The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: Tintagel on December 26, 2013, 04:58:35 PM
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Was doing some research this morning in relation to light in FET when I remembered this formula existing in our wiki on this page: http://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Accelerator (http://wiki.tfes.org/Electromagnetic_Accelerator)
(http://wiki.tfes.org/images/9/92/Bendy.png)
I searched the old forums for where this simple formula came from, but all I could find was a thread where Euclid derived the following equation for how light from polaris bends moving rimwards from the north pole:
Success! I have derived an equation for the path of light from the north star in the north south direction that exhibits the above assumptions.
y(x) = h - x Cot[r/h] - (x^2 (3 h - 2 r Cot[r/h] - r Tan[Pi/2 (1 - r/R)]))/r^2 - (x^3 (-2 h + r Cot[r/h] + r Tan[Pi/2 (1 - r/R)]))/r^3
y is the height of the light beam as a function of x, the distance from the north pole. h is the height of the Sun. r is distance of a ground observer of the light beam from the north pole. R is the distance from the equator to the north pole.
This is a cubic equation. Further degrees of polynomials could be used up to an infinite Taylor series, but they would require more unknown parameters. Perhaps a theory for cause of bendy light could provide values for these unknown parameters. Quadratic and lower polynomials are unable to satisfy the assumptions.
The thread goes on for a while, but ends with Parsifal:
I have recently come to the realisation that for any function y = f(x) that models the curvature of light, its derivative function f'(x) must be an injective function. Otherwise, the action of Dark Energy on rays of light at a particular gradient will be ambiguous. Euclid's equation does not fit with this requirement, as its derivative function is a quadratic whose value therefore approaches positive infinity as x approaches either positive or negative infinity.
I enjoy maths, so I'd like to continue the discussion here. Parsifal, was any more work done beyond this, and how does that thread relate to the EA equation that is found in the Wiki?
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It's called gravity, moron.
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I can't find the derivation of this equation.
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It's called gravity, moron.
Thank you for your enlightening contribution to this calculation.
Not that you have any idea what you're talking about, but for the sake of debate... The EA has nothing to do with the force of gravity (or UA, if you prefer) as it pertains to physical matter. The EA is responsible for the bending of light upward inside the atmoplane. All of these things are connected, it's true, but this is to determine the effects of EA (part of UA, which causes gravity) on light, and has nothing to do with the graviation effect of UA. The idea is to develop a mathematically sound theory which accounts for a large number of observations others try to interpret as indicating a spherical earth. Intuitively, I know it will work. I'm just trying to work out the math of how to get there.
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We went to the moon, for fuck's sake. You people just deny everything. How in the hell could NASA fake going to the moon?
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We went to the moon, for fuck's sake. You people just deny everything. How in the hell could NASA fake going to the moon?
If you aren't going to stay on topic, there's little point in debate. I assume you strawman'd over to the topic of the NASA / the Conspiracy, because you don't have a good rebuttal for EM, or any idea what I'm talking about.
There are several threads on NASA and the conspiracy, which I am admittedly not an expert nor an aficionado. I'm a Flat Earth Theorist, not a conspiracy theorist. However, I'm sure Tom Bishop would love to educate you, as he knows volumes more about that subject than I.
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Electromagnetism does exist. However, please tell me how electrical current flowing through a coil has to do with the earth supposedly accelerating indefinitely through space?
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Electromagnetic Acceleration Theory (sometimes referred to as bendy light or EAT) has nothing to do with the acceleration of the flat earth. That would be Universal Acceleration Theory. EAT concerns the bending of light to explain RE phenomena such as the sinking ship effect.
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markjo, electromagnetism does not affect light, in case you did not know.
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The other theory (the one I subscribe to) is that celestial light bends due to refraction as it passes through the firmament.
Maybe our new guest will find that more palatable in his acceptance that the earth is flat?
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Electromagnetism does exist. However, please tell me how electrical current flowing through a coil has to do with the earth supposedly accelerating indefinitely through space?
If you think that electromagnetism only applies to the device we call an electromagnet, then you certainly have no place debating anything related to physics.
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The other theory (the one I subscribe to) is that celestial light bends due to refraction as it passes through the firmament.
Maybe our new guest will find that more palatable in his acceptance that the earth is flat?
You seem to have a wild imagination, but I will bite. Refraction happens when light passes through a medium with different densities. Please explain yourself.
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Electromagnetism does exist. However, please tell me how electrical current flowing through a coil has to do with the earth supposedly accelerating indefinitely through space?
If you think that electromagnetism only applies to the device we call an electromagnet, then you certainly have no place debating anything related to physics.
Electromagnetism occurs when electrons flow through a conductor. In other words, you need a conductor and an electrical charge in order for electromagnetism to occur.
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The other theory (the one I subscribe to) is that celestial light bends due to refraction as it passes through the firmament.
Maybe our new guest will find that more palatable in his acceptance that the earth is flat?
You seem to have a wild imagination, but I will bite. Refraction happens when light passes through a medium with different densities. Please explain yourself.
The firmament is defined as a crystalline material that enshrines the earth. Think of it as a big glass bubble and all of us living in a snow dome.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FFGF_wRrOjQ/T9SwaDUdT-I/AAAAAAAAA4A/duG5eWy7wWU/s1600/Slide09.jpg)
Its a very popular FE theory. Above is a picture of the Flammarion woodcut. You can google that if you want to know more.
The firmament is also mentioned in the Bible. (Historical references throughout Hebrew texts).
The crystalline canopy is a model of the canopy theory used as a source of the 40-day rain that fell during Noah's flood. It is envisioned as a blanket of polarized hydrogen ice crystals and is believed by some[Reference needed] to have formed a huge magnetic shield that surrounded the earth. This is not to be confused with the Dyson sphere
Anyway, you can see how that would bend the light of the sun and stars.
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Oh, I did not know that you believed the same crap as that sceptimatic guy on the other flat earth site. Can you tell us how this dome was created?
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Electromagnetism does exist. However, please tell me how electrical current flowing through a coil has to do with the earth supposedly accelerating indefinitely through space?
If you think that electromagnetism only applies to the device we call an electromagnet, then you certainly have no place debating anything related to physics.
Electromagnetism occurs when electrons flow through a conductor. In other words, you need a conductor and an electrical charge in order for electromagnetism to occur.
Electromagnetism is defined as one of the four fundamental forces of nature. The process you're referring to is electromagnetic induction. Not the same thing.
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Oh, I did not know that you believed the same crap as that sceptimatic guy on the other flat earth site. Can you tell us how this dome was created?
Hydrogen is lighter than air. Is formed with the rest of the atmosphere.
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Electromagnetism is defined as one of the four fundamental forces of nature. The process you're referring to is electromagnetic induction. Not the same thing.
lol, iduction is a totally different subject. It means that a charge is induced from one conductor to another through a non conductive medium.
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Oh, I did not know that you believed the same crap as that sceptimatic guy on the other flat earth site. Can you tell us how this dome was created?
Hydrogen is lighter than air. Is formed with the rest of the atmosphere.
Hydrogen is IN the air. I have no idea what you are actually trying to say.
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Oh, I did not know that you believed the same crap as that sceptimatic guy on the other flat earth site. Can you tell us how this dome was created?
Hydrogen is lighter than air. Is formed with the rest of the atmosphere.
Hydrogen is IN the air. I have no idea what you are actually trying to say.
Hydrogen is in the air at sea level because it is attached to oxygen (water vapour). Hydrogen particles on their own dwell in the upper atmosphere because hydrogen is lighter than the other components in it. Hydrogen at sea level (H2) on its own only forms 0.00005% of the air. The rest is way up high.
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Oh, I did not know that you believed the same crap as that sceptimatic guy on the other flat earth site. Can you tell us how this dome was created?
Hydrogen is lighter than air. Is formed with the rest of the atmosphere.
Hydrogen is IN the air. I have no idea what you are actually trying to say.
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http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventions/ss/airship_3.htm
Figure out how they work and you'll have an idea where all the hydrogen goes.
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Tintagel, iirc, Parsifal had lost all the work he had done in deriving that formula, and considering its reliance on scientific fantasy it should not be relied on. If you poke around on the other site, you can likely find the conversation where Parsifal mentions this.
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Electromagnetism is defined as one of the four fundamental forces of nature. The process you're referring to is electromagnetic induction. Not the same thing.
lol, iduction is a totally different subject. It means that a charge is induced from one conductor to another through a non conductive medium.
Sigh.
Let me break this down into simple terms for you.
The EM is so called because it is a force that accelerates light, and causes it to bend.
All wavelengths of light are collectively called the Electromagnetic Spectrum.
[IMG width="400"]http://i.imgur.com/VD3LHBz.png[/img]
Hence; Electromagnetic Accelerator.
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Tintagel, iirc, Parsifal had lost all the work he had done in deriving that formula, and considering its reliance on scientific fantasy it should not be relied on. If you poke around on the other site, you can likely find the conversation where Parsifal mentions this.
I have spoken to Parsifal about it, yes. I'm not surprised that the formula itself is flawed, the wiki entry states as much, but I'm nonetheless working on a new version that should be free of imaginary constants.
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Thork, I don't mean this as an insult, but you are an idiot. Hydrogen is everywhere.
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markjo, electromagnetism does not affect light, in case you did not know.
Electromagnetism is light. A photon is simply an oscillation between magnetism and electricity, as explained by the following diagram: (http://www.geo.mtu.edu/rs/back/spectrum/e_mag.gif)
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Tausami, my refrigerator magnets emit no light. I wonder why. Maybe because you are full of shit?
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Tausami, my refrigerator magnets emit no light.
Incorrect
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incorrect.
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incorrect.
Black body radiation is a thing, and your refrigerator magnets presumably do it.
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Black body radiation is a thing
Reported for racism. >:(
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Thork, I don't mean this as an insult, but you are an idiot.
Says the person who doesn't understand the principle of electromagnetism.
Tausami, my refrigerator magnets emit no light. I wonder why. Maybe because you are full of shit?
This is absolutely false. Everything with a temperature above absolute zero emits light. The visible spectrum is only a tiny part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Everything around us, including you and I, glow in the infrared. How do you think thermal imaging works? You are proving yourself to have absolutely no concept of the way light, and therefore electromagnetism, work.
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Black body radiation is a thing
Reported for racism. >:(
Blackbody as in a continuous spectrum, as opposed to the emission lines one sees from certain elements. Really Thork, you should know this stuff. ;)
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I like how you people redefine everything to suit your needs. lol
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I like how you people redefine everything to suit your needs. lol
I suggest you read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations
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I like how you people redefine everything to suit your needs. lol
I'm sorry BillyBob but these guys are right.
As Tausami pointed out, photons are made up of an electric and magnetic field osculating at right angles to each other. This gives us the electromagnetic spectrum, which includes light, radio waves, x-rays, microwaves, etc...
You seem stuck on an electromagnet. However that is based on the same principal.
As electricity flows it produces an electric field. As electrons move, the electric field changes. This change in the electric field causes a magnetic field to form perpendicular. This is why a wire coiled up causes a magnetic field: the electric field is constantly shifting. By wrapping it around an iron core, the metal atoms become magnetized. When this occurs all the atom's line up in the same arrangement so their magnetic fields all point the same way. As a result you have a strong magnet from a weaker magnetic force.
The opposite is also true. If you have a changing magnetic field over a conductive metal, you'll generate an electric field which translates to moving electrons. This is how electricity is generated.
All these things are connected. This is why if you stand next to your home's electrical box your cell or radio signal will decrease in quality: the magnetic field generated by the moving electrons in your electrical box is enough to disrupt the Electro-Magnetic waves.
So if radio and microwaves can be disrupted by an electromagnetic field, why not light?
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Light--The visible portion of the EM spectrum.
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Light--The visible portion of the EM spectrum.
So infrared light isn't light? Ultraviolet light isn't light? I'm sure scientists worldwide will be interested to read your work on this subject.
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No, it is not. Light is the portion that you can see. Infrared and Ultraviolet are not visible to the human eye.
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markjo, electromagnetism does not affect light, in case you did not know.
Light--The visible portion of the EM spectrum.
So do you now think light can be effected by electromagnetism?
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I have a rare earth magnet. It is very strong. And, guess what, it does not alter the light that passes near it. I wonder why?
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I have a rare earth magnet. It is very strong. And, guess what, it does not alter the light that passes near it. I wonder why?
That is a static magnetic field. No one is claiming that static magnetic fields affect light. A static magnetic field is not the same thing as EM radiation.
Light is Electromagnetic Radiation, and Electromagnetic Radiation is light. The word "radiation" is the clue here. It includes the entire EM spectrum, including radio and x-rays and gamma rays. It doesn't have to be visible to be light. I refer you to Maxwell's equations.
However, your magnet is made of matter and is warmer than absolute zero, so it will also emit some EM radiation far into the infrared. The magnet emits EM Radiation not because it's a magnet, it's because it's made of matter, and matter is energy, energy produces light, and for the last time, light is EM radiation. They're the same thing.
The Electromagnet Accelerator is so named because it affects Electromagnetic Radiation. AKA: light.
I don't understand what is so difficult about this.
Now, unless you're ready to stop trying to compare your refrigerator magnets with EM radiation, I'm finished with this fruitless conversation. There's little point in continuing the discussion if you don't understand even the most basic concepts of light.
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BillyBob may be right:
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=2009
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BillyBob may be right:
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=2009
Et tu, Rama? No one said that magnetic fields bend light? That's not what the term Electromagnetic Accelerator means.
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Bah! I thought BillyBob was talking about light bending. Apologies.
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I am. The bendy light people are nuts.
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I don't think that the bending in EA is caused by EM radiation. Rather the bending is due to "Dark Energy" whatever that may be.
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lol, light bending is not only wrong, it is made up to make a flat earth seem real.
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I don't think that the bending in EA is caused by EM radiation. Rather the bending is due to "Dark Energy" whatever that may be.
This is true. Light IS EM radiation. The Electromagnetic Accelerator is an Accelerator of Electromagnetic Radiation. Dark Energy's a perfectly acceptable term for it as well.
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Light--The visible portion of the EM spectrum.
How is that relevant?
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How are you relevant?
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How are you relevant?
Try not to get yourself banned, the upper fora is finally getting interesting again.
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How are you relevant?
If you are unable to answer a very simple question related to the debate, perhaps you should choose a different topic?