[garygreen]

I wish he'd just piss off. Pressing the "Show unread posts since last visit" link just yields pages of this dickhead's antisocial white noise. I don't want to waste 2-3 mins every time I come here to filter through threads he hasn't bumped or created.

At this point I would say he is deliberately ruining my and everyone else's enjoyment of the forum. And as such, why the hell are we putting up with it? Are we afraid he'll do something terrible? Or that he'll just keep evading bans and keep coming back spamming everything? That we continue with this incessant attack on our community because we fear he'll break more rules and spam in more places if we don't? You've made the dumbest person on this site, the most powerful and tyrannous threat to it. IP Ban him already. And set up a list of known tor nodes and ban them as well. And every time this cretinous behaviour rears its head again with a new account, IP ban that as well. Not for 3 days. Forever. 3 days isn't changing this knob jockey's attitude to posting. We don't need or want him here. Send him back to theflatearthsociety.org or over to Eric Dubay with all the other people we don't want to interact with. The internet is billions of sites. He can use one of those instead and probe its rules and dry hump their mods. With the power vested in you as mods and admins, let your finger descend like god's own hand from the heavens, and stick a bolt of lightning into this infidel. Click 'Ban' already.

I agree with all of this.

[Jura-Glenlivet]

I too aggree with all of this.

[Hoppy]

Thork for mod! We need somebody with enough balls to ban those that are asking for it.

[Pongo]

I wish he'd just piss off. Pressing the "Show unread posts since last visit" link just yields pages of this dickhead's antisocial white noise. I don't want to waste 2-3 mins every time I come here to filter through threads he hasn't bumped or created.

At this point I would say he is deliberately ruining my and everyone else's enjoyment of the forum. And as such, why the hell are we putting up with it? Are we afraid he'll do something terrible? Or that he'll just keep evading bans and keep coming back spamming everything? That we continue with this incessant attack on our community because we fear he'll break more rules and spam in more places if we don't? You've made the dumbest person on this site, the most powerful and tyrannous threat to it. IP Ban him already. And set up a list of known tor nodes and ban them as well. And every time this cretinous behaviour rears its head again with a new account, IP ban that as well. Not for 3 days. Forever. 3 days isn't changing this knob jockey's attitude to posting. We don't need or want him here. Send him back to theflatearthsociety.org or over to Eric Dubay with all the other people we don't want to interact with. The internet is billions of sites. He can use one of those instead and probe its rules and dry hump their mods. With the power vested in you as mods and admins, let your finger descend like god's own hand from the heavens, and stick a bolt of lightning into this infidel. Click 'Ban' already.

It's not that the staff is afraid of lolwut, (The accusation of which reads like a poorly attempted reverse-psychological stir to action.  As if it's supposed to elicit a response like, "I'm not afraid of lolwut!!! Lets ban him so no one thinks I'm scared.") it's that the forums rules are designed to protect the user and allow as much freedom as possible.  The problem is that lolwut is consummately abusing this freedom.

So we find ourselves at a crossroads; do we advocate for a loss of freedom to perhaps make the forums more desirable for more people or do we allow the freedom and try to ignore lolwut?  Whatsmore, it's not simply a rule change.   It goes against the ethos of tfes.org as it was founded partly in reaction to the strict and imprecise application of rules at the old site.

This was, possibly, inevitable.  Ideally, I think the best action would be to correct the behavior through an appeal to lolwut's sense of decency (what I'm sure is a woefully small target).  The root problem here is that the wonderfully open rule structure is quite easy to abuse and, sadly, as is human nature, someone will come along and ruin things to satiate their deviant sense of happiness.

Is the Zetetic Council still in effect?  They may have the power to suggest and bring about a change if the society desires it.  Slippery slope that is though.

[lolwut?]

I wish he'd just piss off. Pressing the "Show unread posts since last visit" link just yields pages of this dickhead's antisocial white noise. I don't want to waste 2-3 mins every time I come here to filter through threads he hasn't bumped or created.

At this point I would say he is deliberately ruining my and everyone else's enjoyment of the forum. And as such, why the hell are we putting up with it? Are we afraid he'll do something terrible? Or that he'll just keep evading bans and keep coming back spamming everything? That we continue with this incessant attack on our community because we fear he'll break more rules and spam in more places if we don't? You've made the dumbest person on this site, the most powerful and tyrannous threat to it. IP Ban him already. And set up a list of known tor nodes and ban them as well. And every time this cretinous behaviour rears its head again with a new account, IP ban that as well. Not for 3 days. Forever. 3 days isn't changing this knob jockey's attitude to posting. We don't need or want him here. Send him back to theflatearthsociety.org or over to Eric Dubay with all the other people we don't want to interact with. The internet is billions of sites. He can use one of those instead and probe its rules and dry hump their mods. With the power vested in you as mods and admins, let your finger descend like god's own hand from the heavens, and stick a bolt of lightning into this infidel. Click 'Ban' already.

It's not that the staff is afraid of lolwut, (The accusation of which reads like a poorly attempted reverse-psychological stir to action.  As if it's supposed to elicit a response like, "I'm not afraid of lolwut!!! Lets ban him no so no one thinks I'm scared.") it's that the forums rules are designed to protect the user and allow as much freedom as possible.  The problem is that lolwut is consummately abusing this freedom.

So we find ourselves at a crossroads; do we advocate for a loss of freedom to perhaps make the forums more desirable for more people or do we allow the freedom and try to ignore lolwut?  Whatsmore, it's not simply a rule change.   It goes against the ethos of tfes.org as it was founded partly in reaction to the strict and imprecise application of rules at the old site.

This was, possibly, inevitable.  Ideally, I think the best action would be to correct the behavior through an appeal to lolwut's sense of decency (what I'm sure is a woefully small target).  The root problem here is that the wonderfully open rule structure is quite easy to abuse and, sadly, as is human nature, someone will come along and ruin things to satiate deviant sense of happiness.

Is the Zetetic Council still in effect?  They may have the power to suggest and bring about a change if the society desires it.  Slippery slope that is though.

I would hope that no one is "afraid" of me as I pose no harm on the society.  I am glad that my posts have spawned such a discussion  which seems to be the nature of tfes.

[Hoppy]

Don't be a dick is a rule. Is it not?
He just spams the place up. Hardly anyone responds, or readsthem. Spamming with big fonts, just to be a dick, and making hard for people on phones to scroll through. He is being a dick in everybodies face and probably laughing his ass off that he isn't permaband. The large font bs is what gets me pissed more than the stupid threads.

[lolwut?]

Don't be a dick is a rule. Is it not?
He just spams the place up. Hardly anyone responds, or readsthem. Spamming with big fonts, just to be a dick, and making hard for people on phones to scroll through. He is being a dick in everybodies face and probably laughing his ass off that he isn't permaband. The large font bs is what gets me pissed more than the stupid threads.

Well PizzaPlanet has suggested a technical fix to the font problem which has obviously not been implemented.

I don't "spam the place up" you fucking idiot. Just CN which by definition states that if i have something that probably doesn't need to be said, post it there, which I do, then get threatened with ban messages by dumbshits. The fact that I'm still here makes me actually respect the mods. Not that they give a good god damn.

[Blanko]

I should probably remind you people yet again that we do not moderate based on your personal biases. Just try to lay off with the cognitive dissonance for a while and think about what you're actually suggesting. How many people are annoyed by Thork and Hoppy's posts and would rather not see them? Should we be permabanning those two as well while we're at it?

Furthermore, as far as I can tell lolwut? is showing a lot of improvement. He's making mostly funny spam threads without walls of huge text again like back in the day (when nobody complained about him), yet you people are still asking for an unconditional permaban. If your arguments are really reduced down to "I don't want to see his posts in new posts" then sorry, we're not giving it any consideration.

I don't "spam the place up" you fucking idiot.

Personal insults towards other users are not allowed outside the lowest fora. Warned.

[juner]

I don't want him banned. If he breaks rules, then that will take care of itself. I like to see the forum active, which is why I wish we could've kept characters like Yakkov and EJ around. I'm not a huge fan of pushing boundaries just for the hell of it, but such is life. We know what the spirit of this place is, and that's fairly loose and open. I'll admit maybe we weren't prepared for a hybrid troll, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. Banning people sucks, let's avoid it if we can.

[lolwut?]

I should probably remind you people yet again that we do not moderate based on your personal biases. Just try to lay off with the cognitive dissonance for a while and think about what you're actually suggesting. How many people are annoyed by Thork and Hoppy's posts and would rather not see them? Should we be permabanning those two as well while we're at it?

Furthermore, as far as I can tell lolwut? is showing a lot of improvement. He's making mostly funny spam threads without walls of huge text again like back in the day (when nobody complained about him), yet you people are still asking for an unconditional permaban. If your arguments are really reduced down to "I don't want to see his posts in new posts" then sorry, we're not giving it any consideration.

I don't "spam the place up" you fucking idiot.

Personal insults towards other users are not allowed outside the lowest fora. Warned.

My faith in the mods of these fora is only strengthened.  Gods bless.  My apologies for the personal insult infraction as I was not aware of this rule.  I will be sure to report any personal insults towards myself by other users to the moderators without delay.  Thank you for this clarification.

[garygreen]

I should probably remind you people yet again that we do not moderate based on your personal biases. Just try to lay off with the cognitive dissonance for a while and think about what you're actually suggesting. How many people are annoyed by Thork and Hoppy's posts and would rather not see them? Should we be permabanning those two as well while we're at it?

Why isn't lolwut allowed to post the content he posts in CN in any of the other fora, like the Lounge? 

[Blanko]

I should probably remind you people yet again that we do not moderate based on your personal biases. Just try to lay off with the cognitive dissonance for a while and think about what you're actually suggesting. How many people are annoyed by Thork and Hoppy's posts and would rather not see them? Should we be permabanning those two as well while we're at it?

Why isn't lolwut allowed to post the content he posts in CN in any of the other fora, like the Lounge?

Because of rules.

[Hoppy]

I don't want him banned. If he breaks rules, then that will take care of itself. I like to see the forum active, which is why I wish we could've kept characters like Yakkov and EJ around. I'm not a huge fan of pushing boundaries just for the hell of it, but such is life. We know what the spirit of this place is, and that's fairly loose and open. I'll admit maybe we weren't prepared for a hybrid troll, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. Banning people sucks, let's avoid it if we can.

EJ was a troll that I didn't mind, and actually liked him. Yakkov I didn't like. I never wanted either of them banned. Lol was just messing up the ability to even read or respond to threads, which was just being a dick. He seems to have stopped the wall of huge font posting for now which is good. Stupid and disruptive and two different things. Stupid I can deal and identify with. Disruption there is no need for.

[garygreen]

I should probably remind you people yet again that we do not moderate based on your personal biases. Just try to lay off with the cognitive dissonance for a while and think about what you're actually suggesting. How many people are annoyed by Thork and Hoppy's posts and would rather not see them? Should we be permabanning those two as well while we're at it?

Why isn't lolwut allowed to post the content he posts in CN in any of the other fora, like the Lounge?

Because of rules.

Right, and I'm trying to understand why a rule that prohibits disruptive behavior in the Lounge is qualitatively different from a rule that prohibits disruptive behavior in CN (or anywhere else).

I simply don't understand why you keep conflating these issues with banning a user for unpopular opinions.  No one is suggesting that.  What Thork and others are complaining about is behavior that degrades the experience of the users on this forum.

Here's the important part: We could definitely be wrong about this.  Maybe his behavior isn't especially disruptive.  Maybe most users don't notice.  Maybe the ignore function is the perfect solution (it's a fine solution for me).  Those things are all debatable.  I don't see how it's debatable that this is anything at all like trying to ban someone because their posts are unpopular, or that anyone is asking for a user to be banned solely because "I'm garygreen and I demand that you moderate posts according to what I enjoy reading."

Think of it this way: if lolwut was a bot that posted 20 threads per day in CN with random words and phrases in them, I would be making the exact same arguments in favor of it being banned: disruption bad, good-user-experience good.  It wouldn't be a request to "moderate based on my personal biases," nor would it act as a slippery slope to ban garygreen's posts becauase omg such unpopular opinions.  Frankly, I don't get how lolwut is even distinguishable from such a bot.

[Thork]

Frankly, I don't get how lolwut is even distinguishable from such a bot.

A bot has a purpose. It is trying to sell you something. lolwut has no purpose at all.

[Blanko]

I should probably remind you people yet again that we do not moderate based on your personal biases. Just try to lay off with the cognitive dissonance for a while and think about what you're actually suggesting. How many people are annoyed by Thork and Hoppy's posts and would rather not see them? Should we be permabanning those two as well while we're at it?

Why isn't lolwut allowed to post the content he posts in CN in any of the other fora, like the Lounge?

Because of rules.

Right, and I'm trying to understand why a rule that prohibits disruptive behavior in the Lounge is qualitatively different from a rule that prohibits disruptive behavior in CN (or anywhere else).

I simply don't understand why you keep conflating these issues with banning a user for unpopular opinions.  No one is suggesting that.  What Thork and others are complaining about is behavior that degrades the experience of the users on this forum.

Here's the important part: We could definitely be wrong about this.  Maybe his behavior isn't especially disruptive.  Maybe most users don't notice.  Maybe the ignore function is the perfect solution (it's a fine solution for me).  Those things are all debatable.  I don't see how it's debatable that this is anything at all like trying to ban someone because their posts are unpopular, or that anyone is asking for a user to be banned solely because "I'm garygreen and I demand that you moderate posts according to what I enjoy reading."

Think of it this way: if lolwut was a bot that posted 20 threads per day in CN with random words and phrases in them, I would be making the exact same arguments in favor of it being banned: disruption bad, good-user-experience good.  It wouldn't be a request to "moderate based on my personal biases," nor would it act as a slippery slope to ban garygreen's posts becauase omg such unpopular opinions.  Frankly, I don't get how lolwut is even distinguishable from such a bot.

Literally anything could count as an "behaviour that degrades user experience" Thork degrades my my user experience. Saddam degrades my user experience. It's a completely worthless assessment and is absolutely nothing to go by.

If you only had an issue with massive walls of text then that's another thing, but like I said - lolwut? no longer does that and I frankly do not see how his recent posting is any more or less disruptive than anything else that gets posted in CN. If anything, I find his posts infinitely more valuable and entertaining than someone posting "50963" in the Number Thread or "8:00 had breakfast" in Get Involved. Of course you can choose to disagree, but unless you can come up with realistic reasons for banning him, your opinions quite simply don't matter.

Perhaps you're still stuck in last week because you're ignoring lolwut? and have no idea what he's actually posting?

[garygreen]

Literally anything could count as an "behaviour that degrades user experience" Thork degrades my my user experience. Saddam degrades my user experience. It's a completely worthless assessment and is absolutely nothing to go by.

So then what is the objective standard by which other rules are justified?  What makes the rule set that says you can't spam The Lounge qualitatively different from a rule that says you can't spam [any other forum]?  Or the rule set that prohibits posting science topics in A&E?  Or no personal attacks?  What is the worthwhile criterion for a good rule that gives us something objective to go by?

If you don't like the particular phrase "behaviour that degrades user experience," then that's fine.  But please stop pretending that you don't understand that what Thork and others are saying is that whatever the standard is that legitimizes a rule like "don't shitpost in upper fora" could be, and should be, applied to what is essentially a bot spamming CN.

And, no, I don't agree that Thork or Saddam degrade your user experience of the forum.  Can you elaborate on how that could be the case?  You're the only one insisting that "endlessly spamming CN should be prohibited" is in any way equivalent to "I don't like reading Thork/Saddam/Garygreen opinions so they should be banned and their opinions prohibited."

[Saddam Hussein]

Saddam degrades my user experience.

Hey, fuck you too, asshole.

Anyway, if he's not ruining threads with giant fonts or pictures, he's harmless.  There's no point in complaining about someone posting nonsense in the nonsense forum.

[Blanko]

Literally anything could count as an "behaviour that degrades user experience" Thork degrades my my user experience. Saddam degrades my user experience. It's a completely worthless assessment and is absolutely nothing to go by.

So then what is the objective standard by which other rules are justified?  What makes the rule set that says you can't spam The Lounge qualitatively different from a rule that says you can't spam [any other forum]?  Or the rule set that prohibits posting science topics in A&E?  Or no personal attacks?  What is the worthwhile criterion for a good rule that gives us something objective to go by?

If you don't like the particular phrase "behaviour that degrades user experience," then that's fine.  But please stop pretending that you don't understand that what Thork and others are saying is that whatever the standard is that legitimizes a rule like "don't shitpost in upper fora" could be, and should be, applied to what is essentially a bot spamming CN.

And, no, I don't agree that Thork or Saddam degrade your user experience of the forum.  Can you elaborate on how that could be the case?  You're the only one insisting that "endlessly spamming CN should be prohibited" is in any way equivalent to "I don't like reading Thork/Saddam/Garygreen opinions so they should be banned and their opinions prohibited."

It seems you didn't respond to my question. I would like to know that you're up to date on the discussion before I bother replying to you.

Saddam degrades my user experience.

Hey, fuck you too, asshole.

Anyway, if he's not ruining threads with giant fonts or pictures, he's harmless.  There's no point in complaining about someone posting nonsense in the nonsense forum.

w0w personal insults in S&C

[garygreen]

It seems you didn't respond to my question. I would like to know that you're up to date on the discussion before I bother replying to you.

Indeed, lolwut is on my ignore list.