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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2017, 02:48:14 AM »
The Round Earth is far too large to see curvature like that. If you could see vertical curvature, you should be able to see horizontal curvature on the horizon.

This objection is refuted on Metabunk.

Quote from: Metabunk admin
People have asked why the curve is so apparent in one direction, but not in the other. The answer is compressed perspective. Here's a physical example:


That's my car, the roof of which is slightly curved both front to back and left to right. I've put some equal sized chess pawns on it in two straight lines. If we step back a bit and zoom in we get:


Notice a very distinct curve from the white pieces, but the "horizon" seems to barely curve at all.

Similarly in the front-back direction, where there's an even greater curve:


If the pieces were actually level, placed on a similar length line:


Then straight lines would remain straight, and it would look like this, even with extreme perspective compression.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2017, 02:55:44 AM »
You do realize that the top of that car isn't the surface of a sphere or equally curved in all directions, right?

There is more curvature on that roof front to back than there is from left to right.

Also, the camera is deceptively zooming in and only capturing the first two horizontal pieces; not the entire length.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 03:50:53 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Sushi

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2017, 03:00:41 AM »
]

What do you think, Guest? Good shit, or bunk shit?
[/quote]
That's good shit man.
Amazing video.
Ultimate proof.
Thanks

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2017, 04:45:23 AM »
You do realize that the top of that car isn't the surface of a sphere or equally curved in all directions, right?

There is more curvature on that roof front to back than there is from left to right.

Yes, of course there is. The author says as much in the quoted post, and it's why he included photos taken along both directions. It is plain to see that the curve facing the camera is emphasized by the compressed perspective of the chess pieces compared to the other curve, in either direction, just as the curved surface of the Earth is emphasized by the power lines on Lake Pontchartrain compared to the horizon.

Readers, note that Tom is cherry-picking what he thinks the weak link is. He's no longer talking about the video, and he ignored the photographs of the chess pawns on a level surface. He'll nitpick, dodge, and deny until the cows come home, drawing out the argument because that's what denialists do.

Offline Horhang

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2017, 04:55:18 AM »
Here's some solid goodness:

Quote from: Metabunk
A classic experiment to demonstrate the curvature of a body of water is to place markers (like flags) a fixed distance above the water in a straight line, and then view them along that line in a telescope. If the water surface is flat then the markers will appear also in a straight line. If the surface of the water is curved (as it is here on Earth) then the markers in the middle will appear higher than the markers at the ends. Here's a highly exaggerated diagram of the effect by Alfred Russel Wallace in 1870:



This is a difficult experiment to do as you need a few miles for the curvature to be apparent. You also need the markers to be quite high above the surface of the water, as temperature differences between the water and the air tend to create significant refraction effects close to the water.

However Youtuber Soundly has found a spot where there's a very long line of markers permanently fixed at constant heights above the water line, clearly demonstrating the curve. It's a line of power transmission towers at Lake Pontchartrain, near New Orleans, Louisiana.


What do you think, Guest? Good shit, or bunk shit?

Why was this addressed to me?

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2017, 04:57:03 AM »
It's the forum code (you), but with [] instead of (). It shows everyone their own username.

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Offline juner

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2017, 06:02:54 AM »
Readers, note that Tom is cherry-picking what he thinks the weak link is. He's no longer talking about the video, and he ignored the photographs of the chess pawns on a level surface. He'll nitpick, dodge, and deny until the cows come home, drawing out the argument because that's what denialists do.

I'll ask you to stick to the arguments and keep the rants out of the upper fora, as well as the [you] tag, as it is confusing for those entering discussion.

One warning since you already have a previous ban. Next one will be a week off.


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Offline juner

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2017, 03:22:18 PM »
mmk

Ah, I see simple rules are obviously beneath you. Have a week off.

Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2017, 03:27:40 PM »
If you could see vertical curvature, you should be able to see horizontal curvature on the horizon.

why do you think this is true?  can you justify this claim beyond your assertion?
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline Havonii

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2017, 03:36:44 PM »
You do realize that the top of that car isn't the surface of a sphere or equally curved in all directions, right?

I agree, the car was a bad example, but let me just say, the earth isn't nice and round 'equally curved' as most of the population may think. the Earth was created by the collection and clumping of proto-planets, and so on, making the Earth look more like this:



And depending on where you are, the Earth may seem more extremely flat or extremely curved.

Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2017, 08:16:14 PM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2017, 09:52:54 PM »
You do realize that the top of that car isn't the surface of a sphere or equally curved in all directions, right?

I agree, the car was a bad example, but let me just say, the earth isn't nice and round 'equally curved' as most of the population may think. the Earth was created by the collection and clumping of proto-planets, and so on, making the Earth look more like this:



And depending on where you are, the Earth may seem more extremely flat or extremely curved.

I think "extremely" is pushing it a bit. The measurements in the source article talk about differences of ~20 or ~40 metres in the Earth's radius, so it's still fair to say that the Earth is a sphere to about 0.3% radially.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2017, 10:04:03 PM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Thork was right to question the very existence of those transmission lines, considering that the person who presented them as evidence was shown to be a liar.

You do realize that the top of that car isn't the surface of a sphere or equally curved in all directions, right?

I agree, the car was a bad example, but let me just say, the earth isn't nice and round 'equally curved' as most of the population may think. the Earth was created by the collection and clumping of proto-planets, and so on, making the Earth look more like this:

https://spaceyug.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/earth-image.jpg

And depending on where you are, the Earth may seem more extremely flat or extremely curved.

That image isn't showing actual terrain. Its a gravity discrepancy map. There isn't a huge impression into the earth near the coast of India. The sea level altitude is the same there. The levels of g are simply much less there according to gravimeters (which actually is a mystery that contradicts the Round Earth model), and this is a map which illustrates the discrepancies in g.

See: https://www.sciencealert.com/don-t-be-fooled-by-a-viral-gif-that-claims-earth-is-actually-lumpy-not-round
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 06:30:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2017, 10:26:08 PM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Thork was right to question the very existence of those transmission lines, considering that the person who presented them as evidence was shown to be a liar.
Well, having proven their existence, can we get back to how the existence of curvature shown in these photo's is explained in the FE hypothesis? I think it was pretty clearly demonstrated in the original thread and linked images that the only way to produce a look of a curve using this technique is for the curve to already exist.The forced perspective technique being used simply highlights and enhances a curve already there, but was shown to not create one where one didn't exist.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2017, 10:57:43 PM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Thork was right to question the very existence of those transmission lines, considering that the person who presented them as evidence was shown to be a liar.
Well, having proven their existence, can we get back to how the existence of curvature shown in these photo's is explained in the FE hypothesis? I think it was pretty clearly demonstrated in the original thread and linked images that the only way to produce a look of a curve using this technique is for the curve to already exist.The forced perspective technique being used simply highlights and enhances a curve already there, but was shown to not create one where one didn't exist.

Its a photoshop hoax that was used to win an argument. Thork has shown that pretty clearly. What more is there to explain?

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2017, 11:00:19 PM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Thork was right to question the very existence of those transmission lines, considering that the person who presented them as evidence was shown to be a liar.
Well, having proven their existence, can we get back to how the existence of curvature shown in these photo's is explained in the FE hypothesis? I think it was pretty clearly demonstrated in the original thread and linked images that the only way to produce a look of a curve using this technique is for the curve to already exist.The forced perspective technique being used simply highlights and enhances a curve already there, but was shown to not create one where one didn't exist.

Its a photoshop hoax that was used to win an argument. Thork has shown that pretty clearly. You also linked to a video of these lines on page 1 which does not show the curving. What more is there to explain?

Thork was shown to be lying. Saying the power lines absolutely don't exist. He didn't question their existence. He claimed, quite boldly, that they didn't exist. He also made some comment about him asking google to remove the images or something. (not bothering to go back) Thork also claimed the pic of the 3d model was used to create the scene. That is another lie. They created 2 models One flat and one curved. The video matched the curved pic. Finally, you claim it is photoshopped. I will forgive the fact that you don't know that Photoshop can't edit videos. Prove the video was edited. You don't seem to realize that the still from the video is zoomed in quite tightly. You're seeing miles of towers in that image.

So, what is your proof the video isn't real?
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
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Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2017, 09:26:43 AM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Thork was right to question the very existence of those transmission lines, considering that the person who presented them as evidence was shown to be a liar.
Well, having proven their existence, can we get back to how the existence of curvature shown in these photo's is explained in the FE hypothesis? I think it was pretty clearly demonstrated in the original thread and linked images that the only way to produce a look of a curve using this technique is for the curve to already exist.The forced perspective technique being used simply highlights and enhances a curve already there, but was shown to not create one where one didn't exist.

Its a photoshop hoax that was used to win an argument. Thork has shown that pretty clearly. What more is there to explain?
He claimed the towers didn't exist, and was shown to be wrong quite conclusively I thought. We have records of them being put up, we have multiple sources unrelated to flat Earth conjecture/debate showing they exist. They have been proven to exist without a doubt.

He appeared to claim (which you are now stating) that it was an editing job. But the 'proof' for this is inconclusive at best. Especially when it's been shown the effect of the enhanced/magnified curvature can be created through simple camera and perspective tricks.

That leaves you with a few option if you are going to approach this honestly.
1) Present actual, conclusive and compelling evidence the curvature was faked in some manner. We currently have an image with no context, and a tweet with no context. Thork fabricated the context for both of these to fit the point/side he was presenting, but presented no evidence his context is correct.
2) Explain how this works on a flat Earth. How can there be an appearance of a curve upon a flat plane? This is what must be answered.

Alternatively do exactly what you just did and claim there is nothing left to discuss and leave the thread as Thork has done.

Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2017, 09:48:23 AM »
I'm confused, are we still at the point where Baby Thork says there are no power lines on Lake Pontchartrain?
Here are images taken for Google Street View, nothing to do with this particular person you claim is a hoaxster:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0768638,-90.402843,3a,75y,22.28h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVUWxPl82X6d4jV1OgR1Hsw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we agree these transmission lines exist?

Here's a zoom and slightly better angle:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0772081,-90.4033617,3a,15y,19.76h,89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNqcDcqaUoVmv-LDOCZ1kg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do you doubt it's possible to go there and get a photograph of higher quality than this?

Thork was right to question the very existence of those transmission lines, considering that the person who presented them as evidence was shown to be a liar.
Well, having proven their existence, can we get back to how the existence of curvature shown in these photo's is explained in the FE hypothesis? I think it was pretty clearly demonstrated in the original thread and linked images that the only way to produce a look of a curve using this technique is for the curve to already exist.The forced perspective technique being used simply highlights and enhances a curve already there, but was shown to not create one where one didn't exist.

Its a photoshop hoax that was used to win an argument. Thork has shown that pretty clearly. What more is there to explain?
He claimed the towers didn't exist, and was shown to be wrong quite conclusively I thought. We have records of them being put up, we have multiple sources unrelated to flat Earth conjecture/debate showing they exist. They have been proven to exist without a doubt.

He appeared to claim (which you are now stating) that it was an editing job. But the 'proof' for this is inconclusive at best. Especially when it's been shown the effect of the enhanced/magnified curvature can be created through simple camera and perspective tricks.

That leaves you with a few option if you are going to approach this honestly.
1) Present actual, conclusive and compelling evidence the curvature was faked in some manner. We currently have an image with no context, and a tweet with no context. Thork fabricated the context for both of these to fit the point/side he was presenting, but presented no evidence his context is correct.
2) Explain how this works on a flat Earth. How can there be an appearance of a curve upon a flat plane? This is what must be answered.

Alternatively do exactly what you just did and claim there is nothing left to discuss and leave the thread as Thork has done.

1) Just because someone posts a video does not make it credible evidence to suggest anything other than they have an objective in sharing the video. With the quality of editing software, lenses and capturing equipment, processors and video cards there is no rational reason to believe what you see in a video. In fact, the way we have classically tested these things is with personal observations. You have observed Youtube.com and believe what you see. That's fine, but for you to expect anyone else to "dissprove" what you see and therefore choose to believe in fact is of faulty logic. There is no way for me or anyone to disprove your beliefs. You may believe The Lion King was 100% actual footage - this does not mean I have (or can for that matter) to prove to you that it is not actual footage for it to be what it actually is. The earth may still be flat no matter how foolish we all become. It may be a ball, there may be cheese inside, the cake may in fact be the truth. (The cake is a lie!)

2)One explanation was given as to how this would happen on a flat earth. Video editing. It happens to be a very solid answer. Have you visited this site? Have you done any actual observing of this perspective?

Final thoughts) Thork certainly made himself look foolish early on in this thread, there is no question of that. I don't think that makes his points any more or less valid so attacking his foolishness does not give any further credibility to the OP video. Here is one more video for you to take a look at, it contradicts the other video that you believe already, now you have to make a choice. Both videos hold the same amount of water for me.

<iframe width="642" height="392" src="" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 09:52:01 AM by a_violet_fluid »

Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2017, 11:09:12 AM »
Sorry if this has been pointed out, But on the first picture / illustration of the first post on page one, is a little incorrect!

The two poles, should be leaning outwards at the top, not going straight up. This would bring the 'line of sight' lower too.

Again, sorry if thats been pointed out already ( and sorry if I am incorrect!)


Your video does obviously show curvature. We all know we can only trust ourselves though.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 03:21:28 PM by brinnbry022 »