump to claim that what happened was consensual, and was surprised when he flatly denied the entire incident, but that's obviously not the same thing.

See the statements of this MSNBC legal analyst covering the case. Carrol said that if Trump had said the sex was consensual she would have considered not suing him.



Quote from: honk
As to your other points, no, those aren't red flags, they're just your arbitrary, unsupported assertions of what is or isn't normal or suspicious. Everyone responds to sexual assault differently, and there's no right or wrong way to do it. Like I said before, a determined skeptic can twist any element of a victim's story to sound suspicious. She went out with friends after the alleged rape? You'd think she'd be shaken up and in no mood for socializing, how suspicious! She didn't go out with friends after the alleged rape? Imagine a rape victim not wanting to be supported by her friends, how suspicious!

Yeah, no. Rape victims don't consider dropping charges if the rapist says that the rape was consensual.

Quote from: honk
I specifically avoided using the term "rape" so that we could avoid the tedious "ehrm actually they said it wasn't rape" nitpick, but I guess a minor detail like me not needing to be corrected isn't enough to stop you from correcting me.

The alleged victim said that she was raped. So the fact that the court said that she was not raped is not a minor detail.

Quote from: honk
They did not retire thinking that it was up to them to award Carroll money because Trump called her ugly, nor for any other broad definition of "sexual abuse" that didn't actually correspond to what allegedly happened on the day in question.

They retired thinking that it was a strange verdict because the primary claim of rape was rejected -

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65566501

    Mr Trump's lawyer Joe Tacopina told reporters outside the courtroom that it was "a strange verdict".

    "They rejected her rape claim and she always claimed this was a rape case, so it's a little perplexing," he said.

The media, in fact, has been going on for weeks about how Cohen was supposed to be the prosecution's "star witness" -
I'll leave Cohen's star witness status to be decided by a court of law rather than the court of public opinion.

Please try to understand that the judge already determined that there was enough evidence to find Trump guilty of fraud even before Cohen took the stand.

That's... not how court cases work. Judges don't judge defendants before the case is over.

If he did make such comments, it will only be used as fodder for an appeal. The judge in that case has already been slapped by an appeals court regarding his actions in this case: New York appeals court judge lifts gag order in Trump civil fraud case

126
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 15, 2023, 04:32:58 AM »
Why distance yourself from Cohen's testimony?

He's apparently the best you have in that case. If over the past weeks we had been discussing Cohen's upcoming testimony honk would have doubled and trippled and quadrupled down in his assertions that the prosecution wouldn't bring someone to the stand unless it was devastating for Trump.

The media, in fact, has been going on for weeks about how Cohen was supposed to be the prosecution's "star witness" -

https://abcnews.go.com/US/former-fixer-now-star-witness-michael-cohen-face/story?id=104221023



https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-trial-net-worth-new-york-067501b1d742d4dccba2521ac3262fdb



https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/05/nyregion/trump-michael-cohen-lawsuit-dropped.html



https://fortune.com/2023/10/18/trump-returns-new-york-civil-fraud-trial-star-witness-michael-cohen/



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-fraud-lawsuit_n_652e5469e4b0da897ab53696


127
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 15, 2023, 01:33:11 AM »
There isn't any reason to believe that they have substantial evidence against Trump. This is like the boy who cried wolf story. Trump was supposed to be in jail because there was all of this evidence that he was a russian spy years ago. It turned out that the evidence was pretty shoddy and politically motivated. Since then every other week it has been some other claim and some other alleged crime, which always comes with the coincidental far-left DA or far-left figure pushing for it, with recurring predictions from the left that a mountain of evidence has been collected against Trump and he is for sure going to jail this time.

How many times has Trump been indited?  Are you forgetting that he has already been found guilty of fraud in a civil trial?  The judge even said that there was enough evidence to fill the courtroom.
Engoron rejected the motion absolutely, contradicting the Trump team’s claim that Cohen was the key witness. “There’s enough evidence in this case to fill this courtroom,” he remarked.

Perhaps you have a different definition of evidence than the court system.

Engoron is one of the leftist loonies, and the case will go nowhere and any result will survive no appeal. Look at the full paragraph of what you quoted for a demonstration of the type of evidence you are talking about:

Quote
Later, Trump turned on the histrionics again, storming out of the courtroom after the judge refused to dismiss the case based on seemingly inconsistent testimony by Cohen over whether his former boss asked him to inflate financial statements. “I’m leaving,” Trump exclaimed and headed out the large doors of the courtroom. Engoron rejected the motion absolutely, contradicting the Trump team’s claim that Cohen was the key witness. “There’s enough evidence in this case to fill this courtroom,” he remarked. (As CNN’s Jeremy Herb and Lauren del Valle noted in a dispatch from the courtroom, Cohen later clarified that Trump didn’t ask him directly but he implied it by speaking like a “mob boss.”)

Essentially "Trump didn't ask anyone to inflate financial statements directly, but he implied it by speaking like a mob boss!"

Do you sincerely and honestly believe that this type of evidence is going to go anywhere?

I can only roll my eyes when you guys continually fall for this media hype.  ::)

128
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 14, 2023, 05:28:04 PM »
There isn't any reason to believe that they have substantial evidence against Trump. This is like the boy who cried wolf story. Trump was supposed to be in jail because there was all of this evidence that he was a russian spy years ago. It turned out that the evidence was pretty shoddy and politically motivated. Since then every other week it has been some other claim and some other alleged crime, which always comes with the coincidental far-left DA or far-left figure pushing for it, with recurring predictions from the left that a mountain of evidence has been collected against Trump and he is for sure going to jail this time.

Either Trump is one of the most prolific criminals ever and always evades justice for his many crimes, or this is an ongoing witch hunt with no real substance.

Spoiler: No one has flipped on Trump. No one will say anything directly accusatory or anything wildly surprising against Trump.

129
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 13, 2023, 01:43:10 PM »
As it is, she has only agreed to testify truthfully. Everything else is conjecture.
Tom, you keep focusing on the "what" of the deal (the truthful testimony).  Aren't you the least bit interested in the "why" of the deal?  As in, if she agreed that there was enough evidence to convict her for the original charges, then why would the prosecutors give here such a sweetheart deal instead of going to trial and conviction?

BTW, a plea deal still counts as a conviction.

There are plenty of alternative theories to the one you propose - https://technofog.substack.com/p/prediction-sidney-powell-wont-be

You are trying to tell us what other people are thinking, who you do not know.

130
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 12, 2023, 09:36:03 PM »
If it was an agreement to flip on trump you might have something. However, it is not. It an agreement to truthfully testify

I've explained repeatedly why this is a pedantic quibble. We're never going to get anywhere if you keep returning to arguments that have already been addressed as soon as we're on a new subject.

Quote from: honk
which could have been given out of a number of reasons, such as desperation.

That's possible, sure. It doesn't seem very likely to me, as even if we assume that the prosecution is politically motivated, launching a massive, high-profile case and indicting a former president with a weak hand would be a very strange move. They could just as easily have not indicted Trump.

It's not a strange move. Next year is an election year. It helps them to have Trump under indictments and tied up in these cases. Your entire logic here is to assume a series of things based on numerous personal assumptions of what you believe they would or wouldn't do.

As it is, she has only agreed to testify truthfully. Everything else is conjecture.

Quote from: honk
Quote
This was a ridiculous claim of rape in a dressing room which the victim admits to not have screamed during the event, did not contact police afterwards, continued to shop at the store, and who then admits to becoming a 'massive' Apprentice fan in the proceeding years. A victim who says that she would have considered dropping the claim if Trump had admitted it was consensual. Honk believes that this is totally normal for a rape claim and that we should overlook obvious contradictions.

None of these details are "contradictions," they're just things that you're arbitrarily declaring to be abnormal and presumably therefore indications of dishonesty. Who says that rape victims can't or don't behave like this?

Rape victims do not say that they will consider dropping charges if their rapist agrees that the sex was consensual. There are a series of red flags here, of which you say it was 'possible' she was still raped. The fact is that the jury rejected her claim of rape and said that she was not raped.

Quote from: honk
Quote
Oddly, we saw from the jury conviction questionnaire that the conviction was heavily focused on defamation comments against the victim in recent years, and not focused on the actual rape allegation.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The jury found Trump liable for both the incident and the defamation and awarded Carroll millions for both. How was their ruling "heavily focused" one way or the other?

Actually the jury consensus in that link is that she wasn't raped, but she was 'sexually abused' in some manner. No money was awarded for that. The money that was awarded was for the other items in the sheet dealing with defamation. Read that document.

Quote from: honk
Quote
There was one box which the jury checked which asks if the victim 'sexually abused', which could mean sexual comments about her looks in recent years like the other questions about recent events and not the rape, or maybe the jury believes that something else occurred.

No, it couldn't. This is the silliest argument you've made yet. Trump was being sued for a specific alleged incident, not for calling Carroll ugly. Courts are very clear with juries about what exactly it is that they're sitting in judgment of, and if they weren't in this case, Trump's lawyers would have gotten a mistrial in a heartbeat.

The case is still in appeal. Your claim that they would have gotten a mistrial is premature.

Quote from: honk
Quote
The jury specifically voted not to convict that the rape occurred, and voted no on that. They also left a box untouched which said "Did Mr. Trump forcibly touch Ms. Carroll". Somehow the position given is that the victim was sexually abused but there is not a position that the victim was forcibly touched, as if it was possible to be sexually abused without being forcibly touched, providing insight to their idea of 'sexual abuse'.

The document very clearly says to skip the question about forcible touching if they answered yes to sexual abuse, because it's redundant. These are meant as degrees of severity for what Trump allegedly could have done, with forcible touching being the least severe and rape being the most. Selecting a more severe option doesn't automatically exonerate him of the elements involved in the less severe options. Obviously you can't sexually abuse someone without forcibly touching them.

Sexual abuse in law does not mean forced touching:

https://www.justia.com/injury/sexual-abuse/

Quote
Sexual Abuse Law

Sexual abuse refers to any type of illegal or coerced sexual conduct against another individual. A variety of different offenses fall into this category, which is not limited to physical contact alone. Instead, sexual abuse includes acts of sexual harassment, rape, indecent exposure, forcing another individual to view or participate in pornography, and contributing in any way to the commercial sexual exploitation of children.

131
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 07, 2023, 09:31:35 AM »
Tom, are you familiar with subtext?  Of course the plea agreement doesn't explicitly say that she must flip on Trump.  However, one can reasonably infer from the way that plea agreements work in general that she would not have been offered such a sweet plea agreement if she wasn't expected to flip.

One can also reasonably infer from her continuous attacks on the prosecutor that she did not flip. If the prosecution calls someone to testify in a court hearing to testify negatively against a defendant, and they do so, their other statements that they were being extorted by the prosecutor could risk the case. Under your imaginings here Sydney Powell would be risking that her plea agreement is revoked.

There is no actual agreement for her to testify negatively against Trump. How are they supposed to enforce the agreement you think they made if there is no agreement to do something?

All of this exists in your imagination that there is super strong case against Trump, that immense evidence is being collected in secret (like you always tell me in every Trump controversy it is), and that in this case people are flipping like crazy in a mad rush of evidence against Trump. The reality is most likely that the claims against Trump are very weak, and they are lashing out and doing anything in their effort of political prosecution like a flopping fish gasping for air, which is why the leftist effort to imprison Trump has fallen apart apart every time over the years.

Again, all of this evidence is currently in your imagination only, for which you "reasonably assume".

What exactly has fallen apart?  He already lost one E. Jean Carrol case and is looking at another one in a few months. He has already been found guilty of fraud in a civil trial in New York, so that's not a good sign.  Plus there are 91 well detailed felony charges that have been filed.  Oh, and a number of co-defendants are taking sweet plea deals that require them to provide "truthful testimony" in future trials against Trump.  So yes, I think that it's pretty safe to say that the walls are closing in.

Your biggest win here is apparently something which has yet to finalize the appeal process, did not result in a rape conviction, and will not result in prison time for Trump.

This was a ridiculous claim of rape in a dressing room which the victim admits to not have screamed during the event, did not contact police afterwards, continued to shop at the store, and who then admits to becoming a 'massive' Apprentice fan in the proceeding years. A victim who says that she would have considered dropping the claim if Trump had admitted it was consensual. Honk believes that this is totally normal for a rape claim and that we should overlook obvious contradictions.

The arguments on this forum during that event was that it is possible that Trump raped her, even though there is a litany of evidence against it because "sometimes" people don't report rapes, and "sometimes" they become huge fans of their rapist, and "sometimes" consider dropping charges if the defendant agrees that the sex was consensual.

Incredibly weak evidence, like all the other claims against Trump.

Oddly, we saw from the jury conviction questionnaire that the conviction was heavily focused on defamation comments against the victim in recent years, and not focused on the actual rape allegation. There was one box which the jury checked which asks if the victim 'sexually abused', which could mean sexual comments about her looks in recent years like the other questions about recent events and not the rape, or maybe the jury believes that something else occurred. The jury specifically voted not to convict that the rape occurred, and voted no on that. They also left a box untouched which said "Did Mr. Trump forcibly touch Ms. Carroll". Somehow the position given is that the victim was sexually abused but there is not a position that the victim was forcibly touched, as if it was possible to be sexually abused without being forcibly touched, providing insight to their idea of 'sexual abuse'.

Do you guys gain an ounce of humility when all this hard evidence against Trump, which you always assume to exist in abundance before you have the facts, turns out to be garbage? This is all obviously just a fantasy wish of yours to 'get trump' more than anything. How could you possibly know that Trump has committed all of these criminal acts you have alleged over the years if you were not there? You do not know, which is why this is a fantasy.

132
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 07, 2023, 01:23:56 AM »
If it was an agreement to flip on trump you might have something. However, it is not. It an agreement to truthfully testify, which could have been given out of a number of reasons, such as desperation.

According to the left the walls have been closing in on Trump for 9 years now, for a wide range of crimes which are totally provable in court but somehow falls apart. Surely, you have him now.  ::)

133
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 03, 2023, 04:36:57 AM »
Maybe she is intending to testify. I still don't see anything substantial suggesting that she has flipped on Trump, however. The agreement is for her to testify truthfully. There could be a number of reasons that agreement was given. Maybe they initially overcharged her and gave her this standard truth agreement as a hail mary. Sidney Powell is certainly not acting like she flipped on Trump, judging by her continuous attacks on the prosecutors after this agreement -

https://www.businessinsider.com/sidney-powell-doubt-election-results-attack-prosecutors-after-guilty-plea-2023-10

"Sidney Powell pushes claims that 2020 election was rigged and prosecutors 'extorted' her after she pleaded guilty to election interference"

...

"On her social-media accounts, Powell has continued to push claims that the 2020 election was rigged and that prosecutors in Georgia who brought the criminal case against her were politically motivated."

...

"Powell's newsletter promoted a claim that Willis 'extorted' her guilty plea"

...

"Since her guilty plea, the newsletters have urged her followers to "hold fast." They told supporters to read and share articles and YouTube videos that argue her guilty plea was 'extorted' and amounted to a blow to Willis, the Fulton County district attorney."

...

"Powell's followers were directed to the same Federalist article again in her Monday newsletter. It also cited an Epoch Times article quoting Trump's attorney Steve Sadow, who said Powell pleaded guilty only because of 'pressure' from Willis."

...

"Ronald Carlson, a professor at the University of Georgia School of Law, told Insider that Powell's comments were unusual for a cooperating witness who was likely to be asked to testify on behalf of the prosecution at a trial.

'Usually, after a guilty plea, the defendants do not want to rock the boat,' Carlson said."


134
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: November 02, 2023, 10:37:55 PM »
Sydney Powell signed an agreement to testify truthfully. That is all. Secret behind-the-scenes deals that she flipped on Trump is purely in your imagination based on what you are assuming happened between Powell and the prosecutor. A close associate of Sydney Powell insists that she has not "flipped":

https://thenationalpulse.com/2023/10/26/read-sidney-powell-didnt-flip-on-trump-or-maga/


135
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 31, 2023, 03:11:45 AM »
Nobody here claimed that prosecutors directly represent the victims of crimes. ???

People did argue here that we should just assume what a prosecutor is and what a prosecutor does based on "common sense".

In the example given it shows that everyone is wrong about who a prosecutor represents:

    "If you stop a person on the street and ask who brings charges against defendants in victim related cases, almost everyone will say the victim."

    "Prosecutors represent the State of Indiana, and only they can bring charges, not victims. In all reality, once a crime has been reported, the victim loses any control over whether or not charges get brought or not and if they get dismissed. People are often shocked by this fact."

If most people are so shocked and surprised at who prosecutors really represent and how they function, how is it a valid argument to tell me that you are right about prosecutors based on (your) common sense and that all references which oppose your narrative are wrong, including statements by lawyers, attorneys associations, and academic papers?

136
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 28, 2023, 07:58:30 PM »
Prosecutors don't directly represent the victim. They represent society and must treat cases impartially in the interest of justice, as stated in the above quotes. It sounds like you guys would be the low-knowledge people off the street in this example who are shocked when they learn the truth about how it works:

https://banksbrower.com/2022/10/12/the-victim-didnt-want-to-press-charges-so-why-am-i-charged/

Quote
The Victim Didn’t Want to Press Charges, So Why am I Charged?

Almost every single day our office receives calls from people charged with crimes involving victims on the other side. Just as often, the accused will say to us, “the victim doesn’t want me charged, but I got arrested and charged anyways, why?” Or, “the victim asked the prosecutor to dismiss the charges, but the prosecutor won’t, why?” The simple and straightforward answer is one that people don’t want to hear and often don’t understand.

If you stop a person on the street and ask who brings charges against defendants in victim related cases, almost everyone will say the victim. You’ll hear things like “the victim decided to bring charges” or “I decided to bring charges against my husband,” etc. You even heard this in the Will Smith – Chris Rock slapping scandal. Oddly, the police said, despite this crime being captured on live-national television and is forever enshrined on YouTube with over 100 million views, that Chris Rock decided he didn’t want to press charges, so no charges were brought. No wonder why people are confused. Why is that odd you might ask? Because that isn’t how the legal system works. Forgive the pun, but that was a copout by the police and prosecutor’s office in that case. But why?

Simply put, victims don’t bring charges. Prosecutors do. Prosecutors represent the State of Indiana, and only they can bring charges, not victims. In all reality, once a crime has been reported, the victim loses any control over whether or not charges get brought or not and if they get dismissed. People are often shocked by this fact.

137
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 28, 2023, 02:39:29 AM »
You should probably disclaim those statements as "Based on my many years of reading Batman comic books... this is insane" or perhaps "Based on my avid movie and media consumption... this is insanity" because this is all you are basically referencing.

138
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 28, 2023, 12:22:03 AM »
Quote from: honk
We have an adversarial legal system, and the prosecution is absolutely, 100% in opposition to the defendant in any given criminal trial.

This is based on your movie and media knowledge though. If you look at information resources on what a prosecutor is and their role, you learn the truth.


What is the role of the prosecutor?
Evans LawTV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wucWQd1eMUc

@00:00
in Colorado and criminal law the role of
the prosecutor is to prosecute the cases
it means that they have the job not to
represent the victims that's an
important distinction
they don't personally represent victims
they represent the people of the state
of Colorado so they're representing the
dignity and reputation and welfare of
all of the people of the state of
Colorado they're supposed to come at the
cases unbiased they're supposed to come
at the case is neutral and objective and
analyze the cases rationally and fairly

pleaing
the cases equally from defendant to
defendant trying the cases where no plea
agreement can be reached it's their job
to make sure that on the prosecution
side that the case has proved beyond the
reasonable doubt on each and every
element against any defendant charged
you


Role of Public prosecutor || Who is public prosecutor || public prosecute
Student facts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gywnZE2V3Qo

@0:49

the public prosecutor is required to
play an impartial and neutral role
and
help in the prosecution of all persons
who have been charged by the
police

@1:14
The public prosecutor holds
an important place and a number of code
judgments have called him a minister of
justice.
He is expected to place before
the court all evidence in his possession
whether in favor of or against the
accused and to leave it to the court to
decide on the basis of all such evidence
whether the accused had or had not
committed the offence with which he
stood charged


To Seek Justice: Defining the Power of the Prosecutor
The Federalist Society

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pLAcnFhONY

@00:04
The prosecutor's job is not to convict people, or
to put them in jail. It's to do justice.


@3:00
Prosecutors got one duty, and one duty only.
Seek justice.

139
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 27, 2023, 08:39:46 PM »
Did you read any of the cherry picked quotes which I am deliberately misrepresenting or wilfully misunderstanding?
Fixed your post.

Where is your evidence that it is being misrepresented? The only evidence you have provided is your own understanding from popular culture on what a prosecutor is.

There's also common sense though, like understanding that the prosecutor has no motive to offer a deal unless the defendant is offering something useful to the prosecution. But you probably understand that and are just obfuscating ignorance in the service of your chosen narrative so of course common sense means nothing as far as you're concerned.

Not sure how common sense differentiates this. AATW's common sense is based on seeing some movies which depicted a prosecutor so of course he knows what a prosecutor does.

140
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 27, 2023, 05:56:49 PM »
Did you read any of the cherry picked quotes which I am deliberately misrepresenting or wilfully misunderstanding?
Fixed your post.

Where is your evidence that it is being misrepresented? The only evidence you have provided is your own understanding from popular culture on what a prosecutor is.

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