[anounceofsaltperday]

just explain this one for me Gulliver...

Back to the blueprints.  The reference clearly states that they are not in one place and that they don't all exist.  I have now built several factories and organised the design and construction of many machines.  The companies that I worked for always kept the blueprints, BOM etc etc in a catalogued system.  Some as far back as 1920.  This would be considered normal practice.  NASA can't be bothered keeping records to 1972... fine... it obviously wasn't important.  (my conclusion, it wasn't important, it was a hoax). 

The article then goes on to say that the drawings were never all together at the one time.  So exactly how were these devices put together?  There was no single manager in charge of piecing the rocket together?  The various contractors arrived in a group consciousness system and randomly placed their parts into the jigsaw?  While that is clearly what really happened, I have little doubt that NASA is not claiming that process.  NASA will claim that construction was done using a tightly disciplined military style procedure.  Someone was in charge.  That person would need total control over all aspects of the design and build... delegated for sure, but still in control.

I remain sceptical about the competition you are talking about... no references provided.

[Gulliver]

just explain this one for me Gulliver...<snipped>

Back to the blueprints.  The reference clearly states that they are not in one place and that they don't all exist.  I have now built several factories and organised the design and construction of many machines.  The companies that I worked for always kept the blueprints, BOM etc etc in a catalogued system.  Some as far back as 1920.  This would be considered normal practice.  NASA can't be bothered keeping records to 1972... fine... it obviously wasn't important.  (my conclusion, it wasn't important, it was a hoax). 

The article then goes on to say that the drawings were never all together at the one time.  So exactly how were these devices put together?  There was no single manager in charge of piecing the rocket together?  The various contractors arrived in a group consciousness system and randomly placed their parts into the jigsaw?  While that is clearly what really happened, I have little doubt that NASA is not claiming that process.  NASA will claim that construction was done using a tightly disciplined military style procedure.  Someone was in charge.  That person would need total control over all aspects of the design and build... delegated for sure, but still in control.

I remain sceptical about the competition you are talking about... no references provided.

Please open a new topic if you wish to discuss over-water mirages, as your source correctly calls it.

Why do you believe that the integration blueprints are not available? Please don't provide any more straw man fallacies.

[anounceofsaltperday]

Gulliver,  I don't believe anything at all.  I will remain a skeptic until the evidence confirms that the Apollo missions took place to my satisfaction.

What is the story with the restorations btw?  was the original data found or not?  In what way was my reference to the newspaper article out of date?  Are you telling me that the data has been found?

[Gulliver]

Gulliver,  I don't believe anything at all.  I will remain a skeptic until the evidence confirms that the Apollo missions took place to my satisfaction.

What is the story with the restorations btw?  was the original data found or not?  In what way was my reference to the newspaper article out of date?  Are you telling me that the data has been found?

I really don't care what level of evidence you need. I do find it amazing though that you'll believe that the earth is flat because it looks flat, which it doesn't. You do have hills where you look, don't you.?

Yes, they found the missing records and spent over $200,000 restoring them, but, of course, you could have just read that on then NASA link I gave you.

How long will it take you to document your amazing ability to see ships with a telescope that RET predicts should be over the horizon?

[anounceofsaltperday]

that is easy... my everyday experience will not be denied...  I reiterate what I type earlier in this thread...

so the bottom line for me is this.  In my everyday life I experience the world as being flat.  I can see ships in the distant horizon with the use of a telescope down to the waterline when they should have long disappeared over the horizon.  In my work as a mining engineer, I never make any allowance for the putative curvature of the earth.  To my knowledge, there is not a single real world application of geodetics.  Any bridge, canal, railroad or tunnel constructed assumed that the earth is flat and this continues to be the case today.  I constantly request a 3D model of the putative sea level globe in its entirety and I am simply unable to shake one loose.


There is a series of four well known astronomical observations which clearly demonstrate that the motion of the sun is geocentric and not heliocentric.

To offset this, we have the images of NASA and the space program.  Werner Von Braun is mostly known for his Disney publications and films.  The first director of NASA came from Paramount studios http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Keith_Glennan. 

The Apollo missions coincided with the film A Space Odyssey.  As discussed above, the salient documentation to verify these missions has been lost.  The machinery that is on display is just not capable, in my humble opinion, of performing the tasks that have been claimed for them.    Moreover, the physics of the mission are clearly demonstrating that the mission could not have taken place. http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravel.htm .  In particular, Anders notes that "You cannot step on a 200° hot surface of any kind in vacuum without melting your protective gear and getting burnt. "

This thread commenced with the claim that a CGI rendering proved that a photograph purportedly of a man on the moon proves that the photo is genuine.  Gulliver has commented that I have not provided "proof" that key documents have gone missing.  On both of these last points, I would suggest that I have had a COMPREHENSIVE vindication of my views.

You just keep saying.... the documents are there.  I keep pointing to the reference that clearly says that documents are missing and that they are not held by NASA.

I am sceptical that the original data has "suddenly been found" but I am sure someone will review and find it to be faked. 

Also, you required me start a new thread to discuss Bedford Canal phenomena and then you want it reinstated to this thread.  What do you really want?

Just another example of the more obvious physical impossibilities is that if these guys are supposed have stood in two hundred degree sun with "water cooling" in a vacuum, how did the coolant disperse its heat?  there is no way for the coolant to pass its heat to the environment.

[Rama Set]

The moon only gets to slightly above 100C in every source I have seen.

[anounceofsaltperday]

up to 127 in fact.. what is that in farenheit? hmm well over 200

[Gulliver]

... I can see ships in the distant horizon with the use of a telescope down to the waterline when they should have long disappeared over the horizon.

I renew my challenge. Document your amazing ability.

In my work as a mining engineer, ...I constantly request a 3D model of the putative sea level globe in its entirety and I am simply unable to shake one loose.

So then, to be fair, you must have a 3D model of the putative sea-level flat earth in its entirety. Please start a relevant topic and post it. Thanks.

There is a series of four well known astronomical observations which clearly demonstrate that the motion of the sun is geocentric and not heliocentric.

First, that sentence needs some work. Perhaps you meant that the solar system is geocentric. Again, please start a relevant topic and post all four replete with documentation to a volume similar to NASA's.

...As discussed above, the salient documentation to verify these missions has been lost.

Please avoid No True Scotsman fallacies.

...In particular, Anders notes that "You cannot step on a 200° hot surface of any kind in vacuum without melting your protective gear and getting burnt. " ...Also, you required me start a new thread to discuss Bedford Canal phenomena and then you want it reinstated to this thread.

I did no such thing. I will not, however, comment on your cheesy mirage video in this thread

Just another example of the more obvious physical impossibilities is that if these guys are supposed have stood in two hundred degree sun with "water cooling" in a vacuum, how did the coolant disperse its heat?  there is no way for the coolant to pass its heat to the environment.

OKay, the question and claim there demonstrate beyond all doubt that you're lying. You cannot be a professional mining engineer and not know the heat can be exchanged without an atmosphere. Goodness, calculating heat loss by venting a gas into a vacuum is a common high school physics homework problem. Yes, the ice sublimates into the vacuum. See, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_Cooling_and_Ventilation_Garment

[anounceofsaltperday]

you just believe anything don't you?  how does a thin sheet of ice (formed by a separate feed water source get formed externally at 127oC? A separate water supply?  I am now HIGHLY sceptical of this.  I suspect that the blueprints and specific design for these spacesuits are a little difficult to get hold of.  Please provide the blueprint and complete design for this suit.  I shall review the mathematics of this at my leisure over the coming weeks.

I think you should review your previous comments... you clearly requested that I commence a new thread.

I notice that you completely avoid commenting on the COMPLETE LACK of real world applications of globalist influenced surveying.

[Rama Set]

up to 127 in fact.. what is that in farenheit? hmm well over 200

Considering Heiwa is European and an "engineer" I assumed he was using SI units.  Now, do you know that 127C is a daytime high and most lunar walks were scheduled for dawn when temperatures would not be near the daytime high.  Not that that would matter seeing as the outside of the suit was made from fiberglass, whose melting point is well above even 200C, nevermind 127C.  There are multiple layers of aluminum after that, whose melting point is also well above 127C.  The suits has a coating of teflon, which easily withstands these temperatures, and the sole of the boots were made from silicon which I personally use in my oven at temperatures up to 500C260C.

This claim that gear for the Apollo 11 moon walk would melt is ridiculous on it's face.

EDIT: Screwed up my temp units.

[Gulliver]

you just believe anything don't you?  how does a thin sheet of ice (formed by a separate feed water source get formed externally at 127oC? A separate water supply?  I am now HIGHLY sceptical of this.  I suspect that the blueprints and specific design for these spacesuits are a little difficult to get hold of.  Please provide the blueprint and complete design for this suit.  I shall review the mathematics of this at my leisure over the coming weeks.

I think you should review your previous comments... you clearly requested that I commence a new thread.

I notice that you completely avoid commenting on the COMPLETE LACK of real world applications of globalist influenced surveying.

No, I will not believe your outlandish and unsubstantiated claims, such as "[T]here is no way for the coolant to pass its heat to the environment." I feel no obligation to do your research for you.

There is no reason to think that the ice need form at that temperature. RS points out correctly the importance of the Sun's angle of incidence. You also forgot that heat exchangers can accomplish amazing feats and that the panel could very well be placed in the shade of some other part of the suit.

Yes, I did ask you to start a new thread if you wanted to discuss a new topic. No, I did not "require[d you] start a new thread to discuss Bedford Canal phenomena"

I'd be happy to comment on the "COMPLETE LACK of real world applications of globalist influenced surveying" in a thread on that topic but only after you provide clear, incontrovertible evidence that such a lack exists.

Again, how long until you can document your absolutely amazing ability to see a ship down to its waterline at a distance that RET claims to be typically impossible?

[anounceofsaltperday]

Thanks Gulliver and Rama Set.  As discussed, I am sceptical that the purported Apollo missions took place. 

Ships..   start looking at 7.30 minutes.

With respect to the surveying discussion Gulliver, you need to apply the scientific method.  I have put forward the hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD civil or mining applications which make allowances for the purported curvature of the earth and that in every PRACTICAL sense, the zero datum of the earth is planar.  You can easily disprove this hypothesis simply by finding a real world example.  Simple task for you.

I am completely sceptical about the space suit... I think it is BS.  How many litres of fluid have to be evaporated?  How many litres were required for the lunar lander?  Rama, the days on the moon are 28 days long.  The landing took place in daylight and Armstrong purportedly set foot on the moon six hours later.  They stayed 21.5 hours. The amount of liquid (presumably water) that had to be carried simply to be "sublimated" would be pretty hefty methinks.  It will be a pleasant diversion to walk through this arithmetic at some stage.

[markjo]

Ships..   start looking at 7.30 minutes.

That ship appears to be in front of the horizon, not behind it.

[Rama Set]

Thanks Gulliver and Rama Set.  As discussed, I am sceptical that the purported Apollo missions took place. 

Ships..   start looking at 7.30 minutes.

With respect to the surveying discussion Gulliver, you need to apply the scientific method.  I have put forward the hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD civil or mining applications which make allowances for the purported curvature of the earth and that in every PRACTICAL sense, the zero datum of the earth is planar.  You can easily disprove this hypothesis simply by finding a real world example.  Simple task for you.

I am completely sceptical about the space suit... I think it is BS.  How many litres of fluid have to be evaporated?  How many litres were required for the lunar lander?  Rama, the days on the moon are 28 days long.  The landing took place in daylight and Armstrong purportedly set foot on the moon six hours later.  They stayed 21.5 hours. The amount of liquid (presumably water) that had to be carried simply to be "sublimated" would be pretty hefty methinks.  It will be a pleasant diversion to walk through this arithmetic at some stage.

Apollo 11 made 2.5hr moonwalk, so be sure to use that time in your calculations. I note that you did not address my rebuttal to Heiwa's obviously ridiculous claim about spacesuit materials melting. I look forward to your reply, but since I adequately showed Heiwa's claim to be fanciful, I do not expect a provocative response.

[Gulliver]

...With respect to the surveying discussion Gulliver, you need to apply the scientific method.  I have put forward the hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD civil or mining applications which make allowances for the purported curvature of the earth and that in every PRACTICAL sense, the zero datum of the earth is planar.  You can easily disprove this hypothesis simply by finding a real world example.  Simple task for you...

If this were a thread on surveying, I would simply point out that I have no obligation to "disprove" your hypothesis. Feel free to do your own work.

[anounceofsaltperday]

Gulliver et al...  The lunar lander will also need to have its heat dissipated..  be sure to consider that.

Since you have vacated the field,  I claim COMPLETE vindication of my hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD applications of globalist thinking in mining or civil engineering applications. 

The whole point is that any ship will ALWAYS be in front of the horizon because the undisturbed sea level is flat.  If the earth was a globe then two points ten kilometres apart would have a hump 1.9m high etc etc.

Game, set and match.  Thank you ball boys, thank you linesmen.

[markjo]

Since you have vacated the field,  I claim COMPLETE vindication of my hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD applications of globalist thinking in mining or civil engineering applications. 

Does surveying count?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelling#Refraction_and_curvature
http://civilengineersforum.com/geodetic-surveying/

[Rama Set]

...With respect to the surveying discussion Gulliver, you need to apply the scientific method.  I have put forward the hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD civil or mining applications which make allowances for the purported curvature of the earth and that in every PRACTICAL sense, the zero datum of the earth is planar.  You can easily disprove this hypothesis simply by finding a real world example.  Simple task for you...

If this were a thread on surveying, I would simply point out that I have no obligation to "disprove" your hypothesis. Feel free to do your own work.

Although Geodetic surveys immediately spring to mind.  As does naval radar.  As does GPS... It goes on and on.

[markjo]

...With respect to the surveying discussion Gulliver, you need to apply the scientific method.  I have put forward the hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD civil or mining applications which make allowances for the purported curvature of the earth and that in every PRACTICAL sense, the zero datum of the earth is planar.  You can easily disprove this hypothesis simply by finding a real world example.  Simple task for you...

If this were a thread on surveying, I would simply point out that I have no obligation to "disprove" your hypothesis. Feel free to do your own work.

Although Geodetic surveys immediately spring to mind.  As does naval radar.  As does GPS... It goes on and on.

Very long tunnels, such as the channel tunnel.

[Rama Set]

...With respect to the surveying discussion Gulliver, you need to apply the scientific method.  I have put forward the hypothesis that there are NO REAL WORLD civil or mining applications which make allowances for the purported curvature of the earth and that in every PRACTICAL sense, the zero datum of the earth is planar.  You can easily disprove this hypothesis simply by finding a real world example.  Simple task for you...

If this were a thread on surveying, I would simply point out that I have no obligation to "disprove" your hypothesis. Feel free to do your own work.

Although Geodetic surveys immediately spring to mind.  As does naval radar.  As does GPS... It goes on and on.

Very long tunnels, such as the channel tunnel.

Cue mistaking avg height above sea level for meaning no curvature.