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Offline jroa

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2015, 07:14:24 AM »
Gravity is one of those things. Its effects have been tested and verified for centuries.

Is that why scientist need to make things up when their tests do not match their calculation, like for dark matter and dark energy?

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Offline alex

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 07:20:16 AM »
I like to back up dog's statements. Nothing is 100% certain, even my belief that the earth is round (although it is veeeeeery close to 100%).

I also would like to point out the simplicity of the 'theory of gravity' Just take the following equation:



It states the attractive, gravitational force between two masses 'M' and 'm' given a distance 'd' between them. With this simple equation, you can calculate:

- the motion of the planets in our solar system around the sun
- the motion of the planet's moos around the planets
- the motion of asteroids
- the motion of comets
- the motion of satellites around the earth
- the motion of probes travelling through our solar system
- solar eclipses
- lunar eclipses

I even did these calculations myself on a computer. They worked! So try it yourself!

However, this equation does not hold when including other forces (as this equation only describes the gravitational force). Low-earth satellites are decelerated by the earth's atmosphere and smaller objects in the solar system experience a small force from the particle wind coming from the sun. And for much greater distances, one has to consider cosmological effects.

But for all the 'basic' things we observe, like the moon, the sun, sunset, sunrise, eclipses, position of planets etc., the only equation you need is the one posted on top of this thread. No need for strange, complicated and unexplainable movements of the stars and planets over the 'flat' earth. Just this simple and elegant equation to explain almost everything you see on the sky!



Ghost of V

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 07:23:45 AM »
alex, you're not addressing jroa's question.

Why should we trust any of this when your own "top" scientists have to resort to making things up to explain gravity? Where is the evidence for dark matter? What even is that?

Perhaps when your theory is COMPLETELY verifiably, then we might be able to agree with it. I just can't take a theory seriously when it has made up god particles with no evidence present.

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Offline alex

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 07:26:51 AM »
No theory is completly verifiable. But you can make experiments to be sure on a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% level or something! That is called 'science'.

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Offline jroa

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 07:31:13 AM »
No theory is completly verifiable. But you can make experiments to be sure on a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% level or something! That is called 'science'.

You mean, they see effects of something, then make up a theory, and when the theory does not match reality, they just make stuff up to fill in the gaps, right? 

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Offline alex

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 07:42:08 AM »
You are mistaken.

Scientists see the effects of something. Then they make up a theory, and develope experiments to verify this theory.

Then it might happen that scientists see some effect (with an experiment) which deviates from the theory (e.g. very precise measurements, experiments in a special environment etc). These scientists conclude, that the original theory does not explain everything they observe with this experiment.

But instead of making stuff up, scientists try to develop a better theory, that explained everything observed so far (all observations with 'old' experiments must hold, of course), but which also explains the new observed effects.

Based on that, they develop new experiments to verify the new theory. And so on.

To my knowledge there is currently no theory available that explains everything. But all observations in everyday's life (including astronomical observations) can be explained by a set of consistent theories to very high precision.

As a matter of fact, you would not be able to use a computer if there is no suitable theory to explain electricity, semi-conductors, nano technology, etc

Thork

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 07:14:28 PM »
Not keen on gravity. It is the 'theory of gravity' after all. It isn't scientific fact. No gravity particle has been found, you'd think by now they'd have found it. They know how it should behave, the energy range it should live, have given it a name (graviton), have built a multi-billion euro collider to find it and despite it being everywhere at all times on earth, its not there. Something smells a bit fishy to me.

Since when does a force need a particle?

Magnetic fields don't need magnetrons....
Please give me an example of an invisible force that doesn't use a particle. Magnetic fields don't need magnetrons but they are pretty darn dependant on electrons.

Gravity is not a fact. Hence 'the theory of gravity'.

True. Nothing is fact. We can never say we know something for sure 100%, but we can say that we're reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally sure about something. Gravity is one of those things. Its effects have been tested and verified for centuries.

The beauty of the scientific method is that since we're never 100% certain about anything, there is always the possibility to disprove something. So why don't you disprove gravity as we know it?

I'm sure there's a lot of money up for grabs if you can back up your talk with some walk...
Einstein already provided an alternative ... he called it the equivalence principle.

Even mainstream scientists are questioning gravity and how it works. http://phys.org/news/2006-12-alternative-theory-gravity-large-formation.html
I am at a loss as to why you may be shocked that I might also have doubts. It's just not a theory I am happy with. I think there are better explanations.

Offline AMann

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2015, 08:59:56 PM »
ahhh... the age old misunderstanding of the definition of a scientific theory.

Understandable why so many get confused with the word. In the vernacular, theory refers to a guess. In mathematics (and invariable, theoretical physics since it almost exclusively uses mathematics, a theory is a mathematical possibility based on calculation. In science however, a theory is a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

In simple terms, a scientific theory is an explanation of a scientific fact. The theory is telling you what the scientific fact is and giving the best explanation based on the evidence we have so far.

Atomic theory tells us the fact that atoms make up everything around us that we see and the explanation of how atoms are made up, held together and interact with each other. The theory evolves as more information is acquired, like the discovery of sub-atomic particles and quantum particles. In spite of finding particles smaller than atoms that make up the atoms themselves, the atomic theory wasn't discarded, it was enhanced and evolved to include the new data.

Molecular theory tells us the fact that atoms bind together in specific ways to create molecules and the explanation of how molecules are bound together through different bonds and how they interact with each other. The theory will continue to be modified as new information is discovered, but the likelihood that any discovery will change the fact of the existence of molecules is next to nothing.

Similarly, the theory of gravity tells us the fact that there is gravity (it has been demonstrated for centuries - we even have laws of gravity which are mathematical relationships of how celestial bodies interact with each other which accurately explain the relationships between planets and their moons, the planets revolving around the sun, etc) and gives us the best explanation of how it works based on our current information. There is a lot we do not understand about how gravity works right now, which is why some scientists are trying to come up with new ideas on how gravity interacts, but the likelihood that any new discovery will change the scientific fact of gravity is next to nothing.


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Offline jroa

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2015, 09:12:01 PM »
Similarly, the theory of gravity tells us the fact that there is gravity (it has been demonstrated for centuries - we even have laws of gravity which are mathematical relationships of how celestial bodies interact with each other which accurately explain the relationships between planets and their moons, the planets revolving around the sun, etc) and gives us the best explanation of how it works based on our current information. There is a lot we do not understand about how gravity works right now, which is why some scientists are trying to come up with new ideas on how gravity interacts, but the likelihood that any new discovery will change the scientific fact of gravity is next to nothing.



You seem to be ignoring the fact that the theory of gravity falls apart at any level outside of a star system.  It seems awfully convenient for you to leave that part out of your lecture. 

Offline AMann

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2015, 11:11:27 PM »



You seem to be ignoring the fact that the theory of gravity falls apart at any level outside of a star system.  It seems awfully convenient for you to leave that part out of your lecture.
[/quote]

You are incorrect in your statement. While I did not mention anything outside of a star system, that does not mean that the laws of gravitation fail when you look at the bigger picture. On the contrary, the laws of gravitation work well enough that we are able to calculate the relative size of the Milky Way's central black hole based on the stars orbiting it. Even when calculating the effects of gravity between galaxies, the mathematics works pretty well.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2015, 02:50:36 AM »
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the theory of gravity falls apart at any level outside of a star system.
Actually, it doesn't.  The fact that galaxies don't move as expected simply proves that there is more to galaxies than is readily observable.  That sounds more like a successful theory rather than a flawed one.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Dog

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2015, 07:08:56 AM »
Is that why scientist need to make things up when their tests do not match their calculation, like for dark matter and dark energy?

Do you want to shift the topic to dark matter? We can do that. I'm also very skeptical about dark matter. It's not really something we're sure about, but it fits the bill for now. I think it's temporary until we gain better understanding of some advanced physics in our universe. It's probably close though, and it makes sense, kind of the "anti"-gravity.

But if you want to continue talking about gravity though, we can do that too. Gravity is about 100x more concrete than dark matter theory, its effects are easily observable throughout our universe, and calculations done with it are always spot on.

Why should we trust any of this when your own "top" scientists have to resort to making things up to explain gravity?

Nobody is making things up to explain gravity.
Scientists did have to 'create' dark matter/energy to explain missing mass in our universe though, if that's what you're referring to. And skepticism on it is natural, considering it's still a heavily researched area.

Where is the evidence for dark matter? What even is that?

Read up. Over 100 references at the bottom too if you want to get into some dense scientific papers too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

Perhaps when your theory is COMPLETELY verifiably, then we might be able to agree with it. I just can't take a theory seriously when it has made up god particles with no evidence present.

No god particles here, you're thinking of the Higgs Boson.

Gravitational theory? Gravity doesn't need particles.
Dark matter theory? Dark matter evidence is observational from our universe. Definitely less established theory than gravity though if that's what you're getting at.

In any case, if you think it's possible for a theory to be 'COMPLETELY verifiably' then you've been misled. Anything can be disproved. Even the most fundamental building blocks of physics. As long as you have the evidence to back it up.
Welcome to science.

Offline Dog

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2015, 07:23:27 AM »
Please give me an example of an invisible force that doesn't use a particle. Magnetic fields don't need magnetrons but they are pretty darn dependant on electrons.

Magnetic force? No particle needed.
Particle needed to generate electric field = electron.

Gravitational force? No particle needed.
Particle needed to generate gravitational field = any atom.

Einstein already provided an alternative ... he called it the equivalence principle.

That's an alternative way to simulate the same force. That is not an alternative to the Theory of Gravity, which is a very solid theory that has proven to be correct in many many calculations/experiments throughout the centuries.

Even mainstream scientists are questioning gravity and how it works. http://phys.org/news/2006-12-alternative-theory-gravity-large-formation.html
I am at a loss as to why you may be shocked that I might also have doubts. It's just not a theory I am happy with. I think there are better explanations.

The alternative theories for gravity are not ground breaking. They do not support FEF in any way.
If one of the alternatives (MOND or TeVeS) get accepted by the scientific community, they would tweak our understanding of the universe at a large scale or at high accelerations, not the Earth as we know it. The Earth will continue to be a sphere and there will always be a force that attracts you to it, no matter what you call it or how you tweak the theory.

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2015, 08:09:33 AM »
One of the best threads on the subject.


alex wrote:

It states the attractive, gravitational force between two masses 'M' and 'm' given a distance 'd' between them.

But it is not attractive, not now, not in the past, not ever in the future.

Gases do not obey an attractive gravitational law:

SEMIDIURNAL CHANGES IN BAROMETRIC PRESSURE

The weight of the atmosphere is constantly changing as the changing barometric pressure indicates. Low pressure areas are not necessarily encircled by high pressure belts. The semidiurnal changes in barometric pressure are not explainable by the mechanistic principles of gravitation and the heat effect of solar radiation. The cause of these variations is unknown.


“It has been known now for two and a half centuries, that there are more or less daily variations in the height of the barometer, culminating in two maxima and two minima during the course of 24 hours. The same observation has been made and puzzled over at every station at which pressure records were kept and studied, but without success in finding for it the complete physical explanation. In speaking of the diurnal and semidiurnal variations of the barometer, Lord Rayleigh says: ‘The relative magnitude of the latter [semidiurnal variations], as observed at most parts of the earth’s surface, is still a mystery, all the attempted explanations being illusory.’”


One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m. The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations. If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.




GASES IN THE ATMOSPHERE DO NOT OBEY AN ATTRACTIVE GRAVITATIONAL LAW

The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights. The explanation accepted in science is this: “Swift winds keep the gases thoroughly mixed, so that except for water-vapor the composition of the atmosphere is the same throughout the troposphere to a high degree of approximation.”  This explanation cannot be true. If it were true, then the moment the wind subsides, the nitrogen should stream upward, and the oxygen should drop, preceded by the argon. If winds are caused by a difference in weight between warm and cold air, the difference in weight between heavy gases high in the atmosphere and light gases at the lower levels should create storms, which would subside only after they had carried each gas to its natural place in accordance with its gravity or specific weight. But nothing of the kind happens.

When some aviators expressed the belief that “pockets of noxious gas” are in the air, the scientists replied:

“There are no ‘pockets of noxious gas.’ No single gas, and no other likely mixture of gases, has, at ordinary temperatures and pressures, the same density as atmospheric air. Therefore, a pocket of foreign gas in that atmosphere would almost certainly either bob up like a balloon, or sink like a stone in water.”

Why, then, do not the atmospheric gases separate and stay apart in accordance with the specific gravities?


Ozone, though heavier than oxygen, is absent in the lower layers of the atmosphere, is present in the upper layers, and is not subject to the “mixing effect of the wind.” The presence of ozone high in the atmosphere suggests that oxygen must be still higher: “As oxygen is less dense than ozone, it will tend to rise to even greater heights.”  Nowhere is it asked why ozone does not descend of its own weight or at least why it is not mixed by the wind with other gases.


Liquids do not obey an attractive gravitational law:

Over the oceans, the gravitational pull is greater than over the continents, though according to the theory of gravitation the reverse should be true; the hypothesis of isostasy also is unable to explain this phenomenon. The gravitational pull drops at the coast line of the continents. Furthermore, the distribution of gravitation in the sea often has the peculiarity of being stronger where the water is deeper. “In the whole Gulf and Caribbean region the generalization seems to hold that the deeper the water, the more strongly positive the anomalies.”

As far as observations could establish, the sea tides do not influence the plumb line, which is contrary to what is expected. Observations on reservoirs of water, where the mass of water could be increased and decreased, gave none of the results anticipated on the basis of the theory of gravitation.


Solids do not obey an attractive gravitational law:

Dr Kozyrev's experiments began in the 1950s and were conducted since the 1970s with the ongoing assistance of Dr V. V. Nasonov, who helped to standardise the laboratory methods and the statistical analysis of the results. Detectors using rotation and vibration were specially designed and made that would react in the presence of torsion fields, which Kozyrev called the "flow of time".

It is important to remember that these experiments were conducted under the strictest conditions, repeated in hundreds or in many cases thousands of trials and were written about in extensive mathematical detail. They have been rigorously peer-reviewed, and Lavrentyev and others have replicated the results independently.


According to the theory developed by N.A.Kozyrev, time and rotation are closely interconnected. In order to verify his theory, N.A.Kozyrev conducted a series of experiments with spinning gyroscopes. The goal of these experiments was to make a measurement of the forces arising while the gyroscope was spinning. N.A.Kozyrev detected that the weight of the spinning gyroscope changes slightly depending on the angular velocity and the direction of rotation. The effect he discovered was not large, but the nature of the arising forces could not be explained by existing theories. N.A.Kozyrev explained the observed effect as being the manifestation of some "physical properties of time".



In Dr. Bruce DePalma's Spinning Ball Experiment, a ball spinning at 27,000 RPM and a non-spinning ball were catapulted side-by-side with equal momentum and projection angle. In defiance of all who reject the ether as unrealistic, the spinning ball actually weighed less, and traveled higher than its non-spinning counterpart.


DePalma and his assistants were experts for photograph recording of high speed motions. In 1974 they studied parabolic curves of bodies thrown upward, using ball bearings and catapults. Ball bearings were put into rotation before start and also not-rotating likely objects were used for comparison. In 1977 these experiments were repeated by most precisely working equipment and Bruce DePalma published paper entitled ´Understanding the Dropping of the Spinning Ball Experiment´. His astonishment clearly is expressed, e.g. by this section:

Basically the spinning object going higher than the identical non-rotating control with the same initial velocity, and, then falling faster than the identical non-rotating control; present a dilemma which can only be resolved or understood -- on the basis of radically new concepts in physics -- concepts so radical that only the heretofore un-understood results of other experiments, (the elastic collision of a rotating and an identical non- rotating object, et al.), and new conceptions of physics growing out of the many discussions and correspondence pertaining to rotation, inertia, gravity, and motion in general.

It CANNOT be explained without the ether concept: the flagrant violation of Newton's laws, means that for the same mass, the same supposed law of universal gravitation, the spinning ball actually weighed less.


http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,50942.msg1248776.html#msg1248776

(Mountainous masses do not exert the gravitational pull expected by the theory of gravitation)

Offline Dog

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2015, 08:53:54 AM »
alex wrote:

It states the attractive, gravitational force between two masses 'M' and 'm' given a distance 'd' between them.

But it is not attractive, not now, not in the past, not ever in the future.

Stopped reading right there.

Jump............ what happens?

Offline AMann

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2015, 08:29:21 PM »


But it is not attractive, not now, not in the past, not ever in the future.

Gases do not obey an attractive gravitational law:

SEMIDIURNAL CHANGES IN BAROMETRIC PRESSURE

The weight of the atmosphere is constantly changing as the changing barometric pressure indicates. Low pressure areas are not necessarily encircled by high pressure belts. The semidiurnal changes in barometric pressure are not explainable by the mechanistic principles of gravitation and the heat effect of solar radiation. The cause of these variations is unknown.


“It has been known now for two and a half centuries, that there are more or less daily variations in the height of the barometer, culminating in two maxima and two minima during the course of 24 hours. The same observation has been made and puzzled over at every station at which pressure records were kept and studied, but without success in finding for it the complete physical explanation. In speaking of the diurnal and semidiurnal variations of the barometer, Lord Rayleigh says: ‘The relative magnitude of the latter [semidiurnal variations], as observed at most parts of the earth’s surface, is still a mystery, all the attempted explanations being illusory.’”


One maximum is at 10 a.m., the other at 10 p.m.; the two minima are at 4 a.m. and 4 p.m. The heating effect of the sun can explain neither the time when the maxima appear nor the time of the minima of these semidiurnal variations. If the pressure becomes lower without the air becoming lighter through a lateral expansion due to heat, this must mean that the same mass of air gravitates with changing force at different hours.




GASES IN THE ATMOSPHERE DO NOT OBEY AN ATTRACTIVE GRAVITATIONAL LAW

The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights. The explanation accepted in science is this: “Swift winds keep the gases thoroughly mixed, so that except for water-vapor the composition of the atmosphere is the same throughout the troposphere to a high degree of approximation.”  This explanation cannot be true. If it were true, then the moment the wind subsides, the nitrogen should stream upward, and the oxygen should drop, preceded by the argon. If winds are caused by a difference in weight between warm and cold air, the difference in weight between heavy gases high in the atmosphere and light gases at the lower levels should create storms, which would subside only after they had carried each gas to its natural place in accordance with its gravity or specific weight. But nothing of the kind happens.

When some aviators expressed the belief that “pockets of noxious gas” are in the air, the scientists replied:

“There are no ‘pockets of noxious gas.’ No single gas, and no other likely mixture of gases, has, at ordinary temperatures and pressures, the same density as atmospheric air. Therefore, a pocket of foreign gas in that atmosphere would almost certainly either bob up like a balloon, or sink like a stone in water.”

Why, then, do not the atmospheric gases separate and stay apart in accordance with the specific gravities?


Ozone, though heavier than oxygen, is absent in the lower layers of the atmosphere, is present in the upper layers, and is not subject to the “mixing effect of the wind.” The presence of ozone high in the atmosphere suggests that oxygen must be still higher: “As oxygen is less dense than ozone, it will tend to rise to even greater heights.”  Nowhere is it asked why ozone does not descend of its own weight or at least why it is not mixed by the wind with other gases.


Liquids do not obey an attractive gravitational law:

Over the oceans, the gravitational pull is greater than over the continents, though according to the theory of gravitation the reverse should be true; the hypothesis of isostasy also is unable to explain this phenomenon. The gravitational pull drops at the coast line of the continents. Furthermore, the distribution of gravitation in the sea often has the peculiarity of being stronger where the water is deeper. “In the whole Gulf and Caribbean region the generalization seems to hold that the deeper the water, the more strongly positive the anomalies.”

As far as observations could establish, the sea tides do not influence the plumb line, which is contrary to what is expected. Observations on reservoirs of water, where the mass of water could be increased and decreased, gave none of the results anticipated on the basis of the theory of gravitation.


Solids do not obey an attractive gravitational law:

Dr Kozyrev's experiments began in the 1950s and were conducted since the 1970s with the ongoing assistance of Dr V. V. Nasonov, who helped to standardise the laboratory methods and the statistical analysis of the results. Detectors using rotation and vibration were specially designed and made that would react in the presence of torsion fields, which Kozyrev called the "flow of time".

It is important to remember that these experiments were conducted under the strictest conditions, repeated in hundreds or in many cases thousands of trials and were written about in extensive mathematical detail. They have been rigorously peer-reviewed, and Lavrentyev and others have replicated the results independently.


According to the theory developed by N.A.Kozyrev, time and rotation are closely interconnected. In order to verify his theory, N.A.Kozyrev conducted a series of experiments with spinning gyroscopes. The goal of these experiments was to make a measurement of the forces arising while the gyroscope was spinning. N.A.Kozyrev detected that the weight of the spinning gyroscope changes slightly depending on the angular velocity and the direction of rotation. The effect he discovered was not large, but the nature of the arising forces could not be explained by existing theories. N.A.Kozyrev explained the observed effect as being the manifestation of some "physical properties of time".



In Dr. Bruce DePalma's Spinning Ball Experiment, a ball spinning at 27,000 RPM and a non-spinning ball were catapulted side-by-side with equal momentum and projection angle. In defiance of all who reject the ether as unrealistic, the spinning ball actually weighed less, and traveled higher than its non-spinning counterpart.


DePalma and his assistants were experts for photograph recording of high speed motions. In 1974 they studied parabolic curves of bodies thrown upward, using ball bearings and catapults. Ball bearings were put into rotation before start and also not-rotating likely objects were used for comparison. In 1977 these experiments were repeated by most precisely working equipment and Bruce DePalma published paper entitled ´Understanding the Dropping of the Spinning Ball Experiment´. His astonishment clearly is expressed, e.g. by this section:

Basically the spinning object going higher than the identical non-rotating control with the same initial velocity, and, then falling faster than the identical non-rotating control; present a dilemma which can only be resolved or understood -- on the basis of radically new concepts in physics -- concepts so radical that only the heretofore un-understood results of other experiments, (the elastic collision of a rotating and an identical non- rotating object, et al.), and new conceptions of physics growing out of the many discussions and correspondence pertaining to rotation, inertia, gravity, and motion in general.

It CANNOT be explained without the ether concept: the flagrant violation of Newton's laws, means that for the same mass, the same supposed law of universal gravitation, the spinning ball actually weighed less.


http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,50942.msg1248776.html#msg1248776

(Mountainous masses do not exert the gravitational pull expected by the theory of gravitation)

Wow - nice rambling by someone who doesn't have a clue...

First of all, gases do follow the laws of gravitation. There is simply more at work than gravity as you would have learned from a high school chemistry class if you paid attention to the chapter on gas pressures. The atmosphere on Earth is gravitationally attracted to the Earth - that's why we have an atmosphere to begin with. Heavier gases have a greater force of attraction, which is why you find the heavier gases (Oxygen for example) closer to the Earth. The upper atmosphere contains only helium and hydrogen, which are much lighter gases. So, your statement "The ingredients of the air—oxygen, nitrogen, argon and other gases—though not in a compound but in a mixture, are found in equal proportions at various levels of the atmosphere despite great differences in specific weights." is an outright lie.

Funny that you should mention changes in barometric pressure and indicate that it "occurs in two maxima and two minima during the course of 24 hours"... did you know that tides also occur twice a day with 2 high tides and 2 low tides? Can you guess what causes tides? It's the gravitational pull of the Sun and the Moon on the Earth. Did you know that the Earth's atmosphere is also affected by the gravitational pull of our celestial neighbors? Now you do.

I am going to stop there... you wrote a lot more lies but it is clear to see just from this simple explanation of the atmosphere that you have no clue about what you are talking about. Please stop embarassing yourself.

Rama Set

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2015, 12:04:30 AM »
You mean, they see effects of something, then make up a theory, and when the theory does not match reality, they just make stuff up to fill in the gaps, right?

They create a hypothesis to explain their observation and test it. Yeah, you know, they do science.

What would you propose doing?

Rama Set

Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2015, 12:10:53 AM »
Magnetic force? No particle needed.
Particle needed to generate electric field = electron.

This is wrong. The electromagnetic force has a gauge boson which exchanges the force. It is called the photon. An electromagnetic field can be generated by any charged particle; electrons are the easiest to harness.

Quote
Gravitational force? No particle needed.
Incorrect. This is an unanswered question in physics.

Quote
Particle needed to generate gravitational field = any atom.

Or energy, or momentum.

Even mainstream scientists are questioning gravity and how it works. http://phys.org/news/2006-12-alternative-theory-gravity-large-formation.html
I am at a loss as to why you may be shocked that I might also have doubts. It's just not a theory I am happy with. I think there are better explanations.
Thork thinks that somehow showing other theories of gravity will prove gravity does not exist. Cute.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 07:51:03 AM by Rama Set »

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Offline juner

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2015, 01:18:56 AM »
The atmosphere on Earth is gravitationally attracted to the Earth - that's why we have an atmosphere to begin with.

So why does Mars not have an atmosphere?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Basic physics laws
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2015, 03:49:05 AM »
The atmosphere on Earth is gravitationally attracted to the Earth - that's why we have an atmosphere to begin with.

So why does Mars not have an atmosphere?
Mars does have an atmosphere.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.