[Vindictus]

Who is honestly going to shoot down a 777 that May or may not have passengers? The risk is too high even if there is no authorization. Plus you only need authorization to takeoff or land, not fly over airspace. Especially airspace in Asia or the Middle East where regulation of airspace is very limited.

We're living in a post 9/11 world here. The US would shoot down a passenger plane in a heartbeat if they thought it could become a weapon.

[Howtofly8]

America would never shoot on passenger airplane. Plus, looking at the area it is in, America is not even an ideal target. North of the Indian Ocean, India has more than twice the population density and less of a chance to prevent an attack. Northwest is the middle  eastern oilfields, another great target. Even crashing it into the Ukraine or Russia to cause more unrest could be a possibility. Not to mention china...

[Ghost of V]

America would never shoot on passenger airplane. Plus, looking at the area it is in, America is not even an ideal target. North of the Indian Ocean, India has more than twice the population density and less of a chance to prevent an attack. Northwest is the middle  eastern oilfields, another great target. Even crashing it into the Ukraine or Russia to cause more unrest could be a possibility. Not to mention china...

I don't think a terrorist's main MO is to kill the most people as possible. They usually have some agenda and many extremists dislike the US, so there's motive right there. Also, why do you think the US wouldn't fire on an airplane with civilians in it? We've done more fucked up things before, see: Hiroshima.

Also, if there's an unidentified plane flying around the US with no record that it should be in the sky, then what is the possibility that the terrorists stopped to pick up civilians? Almost none. They would shoot it down first and ask questions later.

[Howtofly8]

But no permission is required for nonmilitant aircraft to enter US airspace unless specifically requested, which, due to the large number of flights entering the US is not feasible to check each one. Why do you believe that the terrorists would attack the US? We hardly lead the running for most acts if terror. Britain, France, the Middle East, and even parts of Africa are ahead of us. Also 777s have enough fuel capacity oh go at least halfway around the world without stopping. And in regard to Hiroshima, politicians would NEVER attack an aircraft that might have civilians on it because of the effect it may have in their career. Same with continued use of nukes with disregard to building them, thats ok. 

[Lord Dave]

But no permission is required for nonmilitant aircraft to enter US airspace unless specifically requested, which, due to the large number of flights entering the US is not feasible to check each one. Why do you believe that the terrorists would attack the US? We hardly lead the running for most acts if terror. Britain, France, the Middle East, and even parts of Africa are ahead of us. Also 777s have enough fuel capacity oh go at least halfway around the world without stopping. And in regard to Hiroshima, politicians would NEVER attack an aircraft that might have civilians on it because of the effect it may have in their career. Same with continued use of nukes with disregard to building them, thats ok.

Except around cities. New York city, for example, require all flights to follow a very specific flight plan when landing at an airport near the city.  I suspect that if a plane deviated they'd scramble fighter jets.  But would that be enough time?  Dunno.

[Vindictus]

Jesus, this thread got stupid quick. Shooting a plane down is not a political decision, it's a military one, and it would be made very quickly if a plane mysteriously entered US air space and didn't respond to any contact (just like the Iran Airlines flight the US shot down decades ago). A Boeing 777 is not going to be able to enter US air space without being seen. Shooting it down would also not be an issue; they could have a jet in the air in minutes, and they only need to be within 200km for an AIM-120 to do its job.

That said, MH370 is almost certainly at the bottom of the Indian Ocean somewhere. Stealing a plane that everyone is looking for to use as a weapon is one of the most elaborately stupid things anyone could do.

[Lord Dave]

Jesus, this thread got stupid quick. Shooting a plane down is not a political decision, it's a military one, and it would be made very quickly if a plane mysteriously entered US air space and didn't respond to any contact (just like the Iran Airlines flight the US shot down decades ago). A Boeing 777 is not going to be able to enter US air space without being seen. Shooting it down would also not be an issue; they could have a jet in the air in minutes, and they only need to be within 200km for an AIM-120 to do its job.

That said, MH370 is almost certainly at the bottom of the Indian Ocean somewhere. Stealing a plane that everyone is looking for to use as a weapon is one of the most elaborately stupid things anyone could do.

Its not that stupid.  Hack the transponder with a new code, give it a different paint job and you have a new random missile.

And in all honesty, I would expect this plane to be able to slip through without suspicion simply because of all the data going around.  Sure the plane will be listed as delayed when it arrives on time but that'll be quickly dismissed.

Then smash, right into downtown LA!

[Howtofly8]

Exactly. Plus, the military is very involved in politics, the chain of command involves the president who could take a lot of flack (pardon the pun) for shooting down such an airplane. Before doing this, someone up at the DOD, pentagon, or White House would have to approve an attack on an airplane that is not clearly a threat.

[Lord Dave]

Exactly. Plus, the military is very involved in politics, the chain of command involves the president who could take a lot of flack (pardon the pun) for shooting down such an airplane. Before doing this, someone up at the DOD, pentagon, or White House would have to approve an attack on an airplane that is not clearly a threat.

Blowing up planes that don't comply with flight plans is standard procedure now.

[fappenhosen]

Then you would be labeled as a terrorist.

I don't think you understand what a terrorist is. A terrorist is the other guy. Obama could drop nukes on Pakistani weddings for a year and he still wouldn't be a terrorist. According to Fox News he would be weak for not upgrading USAs newcular arsenal so he could really stick it to those flower girls.

Jesus, this thread got stupid quick.

Verily Vindictus dost speak truth.

[Howtofly8]

A terrorist ya someone who attempts to inflict terror. Since ghost isn't well known, if he shot down an airplane, he would be labeled a terrorist. Same with the fort hood guy, the people in the mall in Kenya, and the people in the article.

Who is honestly going to shoot down a 777 that May or may not have passengers?

Who indeed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

Ok, you and what army will identify this airplane, travel to the right location, then use your combined small arms power (or expensive missiles) to take down the airplane in the time it takes to take the airplane off and fly it to the area of the terrorist attack. All of the above incidents were either by chance, or a group attacking an airplane they had known was going to be somewhere at a certain time. It could be on its way now and you wouldn't hear of it until after the incident happened. By then, I have calculated that you will be pretty late to pull off your vigilante plans.

[Vindictus]

Jesus, this thread got stupid quick. Shooting a plane down is not a political decision, it's a military one, and it would be made very quickly if a plane mysteriously entered US air space and didn't respond to any contact (just like the Iran Airlines flight the US shot down decades ago). A Boeing 777 is not going to be able to enter US air space without being seen. Shooting it down would also not be an issue; they could have a jet in the air in minutes, and they only need to be within 200km for an AIM-120 to do its job.

That said, MH370 is almost certainly at the bottom of the Indian Ocean somewhere. Stealing a plane that everyone is looking for to use as a weapon is one of the most elaborately stupid things anyone could do.

Its not that stupid.  Hack the transponder with a new code, give it a different paint job and you have a new random missile.

And in all honesty, I would expect this plane to be able to slip through without suspicion simply because of all the data going around.  Sure the plane will be listed as delayed when it arrives on time but that'll be quickly dismissed.

Then smash, right into downtown LA!

I realise it's not the cold war anymore, and I'm not well versed on the capabilities of US radar, but I highly doubt a 777 could simply fly into US air space and ram itself into LA without being noticed. In fact, I'm pretty sure the US would be aware of it at least as far out as Hawaii.

Exactly. Plus, the military is very involved in politics, the chain of command involves the president who could take a lot of flack (pardon the pun) for shooting down such an airplane. Before doing this, someone up at the DOD, pentagon, or White House would have to approve an attack on an airplane that is not clearly a threat.

The president wouldn't make the decision. No one that high in the chain of command was involved here or here. The Russians even fired on the plane knowing it was a civilian airliner in the second example. All that needs to take place is the detection of the plane and it giving false information or not responding at all.

[Howtofly8]

Your first example was a mistake. A unit fired upon by a known enemy has the ability to defend itself without requesting permission. A 777 wouldn't open fire, it would be crashed. The airbus got in the way of a defense move.

The second example was by the Russians, idiots at best, and don't have the same kind of chain of command as us nor the same accountability demand from their people since their people probably weren't notified due to press censorship.

I'm not denying we wouldn't see the airplane. We just are not obligated by protocol to communicate with an airplane entering airspace over the US. Also, I don't even predict the attack occurring here. I have made the point several times that the attack would be more strategic in the Middle East, Asia, or even Europe.

We wouldn't shoot down a passenger airplane unless we were sure that it posed a threat. An airplane in the scenario I outlined wouldn't pose a threat until it actually hit its target, giving a defense entity no time to prevent it!

[Vindictus]

the attack would be more strategic in the Middle East, Asia, or even Europe.

The US (and other parties) almost certainly have better radar coverage in these areas than anywhere else in the world. I don't think so.

We wouldn't shoot down a passenger airplane unless we were sure that it posed a threat. An airplane in the scenario I outlined wouldn't pose a threat until it actually hit its target, giving a defense entity no time to prevent it!

What do you think the military would do if

1. A Boeing 777 was spotted
2. Fighters were scrambled and have eye contact with it
3. It's not responding to contact or is responding with incorrect information and the point of origin cannot be determined

This is what would happen if MH370 appeared anywhere. They would shoot it down before it could become a threat. I don't think there's a single strategic target in the world that could be reached by a Boeing 777. This is also assuming crazy things, like the landing of the plane at a remote air strip (which likely damaged the landing gear), its refueling and repainting, etc.

[Howtofly8]

The US and friends can't track the thousands of airplanes in the air, much less the 1188 777s, all nearly identical, at the same tine for the months if not years that potential terrorists could hide this airplane until they use it. Reader detects airplanes, it doesn't segregate. You would have to check each airplane, scramble fighters (quicker said than done) attempt communication, receive clearance to fire, find a safe place to shoot the airplane down over, all before it hits something. It is a needle in a haystack, especially if it were done at night.

Boeing 777s can travel 1164 Maurice miles with a full capacity of passengers, London to Hong Kong. They could strike anywhere in Africa, Europe, Asia, the Middle East, or America with range like that.

the attack would be more strategic in the Middle East, Asia, or even Europe.

This is what would happen if MH370 appeared anywhere. They would shoot it down before it could become a threat. I don't think there's a single strategic target in the world that could be reached by a Boeing 777. This is also assuming crazy things, like the landing of the plane at a remote air strip (which likely damaged the landing gear), its refueling and repainting, etc.

This is because we don't have mechanics to fix stiff like this, right?

[Vindictus]

The US and friends can't track the thousands of airplanes in the air, much less the 1188 777s, all nearly identical, at the same tine for the months if not years that potential terrorists could hide this airplane until they use it. Reader detects airplanes, it doesn't segregate. You would have to check each airplane, scramble fighters (quicker said than done) attempt communication, receive clearance to fire, find a safe place to shoot the airplane down over, all before it hits something. It is a needle in a haystack, especially if it were done at night.

Boeing 777s can travel 1164 Maurice miles with a full capacity of passengers, London to Hong Kong. They could strike anywhere in Africa, Europe, Asia, the Middle East, or America with range like that.

They can, and they do. I think you're underestimating the capabilities of military's around the world. They would be able to spot the plane the second it entered the air space of just about anywhere except Africa. The Middle East is covered in radar from a variety of countries and would probably be the worst place to fly into, Europe is similar. China and Russia would both have some sort of detection in Asia. If it isn't following a standard airliner course, they would notice this immediately. They would probably hail it, then scramble jets following that.

I strongly doubt that a 777 could travel that far without being spotted once the entire time. MH370 was spotted multiple times flying south (into no where) while the pilot was actively trying to avoid this.

This is because we don't have mechanics to fix stiff like this, right?

You're implying a large operation just to get one Boeing 777 in the air. Jet fuel isn't exactly easy to come by, either.

[Howtofly8]

To complete the act of terror I speak of, spotting the airplane means nothing, even over India, shooting it down would kill at least dozens from the debris. I think you overestimate the ability if a military to identify the airplane and shoot is down in the time it would take to reach target. Repairs on landing gear is easy, many a days or two of work. Fuel is easy to get. I can drive 5 miles to my nearby airport and buy 200 gallons. People do it all the time (my friend works there). With some time, that 777 could be back in the air and be bound for India, Thailand, or Dubai. As for spotting it, idk where you are, but under the jet stream, dozens of flights go overhead each day, you stop noticing it after a whole. After two months, people won't be on high alert for a 777, you can't stay watching forever...

[Ghost of V]

"Yeah I'd like to buy 200 gallons of jet fuel, please..."

[Howtofly8]

It costs a lot, but people use it to refuel airplanes on cross country (multiple stop) flights when they land at unmanned airports in desolate areas.

[Ghost of V]

It costs a lot, but people use it to refuel airplanes on cross country (multiple stop) flights when they land at unmanned airports in desolate areas.

No they don't.