1

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: Today at 09:27:14 PM »

That is still hearsay.

No, it's not.  Try to follow...

Case 1

Lawer1: "Did Mr. X get into his car the night of the rape?"

Witness: "He said he did."

Lawer2: "Objection, hearsay!"

Judge: "Objection sustained."

Case 2

Lawer1: "Did Mr. X tell you personally that he got into his car the night of the rape?"

Witness: "Yes, he did."

Lawer2: "Objection, hearsay!"

Judge: "Objection overruled."

funny, where are the judges asking the questions in this matter?

It is hearsay.

2

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: Today at 09:25:51 PM »

What happens right after conception?

Within 24 hours after fertilization, the egg begins rapidly dividing into many cells. It remains in the fallopian tube for about three days after conception. Then the fertilized egg (now called a blastocyte) continues to divide as it passes slowly through the fallopian tube to the uterus. Once there, its next job is to attach to the endometrium. This is called implantation.

What about blastocytes that don't implant or otherwise become non-viable due to natural reasons?  Is the woman liable the loss of pregnancy for natural reasons if she doesn't even know that she might have been (at least briefly) pregnant?

How many human embryos die between fertilisation and birth under natural conditions? It is widely accepted that natural human embryo mortality is high, particularly during the first weeks after fertilisation, with total prenatal losses of 70% and higher frequently claimed.

The topic is abortion, not miscarriage.

3

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: Today at 09:24:51 PM »

And you believe that conception immediately equals personhood?

I refer you back to the topic of abortion.

Abortion takes place at a time after conception.

When does a pregnancy start?

The start of pregnancy is actually the first day of your last menstrual period. This is called the gestational age, or menstrual age. It’s about two weeks ahead of when conception actually occurs. Though it may seem strange, the date of the first day of your last period will be an important date when determining your due date. Your healthcare provider will ask you about this date and will use it to figure out how far along you are in your pregnancy.

What happens right after conception?

Within 24 hours after fertilization, the egg begins rapidly dividing into many cells. It remains in the fallopian tube for about three days after conception. Then the fertilized egg (now called a blastocyte) continues to divide as it passes slowly through the fallopian tube to the uterus. Once there, its next job is to attach to the endometrium. This is called implantation.
Within three weeks, the blastocyte cells ultimately form a little ball, or an embryo. By this time, the first nerve cells have formed.

So do you believe a blastocyte is a person and a potential victim if an abortion occurs at this stage, post-conception, pre-embryo?

Again, the topic is abortion, not conception.

4

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: Today at 07:49:20 PM »

And you believe that conception immediately equals personhood?

I refer you back to the topic of abortion.

Abortion takes place at a time after conception.

5

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: Today at 07:44:43 PM »

She testified as to what she heard...aka HEARSAY.

Unless that was the evidence she was asked to testify on and that she heard it firsthand.

That is still hearsay.

6

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: Today at 04:54:27 PM »

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/94.102

Seems a crime victim is a person

You are just flat-out wrong.

So, there you have it.

An unborn fetus is a person.

This is just so lazy. You're telling me I'm wrong for pasting a literal law that explicitly excludes abortions and pretending like you understand legal terms better than people who write the laws.

Lazy?

The source I posted is a legal source, defining what a victim is.

A victim is a person, period, end of sentence.

That means when an abortion happens, a person is killed.

You have to define first whether a fetus is a ‘person’ or not. Then you can make the claim that when an abortion happens, a person is killed. That’s pretty much the crux of the whole issue; is a fetus a person at 6 weeks gestation? 12 weeks? 24 weeks? At conception?

The law already defines it.

If you murder women who are pregnant, you are guilty of two counts of murder.

Pretty clear cut.

Not really that clear cut:

Some of the state-specific feticide laws considered the fetus to be a person if it is viable, meaning it can survive out of the womb independently.

Some States, the ones you would expect, consider a fetus a "person" at any stage of pregnancy, hence the double homicide. Other States say a fetus is a "person" at viability, not before.
And even some States have no laws on the books regarding this at all.

So no, the blanket statement of "murder women who are pregnant, you are guilty of two counts of murder," is not true in all cases.

Of course, it isn't true in all cases due to the fact there are people who want to substitute their own reality for actual reality so they can kill a person via abortion without fear of external consequence.

People who do this are no better than John Wayne Gacy or Jeffery Dahmer or Ted Bundy.

The reality is that a victim = a person.

7

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: Today at 04:50:49 PM »

Why are you perpetuating hearsay and a story that has been flatly denied by senior officials with the Secret Service?

Has it been denied by someone under oath? For the lady who delivered this to the J6 committee was under oath. Are you accusing her of perjury?

She testified as to what she heard...aka HEARSAY.

Anyone willing to offer direct testimony of what happened has not been called to testify.

8

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: Today at 04:48:32 PM »

Democratic Socialist NAZI's

Are you sure putting those 3 words together makes any kind of sense?  I'd throw in fascist and globalist too, just to be extra sure it's utter rubbish.

Yeah, I am positive.

Fascist and globalist also fit, so it is not rubbish.

9

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: Today at 02:06:18 PM »

There's been a lot of news about Trump lately in the ongoing hearings, but the one big story everyone is talking about is Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony. Here's a good article summarizing it:

https://www.vox.com/2022/6/28/23186748/cassidy-hutchinson-january-6-hearing-committee

Why are you perpetuating hearsay and a story that has been flatly denied by senior officials with the Secret Service?

These hearings are just fodder, designed to keep everyone's attention off the fact the US is totally broke, our Democratic Socialist NAZI's are keeping Democratic Socialist NAZI's in power in Ukraine, in order to promulgate and perpetuate human trafficking and the slave trade, along with bioweapons manufacture.

10

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 03:36:59 PM »

True enough.  He is always 100% more cordial

I consider it cordial to point out obvious crap so others do not step into it.

11

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 03:34:00 PM »

If you aren't interested in having an honest conversation, you should just avoid me instead of looking lying to try and make me look bad.

He never is. We bypassed homicide being the number one cause of death to pregnant women

No, we didn't.

I pointed out an additional charge of homicide is also leveled, something you very much wanted to keep out of the discussion as it renders your reasoning in support of abortion to actually be reasoning in support of wanton murder.

and are back on first trimester abortion is murder that apparently matters more than the woman. There's no point.

No one stated any murder of any one person matters more than the murder of any other person except for abortion advocates like you.

I do not want to see anyone murdered except bad actors.

A fetus cannot be a bad actor.

People who are irresponsible, engage in coitus without exercising proper birth control, all while thinking "Gee, I hope our act does not result in a pregnancy..." are actually the bad actors.

In addition, it would be good to see the equivocation so evident in posts like yours meet its justified demise.

12

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 02:50:09 PM »

Imagine using the adjectives "medically necessary," when describing the act of murder.

Yet, here, directly above this post, Rama does exactly just that.

Remarkable.

I see, your attempt to misrepresent what I wrote failed comepletely so now you are pivoting.  If you aren't interested in having an honest conversation, you should just avoid me instead of looking lying to try and make me look bad.

Not at all. I have remained completely consistent and on target.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my characterization of your post.

I do not consider you to be an expert on others committing acts of misrepresentation.

But take heart, as you are an expert at such acts, having had so much practice.

13

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 01:49:05 PM »

Imagine using the adjectives "medically necessary," when describing the act of murder.

Yet, here, directly above this post, Rama does exactly just that.

Remarkable.

14

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 12:59:57 PM »

As we admit that it is a complicated issue it’s also important to remember that the vast majority of abortions are done in the first trimester before viability and that the small percentage that are done after, the vast majority are for medically necessary reasons and the tiny percentage of those that aren’t could likely be greatly reduced by access to abortion, contraception and better sex education.

If what you write is the actual case (all are done for medically necessary reasons) then we wouldn't have all the other BS trotted out, such as rape or incest (less than .05 could EVER possibly be for this reason.

Breathe. That’s not what I wrote.

A. - I am breathing.

2.  "a vast majority of abortions are done in the first trimester before viability" (which is exactly what you wrote) and, " the vast majority are for medically necessary reasons," (also exactly what you wrote.) 

No, a vast majority of abortions performed are simply because the woman and often the man does not want to bear the responsibility of raising a child.

Indeed. And those happen almost entirely in the first trimester. You are making our concordance seem like a disagreement.

This ought to be interesting, but I'll bite - How does refusing to accept responsibility for the consequence of action somehow qualify for the adjectives "medically necessary"?

Reproductive rights...HA...what a freaking joke!

Well that’s a non sequitur.

Yeah, the non-sequitur commenced by those labeling the act of murder as a "reproductive right." Typical BS trotted out by bots, and other gaslighting scumbags, found in or emanating from, your typical DARPA-funded server farms, primarily located in Ukraine.

15

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:55:49 AM »

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/94.102

Seems a crime victim is a person

You are just flat-out wrong.

So, there you have it.

An unborn fetus is a person.

In Citizens United v. FEC, the Supreme Court asserted that corporations are people. Seems like a lot of things can be a person. Until such time that States out-and-out ban all abortions with no exceptions, all abortions are crimes against victims/persons?

If the mother dies and her death could have been prevented if she aborted, yet a law states that abortion under any circumstances is a crime, is the mother not a person, a victim? Who deserves to live, the Mother or the fetus?

Yeah, if a woman is found to be giving birth to a corporation, you (and I) would find it okay to kill it.

You, probably due to your far-left political view.

Yes, corporations can also be victims of physical harm.

You have no point in bringing this up.

16

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:23:28 AM »

As we admit that it is a complicated issue it’s also important to remember that the vast majority of abortions are done in the first trimester before viability and that the small percentage that are done after, the vast majority are for medically necessary reasons and the tiny percentage of those that aren’t could likely be greatly reduced by access to abortion, contraception and better sex education.

If what you write is the actual case (all are done for medically necessary reasons) then we wouldn't have all the other BS trotted out, such as rape or incest (less than .05 could EVER possibly be for this reason.

No, a vast majority of abortions performed are simply because the woman and often the man does not want to bear the responsibility of raising a child.

Reproductive rights...HA...what a freaking joke!

17

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 11:17:43 AM »

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/94.102

Seems a crime victim is a person

You are just flat-out wrong.

So, there you have it.

An unborn fetus is a person.

This is just so lazy. You're telling me I'm wrong for pasting a literal law that explicitly excludes abortions and pretending like you understand legal terms better than people who write the laws.

Lazy?

The source I posted is a legal source, defining what a victim is.

A victim is a person, period, end of sentence.

That means when an abortion happens, a person is killed.

You have to define first whether a fetus is a ‘person’ or not. Then you can make the claim that when an abortion happens, a person is killed. That’s pretty much the crux of the whole issue; is a fetus a person at 6 weeks gestation? 12 weeks? 24 weeks? At conception?

The law already defines it.

If you murder women who are pregnant, you are guilty of two counts of murder.

Pretty clear cut.

It is only philosophical and intellectual dishonesty that allows for the mental reservation and equivocation evident in your written gymnastics.

Once you’ve defined that, then comes the sticky wicket around exceptions for the mothers health & rape and incest. And perhaps even viability of the fetus.

The easy out is a person exists at conception and there are no exceptions, all abortions under any circumstances are forbidden. Is that where you are?

I understand some people's need to have their bloodlust satisfied, regardless of what others know to be just and moral.

That is where I am.

18

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 30, 2022, 08:15:58 AM »

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/94.102

Seems a crime victim is a person

You are just flat-out wrong.

So, there you have it.

An unborn fetus is a person.

This is just so lazy. You're telling me I'm wrong for pasting a literal law that explicitly excludes abortions and pretending like you understand legal terms better than people who write the laws.

Lazy?

The source I posted is a legal source, defining what a victim is.

A victim is a person, period, end of sentence.

That means when an abortion happens, a person is killed.

19

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 29, 2022, 08:49:12 PM »

Also for a fun statistic, the number one cause of death for pregnant women is homicide. A lot of women don't know they're even pregnant by six weeks (which is the ban limit in TN now). Let's watch those homicides go up when women are forced to carry unwanted pregnancies.

Unremarkably, the perp would face TWO counts of homicide. Are you arguing the charge for the second should be dropped because no human was killed?

Can't believe someone made a throwaway just to say that smh
The consent of the pregnant woman makes the entire difference.

So anyone can determine the legal definition of a person at any given moment?

Yeah, that seems totally cool.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law that recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence.

*Note that is says legal victim, not legal person.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/94.102

Seems a crime victim is a person

You are just flat-out wrong.

So, there you have it.

An unborn fetus is a person.

20

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: June 28, 2022, 03:22:40 PM »

People that think such thoughts should be neutered or spayed.

Forcibly?

Of course not.

There are many ways to avoid the possibility of procreation.

Essentially, you presented a bunch of fables decrying the removal of the carte blanche option of satisfying the bloodlust.