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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #880 on: September 20, 2021, 07:07:13 PM »
If you can get the disease after the shot, then you are not being administered a vaccine.

Period.

So I guess according to you the measles vaccine isn't a vaccine?

"- One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.
- Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
"
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/public/index.html

Even Polio vaccines aren't 100%, damn close, but not 100%. Therefore, according to you, the Polio vaccine is not a vaccine?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #881 on: September 20, 2021, 07:54:07 PM »
Nevada's current guidelines for Covid deaths as of July 12, 2021:

https://dpbh.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/dpbhnvgov/content/Programs/OPHIE/Docs/COVID-Death-Definition.pdf

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Updates were made July 12, 2021

~

COVID-19 Death:
• Decedents with a positive PCR COVID-19 lab report (≤ 30 days from death or post-mortem)
• Decedents with a death certificate that lists a COVID-19-related term as a cause of death in Part I and have a
history of a positive PCR COVID-19 lab report
     •  COVID-related terms include names for COVID-19, such as SARS-CoV-2, coronavirus, coronavirus-19, etc.
• Decedents with a pending cause of death that had a positive PCR lab test within 30 days of death AND
symptoms indicative of COVID-19 (per investigation or medical report)
• Decedents with a death certificate that does not specifically list a COVID-19-related term that had a positive PCR
lab result ≤ 30 days before death and/or died within 30 days of COVID-19 symptom onset AND died in a manner
of death deemed to be ‘natural’ on the death certificate
• Exception: Deaths due to non-natural causes (e.g. accidental, intentional self-harm, homicide) should not be
counted as a COVID-19 death even if the deceased had a confirmatory positive lab test within 30 days of death

So anyone who was dying of end stage cancer, heart attack, end stage liver disease, etc, but who has had a positive Covid test in the past 30 days is counted as a Covid death.

Is there any justification for this? They have changed the way deaths are reported. This is not done for other diseases.

https://americanmind.org/salvo/a-covid-death-the-bureaucracy-decides/



Author:

« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 11:52:43 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #882 on: September 20, 2021, 09:58:02 PM »
If you can get the disease after the shot, then you are not being administered a vaccine.

Period.
Then what would you call an injection that provides your body with a blueprint to fight a disease to ensure its full effects don't hit you?
A prophylactic, similar to ivermectin or even hydroxychloroquine in effectiveness when it comes to outcome-based treatment.
So it prevents disease.
But you just said it didn't.

So, Hydroxychloroqhine didn't prevent Trump from getting covid.  AND ivermectin doesn't seem to orevent disease either.

Also: since I had an immune response when I took the shot (both doses) it makes the case that it created antibodies, which means its a vaccine, no?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #883 on: September 20, 2021, 10:25:29 PM »
England is miscounting in the same way as the US and Canada:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916035/RA_Technical_Summary_-_PHE_Data_Series_COVID_19_Deaths_20200812.pdf



Related article about miscounting in England:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/analysis-why-englands-covid-19-death-toll-is-wrong-but-not-by-much

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Following the health secretary’s move on Friday, Yoon K Loke and Carl Heneghan, of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, wrote in a blogpost: “It seems that PHE regularly looks for people on the NHS database who have ever tested positive, and simply checks to see if they are still alive or not. PHE does not appear to consider how long ago the Covid test result was, nor whether the person has been successfully treated in hospital and discharged to the community.”

A Department of Health and Social Care source summed this up as: “You could have been tested positive in February, have no symptoms, then be hit by a bus in July and you’d be recorded as a Covid death.”

When the Guardian put this to a source at PHE, they said that such a scenario would “technically” be counted as a coronavirus death, “though the numbers where that situation would apply are likely to be very small”. PHE says it calculates deaths in this way because, in most circumstances, it cannot dismiss the possibility that Covid-19 could have played a role in the death.

Except for the fact that people die every week in England by the thousands from all sorts of different causes, not just busses.  ::)

A professor argues in favor of the method:

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Speaking at a meeting of the Independent Sage committee, Prof Christina Pagel, a professor of operational research at UCL, said: “If someone [got Covid-19] in mid-March, recovered early April, the chances of them then dying from something completely different in the last couple of months is quite low. So I don’t think it has caused a massive distortion.”

Uh, no. People are consistently dying in large numbers every day by things that are not Covid. If large numbers of people are getting asymptomatic Covid, this counting method is faulty. What an idiot. This is either stupidity or deliberate evil.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 02:39:40 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #884 on: September 21, 2021, 12:11:21 AM »
England is miscounting in the same way as the US and Canada:

Toronto isn’t Canada and you haven’t shown that all the US counts the same.

Quote
A professor argues in favor of the method:

Quote
Speaking at a meeting of the Independent Sage committee, Prof Christina Pagel, a professor of operational research at UCL, said: “If someone [got Covid-19] in mid-March, recovered early April, the chances of them then dying from something completely different in the last couple of months is quite low. So I don’t think it has caused a massive distortion.”

Uh, no.

Hey Tom, remember when you got all high and mighty because the expertise of someone you quoted was questioned? Look at you not giving a fuck about ethics or standards. Lol

Quote
People are consistently dying in large numbers every day by things that are not Covid.

We aren’t talking about large numbers of people, we are talking about the mortality risk over a short period of time.

Quote
If a large numbers of people are getting asymptomatic Covid, this counting method is faulty.

Iiiiiiiffffff

Quote
What an idiot. This is either stupidity or deliberate evil.

I guess when someone disagrees with you all you have left is an Ad Hom?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #885 on: September 21, 2021, 07:46:05 AM »
I think I finally found Tom's source code:

10 TROLL
20 IGNORE RESPONSE
30 GOTO 10

Conversations just go round and round. He's been shown the data which proves it's not just Covid deaths being overcounted that explains the death rate over the last year.
Here's the UK age corrected all cause mortality rate over the last 30 years. Clear falling trend until last year. And it'll be interesting to see this year's as the death rate was 42% above average in mid-Feb this year because of Covid. Well, it's either Covid or a lot of motorcycle accidents for some reason:



And here's the data from the US which shows that some other causes of mortality have increased and others decreased but overall if you take out Covid there's nothing out of the ordinary going on. It's the Covid deaths which explain the abnormal death rate:



Tom will continue to ignore this or explain it away somehow, it's probably best not to feed the troll. There's no prospect of advancing the conversation in any sensible way, it just goes round and round.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #886 on: September 21, 2021, 08:22:53 AM »
It keeps going around and around because you neglect to account for the deaths that were up generally during the pandemic, which taints your argument. People were delaying medical care due to fear that they would get Covid in the hospital or clinic, as stated by a source several pages ago.

https://www.nwpb.org/2020/11/25/further-proof-that-2020-stinks-more-people-are-dying-during-the-pandemic-not-just-from-covid/



If those excess Covid deaths are erroneously counted, then they may be attributed to the general increase in excess deaths that we know existed as the time. This other factor of a general increase of deaths during the pandemic ruins your argument.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 08:59:42 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #887 on: September 21, 2021, 08:52:35 AM »
If those excess Covid deaths are erroneously counted, then they may be attributed to the general increase in excess deaths that we know existed as the time. This other factor of a general increase of deaths during the pandemic ruins your argument.

If? What if they are not erroneously counted. Lots of learned folks are worried that we have undercounted.

And yeah, lots of people have died last year and this year because of covid. From it directly and indirectly. From it directly, as a contributing factor, because they are not vaxed, because they didn’t seek medical attention out of fear of getting it, canceled procedures, overwhelmed healthcare system, lost jobs, depression, addiction. The list goes on. Pretty much pandemic 101 results.

So what’s your point?

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #888 on: September 21, 2021, 09:22:20 AM »
It keeps going around and around because you neglect to account for the deaths that were up generally during the pandemic
The graphs above literally show that ???
You are trolling and gaslighting, you are clearly not interested in serious debate.
You've basically admitted you treat this place as a debating society where you take the contrary opinion as an intellectual exercise.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #889 on: September 21, 2021, 09:41:27 AM »
Those graphs are a hot mess. You might want to get a better ones. I don't remember 2019 being when Covid started:



And why is it suggesting that there was Covid in 2015?

And why is Total Excluding Covid higher than Total Including Covid? Total Including Covid suggests that it contains everything and should be higher. Nonsense.

If the blue increase is supposed to represent an increase in non-Covid deaths then it just illustrates the point that there were a general increase in deaths that the excess Covid deaths can be attributed to if they were erroneously counted. But again, those graphs don't make much sense. It is unsurprising that you are promoting them.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 10:04:06 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #890 on: September 21, 2021, 10:02:08 AM »
So whats your opinion on covid Tom. Is it something that if you contracted that you would be worried about? Lots of people talked like you and have ended up dying after getting infected with the sars cov-2. I'm fairly certain all those right wing shock jock radio show announcers were not at end stage cancer or died from a traffic accident

Also why would you be happy to take Ivermectin from a Big Pharma company that gave the world Vioxx when even they (Merck) say it appears to be ineffective for treating or preventing covid

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #891 on: September 21, 2021, 10:11:06 AM »
And why is it suggesting that there was Covid in 2015?
Sigh...

OK, fair enough, I did get the labels the wrong way around. The orange line is the total deaths from those causes excluding Covid.
The blue line is adding Covid. My mistake, but obvious enough that I'd expect most people to have worked it out on their own.

Obviously Covid deaths only occurred from 2020 which is why you can't see the blue line before that.
The point is your assertion is that deaths from other causes increased last year too. As the split out data shows, that's true for some causes and not others - some actually went down. But overall deaths in 2020 were a little higher than in 2019 - although it should be noted that that is part of a general rising trend. When you add in Covid though the difference is clear.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #892 on: September 21, 2021, 12:20:01 PM »
COVID has killed more than the Spanish Flu in the US:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #893 on: September 21, 2021, 12:24:56 PM »
Welcome to the big show where everyone is the crisis actor.

Remember the haunted houses down the street that turned out to be nothing more than the local bootlegger's brewery?

Same concept, only larger.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #894 on: September 21, 2021, 12:29:53 PM »
Welcome to the big show where everyone is the crisis actor.

Remember the haunted houses down the street that turned out to be nothing more than the local bootlegger's brewery?

Same concept, only larger.
How do you become a crisis actor?  Because there must be millions by now...
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #895 on: September 21, 2021, 12:50:35 PM »
Welcome to the big show where everyone is the crisis actor.

Remember the haunted houses down the street that turned out to be nothing more than the local bootlegger's brewery?

Same concept, only larger.
How do you become a crisis actor?  Because there must be millions by now...
The entire US at least.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #896 on: September 21, 2021, 01:15:10 PM »
The entire US at least.

So if you are a crisis actor, how do we know you aren't lying about being a crisis actor?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline Action80

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #897 on: September 21, 2021, 01:21:22 PM »
The entire US at least.

So if you are a crisis actor, how do we know you aren't lying about being a crisis actor?
I am no longer asking you to buy or consider anything I am writing or selling.

I am now posting my thoughts on what is taking place for the benefit of others.

You are too far gone and even if you could be salvaged, I made up my mind long ago you wouldn't be worth the piss to put out any flame.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #898 on: September 21, 2021, 01:22:00 PM »
The entire US at least.

So if you are a crisis actor, how do we know you aren't lying about being a crisis actor?

His job is to be a crisis actor, stating that there's a crisis regarding too many crisis actors.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #899 on: September 21, 2021, 01:26:54 PM »
The entire US at least.

So if you are a crisis actor, how do we know you aren't lying about being a crisis actor?
I am no longer asking you to buy or consider anything I am writing or selling.

I am now posting my thoughts on what is taking place for the benefit of others.

You are too far gone and even if you could be salvaged, I made up my mind long ago you wouldn't be worth the piss to put out any flame.

If you want to benefit others maybe you should stick to facts instead of your rage fueled, copium filled conspiracies?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.