Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« on: December 12, 2013, 03:36:14 PM »
http://gawker.com/teen-who-killed-four-people-got-off-on-probation-becaus-1480835092

The teen and his buddies stole alcohol and went for a drive which killed 4 people and injured several more.   He had a blood alcohol content of .24 and has Vallium in his system driving 70 in a 40.  Instead of the 20 years in prison the prosecutors are calling for, the teen has 10 years of probation and counseling.  This is thanks to a defense of affluenza, or not having a sense of the consequences of his actions, which was apparently caused because he was never punished by his parents and was raised with the belief that money will protect you.  Good job Texas legal system for reinforcing that terrible belief.

Rama Set

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 03:56:50 PM »
Giving a teen a life sentence when their brains are not even physiologically mature enough (perhaps) to fully understand consequences is a bit harsh, but so is just probation.  I think it is a situation where there is no truly right answer unless you can somehow get a really accurate sense of their mens rea.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 04:01:42 PM »
Well, DUCK, I'm with you on this.

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 04:08:36 PM »
I saw this story on another forum, and the source there commented that a juvennile detention center offers the same counseling as his probation.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Defense-pushes-for-intensive-therapy-for-teen-in-drunken-crash-that-killed-4-235288101.html
I don't even care to find out what you're doing wrong, but I'm sure you're doing something wrong.

Rama Set

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 04:18:17 PM »
Well, DUCK, I'm with you on this.

Uh oh, Duck, the facist thinks you have a good idea.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 04:28:06 PM »
Let's not make this thread about Yaakov.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 04:31:37 PM »
Thank you, Saddam. To be honest, my views tend toward the moderate, except with the Israeli-Arab issue.

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Offline Lemon

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Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 04:36:27 PM »
He killed 4 people? Stick him on the chair, boys. Or give him half his life in prison.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 04:39:15 PM »
20 years is far from a life sentence, especially for a 16 year old.  By 16 you should have the cognitive ability to realize your actions have consequences, after all this is the age the US thinks you're mature enough to drive.  Kids make stupid decisions, but they need to face those decisions and their consequences whether they have been in trouble before or not.  If he weren't rich and had a skewed since of consequences because he was never disciplined by his parents he wouldn't be only receiving probation.

Rama Set

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »
Well 20 years is enough to radically transform your life, perhaps mark it forever, and I am not convinced that that is the most productive punishment.  I understand he killed 4 people and there should be some punishment, but saying he should have the cognitive ability, is not the same as he does have and that needs to be taken in to account for minors. 

You also seem to putting some of the blame at the parent's feet, which I think is appropriate in this case.  It is not entirely his fault as he does not know better, provided we take the assessment of his upbringing at face value.  So why push to have him punished as the sole perpetrator when you put some of the blame on the parents who are legally his guardians?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 05:28:16 PM »
He is clearly a hazard to society.  His punishment should be swift and painful.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 05:30:16 PM »
Would 5 years of juvie followed by 5 years of probation have been a more reasonable sentence in this case?  Probation alone seems like only a very small step up from what his parents would do.
I don't even care to find out what you're doing wrong, but I'm sure you're doing something wrong.

Offline model 29

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Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2013, 05:36:20 PM »
They should have locked him up and let his parents pay the expenses since they raised him to be a POS.  Now he's laughing at the slap on the wrist and counseling, which he probably won't pay attention to.  "You're right mom and dad, I just got away with murder lol."

It's too bad he isn't the one who ended up with the brain damage instead of his passenger.

It's also too bad he didn't hit a big tree first at 70 instead before ending 4 lives and ruining (depending on injuries) several others.

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 05:41:24 PM »
The defense deferred the blame on the parents, I don't agree with that and think any 16 year old who is not mentally handicapped knows that there are consequences to their actions.  He was consuming alcohol underage, under the influence behind the wheel,  driving recklessly by being almost double the speed limit, and 4 counts of vehicular homicide. More than probation is called for here.  Put him in jail for 20 with a parole option after 7 granted he attends therapy sessions while behind bars and continues for a few years while on probation following a parole.  A person with such a warped sense of reality is just a danger to society until he can realize the consequences, if that really is the case.

I truly believe that are just deflecting the blame to the parents to protect him from prison, and as such will not learn responsibility of his actions since mom and dad's money is bailing him out.

Rama Set

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 05:45:09 PM »
Well straight incarceration is not a very effective punishment but probation also does not seem to be enough does it?  I like Alchemist's proposal, and you can also count on the wrongful death lawsuit to take the parents to the cleaner.

When I was 16 I had friends who drank and drive as a matter of course, mostly because they were teenagers and although consequences could be rationalized, they did not mean much from an experience perspective.  None of my friends had discipline free parents either.  Saying this child (that is what he is) is a menace to society for one, albeit terrible event, is not a fair assessment.  Its not like the child is guilty of systematic or serial violence.  It was literally a one-time thing, and likely will remain that.

The defense deferred the blame on the parents, I don't agree with that and think any 16 year old who is not mentally handicapped knows that there are consequences to their actions.  He was consuming alcohol underage, under the influence behind the wheel,  driving recklessly by being almost double the speed limit, and 4 counts of vehicular homicide. More than probation is called for here.  Put him in jail for 20 with a parole option after 7 granted he attends therapy sessions while behind bars and continues for a few years while on probation following a parole.  A person with such a warped sense of reality is just a danger to society until he can realize the consequences, if that really is the case.

I truly believe that are just deflecting the blame to the parents to protect him from prison, and as such will not learn responsibility of his actions since mom and dad's money is bailing him out.

A teenager should not require a full adult appreciation of consequences to espcape the label of mentally handicapped.  It is not a rational position to hold.  Neither is that this person is a menace to society.  If there is no contrition, rehabilitation and then there is recidivism, then I would agree, but he should have a chance at redemption.

That being said, Duck, your proposal for sentencing does not seem beyond the pale, and completely blaming the parents should not be a complete defense unless of course, the parents were extraordinarily negligent.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 05:48:32 PM by Rama Set »

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2013, 05:52:01 PM »
Kids do incredibly stupid things because they have an immortality complex usually since they haven't been directly affected by their own mortality in a lot of cases.  This should not absolve them from the consequences.  I also doubt this will be a one the occurrence but that matter is purely conjecture either way.  All I'm really trying to get at is that money protected this kid when it shouldn't have been able to.

Rama Set

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2013, 05:53:26 PM »
Kids do incredibly stupid things because they have an immortality complex usually since they haven't been directly affected by their own mortality in a lot of cases.  This should not absolve them from the consequences.  I also doubt this will be a one the occurrence but that matter is purely conjecture either way.  All I'm really trying to get at is that money protected this kid when it shouldn't have been able to.

Yeah, hopefully the money disappears in a lawsuit.  If you have a court ruling that awful parenting were mitigating circumstances for the defendant, then the plaintiffs in a civil case should have a field day.

Offline model 29

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Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2013, 06:08:15 PM »
A teenager is brought up believing he can get away with criminal behavior with minimal consequences because he's rich.  He kills 4 people and injures several more.  His punishment is probation and counseling instead of a significant amount of time behind bars.

He now believes knows he can get away with criminal behavior with minimal consequences. 

Rama Set

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2013, 06:09:26 PM »
A teenager is brought up believing he can get away with criminal behavior with minimal consequences because he's rich.  He kills 4 people and injures several more.  His punishment is probation and counseling instead of a significant amount of time behind bars.

He now believes knows he can get away with criminal behavior with minimal consequences. 

That is conjecture that should probably be avoided.

Re: Teen let off the hook because of bad parenting
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2013, 06:47:53 PM »
Where's the justice?

Are the parents going to go to prison instead?