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Offline timterroo

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #160 on: June 17, 2020, 07:41:12 PM »
Watching the live hearing from the prosecutor right now, and it comes out that for roughly 45 minutes the officers questioned Rayshard and for 45 minutes he was compliant and respectful. After this time, the officer proceeded to arrest Rayshard - however, the officer failed to read Rayshard his rights and inform him that he was under arrest.

The taser Rayshard took had already been discharged, so it was NOT a lethal weapon and they knew this.

Then the officer also kicked Rayshard while he was on the ground after being shot - wth? Just doing his job, then? The officer is also on camera shown STANDING ON RAYSHARD!

Seems telling to me that there is more to this story.


Edit:

@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 08:03:58 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline honk

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #161 on: June 17, 2020, 08:08:04 PM »
however, the officer failed to read Rayshard his rights and inform him that he was under arrest

Reading someone their rights is not and has never been a requirement of arresting someone, and any reasonable adult should understand if a uniformed police officer tells them to put their hands behind their back and begins handcuffing them, they're obviously under arrest. I'm not saying it was okay to shoot this guy, but the implication that things might have gone differently if the cops had made a point of spelling out that he was being arrested and reading him his rights like it was a movie is an incredibly weak argument.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 09:44:40 PM by honk »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #162 on: June 17, 2020, 09:14:41 PM »
however, the officer failed to read Rayshard his rights and inform him that he was under arrest

Reading someone their rights is not and has never been a requirement of arresting someone, and any reasonable adult should understand if an uniformed police officer tells them to put their hands behind their back and begins handcuffing them, they're obviously under arrest. I'm not saying it was okay to shoot this guy, but the implication that things might have gone differently if the cops had made a point of spelling out that he was being arrested and reading him his rights like it was a movie is an incredibly weak argument.

OK - so maybe you don't have to spell out people's rights to arrest them, but there are procedures in place to arrest someone. You don't just grab their arm and twist them around (especially not someone who has shown nothing but compliance). You say something like, "I'm going to put you under arrest now, and take you to detox/jail, or wherever they're taking you. "Please turn around and put your hands behind your back". Then they slap the cuffs on you - no reason to force it the way he did.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline rooster

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #163 on: June 18, 2020, 01:52:35 AM »
Some of y'all really don't value human life, huh? Even if a cop was tasered, it's not a reason to murder someone ffs
Good thing no one was murdered.
Weird, I wonder why they're charging the cop with murder then? The other cops don't even want to defend this asshole. This is definitely not a situation where you're allowed to end a human life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/fulton-county-da-charges-officers-involved-in-deadly-shooting-of-rayshard-brooks.amp
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 02:02:11 AM by rooster »

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Offline rooster

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #164 on: June 18, 2020, 02:03:34 AM »
And IF Rayshard had managed to disable the officer and steal his pistol, then I'm sure one of the other cops would have been happy to kill him. But that's a big "if". Maybe cops shouldn't be cowards or try to predict the future.

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #165 on: June 18, 2020, 10:00:17 AM »
Here we can see what the motivation for prosecution is:

1. Not based on current Georgia Law;
2. A satisfaction of a mindless mob;
The prosecutor admitting a taser is a deadly weapon according to Georgia Law;


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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #166 on: June 18, 2020, 10:31:46 AM »
Here we can see what the motivation for prosecution is:

1. Not based on current Georgia Law;
2. A satisfaction of a mindless mob;
The prosecutor admitting a taser is a deadly weapon according to Georgia Law;

VID

You're citing Fox as a source? The network that in the last day or so has been caught falsifying photos of the CHAZ zone in Seattle, who pasted the same armed militia man into at least two different photos which purported to be genuine?

And Carlson? Really? He starts out trying to address this shooting, but flip-flops to scaremongering over "what will happen without police on our streets?" Within 10 mins. Do we really need to take the rest of his unfocused piece apart, phrase by phrase .. ?
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totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #167 on: June 18, 2020, 11:04:06 AM »
Here we can see what the motivation for prosecution is:

1. Not based on current Georgia Law;
2. A satisfaction of a mindless mob;
The prosecutor admitting a taser is a deadly weapon according to Georgia Law;

VID

You're citing Fox as a source? The network that in the last day or so has been caught falsifying photos of the CHAZ zone in Seattle, who pasted the same armed militia man into at least two different photos which purported to be genuine?

And Carlson? Really? He starts out trying to address this shooting, but flip-flops to scaremongering over "what will happen without police on our streets?" Within 10 mins. Do we really need to take the rest of his unfocused piece apart, phrase by phrase .. ?
Yes.

You should.

You stated nothing in response to the video.

He has pointed out very serious issues with the filing of this charge.

As usual, you try to attack the messenger for nothing he has done.

I know why you took this approach, but I will just allow you to admit it by your continued silence toward the actual points raised.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 11:08:28 AM by totallackey »

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #168 on: June 18, 2020, 11:15:22 AM »
@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
I have no clue where you got the idea that it is against Atlanta Police Department procedures to shoot someone who has a taser.

Because you are just flat out wrong:
https://www.atlantapd.org/Home/ShowDocument?id=3273

4.2 Use of Deadly Force
(CALEA 6th ed. Standard 4.2.1)
An employee may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when:
1. He or she reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object,
device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually
does result in serious bodily injury and when he or she reasonably believes that the suspect
poses an immediate threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or others; or
2. When there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving
the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm (O.C.G.A. Section 17-4-20) and
the employee reasonably believes that the suspect’s escape would create a continuing
danger of serious physical harm to any person.

Anyone who doesn't think a person who has wrestled with police and successfully stolen a taser from the police during that wrestling does not pose a threat of serious bodily injury to others is either purposefully obtuse or just plain ignorant.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 11:27:50 AM by totallackey »

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #169 on: June 18, 2020, 11:26:49 AM »
Some of y'all really don't value human life, huh? Even if a cop was tasered, it's not a reason to murder someone ffs
Good thing no one was murdered.
Weird, I wonder why they're charging the cop with murder then? The other cops don't even want to defend this asshole. This is definitely not a situation where you're allowed to end a human life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/fulton-county-da-charges-officers-involved-in-deadly-shooting-of-rayshard-brooks.amp
It is a situation where you are allowed to shoot.

Rest assured, those charges will not stand under scrutiny.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/ex-atlanta-officer-charged-with-murder-aggravated-assault-rayshard-brooks-shooting/XBWB3OZTM5D7ZCGSNWT6X2RPI4/

"However, Brosnan’s attorney said after Howard’s news conference that while his client is cooperating with the district attorney, he has not agreed to be a state witness or testify, WSB reported."

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #170 on: June 18, 2020, 12:06:20 PM »
The taser had been discharged and could not be used to cause bodily harm as was pointed out by the prosecution.
That is correct.

The taser had been discharged.

Was it one of these?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser

"On July 27, 2009 TASER International released a new type of TASER device called the X3, which can fire three shots before reloading."

It appears the taser can be fired more than once before reloading.

As a matter of fact, the prosecution appears to be clearly contradicting itself when they claim:

"He (Howard) said that before shooting Brooks, Rolfe fired his stun gun twice at the fleeing man in another violation of department rules."

When you try to pull up APD. SOP. 3.042  the website has taken that link down.

I think I will file an FOIA for that one.

This is looking more and more like a straw stirred by people that want this country in a civil war.

Not to mention the lack of news regarding the fact that George Floyd and the cop knew each other...

Rama Set

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #171 on: June 18, 2020, 12:09:36 PM »
The taser had been discharged and could not be used to cause bodily harm as was pointed out by the prosecution.
That is correct.

The taser had been discharged.

Was it one of these?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser

"On July 27, 2009 TASER International released a new type of TASER device called the X3, which can fire three shots before reloading."

It appears the taser can be fired more than once before reloading.

As a matter of fact, the prosecution appears to be clearly contradicting itself when they claim:

"He (Howard) said that before shooting Brooks, Rolfe fired his stun gun twice at the fleeing man in another violation of department rules."

When you try to pull up APD. SOP. 3.042  the website has taken that link down.

I think I will file an FOIA for that one.

Fair enough. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote
This is looking more and more like a straw stirred by people that want this country in a civil war.

Not to mention the lack of news regarding the fact that George Floyd and the cop knew each other...

Does them knowing each other mitigate the killing of George Floyd?

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #172 on: June 18, 2020, 12:16:47 PM »
Does them knowing each other mitigate the killing of George Floyd?
Of course not; however, it does throw water on the idea the killing had anything to do with race.

 

Rama Set

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #173 on: June 18, 2020, 12:27:26 PM »
Does them knowing each other mitigate the killing of George Floyd?
Of course not; however, it does throw water on the idea the killing had anything to do with race.

That doesn’t follow at all. You can know someone and still be racist towards them.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #174 on: June 18, 2020, 12:28:59 PM »
I know why you took this approach, but I will just allow you to admit it by your continued silence toward the actual points raised.

How can an exchange of TWO posts, one from you posting the video, one from me in response, regarding the video, be interpreted as "continued silence" ... ?

Have to go, discussion of Tucker's text to follow ...

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totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #175 on: June 18, 2020, 12:42:47 PM »
Does them knowing each other mitigate the killing of George Floyd?
Of course not; however, it does throw water on the idea the killing had anything to do with race.

That doesn’t follow at all. You can know someone and still be racist towards them.
It kinda does...had there been any indication of racism on the part Chauvin prior to this, especially with the way the media is right now, that most certainly would have been plastered all over the headlines.

No hate crime charges either...unless you want to write the DA and suggest that...let us know when you got that accomplished.

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #176 on: June 18, 2020, 12:46:40 PM »
I know why you took this approach, but I will just allow you to admit it by your continued silence toward the actual points raised.

How can an exchange of TWO posts, one from you posting the video, one from me in response, regarding the video, be interpreted as "continued silence" ... ?

Have to go, discussion of Tucker's text to follow ...
Your initial silence was taken as the indicator of continued silence regarding the actual points, based on prior behavior demonstrated by you when it comes to your attacking the messenger style.

If you want to discuss the actual points raised by Tucker, by all means, go ahead.

Rama Set

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #177 on: June 18, 2020, 02:40:49 PM »
Does them knowing each other mitigate the killing of George Floyd?
Of course not; however, it does throw water on the idea the killing had anything to do with race.

That doesn’t follow at all. You can know someone and still be racist towards them.
It kinda does...had there been any indication of racism on the part Chauvin prior to this, especially with the way the media is right now, that most certainly would have been plastered all over the headlines.

No hate crime charges either...unless you want to write the DA and suggest that...let us know when you got that accomplished.

I should be clearer, I am not sure if there is racism involved here, and neither are you.  I understand that in a court if there was a more likely motivation for Floyd's killing, then that would cast doubt on racism being a motivator.  Ultimately, this event was a flashpoint for the events that followed.  Another black man was unnecessarily killed by the police and the black people of the USA were fed up and for good reasons.  Black people, when you control for other factors, are over-represented to a suspicious degree and it's been going on for decades.  It isn't surprising that this happened, in the context of a tanking economy and people having nothing to distract them.  I am not saying I agree with the violence that has broken out, I don't but the peaceful protests are a positive and necessary force for change in the US.  Police need to be trained to a higher standard so they can be held to a higher standard, in my opinion.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #178 on: June 18, 2020, 03:08:42 PM »
@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
I have no clue where you got the idea that it is against Atlanta Police Department procedures to shoot someone who has a taser.

You conveniently ignored the latter part of the statement, so I'll restate it for you, only bolded this time:

"it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away.

The man was shot in the back.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #179 on: June 18, 2020, 03:39:27 PM »
4.2 Use of Deadly Force
(CALEA 6th ed. Standard 4.2.1)
An employee may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when:
1. He or she reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object,
device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually
does result in serious bodily injury and when he or she reasonably believes that the suspect
poses an immediate threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or others; or
2. When there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving
the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm (O.C.G.A. Section 17-4-20) and
the employee reasonably believes that the suspect’s escape would create a continuing
danger of serious physical harm to any person.

Anyone who doesn't think a person who has wrestled with police and successfully stolen a taser from the police during that wrestling does not pose a threat of serious bodily injury to others is either purposefully obtuse or just plain ignorant.

No. 2 is totally non-applicable to the Brooks case. No probable cause to suspect a prior crime, so first clause fails

No. 1 must satisfy both clauses, and whilst the first clause is clear, he was in possession of a taser, the second is not, as there had been no indication prior to him running away that he had any intent to cause harm, either to the public or to the officers. All that you can take from his actions is that he wanted to get away.

"... and when he or she reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of serious bodily injury to the officer or others"   
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?