41

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Satellites

« on: November 17, 2017, 05:47:38 AM »

1. Possible, yes.  Practical, no.  Why do you think air ships have never become a practical form of transport ?
2. You can’t cite a single photo on Reddit.com as evidence when you poo-poo timeanddate.com
3. The question was why does every country participate in the charade.  China for example ?  They aren’t involved in the Cold War. 

42

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Conspiracy - why NASA?

« on: November 17, 2017, 05:39:15 AM »

Just how many organisations are involved in the conspiracy ?
All the space agencies over the globe, both government and private
All the cartographic industry
Every pilot
Every mariner
Every astronomer
All of the satellite industry
A fair number of Google employees
All the industries that make and use GPS
The balloon satellite launchers (and nobody has every spotted a football field sized balloon being launched !)
All of the web sites that predict sun rise and sun set, eclipse of the sun and moon, alignment of the planets etc.
I’m sure that there are dozens more that I’ve missed, and not one single person has ever spilt the beans !  Not a single photo of the plane, nor of the edge.

43

Flat Earth Theory / Re: An experiment I want every single one of you to explain

« on: November 17, 2017, 05:14:44 AM »

Read Earth Not a Globe for diagrams of perspective and for further information.

Looked there, the explanation is flawed.  E.g.  it refers to a row of lamp posts diminishing as they get further away.  True, but on a plane they get closer and closer to the horizon, but never actually touch it.  The sun, on the other hand, clearly drops below the horizon. 
If you do some simple trigonometry, you could work out the lowest angle the sun gets to.

44

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Satellites

« on: November 17, 2017, 05:04:21 AM »

Yeah, giant hydrogen balloons really takes the biscuit. As people have already said, the position of satellites is very precise, and balloons get blown by the winds.  Especially really big balloons.

I will suggest looking up how much wind there is at the edge of the atmosphere.

You’d see the balloons above the satellites, especially big satellites like the ISS.  Hydrogen balloons have a limited life.  The hydrogen weeps through the membrane (think how quickly a helium party balloon goes flat) so they have a limited life span.  Some satellites have been up there for well over 10 years.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/6y1qnu/this_1985_balloononastick_that_has_never_lost_its/

Top secret security clearance on a need to know basis is the sort of phrase a 10 year old comes out with.
You can go and watch satellite launches. You can go and see these huge, expensive rockets being launched yourself.  Why would anybody put on a ridiculously expensive stage show, then go and dangle their satellite off a balloon.

Because they need to fake the concept of space travel in order to achieve military dominance. Did you think NASA was started at the birth of the Cold War to conduct innocent science?

1. It doesn’t matter how much wind there is up there, it’s getting them to the right place in the first place.  Wind on the way up !

2. Reddit.com ?  Not exactly a reliable source of evidence

3. Of course NASA was a key player during the space race which was part of the Cold War.  However, why every country (with space technology) participate in this charade ?  The Cold War is over !

45

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How can the sun cast light in a circle when it covers half the earth?

« on: November 17, 2017, 04:32:23 AM »

Hmmm.  The original point of the discussion seems to be whether timeanddate.org is reliable.  Well, the same info has been published in the Nautical Almanac and numerous other sources for years and years, and is used by navigators on a daily basis.  Call this common knowledge, empirical evidence, or what you like.  I’ve seen it used.
Can Tom give us any evidence of a recorded inaccuracy in the sun rise and sun set time predictions.  Just one will do.

46

Flat Earth Theory / Re: An experiment I want every single one of you to explain

« on: November 17, 2017, 04:03:21 AM »

Just to recap on some unanswered questions. 
We’re waiting for a diagram showing how perspective changes with height.
Proof the the horizon is always at eye level.
Why we have a sunset when the sun radiates in all directions
Why the sun sets below the horizon when it never drops below the plane.

Over to you Tom ?

47

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Satellites

« on: November 17, 2017, 03:48:50 AM »

Yeah, giant hydrogen balloons really takes the biscuit. As people have already said, the position of satellites is very precise, and balloons get blown by the winds.  Especially really big balloons. You’d see the balloons above the satellites, especially big satellites like the ISS.  Hydrogen balloons have a limited life.  The hydrogen weeps through the membrane (think how quickly a helium party balloon goes flat) so they have a limited life span.  Some satellites have been up there for well over 10 years.
Top secret security clearance on a need to know basis is the sort of phrase a 10 year old comes out with.
You can go and watch satellite launches. You can go and see these huge, expensive rockets being launched yourself.  Why would anybody put on a ridiculously expensive stage show, then go and dangle their satellite off a balloon.

48

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the planets

« on: November 17, 2017, 12:10:05 AM »

Maybe you will have more luck on the 'other' flat earth forum. This one banned a few flat earth gurus who would have been able to answer your questions. Look for a member named İntikam. That guy is a legend  Both sites are run by controlled opposition though although I would say the genuine believers have gravitated over the other one. Just watch as I get warned or banned for speaking the truth.

As to my answer to your question, given we know so little about the universe and the nature of well anything, I have a more agnostic approach.

For example, there are theories (and these all came from well known scientific geeks) that our universe could be a holographic projection and that the '3 spatial dimensions' is merely a matter of perspective.

Or that it could be 10 spatial dimensions. We only occupy 3 so we cant fathom or comprehend anything greater anymore than a 2D flatlander could comprehend or view our 3D world. Those 'virtual' particles that seemingly 'pop' in and out of existence in defiance of the laws of physics? Well they may be occupying other spatial dimensions we aren't a part of and we only see flashes on their existence as they move around.

The shape of everything is also dependant on the speed you are travelling. If you were to hitch a ride on a photon, the start and finish lines of the ends of the universe would be on top of each other. Pretty flat

We could be in a matrix. Therefore our universe is rendered into nothing more than ones and zeros. Who's to say the programmers couldn't make an exception for what the shape of this planet is?

We could be a simulated universe. If we end up with the technology to create simulations so realistic that we could create a universe of people that believe everything is real, there is an infinitesimal chance that our universe is the 'real' one. There could be an infinite amount of simulated universe. Simulations within simulations for infinity. We may be in one of those. When mankind reaches 'the singularity', there is no limit to our technological potential.

Point is, I prefer not to settle on an answer without absolute proof. Unfortunately to satisfy me, that requires a complete understanding of the universe. An unlikely feat in my lifetime and perhaps beyond the reach of any human, ever.

Regarding do we live in a simulation, there was a podcast by bbc radio 4 about this. The program is called The Infinite Monkey Cage. The episode was in the last series I think. Well worth a listen.

49

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Satellites

« on: November 16, 2017, 01:53:13 PM »

I thought that was somebody’s talking to Gary !!!

So Gary, where’s your proof. Where’s the photos, where’s your calculations, otherwise I too am going have to cry Bullshit as well.

50

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Disproofs - a summary of progress so far.

« on: November 16, 2017, 01:08:54 PM »

And whatnot. I’m sure that’s vitality significant

51

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Satellites

« on: November 16, 2017, 01:04:53 PM »

This thread made me join. haha.

Good question OP. I'm a communications tech. I work for a top 10 defense contractor that manufactures satellites and launches them from the Space Coast. Basically, the satellite acts as a repeater. The transmission comes from our earth stations, include voice and data, and transmitted to the satellite which then streams the data (repeats) back towards earth, where a properly pointed dish can receive. The dishes typically are able to send/receive data and the communication to/from the satellite and earth station is two-way, bi-directional.

I have installed commercial dishes for end users (gov't, military, gas and oil rigs, ships). I assure you that they work when pointed correctly at the sky, and don't work if they're just inches off. There's an entire procedure involved in pointing and setting a dish as well as math helps on getting the angles correct. Once linked up, I can send test messages to a Network Ops Center where a tech verifies my data and sends me out a test reply which I also verify.

I also work with microwave (ground to ground stations), fiber, central office, network, PSPC radio, backbone, etc. I'm a tech, not an engineer, so my 25 years of experience involves the installation and maintenance of comm equipment. My work involves correctly pointing, provisioning, and testing large scale  wireless communication devices.

FE'rs need to work this info into their model somehow, because satellites exist and are in use all over our flat earth. There's no need to be afraid to admit that they are real.

Satellites are real and you do not have the need to know basis of the truth behind satellites.  Yes your company may manufacture the satellites and think they are being "launched" into orbit but that is not really true.  They are not in space but are typically kept in the sky by very large hydrogen balloons.  They range in elevation between 40,000 to 80,000 feet in the air. 

Here is one of the stations where balloon launches occur.  Look at the bottom for schedule of past launches.  http://stratocat.com.ar/bases/37e.htm

Please note the MIR launches which are pieces of the ISS which is also on a balloon.

A couple of little question, how big is the balloon that supports the 450 tons of the ISS, how does being suspended below a balloon enable it to keep a precise and predictable track across the sky, and can you direct me to which of the balloon launches in your linked list, shows the ISS launch or any launch with that payload?

Assertions are one thing, evidence is needed to back up those assertions.

Roger

Football field size.  They are lifted with assistance of cranes

And your proof is ?

52

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Proof from airplanes?

« on: November 16, 2017, 06:58:41 AM »

Have to agree. I’ve flown hundreds of times. Never seen the curve.

53

Flat Earth Theory / Re: An experiment I want every single one of you to explain

« on: November 16, 2017, 06:55:56 AM »

As it happens, I’m taking a flight today. I shall pay careful attention to the horizon when we’re at 40000 feet.

Sadly it was cloudy all flight. I shall try again on the way back in a few days

54

Flat Earth Theory / Re: An experiment I want every single one of you to explain

« on: November 16, 2017, 12:39:23 AM »

In which case, I should be able to see it 24 hours a day, or at least, it would stay above the horizon but get dimmer. 

Here you go:

Increasing your altitude changes your perspective lines and allows you to see more distant lands. It will take a further amount of land to reach the Vanishing Point.

This is why it would take longer for the sun to set while you are at higher altitudes, and why the sun can be restored by rapidly increasing your altitude immediately after sunset.

Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot. The perspective lines meet at the horizon and are perfect, but the surface of the earth is not perfect. Any slight increase  in height near the Vanishing Point will allow something to disappear further behind it, much like a dime can obscure an elephant.

I won't be around any longer. I assure you that you can do some simple searches to find answers to your queries.

Tom Bishop with the mic drop. lol

Tom, before you depart, can you maybe post a diagram of perspectives at different heights for future reference?

The Wiki gives a description of the presumed effect, but it doesn’t give an explanation. Perhaps a diagram would help us understand.

55

Flat Earth Theory / Re: An experiment I want every single one of you to explain

« on: November 16, 2017, 12:29:16 AM »

As it happens, I’m taking a flight today. I shall pay careful attention to the horizon when we’re at 40000 feet.

56

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Using airline flight data.

« on: November 15, 2017, 05:17:35 PM »

You’d have thought, regardless of the topography, the earth would be reliably mapped by Now.  After all, people have been travelling all over it for hundreds of years !

By the way, are there any flat earth believers left here ?

57

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the planets

« on: November 15, 2017, 03:33:34 PM »

Hi RJDO and thanks for your reply. I know what you mean about frustration. None of them seem to be able to hold a meaningful debate. It might be more fun if 3Dgeek was a flat earther.  Did come here looking for a good debate. You know, counter theory with counter theory, but it doesn’t seem to happen. Its just being asked to prove the bleeding obvious, or denying the bleeding obvious exists.

58

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why are circular star trails claimed as evidence of a flat earth?

« on: November 15, 2017, 11:55:34 AM »

Never heard that one before. It shows a remarkable lack of understanding of physics.  The circles, in themselves don’t prove a flat or globular earth.  They just prove the Earth is rotating.  The fact that the centre gets lower in the sky as you move away from the poles proves that the Earth is round.  Particularly as they go one way in the northern hemisphere and the other in the southern.  That and the fact that you see different stars in each hemisphere.

59

Flat Earth Theory / Shape of the planets

« on: November 15, 2017, 10:38:36 AM »

We know the planets are spherical, as is the sun.  We can observe with a telescope and map surface features to show this.  However, if gravity doesn’t exist, what keeps the planets together, and why are they round ?

60

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Need To Believe In A Flat Earth

« on: November 15, 2017, 04:46:36 AM »

I too am interested in why people believe the earth is flat.  Not so much as in "because it looks flat" but more of why you think the world is flat despite the fact that most people accept it's round, and why you think there is a massive conspiracy to hide the fact that it's flat.