Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #160 on: June 13, 2018, 06:21:24 PM »
not sure why people are talking about balloons, etc.

NASA doesnt even hide the fact they are using high altitutude planes.  website says 70,000 foot cruising altitude.  and also says they use them to "test" satellite sensor data, lol, ok.  even says they can fly for 6,000 miles at 410 knots (470 mph).  geez, sure does sound like a satellite.  the one they show even is similar to ISS, i am sure its just a different version of the same plane:

.. but there's only two of them.

look at the second picture on that website the one on the right side of the page showing a pilot getting in the plane.  look at the large panel about him, looks just like the ISS picture's panel

Looks nothing like it.

What are you suggesting? That when I aim my satellite dish from the UK to the south, that there's one of these NASA planes floating around over Portugal, Malta, or Africa to fill in the signal?

ok, sure, there's only "two" of them, if you believe that i got some waterfront property to sell you.  there is a huge fleet of them.  why do you think NASA and all the other space agencies budgets are so big?

it does look like it, at least the picture i referenced.  Are you really thinking NASA will have a picture of the exact one??  wow.

this is in response to the ISS and other low/medium and geosynchronous satelittes , not the geostationary ones (directv, etc).  thats a different system and i have not studied up on those.  I can only address the satelittes the closer ones
My satnav shows the direction and movement of GPS satellites.  No doubt.

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #161 on: June 14, 2018, 12:04:01 AM »
ok, sure, there's only "two" of them, if you believe that i got some waterfront property to sell you.  there is a huge fleet of them. 

Hogwash. You're cherry-picking the pieces of the webpage that support you, and speculating variations on it to suit your viewpoint. NASA says they have these high-altitude planes. You believe that.  NASA says there's two of them. You disbelieve that and come out with unsupported assertion that there's many of them.  Where's your evidence  of more than two?

it does look like it, at least the picture i referenced. 

So you believe that picture, but not the other two in the webpage, which show the craft in flight? There's that selectiveness again. It looks NOTHING like an ISS solar panel. It's a pitched sunshade, to keep the pilot out of the sun while he boards the craft.....


Are you really thinking NASA will have a picture of the exact one??  wow.

Oh, wow - so they put up that webpage with a bunch of INEXACT ones, just to throw us off the scent? Really?

this is in response to the ISS and other low/medium and geosynchronous satelittes , not the geostationary ones (directv, etc).  thats a different system and i have not studied up on those.  I can only address the satelittes the closer ones

OK.

I used this site (https://in-the-sky.org/) to determine when to observe the ISS. It shows the path it will take across the sky, and also shows when it will disappear from view, as it goes into Earth's shadow. I look at this in advance, and it's never wrong. The ISS turns up, bang on time, every time. Never runs out of fuel, never deviates in its course, never varies from the path laid out in advance by the website.

I've even seen it twice in one evening, the two occurrences separated exactly by the published and predicted orbit time.

I've heard all the counter-arguments before - it's just a luminary, it's just a light in the sky, it's a plane/jet/balloon/hologram, etc etc. None of these fit with what I saw.

Got any new or less predictable ones?
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #162 on: June 14, 2018, 02:25:33 AM »
not sure why people are talking about balloons, etc.

NASA doesnt even hide the fact they are using high altitutude planes.  website says 70,000 foot cruising altitude.  and also says they use them to "test" satellite sensor data, lol, ok.  even says they can fly for 6,000 miles at 410 knots (470 mph).  geez, sure does sound like a satellite.  the one they show even is similar to ISS, i am sure its just a different version of the same plane:

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/news/FactSheets/FS-046-DFRC.html


look at the second picture on that website the one on the right side of the page showing a pilot getting in the plane.  look at the large panel about him, looks just like the ISS picture's panel

How long does it take an airplane travelling at 410 knots at 70,000 feet to cross the sky? How long does it take the ISS to cross the sky? Why are we able to predict exactly where the ISS will appear, day in and day out? http://www.isstracker.com/

Why can we never see two ISSs in the sky at the same time?


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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #163 on: June 14, 2018, 10:25:25 AM »
look at the second picture on that website the one on the right side of the page showing a pilot getting in the plane.  look at the large panel about him, looks just like the ISS picture's panel

Google image search "NASA ER-2 pilot"

Sunshade over cockpit, looks nothing like ISS solar panels;



Frame for sunshade



..and the frame again



...and the whole sunshade again

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #164 on: June 14, 2018, 12:30:46 PM »
I used this site (https://in-the-sky.org/) to determine when to observe the ISS. It shows the path it will take across the sky, and also shows when it will disappear from view, as it goes into Earth's shadow. I look at this in advance, and it's never wrong. The ISS turns up, bang on time, every time. Never runs out of fuel, never deviates in its course, never varies from the path laid out in advance by the website.

I've even seen it twice in one evening, the two occurrences separated exactly by the published and predicted orbit time.

I've heard all the counter-arguments before - it's just a luminary, it's just a light in the sky, it's a plane/jet/balloon/hologram, etc etc. None of these fit with what I saw.

Got any new or less predictable ones?

everything you are saying can be explained with it being a high altitude plane that has very long flight durations.  they keep a plane in the air constantly with the nuclear launch codes as well.  an airport is much more complicated and they are able to keep thousands of flights pretty close to on schedule.  you can go outside and see an airplane on a projected path at a given time as well. I understand you flatly deny flat earth and my opinions, but you should try and be more rational.  everything you noted can be explained easily, which i have done.
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Planes fall out of the sky all the time

Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #165 on: June 14, 2018, 12:33:58 PM »
Google image search "NASA ER-2 pilot"

i am about done going back and forth with you on this, you are grasping here.  yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?  do you really thing NASA and the Gov't are open source and all technology is available with a google search??!  shoot, i bet you can just pull up the specs/design on all our nuclear weapons as well? 
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #166 on: June 14, 2018, 12:52:14 PM »
everything you are saying can be explained with it being a high altitude plane that has very long flight durations.

Not consistent with what I saw. The ISS crossed my sky once, and then did it again, 90 mins or so later, moving in exactly the same direction as the first time. 90mins is not a 'very long flight duration'. Planes cannot cover that distance at that speed. The ISS is NEVER seen to change direction, nor go in an East-West direction. It's always going (roughly) West to East.

It wouldn't be possible for a plane to cross my sky, go back to its starting point, then cross my sky again, without either (1) going around the planet, or (2) changing direction and flying back to its starting point. If it did (2), then someone somewhere would have seen it do this. And why would it do this exclusively for me, at my observing position? If it did change direction out of my sight, it would have been in plain sight for someone somewhere else, surely?


"they keep a plane in the air constantly with the nuclear launch codes as well.  an airport is much more complicated and they are able to keep thousands of flights pretty close to on schedule.  you can go outside and see an airplane on a projected path at a given time as well."

I also see aircraft not going to schedule. I'm fairly close to an international airport, and when there's been disruption or emergency, I've seen stacks of planes in holding patterns around the airport. Nobody ever sees any deviation in the ISS trajectory. Never. Anywhere in the world. Besides which, the ISS is not "pretty close to on schedule" - it's bang on schedule, every day of the year. See the instances where amateur and pro photographers have used its "on schedule-ness" to capture it in transit over the sun and the moon.

I understand you flatly deny flat earth and my opinions, but you should try and be more rational.  everything you noted can be explained easily, which i have done.

No, you've merely introduced speculation about what you think COULD be done. You've provided no evidence it is actually done this way.

By all means, tell me which specifics I am being "irrational" about.
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #167 on: June 14, 2018, 12:55:20 PM »
Google image search "NASA ER-2 pilot"

i am about done going back and forth with you on this, you are grasping here.  yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?  do you really thing NASA and the Gov't are open source and all technology is available with a google search??!  shoot, i bet you can just pull up the specs/design on all our nuclear weapons as well?
No, it's not 100% guaranteed not possible. But you have yet to present a shred of evidence that such a plane exists beyond "Well, if it DID, it could totally do exactly what I'm saying." Do you not see the difference? You're the one grasping here. You have zero evidence of your claims of a high altitude plane that looks like the ISS. Multiple planes in fact. Yet you keep insisting that, just because there is a tiny sliver of a chance they could exist, you are absolutely positively right.

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #168 on: June 14, 2018, 12:55:28 PM »
i am about done going back and forth with you on this"

Well, that didn't take long ...

yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?

You're the one who claimed the sunshade "looked like an ISS panel" - all I'm doing is showing you that it really is JUST A SUNSHADE.

No, it's not impossible that there are more than two of these craft. But until you show that there are, it's (again) just speculation and "What if..." on your part.
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #169 on: June 14, 2018, 02:03:52 PM »
i am about done going back and forth with you on this"

Well, that didn't take long ...

yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?

You're the one who claimed the sunshade "looked like an ISS panel" - all I'm doing is showing you that it really is JUST A SUNSHADE.

No, it's not impossible that there are more than two of these craft. But until you show that there are, it's (again) just speculation and "What if..." on your part.

i have provided my proof and backup, go back and re-read my posts.  you are so quick to want to yell that you are right that you gloss over the posts and dont try to see the other side of the argument.  you ask for more clarification, i provide it, you then ignore it and keep yelling.
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #170 on: June 14, 2018, 02:10:25 PM »
Google image search "NASA ER-2 pilot"

i am about done going back and forth with you on this, you are grasping here.  yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?  do you really thing NASA and the Gov't are open source and all technology is available with a google search??!  shoot, i bet you can just pull up the specs/design on all our nuclear weapons as well?
No, it's not 100% guaranteed not possible. But you have yet to present a shred of evidence that such a plane exists beyond "Well, if it DID, it could totally do exactly what I'm saying." Do you not see the difference? You're the one grasping here. You have zero evidence of your claims of a high altitude plane that looks like the ISS. Multiple planes in fact. Yet you keep insisting that, just because there is a tiny sliver of a chance they could exist, you are absolutely positively right.

so you agree that its possible.  how can i prove a plane exists that they dont acknowledge exists?  are you asking me to try and hack into a government website in order to pull classified documents?  i mean come on guys.  High altitude, long duration planes are not some wacko conspiracy theory.  there are plenty of articles available that talk about the active design and development of unmanned solar powered planes that would have a theoretical unlimited flight time.

I get it, you believe in a round earth and satellites.  But the explanation i have provided is 100% possible and do-able.  can you at least admit that, or would doing that open the door to you potentially questioning everything?  its ok to be scared
Quote from: SiDawg
Planes fall out of the sky all the time

Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #171 on: June 14, 2018, 02:20:08 PM »
Google image search "NASA ER-2 pilot"

i am about done going back and forth with you on this, you are grasping here.  yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?  do you really thing NASA and the Gov't are open source and all technology is available with a google search??!  shoot, i bet you can just pull up the specs/design on all our nuclear weapons as well?
No, it's not 100% guaranteed not possible. But you have yet to present a shred of evidence that such a plane exists beyond "Well, if it DID, it could totally do exactly what I'm saying." Do you not see the difference? You're the one grasping here. You have zero evidence of your claims of a high altitude plane that looks like the ISS. Multiple planes in fact. Yet you keep insisting that, just because there is a tiny sliver of a chance they could exist, you are absolutely positively right.

so you agree that its possible.  how can i prove a plane exists that they dont acknowledge exists?  are you asking me to try and hack into a government website in order to pull classified documents?  i mean come on guys.  High altitude, long duration planes are not some wacko conspiracy theory.  there are plenty of articles available that talk about the active design and development of unmanned solar powered planes that would have a theoretical unlimited flight time.

I get it, you believe in a round earth and satellites.  But the explanation i have provided is 100% possible and do-able.  can you at least admit that, or would doing that open the door to you potentially questioning everything?  its ok to be scared
I said it's possible they have more than the 2 they claim to have, but I don't know, why do you appear to believe so fervently that said plane(s) exist. Is it because you require them to for the rest of your beliefs to work? Or because you have actual evidence they do? If the latter, why don't you present it? If the former, at least admit it so I can stop wasting my time debating groundless speculation here.

Possible is another story altogether. See the information posted earlier on the difficulty of using a lower altitude drone/vehicle (lower than stated height of ISS) to emulate the ISS to multiple viewers, without any being able to see more than one in the sky. As well, even at posted speed of the plane, it does not fly fast enough to emulate the ISS anyway. Your explanation does NOT work, but at least you appear to admit you have absolutely zero evidence for it. No point in debating against something that can only be very generously called a hypothesis.

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #172 on: June 14, 2018, 02:48:06 PM »
so you agree that its possible.  how can i prove a plane exists that they dont acknowledge exists? are you asking me to try and hack into a government website in order to pull classified documents?  i mean come on guys.  High altitude, long duration planes are not some wacko conspiracy theory.  there are plenty of articles available that talk about the active design and development of unmanned solar powered planes that would have a theoretical unlimited flight time.

... so all you have is "talk"?

But the explanation i have provided is 100% possible and do-able.  can you at least admit that, or would doing that open the door to you potentially questioning everything?

No, I disagree. Not possible and do-able, given my personal observations, and those of millions of others. Your "possible and do-able" doesn't fit, as I outlined above. So I don't admit your possibility.

Even if such a plane had unlimited flight time, the only way it could cross my sky twice in one evening is either to go around the planet (which it cannot do at plane speeds) or change direction. Since nobody sees the ISS change direction ..... ever .....  then logic suggests it's going around the planet at orbital speeds.

I also refer you back to my earlier replies in this thread, #2 to start with...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 03:03:48 PM by Tumeni »
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #173 on: July 28, 2018, 09:31:35 AM »
It is a high altitude aircraft. Looks as though it has wings to me.

Any stranger looking than









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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #174 on: July 28, 2018, 10:17:56 AM »
Cannot be a plane. Look at the many (hundreds of) videos of "ISS lunar/solar transit"; these events are predicted well in advance, for specific locations. It's not photographers looking up to the sky at random times.

The only way this could occur with this degree of precision is for the object to be an orbital spacecraft, unfettered by considerations of weather, atmospherics, fuelling, piloting/remote control, maintenance, and all the rest. An object with a consistent, predictable orbit, the path of which is known in advance.

Planes cannot do this.

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #175 on: July 28, 2018, 11:22:46 AM »
Cannot be a plane. Look at the many (hundreds of) videos of "ISS lunar/solar transit"; these events are predicted well in advance, for specific locations. It's not photographers looking up to the sky at random times.

The only way this could occur with this degree of precision is for the object to be an orbital spacecraft, unfettered by considerations of weather, atmospherics, fuelling, piloting/remote control, maintenance, and all the rest. An object with a consistent, predictable orbit, the path of which is known in advance.

Planes cannot do this.
You moved the goal posts. The objection was that it doesn't LOOK like an aircraft.

If you concede is looks like it could be an aircraft, we can go on to look at your objection.
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #176 on: July 30, 2018, 07:04:33 AM »
Google image search "NASA ER-2 pilot"

i am about done going back and forth with you on this, you are grasping here.  yes, thats an picture of the ER-2 airplane, great job.  Do you think its completely out of the realm that there is are multiple configurations of the plane, a newer version, more advanced versions that they wouldnt put on an internet page?  do you really thing NASA and the Gov't are open source and all technology is available with a google search??!  shoot, i bet you can just pull up the specs/design on all our nuclear weapons as well?
Flying at 20,000km for GPS or 400km for the ISS?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 07:16:46 AM by inquisitive »

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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #177 on: July 30, 2018, 07:51:12 AM »
The objection was that it doesn't LOOK like an aircraft.

Whose 'objection' was this? You said that it does, but I see nobody objecting that it doesn't...
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #178 on: July 30, 2018, 09:33:25 AM »
The objection was that it doesn't LOOK like an aircraft.

Whose 'objection' was this? You said that it does, but I see nobody objecting that it doesn't...

That's because the part I was replying to has been stripped out and sent to the dustbin.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10265.0
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Re: satellite hoax
« Reply #179 on: July 31, 2018, 09:48:07 PM »
I hope I'm not out of line here, because I skimmed over the last half of this thread... But I really wanted to say that I, too, have seen satellites with my naked eye. They appear as a star that is steadily moving across the night sky. It is easily distinguished from an airplane because airplanes look like flying cars in the night sky with their headlights. Can someone provide an alternative explanation to what the "moving star" is? (Again, sorry if I missed a previous post explaining this). I have also witnessed a space shuttle launch off of cape Canaveral when I was a kid. I can't say the exact moment it reached space because it was too far away from my perspective by the time it reached that altitude.
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