Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #140 on: August 21, 2014, 10:37:45 PM »
What the fuck happened to my thread. This isn't a topic for anti muslim trolling, it's here to discuss ISIS and developments regarding them. Take your muslim hate routine elsewhere.

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #141 on: August 21, 2014, 10:40:47 PM »
Back on topic, it seems that even Saudi Arabia doesn't like ISIS.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/top-saudi-cleric-joins-muslim-leaders-in-condemning-isis-terrorists-says-they-are-destroying-human-civilization-125113/
When even a conservative theocracy of your own religion is calling you crazy, there's something very wrong. Many muslim leaders in western nations have been doing the same.

Initial rumors also pointed to Saudi Arabia as suppliers of ISIS, so this is especially interesting.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #142 on: August 21, 2014, 10:50:53 PM »
It would be hard to be literally Hitler unless he had come back from the dead in some interesting way. And if he had, I doubt he would have done so as a Jew unless he were unusually masochistic. And no, I am not in favour of genocide. I am merely in favour of keeping Muslims, particularly Arabs, in their own part of the world, where they can be as savage as they wish without affecting the rest of the world adversely.

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Offline markjo

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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #143 on: August 21, 2014, 11:14:39 PM »
I am merely in favour of keeping Muslims, particularly Arabs, in their own part of the world, where they can be as savage as they wish without affecting the rest of the world adversely.
You do realize that's just the kind of attitude that makes people hate you, don't you?
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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #144 on: August 21, 2014, 11:33:06 PM »
I am pragmatic. I don't care if I am hated for it. I have heard the same sentiment coming from many Christians.

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #145 on: August 21, 2014, 11:46:53 PM »
The flaw in your argument is that you would essentially surround Israel with a billion strong horde of disgruntled Muslims.

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Offline Lemon

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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #146 on: August 22, 2014, 12:28:27 AM »
The flaw in your argument is that you would essentially surround Israel with a billion strong horde of disgruntled Muslims.

Which would be wonderful. Death to Israel.
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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #147 on: August 22, 2014, 12:34:07 AM »
It would be hard to be literally Hitler unless he had come back from the dead in some interesting way. And if he had, I doubt he would have done so as a Jew unless he were unusually masochistic. And no, I am not in favour of genocide. I am merely in favour of keeping Muslims, particularly Arabs, in their own part of the world, where they can be as savage as they wish without affecting the rest of the world adversely.

If you want to start a thread about hating muslims, then go and do it. This thread is about ISIS and the geopolitics surrounding them.

I personally have a strong dislike for your rubbish because on top of being ignorant and irrelevant, it's extremely offensive. So take it elsewhere.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #148 on: August 22, 2014, 12:41:44 AM »
QUOTE: "The flaw in your argument is that you would essentially surround Israel with a billion strong horde of disgruntled Muslims."

And this would be different in form then the situation obtaining now in precisely what way? I mean, Israel is surrounded by 22 Arab nations, all of which are Muslim majority except for one, Lebanon, which is multi-confessional, and, as events in that country have proven since 1975, is a disaster due to its very multi-confessionalism.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #149 on: August 22, 2014, 12:48:21 AM »
So far, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has a successful democratic state and is also successfully multi-confessional. Absolute freedom of relgion is guaranteed within the State. Arab citizens are not required to serve in the IDF, although they may if they wish, and some do. The Druze are, by their own community's request, subject to the draft, even though they are Arabs. Christian, Jewish, and Muslim holy sites are all protected by the State. In fact, Temple Mount is controlled by the Muslim Waqf.

Fundamentally, what it comes down to is a very simple matter. You can hate me, and hate Israel, all you want. But Israel is the lone outpost of civilisation in that part of the world, surrounded by people that live in the Seventh Century. If that is what you want, you've got plenty of countries to choose from. Leave Israel alone.

I won't dispute that Israel is a Jewish State. It was intended to be such. The challenge to being both a Jewish State AND a democratic State that respects the rights of its citizens of all confessions has been at the top of Israel's agenda since the founding of the State. It must be noted that the so-called "Palestinians" are not citizens, and therefore do not qualify as part of this discussion. We are talking about Arab citizens of Israel within the Green Line.

As far as ISIS goes, the fundamental fact is that if they are permitted to go any further than they have gone, they will change the Middle East fundamentally. They MUST be destroyed. Every single member of ISIS, and every follower thereof must be killed, along with Boko Haram, and any other group that has similar ideals. Their continued existence on Earth is a threat to the continued existence of the human race. Even assuming we allow that Islam has a moderate wing (which I don't believe, but for the sake of argument), groups such as this MUST be destroyed completely.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 12:57:01 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #150 on: August 22, 2014, 01:52:43 AM »
My statement was that Israel's creation in the 1940s is what caused such resentment against the west and what allows such radical groups to rise.

One does not create a bonfire without a lot of burnable material.  The ISIS is a bonfire of hate and the west has given them plenty of fuel.  Israel was the start.


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As far as ISIS goes, the fundamental fact is that if they are permitted to go any further than they have gone, they will change the Middle East fundamentally. They MUST be destroyed. Every single member of ISIS, and every follower thereof must be killed, along with Boko Haram, and any other group that has similar ideals. Their continued existence on Earth is a threat to the continued existence of the human race. Even assuming we allow that Islam has a moderate wing (which I don't believe, but for the sake of argument), groups such as this MUST be destroyed completely.
This is why I don't take your claim of having a major in history seriously.  Completely destroying a group is very hard.  Nearly impossible really.  Sure you can smash a country and wipe out a race, but an idea, a belief, is much harder to kill.

Jewish history is full of times when being Jewish was forbidden or punished.  The Egyptians, according to your own holy book (not really scholars) tried to cull jews but failed.  The Romans tried to ban, tax, and exile them.  The Nazi's tried to wipe them out.  They all failed.
Druids: Romans tried to wipe them out.  Didn't work.
Catholics vs Protestants: Nope.
Hell, America has still failed to wipe out all the Indians.

And what happened?  The group usually got more power.  Especially the Jews and Protestants. 

Oh and let's not forget the Crusades tried wiping out or converting Muslims.  Didn't work out so well either.


So yeah, let's try to wipe out ISIS.  We'll just have them back in a generation, stronger than ever.  American still can't get rid of the damn confederates and it's been over 100 years!


I personally think the US should cut off all contact with Israel.  No trade, no supplies, no military support, nothing.  I can guarantee you, Israel would not survive a decade(I am aware of their defense industry but you can't make a gun without metal and you can't fly a jet without fuel) and within 50 years of no interference from the West(and a massive drop in oil needs), peace in the Middle East would be had.



If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Rama Set

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #151 on: August 22, 2014, 01:58:48 AM »
On behalf of Turkey, may I say you are a twat Yaakov.

As a student if history, aren't you supposed to learn from it?  Can you tell me how effective mass deportation and segregation was in the past?

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #152 on: August 22, 2014, 02:37:39 AM »
If you suggest that the creation of one tiny state of Jews in the middle of 22 Arab states is enough to radicalise the entire Muslim world, then I am right, these people are insane, and should not be allowed to mix with normal humans.

And yes, you are absolutely right. The world has had to deal with Muslims over and over and over again. The Crusades, 1492, now, and the future. You can't destroy them. I understand that. You can doubt my degree all you want. I am not stupid enough to give you my name and place of graduation, as I don't choose to be identifiable on the 'Net.

Since you CAN'T destroy them, all you can do is subdue them, and KEEP subduing them.They must be reminded, every hundred years or so, that they are to be obedient, and silent. In other words, they are to STFU and stay the f--k out of the way except when called upon. If the situation were reversed, that is EXACTLY what they would do to us, according to their own Qur'an which requires that Jews and Christians become Muslims, pay a special tax to remain Jews or Christians, or die by the sword. At least I am not imposing conversion or taxes or death on them. I am merely proposing that they stay in their own part of the world where they can be savages all they want to each other.

Ha. She committed adultery? (Even though she was really raped, but couldn't produce four witnesses to say that). Cut her head off! If that is how they wish to behave, let them. Just don't let them do it in any civilised part of the world.

As for the Egyptians, and the Hebrew sojourn there, there is proof that there was an Exodus of Hebrews from Egypt, albeit not of 2 million persons. There were indeed Hebrew slaves in Egypt that left, along with non-Hebrews, and Canaan was settled by Hebrews in a combination of peaceful settlement and military action. This is proven and can be read about in history books. You can argue about that all you wish, but don't bother to do it with me. History is history, in spite of your trying to make it otherwise.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #153 on: August 22, 2014, 02:41:59 AM »
As far as not helping Israel, you are entitled to your opinion. But, they are our only true ally in the Middle East. Last time I checked, the US didn't fuck over friends. Israel is by NO means perfect, and I never said it was. Neither is the USA. But lets face it. It is the only country over there that lives in the 21st Century. Everyone else  (except MAYBE the UAE) lives in the Seventh Century. Maybe those are the kind of savages you wish to deal with. But most people disagree with you, thank God. And thank God further that you will never be in a position of power to dictate policy.

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #154 on: August 22, 2014, 02:44:00 AM »


As far as ISIS goes, the fundamental fact is that if they are permitted to go any further than they have gone, they will change the Middle East fundamentally. They MUST be destroyed. Every single member of ISIS, and every follower thereof must be killed, along with Boko Haram, and any other group that has similar ideals. Their continued existence on Earth is a threat to the continued existence of the human race. Even assuming we allow that Islam has a moderate wing (which I don't believe, but for the sake of argument), groups such as this MUST be destroyed completely.

This is the most stupid opinion I have seen on the ISIS issue. You cannot wipe out a religious fundamentalist group. Their existence is not a threat to anyone except the Kurds, southern Iraqi's, and some Syrians. They're a bunch of untrained militia with shitty equipment, entirely incapable of fighting a modern force.

This is not relevant, but many Muslims are peaceful, normal human beings. I know many myself. To suggest ISIS is somehow indicative of typical Muslims is extremely ignorant.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #155 on: August 22, 2014, 02:49:29 AM »
I studied Islam myself, and attended a mosque for two years. Didn't tell them I was a Jew, of course. Read the Qur'an three times. Can you deny that it says that all Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians under Muslim rule are to become Muslim, pay the Jizya tax, or be killed? And can you find me a single Muslim who is a devout Muslim who denies the truth of this statement, any more than he denies the truth of the rest of the Qur'an? Any Muslim who denies the truth of that statement in the Qur'an most likely denies the entire book, or is on the way toward that position.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #156 on: August 22, 2014, 02:54:14 AM »
Well, its been fun. But I have work to do on my Doctoral dissertation, actually. So I must bid you all fond adieu. I'll come back tomorrow, I am sure. Until then, enjoy fawning over your multi-cultural bullshit. You would have us all doing that crap until we were all fed to Islam's lions, which is what is going to happen, if we are not all careful.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #157 on: August 22, 2014, 03:00:28 AM »
If you suggest that the creation of one tiny state of Jews in the middle of 22 Arab states is enough to radicalise the entire Muslim world, then I am right, these people are insane, and should not be allowed to mix with normal humans.
Are you suggesting that taking land from other people won't piss them off?  That constantly pressing your influence won't anger them?
Also, the entire middle east isn't radicalized, just small groups.  What you SHOULD be asking is this: Why did Israel's creation start this?  What changed?  Is it that they can't handle "civilization" (like all those countries bordering the edge) or could it be that Israel isn't a good neighbor?  Considering history, I'd be willing to bet the latter.  But let's test that theory.  Let's look at the Middle East history when Israel stopped existing until it started to exist again and plot the radical groups and their actions.  Since you're a history major, please give me a summary as you are the best for this task.

Quote
And yes, you are absolutely right. The world has had to deal with Muslims over and over and over again. The Crusades, 1492, now, and the future. You can't destroy them. I understand that. You can doubt my degree all you want. I am not stupid enough to give you my name and place of graduation, as I don't choose to be identifiable on the 'Net.

Since you CAN'T destroy them, all you can do is subdue them, and KEEP subduing them.They must be reminded, every hundred years or so, that they are to be obedient, and silent. In other words, they are to STFU and stay the f--k out of the way except when called upon. If the situation were reversed, that is EXACTLY what they would do to us, according to their own Qur'an which requires that Jews and Christians become Muslims, pay a special tax to remain Jews or Christians, or die by the sword. At least I am not imposing conversion or taxes or death on them. I am merely proposing that they stay in their own part of the world where they can be savages all they want to each other.
Hold on a second... are you, the History Major, telling me (again) that oppressing a group of people doesn't have bad results?  My God... you're not a Jew.  Your not a Jew at all.  Seriously, how could you possibly forget the 10 plagues of Egypt?  You are an insult to honest Jews. 


Quote
As for the Egyptians, and the Hebrew sojourn there, there is proof that there was an Exodus of Hebrews from Egypt, albeit not of 2 million persons. There were indeed Hebrew slaves in Egypt that left, along with non-Hebrews, and Canaan was settled by Hebrews in a combination of peaceful settlement and military action. This is proven and can be read about in history books. You can argue about that all you wish, but don't bother to do it with me. History is history, in spite of your trying to make it otherwise.
Citation needed.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Saddam Hussein

Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #158 on: August 22, 2014, 03:11:49 AM »
Nobody cares what you're doing when you're offline.

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Re: ISIS and the Middle East
« Reply #159 on: August 22, 2014, 03:24:59 AM »
Reminds me of sokarul taking frequent breaks from pwning all of you to drink at the bar with his friends, but not before informing you of his plans.
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