1

Flat Earth Theory / Re: A paradox in SR

« on: February 26, 2025, 02:44:21 AM »

From a flat Earth perspective, some might argue against the validity of SR altogether. However, if we stick to the principles of SR, the string would indeed break due to length contraction. This paradox serves as an interesting thought experiment to understand the effects of relativistic physics.

Thank you, it is all about understanding the effects of relativistic physics.  John Bell even included in his book in a chapter called "How to teach Special Relativity".

The lack of understanding of some of the most basic concepts by people who believe they have a level of understanding good enough to develop a new theory that contradicts thousands of years of established science is kind of mind blowing. 

Stating that SR is a bunch of bunk made up to discredit flat earth while acknowledging that the two postulates of SR are valid is a perfedt example.  If you don't understand that every effect of SR flows from those two postulates, you don't understand anything about SR. 

The whole of UA is built on a misunderstanding of the equivalence principle.  It only applies locally, in the immediate vicinity of the observer and for short periods of time.  That makes all the difference. 

Assuming SR, then why does the string break in the frame attached to the accelerating rockets?  There is no length conractionm in that frame.

The lack of understanding isn't mind blowing if you consider the Dunning-Kruger effect; Tom being a prime example where he believes his level of competency and understanding is high but it's actually very low -- and he lacks the self-awareness to know this. 

2

Flat Earth Theory / Re: A paradox in SR

« on: February 24, 2025, 03:06:23 AM »

There's a well-known paradox in special relativity involving two rockets connected by a string, both accelerating equally and constantly. In an inertial frame relative to the rockets, they maintain a constant distance apart. The question is whether the string breaks. The most accepted answer is yes, due to length contraction.

I'm curious if the answer would be the same from a flat Earth perspective. If it differs, why? If it is the same, is length contraction also the reason? A couple of things to consider are that since this is special relativity, gravity isn't a factor, and whether the string breaks isn't relative. If it breaks or not in the inertial frame, the result must be the same in the accelerating frame.

Flat Earthers on this site believe that space travel is an elaborate hoax and a scam put on by private companies like SpaceX and government agencies like NASA, and so one of the initial replies you'll likely get is that because space travel is fake, your rocket paradox can't be tested.   

3

Flat Earth Media / Re: Whiting to Chicago, Aerial Footage

« on: February 22, 2025, 09:31:38 PM »

Whiting to Chicago, distance 15 miles as the crow flies
Footage captured by Timeless Aerial Photography

A few years ago, I lived in St. Joseph, Michigan right on the other side of Lake Michigan to Chicago.

In the clear days and evenings standing on Silver Beach and even some of the sand dunes, the upper portions of the tallest buildings and skyscrapers in Chicago can be seen, but not the bases, due to Earth's curavture.

Lower level buildings in Chicago like the Navy Pier and the old Meigs Field are also not really visible from St. Joseph, also due to the Earth's curvature.       

4

Flat Earth Community / Re: An updated simplified TFES Animation Model

« on: January 20, 2025, 09:24:14 PM »

what's with the large number of people denying the recent antarctica trip as faked?

I doubt it's actually "a large number" - the Twitter/YouTube crowd has always been pretty loud, but it's a small group.

Months before The Final Experiment even took place, there were already "hostile" skeptics on this site and those on this site that were claiming that the venture likely consisted of some level of embezzlement.

To me, The Final Experiment wasn't so much a set of observations or experiments regarding the Sun, but rather a case study of what confirmation bias look like.

Many flat earthers have spent at least a decade promoting the flat earth belief and so I think The Final Experiment was only going to cause these folks to dig their heals in the ground further to protect their flat earth time "investment"     

Am predicting that in the next 10 years or so, at least one or a couple of flat earthers will be invited to travel to space. This will be TFE #2 and the same thing will happen all over again. The flat earthers that accept the trip will be called grifters and shills even before they go on the trip. And there will be suggestions of embezzlement. When they predictably report back curvature and that they were in space, it will be denied and all kinds of conspiracy theories will be put forward.   

5

Flat Earth Community / Re: An updated simplified TFES Animation Model

« on: January 19, 2025, 10:39:02 AM »

If it's generally true that the community has always accepted it, what's with the large number of people denying the recent antarctica trip as faked?

I'm sure he's correct that there's always been at least some person with some model that predicts a midnight sun, but the whole flat earth community accepting it? It just doesn't appear that way.

Tom didn't say the "whole" flat earth community has always accepted a Midnight Sun.
Tom's quoted as saying "this" flat earth community, which I guess would be anyone on this TFES membership forum.

Beyond this, my key interest is trying to make sure I understand how TFES animation model would work for an observer located at any point on the Antarctic Ice Ring looking due south at a Midnight Sun in December:

- the Sun in the current animation model moves in a Clockwise (East to West) direction.
- for an observer located at any point on the Antarctic ice wall looking due South, the Midnight Sun to them would also be moving East to West which when looking at a top view of the flat earth plane would be in a Counter-Clockwise direction.
- so essentially, you have the actual Sun moving Clockwise and at the same time a Midnight Sun located south of the Antarctic ice ring on the opposite side of the actual Sun moving in a Counter-Clockwise direction. Just trying to understand if this is correct.

- Also, would the same sunspots that are visible on the actual Sun also be visible on the Midnight Sun?     

6

Flat Earth Community / An updated simplified TFES Animation Model

« on: January 19, 2025, 04:21:17 AM »

In a recent post from Tom dated December 20, he said that "this community has always accepted the Midnight Sun in its models; the Antarctic midnight sun has been in flat earth models since at least the 1920's."

Based on this, I took the simplified animation model in the Wiki and highlighted what an observer in Antarctica would see when looking South at a Midnight Sun:
 
- When the actual Sun is on the other side of the flat earth plane and moving in a Clockwise direction, a Midnight Sun would be moving in a Counter-Clockwise direction (to an observer in Antarctica looking South) on the other side of the flat earth plane. Is this correct? Also, would the same sunspots visible on the actual Sun also be visible on the Midnight Sun?

7

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: January 08, 2025, 12:27:18 AM »

This is a 360° view; you can turn your camera and/or phone in all directions and watch in 360°.
This is a 10 hour (of 24 hour) continuous shot (I believe additional video's to be released to show the remaining 14 hours)

8

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: January 01, 2025, 05:22:56 PM »

While we're here, and in an attempt to get things on a more cordial footing, if you were to design a "final experiment" then what would it be? I don't think it's possible to design one which would really end all debate but is there one which in your mind would help to distinguish between the two models?

Was asking the same question to myself; I believe the outcome (no matter what experiment is designed - even sending FE'ers to space to orbit the Earth to observe Earth's curvature or shape) will be similar to "The Final Experiment" in that it will be labelled a scam, fakery done in a studio, or that the FE participants were grifters.

I also don't believe the majority of self-proclaimed FE'ers sincerely believe that the Earth is flat. Instead I believe that flat earth provides them with an avenue of expressing their contempt--disdain--skepticism with things like science, institutions, government agencies, or that which they might not fully understand.
       

9

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 26, 2024, 01:28:27 AM »

mahogany, not once in this quoted explanation did Tom mention a dome of solid glass extending entirely to the surface of a flat earth plane.

You do not need to keep repeating this strawman in thread after thread.

Here you go:
- This is a YouTube video that Tom has referenced before in another thread and refers to it again in his above post as "the magnifying dome demonstration."
- The model in the YouTube video that Tom references uses a solid piece of magnifying glass extending entirely to the surface of a flat earth plane. 

10

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 24, 2024, 09:50:47 PM »

It should be fun to watch what develops, here and elsewhere.

You may be in the wrong community then. It is a different Flat Earth community which says the Midnight Sun is impossible. This community has always accepted the Midnight Sun in its models and portrays several mechanisms in its materials, which relay that the Antarctic midnight sun has been in Flat Earth models since at least the 1920's. Even in the classic Monopole model, the magnifying dome demonstration for the seasons appears to make a midnight sun.

It's also plausible that our official celestial model for Flat Earth, the  EA Model, could be extended predict a midnight sun. If the light of the sun actually takes the shape of something similar to the closed loops of magnetic field flux lines, it could be that the earth is interrupting the natural path of the Sun's light and that the rays on a larger scale could loop around and appear to be coming from the opposite direction to a distant observer.

If we take one of the upwardly bending light diagrams in the link above and simply extend the loop of one of the rays which intersect with the earth, it loops around and appears to be coming from an opposite direction.



This isn't new, and I have my own questions about the particulars of how this dipole shape would appear, but the above appears to demonstrate that a midnight Sun is not an impossibility in current constructs.

As previously mentioned, the Magnifying Dome Demonstration is a poor and inaccurate representation of our Earth's atmosphere. It's a desktop demonstration that uses a solid piece of magnifying glass as an attempt to pass off how sunlight patterns could behave; but we know that our Earth's atmosphere isn't made of a solid piece of magnifying glass. Seems like you're lowering the FE bar in a big way as an attempt to have a theory. It would be as if a Round Earther launched a model rocket in their backyard and then posted a YouTube video claiming the experiment as evidence of rocket engines working (propelling) in a vacuum and when questioned about it's accuracy saying that it's just a desktop model. 

There seems to be so much going on with Electromagnetic Acceleration, closed loops of magnetic field flux lines, and the earth interrupting the natural path of the Sun's light where the rays on a larger scale are looping around and appear to be coming from the opposite direction to a distant observer that I think it would be worthwhile for the authors of TFES Wiki to update the basic animation model with an updated animation model. The updated animation model could show how this theory works, from season to season, and how an observer in Antarctica would appears to be seeing 24 hours of the Sun.

The updated animation should also include the the tracking of the Moon and it's path from season to season.

I think that if the authors updated the animation model in this respect and also added it within the EA description that it could be a good visual aid.

11

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 21, 2024, 02:41:16 PM »

You indeed created the quote "I agree with Pete" and then attributed it to me by replying to me: "You just wrote "I agree with Pete"."

It's so funny how obsessed you are with quote fixing. It's part of the old web forum culture, and it's nowhere neat as sinister as you describe it. You had so much time to learn how this place works, but, throughout so many years, across so many alts, you just can't let go of like 3 things.

You aren't unique or special in your prediction that this Antarctic trip would not end up really moving the needle in terms of RE theory or FE theory

And? How does that affect anyone I or anyone else has said here?

Old web forum culture... love that one.

12

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 20, 2024, 10:04:54 PM »

It's good to see that every prediction I've made in May turned out to be exactly correct.

You aren't unique or special...I predicted the same in this thread on June 1 and I believe most RE'ers and FE'ers knew the same would happen.

So, you didn't really predict anything.

You just wrote, "I agree with Pete," and thought that agreement (not a prediction) was an EARTh-SHAKING PRONOUNCEMENT, worthy of another post.

Looks like Action80 didn't read my post from Page 1, dated June 1.

I would absolutely love to. Why don't you link it and see if the link shows a post made on this thread on June 1, 2024.

Looks like Action80 is also creating "quotes" and then assigning them to members that never said such "quotes."

But, I guess this could have been predicted of Action80 as well.

I quoted direct posts made in this very thread.

I made no alterations to any of the language contained in those posts.

You are just a big liar.

- Go to Reply #14 of this thread. My post date is June 1, 2024.
- You indeed created the quote "I agree with Pete" and then attributed it to me by replying to me: "You just wrote "I agree with Pete"."

13

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 20, 2024, 05:14:51 PM »

It's good to see that every prediction I've made in May turned out to be exactly correct.

You aren't unique or special...I predicted the same in this thread on June 1 and I believe most RE'ers and FE'ers knew the same would happen.

So, you didn't really predict anything.

You just wrote, "I agree with Pete," and thought that agreement (not a prediction) was an EARTh-SHAKING PRONOUNCEMENT, worthy of another post.

Looks like Action80 didn't read my post from Page 1, dated June 1.
Looks like Action80 is also creating "quotes" and then assigning them to members that never said such "quotes."

But, I guess this could have been predicted of Action80 as well.
   

14

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 20, 2024, 01:26:25 PM »

It's good to see that every prediction I've made in May turned out to be exactly correct. Imagine how much real-world good these guys could have done with the money instead.

You aren't unique or special in your prediction that this Antarctic trip would not end up really moving the needle in terms of RE theory or FE theory, and that a conspiracy or a scam would be assigned as a reason to invalidate the experience.

I predicted the same in this thread on June 1 and I believe most RE'ers and FE'ers knew the same would happen.

With respect to Tom continuing to bring up the desktop magnifying dome experiment (in his above recent post) to explain how a 24 hour sun could be visible at any location on the flat Earth Antarctic ice wall ring, this continues to be a very sloppy conclusion or use of evidence. As I've said before, our atmosphere isn't made of solid glass and so using a solid piece of magnifying glass to simulate our atmosphere is by no means a valid approach. As I've also said before, it would be like a Round Earther launching a model rocket in their backyard and saying that such a "desktop" experiment can be used to explain how rockets work in a vacuum. I'm intrigued as to why there continues to be such a low bar or standard in the use of this magnifying dome.

15

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« on: December 18, 2024, 04:21:48 AM »

I kind of wish that this Flat Earther got an invitation to go to Antarctica to observe the 24 hours of sunlight.

16

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Political pundits be damned - why they were all wrong.

« on: November 26, 2024, 05:05:16 AM »

It's difficult to "get", because the core MAGA electorate refuses to respond to reason. Not the people here, mind you - it's more the sorts who vote for an increase in the prices of everyday goods because everyday goods are too expensive. (I'm sorry you'll have to deal with the fallout, especially so in a poor state.)

To assume that people like this are a vanishingly small minority that won't amount to anything is a necessary self-preservation instinct. I'm sure the libs don't consciously erase that group - they just fool themselves into thinking that the world they were birthed into isn't quite this flawed. Similarly, to preserve their sanity, they look for excuses. No, it was the women who didn't turn out to vote. Nay, it was the blacks! Someone, anyone, please - there has to be someone that can distract from the fact that the majority of Americans have fallen so far from grace.

Ah well, it's another 4-year mega-recession, then 4-8 years of incomplete recovery, and then we can have a maniac in power again. A cycle as old as the US of A itself.

I believe Trump (and the Majority of Americans) would agree with your comment that Americans have fallen from grace, which is exactly why he ran for a 2nd term and won. I think Americans want strength in the White-House vs. weakness which is what Biden/Harris were to the rest of the world; they were very weak leaders and push-overs. I would add that there also are some key factors which seem to have become recent trends or phenomena with culture:

1) The Woke Movement - in my opinion this has gone way too far and I believe Woke-ism is partly to blame for the reason why The Biden/Harris administration did nothing for border protection. They thought that by catering to illegals that illegals would eventually add to the bottom line Democratic voting population. (and, they also didn't want to offend anyone). I do think America has a border crisis and Trump's strong border policies will serve Americans better. I think we just need to treat everyone with respect BUT draw the line where it becomes obvious that the line is being crossed.

2) Everything has become about Race - shows on MSNBC like Joy Reid and the Reverend Al Sharpton do nothing but race baiting. And Morning Joe has become a joke. It really doesn't seem that there are anymore intellectual conversations to advance spirited debate and critical thought. You are either on one side or the other. And, these liberal media outlets are especially guilty in using Race and Gender to try to explain away their woes or misfortunes.

3) The American Public School Education system, specifically K-12. No need to say more.

4) Biden/Harris are push-overs and I think other Countries laugh behind our back because of this. Biden's cognitive state has declined and Harris does not really stand for anything. I think Trump will have learned from his mistakes from his 1st term and hone his approach for his 2nd term, including his cabinet posts.

5) The one disappointment I have with Trump winning is that it doesn't look like the Cuban embargo will be lifted anytime soon. I love smoking (Cuban) Cigars with a good coffee or an Old Fashioned Whiskey and am only able to purchase Cubans when I'm overseas.
 

17

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Political pundits be damned - why they were all wrong.

« on: November 22, 2024, 10:27:24 AM »

So lately, I've been watching a ton of MSNBC and CNN because I am enjoying observing the meltdowns over Trump's win. From Left Wing Liberal denial and disbelief, to the finger-pointing and blame, and to the Monday-morning quarterbacking.

It's been a classic case study of what happens when media outlets live in an echo chamber, surrounding themselves with only like-minded people to the point that their observations are totally delusional, lacking situational awareness. And Fox News is equally to blame for living in an echo-chamber; they just ended up on the winning side.

The election was never about electing the candidate that was the most righteous and good...it was never about trying to elect the next Pope. It was all about electing the next candidate that would right the ship and put America back on track to better prosperity and peace. That's why voters felt like Trump was the better candidate.

With Kamala Harris, there was a general feeling that one never really knew what she stood for and that she was trying too hard to be everything to everyone. That was her biggest mistake and I think people saw through that and resented it. That's why you see all of her word salads. It also seemed as though a big part of her campaign was "Donald Trump bad, Me good .... so vote for me".

And, although Donald Trump does indeed ramble, people at least knew what he stood for. You kind of knew where he was on all of the critical topics and so I think people gravitated to that a lot more.

I think most people are also fed up and done with all of the woke behavior. Like, it's gone way too far. And so, this was a repudiation of that.

Left Wing media is now blaming Harris' loss on white women voters, Latino men voters, etc. They soooo don't get it. 
   

18

Science & Alternative Science / Monumental SpaceX Launch and Catch of Starship Booster Rocket.

« on: October 14, 2024, 05:28:20 PM »

Weather or not you believe that Elon Musk and his SpaceX team are part of a conspiracy and are also faking space travel, you have to at least appreciate the monumental launch and catch of the SpaceX Starship booster rocket.

19

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: US Presidential Election 2024

« on: August 10, 2024, 09:58:29 AM »

I don't think the MAGA lot (myself included) are panicking. I think there is anxiety in trying to get Kamala front and center with debates and off-scripted interviews as soon as possible.

I think her campaign knows deep down that Kamala doesn't do well talking off-scripted and so they are sticking to easy bits like rallies where Kamala can talk in platitudes. I think she's signed up for only 1 interview with ABC news in the middle of September with no sit down interviews as of to date and a "we'll see" in terms of any additional debates. Her constant giggling (while kind of cute in my opinion) is a nervous tick when she is asked direct / hard questions. 

Trump is pushing for more debate (beyond the ABC one) and I think wants to expose Kamala for the platitude talking head that she is before the November election.

Republicans have been saying (as far back as 3-4 years ago) that Biden's cognitive state is poor. Democrats and the press have been ignoring this up until the recent debate where his cognitive state was finally front and center for everyone to see. And, you saw what happened after that. For Kamala, same thing but slightly different story -- she's not good unscripted and so they will try to keep her away from tripping over herself as much as possible. Republicans know she's vulnerable in this area.   

20

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: US Presidential Election 2024

« on: August 10, 2024, 01:05:33 AM »

Kamala and "the old man" are in the honey-moon stages... I wouldn't get too excited.

With respect to flubbing questions, Kamala relies heavily on carefully choreographed scrips; and when not reading from scrips, she is a master-flubber. One data point example is NBC interviewer Lester Holt asking her why she hasn't been to the border yet as Border Czar. Kamala first says "we've been to the border... we've been to the border... we've been to the border". Lester says "But you haven't been to the border". To which she replies "I haven't been to Europe, I mean what's your point." There are other examples as well.

The upcoming debate(s) will be interesting and fun to watch, especially with Kamala not being able to read off of scripted answers.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Kamala didn't really earn the delegates. They were Joe Biden's. Joe Biden gifted Kamala the delegates. In the 2020 race, Kamala was a terrible candidate. Again, we are in the honeymoon phase with her and the old man and so it's too early to tell.