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Re: Trump
« Reply #8820 on: May 18, 2021, 11:52:44 PM »
We now have multiple state audits finding significant signs of fraud.

So you just lie now. Cool story. There has not been an audit which is disagreed with the certified election results by any meaningful margin.

Quote
Considering the inherent slowness of the justice system and the process the fraud investigation is all coming together pretty smoothly, as far as I'm concerned. Obviously fraud takes some time to build a case for and prosecute. That's why the vast majority of the November and December court cases that we looked at were focused on election rule breaking and not fraud.

Well I’m happy you’re happy. Your extremely vague fraud allegations that somehow were perpetrated by Republicans to keep them out of power is some of the dumbest shit imaginable, but we all need a pillar to prop up our belief, right?

Also, for at least for the last six years the narrative has been that there are bad politicians on both sides. RINOs, uniparty, etc. Keep up.
[/quote]
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8821 on: May 19, 2021, 12:18:30 AM »
We now have multiple state audits finding significant signs of fraud.

So you just lie now. Cool story. There has not been an audit which is disagreed with the certified election results by any meaningful margin.

Michigan

The Antrim, Michigan, machine audit found signs of fraud. It disagreed with the results from the machines. The machines said that Joe Biden won on election night. They later discovered through manual means that this was false, and the numbers were corrected before certification occurred. An audit of the machines for that county showed significant signs of machine fraud, which stands as evidence for fraud in the machines regardless of whether it was manually caught and corrected before certification.

From the Antrim, Michigan Forensic Audit - _v2_[redacted].pdf]https://depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

"The allowable election error rate established by the Federal Election Commission guidelines is .0008% We observed an error rate of 68.05%... The results of the Antrim County 2020 election are not certifiable."

Arizona

A different Arizona audit found enough fraud to flip the election, per Rep Paul Gosar:

https://twitter.com/DrPaulGosar



New Hampshire

An audit in Windham, New Hampshire found that Republicans were systematically shorted votes from the Dominion machines. NH then started auditing state-wide.

From yesterday: "The numbers coming from the legislatively-ordered audit in that NH town confirm what the concerned citizens of NH have claimed all along.  Our machines are not accurate and cannot be trusted to accurately count our votes." - Dr. David Strang M.D., Belknap County Republican Committee State Committee Member

Pennsylvania

PA State Reps found numbers that don't add up.

BREAKING: Pennsylvania Certified Results for President Are Found in Error – The Error Is Twice the Size of the Difference Between Candidates

"Republican State Representative Russ Diamond uncovered and reported today that the results for President are way off in Pennsylvania.  More ballots were cast than people voted by more than 200,000 votes."
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:21:10 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Trump
« Reply #8822 on: May 19, 2021, 12:31:02 AM »

Pennsylvania

PA State Reps found numbers that don't add up.

BREAKING: Pennsylvania Certified Results for President Are Found in Error – The Error Is Twice the Size of the Difference Between Candidates

"Republican State Representative Russ Diamond uncovered and reported today that the results for President are way off in Pennsylvania.  More ballots were cast than people voted by more than 200,000 votes."


Personally, I think in a country of well over 300 million, with so much at stake the idea that there wasn't fraud is ridiculous. However, the claim that the amount of fraud that occurred was sufficient (on one side) to have been the reason Biden won is what we do not have evidence for.

Randomly I wanted to look at the last claim first, and went to that tweet from Dec. 28th.  Fifth reply down says this:

CowboyRocksteady
Dec 28, 2020
Replying to
@russdiamond
You can look up the PA SURE numbers online. These numbers presented here are false.


And the very next tweet has this link showing that the numbers are wrong:
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/BEST/Pages/BEST-Election-Stats.aspx

So...fact checked same day as the tweet all the way back in Dec. 28 by the fifth public reply!

Someone else can look at the other claims.  Maybe they're all legit.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 12:32:34 AM by existoid »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8823 on: May 19, 2021, 12:34:36 AM »
You have not presented a legitimate source or authority. You are presenting a Twitter comment by "CowboyRocksteady" that "you can look it up" and "the numbers presented here are false".  Wow. A Twitter comment. Stunning debunk there. ::)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 12:44:04 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8824 on: May 19, 2021, 12:43:58 AM »
You have not presented a legitimate source or authority. You are presenting a Twitter comment by "CowboyRocksteady" that "you can look it up" and "this is false".  Wow. A Twitter comment. Stunning debunk there. ::)

This is how dishonest you are. A link to the PA Department of State is ignored and instead you try and disparage the Twitter handle. It’s pathetic.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8825 on: May 19, 2021, 12:52:16 AM »
You have not presented a legitimate source or authority. You are presenting a Twitter comment by "CowboyRocksteady" that "you can look it up" and "this is false".  Wow. A Twitter comment. Stunning debunk there. ::)

This is how dishonest you are. A link to the PA Department of State is ignored and instead you try and disparage the Twitter handle. It’s pathetic.

You guys are referencing a rando's Twitter comment and are jumping up and down assuring us that the person on Twitter accurately analyzed and understood what he was posting.

Your source is god awful, per usual.

But did you even look at the PA link and compare it to the original claim?

The PA Reps were claiming that the county data differs from the SURE system data, and the page presented doesn't specify whether it is presenting county data or "SURE" data anywhere on that page, let alone compares them for us. So we see that not only are you presenting a terrible source, you are providing terrible data as well.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:16:58 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8826 on: May 19, 2021, 01:22:01 AM »
You have not presented a legitimate source or authority. You are presenting a Twitter comment by "CowboyRocksteady" that "you can look it up" and "this is false".  Wow. A Twitter comment. Stunning debunk there. ::)

This is how dishonest you are. A link to the PA Department of State is ignored and instead you try and disparage the Twitter handle. It’s pathetic.

You guys are referencing a Twitter comment and are jumping up and down assuring us that the person on Twitter accurately analyzed and understood what he was posting.

Your source is god awful, per usual.

You also posted a tweet, so cool?

Quote
But did you even look at the PA link and compare it to the original claim?

The PA Reps were claiming that the county data differs from the SURE system data, and the page presented doesn't specify whether it is presenting county data or "SURE" data anywhere on that page, let alone compares them for us. So we see that not only are you presenting a terrible source, you are providing terrible data as well.
Yes I have looked at it, and there was a discrepancy, but it was clerical and has been explained: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9887147615
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Re: Trump
« Reply #8827 on: May 19, 2021, 01:27:40 AM »
What a terrible article for you. First you claim that the numbers were FALSE with the Twitter reference that you supported, and now your arguments shifts to claiming that the numbers posted by the lawmakers were CORRECT.

From your article:

Quote
The claim then spread to several right-wing websites and social media influencers, including Trump, whose tweet claiming Pennsylvania had 205,000 more votes than voters was retweeted 117,000 times.

However, these claims rely on incomplete data, according to Wanda Murren, communications director for the Pennsylvania Department of State, who called the lawmakers’ release “obvious misinformation.”

So this article admits that numbers are correct but calls it "incomplete," as if it takes more than two months to upload their data.

The article does not make any effort to prove or substantiate that it was incomplete. It only calls it incomplete. This is an excuse. You found an excuse.

Now that it is May we can wait for you to prove that the numbers actually were incomplete to support this increasingly evolving line of excuses from you.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:32:13 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Trump
« Reply #8828 on: May 19, 2021, 01:29:03 AM »
You have not presented a legitimate source or authority. You are presenting a Twitter comment by "CowboyRocksteady" that "you can look it up" and "this is false".  Wow. A Twitter comment. Stunning debunk there. ::)

This is how dishonest you are. A link to the PA Department of State is ignored and instead you try and disparage the Twitter handle. It’s pathetic.

You guys are referencing a Twitter comment and are jumping up and down assuring us that the person on Twitter accurately analyzed and understood what he was posting.

Your source is god awful, per usual.

But did you even look at the PA link and compare it to the original claim?

The PA Reps were claiming that the county data differs from the SURE system data, and the page presented doesn't specify whether it is presenting county data or "SURE" data anywhere on that page, let alone compares them for us. So we see that not only are you presenting a terrible source, you are providing terrible data as well.

Are you sure you know what "SURE" data is, exactly?  You are decrying a source that is effectively the same source - because you think the tweet from Rep. Ryan was meaningful.  SURE data is overseen by PA's Bureau of Election Security and Technology which is, dum da da dum!!!  Under the authority of the PA Department of State

Just the teensiest amount of Google fu shows this news article:
https://wjactv.com/news/local/pa-republican-lawmakers-analysis-finds-presidential-election-numbers-dont-add-up

which includes this response from the PA DoS to Rep. Ryan:

"In today’s release Rep. Ryan and others rehash, with the same lack of evidence and the same absence of supporting documentation, repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories regarding the November 3 election. State and federal judges have sifted through hundreds of pages of unsubstantiated and false allegations and found no evidence of fraud or illegal voting.

"Now, the legislators have given us another perfect example of the dangers of uninformed, lay analysis combined with a basic lack of election administration knowledge.

"For instance, it is quite common to have significant "undervotes" for down-ballot races in a presidential election, particularly when there isn't a U.S. Senate race on the ballot. In 2000, Sen. Santorum received 200,000 more votes than President Bush, but the US Senate race still had more than 100,000 fewer votes than the presidential race.

"We are unclear as to what data the legislators used for this most recent “analysis.” But the only way to determine the number of voters who voted in November from the SURE system is through the vote histories. At this time, there are still a few counties that have not completed uploading their vote histories to the SURE system. These counties, which include Philadelphia, Allegheny, Butler and Cambria, would account for a significant number of voters. The numbers certified by the counties, not the uploading of voter histories into the SURE system, determines the ultimate certification of an election by the secretary.

"This obvious misinformation put forth by Rep. Ryan and others is the hallmark of so many of the claims made about this year’s presidential election. When exposed to even the simplest examination, courts at every level have found these and similar conspiratorial claims to be wholly without basis.

"To put it simply, this so-called analysis was based on incomplete data."  [emphasis added]






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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8829 on: May 19, 2021, 01:34:41 AM »
You posted the same argument Rama Set posted. First you call it false, and now you back away from that argument call it correct but incomplete.

What data are you basing your claim of "incomplete" on?

Surely now that it is May you must have the correct data to show it wasn't just a lame excuse.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:37:12 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Trump
« Reply #8830 on: May 19, 2021, 01:35:33 AM »
What a terrible article for you. First you claim that the numbers were FALSE with the Twitter reference that you supported, and now your arguments shifts to claiming that the numbers posted by the lawmakers were CORRECT.

From your article:

Quote
The claim then spread to several right-wing websites and social media influencers, including Trump, whose tweet claiming Pennsylvania had 205,000 more votes than voters was retweeted 117,000 times.

However, these claims rely on incomplete data, according to Wanda Murren, communications director for the Pennsylvania Department of State, who called the lawmakers’ release “obvious misinformation.”

So this article admits that numbers are correct but calls it "incomplete," as if it takes more than two months to upload their data.

The article does not make any effort to prove or substantiate that it was incomplete. It only calls it incomplete. This is an excuse. You found an excuse.

Now that it is May we can wait for you to prove that the numbers actually were incomplete to support this increasingly evolving line of excuses from you.

You didn't read that article very carefully, apparently. 

Here's a quote further down:

"Those claims are easily debunked. In Pennsylvania, for example, there were nearly 7 million votes cast. The total number of registered voters in 2020 was just over 9 million."

Seems like Rep. Ryan was just flat out wrong...

Just look here for the numbers:
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/OtherServicesEvents/VotingElectionStatistics/Pages/VotingElectionStatistics.aspx





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Re: Trump
« Reply #8831 on: May 19, 2021, 01:40:03 AM »
You didn't read that article very carefully, apparently. 

Here's a quote further down:

"Those claims are easily debunked. In Pennsylvania, for example, there were nearly 7 million votes cast. The total number of registered voters in 2020 was just over 9 million."

Seems like Rep. Ryan was just flat out wrong...

Just look here for the numbers:
https://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElections/OtherServicesEvents/VotingElectionStatistics/Pages/VotingElectionStatistics.aspx

The document from the PA Lawmakers also says that there were nearly 7 million votes cast, and doesn't mention the number of registered voters. Looks like that quote matches to me.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:45:26 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8832 on: May 19, 2021, 01:45:46 AM »
What a terrible article for you. First you claim that the numbers were FALSE with the Twitter reference that you supported, and now your arguments shifts to claiming that the numbers posted by the lawmakers were CORRECT.

Lying is like breathing for you. I never said the numbers were false, I said you lack integrity. You are just proving me correct with every subsequent post.

Quote
From your article:
Quote
The claim then spread to several right-wing websites and social media influencers, including Trump, whose tweet claiming Pennsylvania had 205,000 more votes than voters was retweeted 117,000 times.

However, these claims rely on incomplete data, according to Wanda Murren, communications director for the Pennsylvania Department of State, who called the lawmakers’ release “obvious misinformation.”

So this article admits that numbers are correct but calls it "incomplete," as if it takes more than two months to upload their data.

The article does not make any effort to prove or substantiate that it was incomplete. It only calls it incomplete. This is an excuse. You found an excuse.

Now that it is May we can wait for you to prove that the numbers actually were incomplete to support this increasingly evolving line of excuses from you.

So a PA rep releases incomplete numbers, claims fraud. You lap it up, but when it’s shown to be an eminent falsehood you lack the integrity to say you’re wrong. Instead you try and paint others as being at fault. Anyway, keep clinging to your house of cards. Here’s how Trump can still win...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:47:22 AM by Rama Set »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #8833 on: May 19, 2021, 01:51:07 AM »
Tom,

That's merely the statement that was replied to by the PA DoS.  It's not new information supplied to this conversation.

Let's try to get to some new information, perhaps, by looking at the relevant information we do have:

1. An image from a tweet by Rep. Ryan which shows a supposed discrepancy b/w county numbers and SURE numbers.
2. The official PA DoS website which shows the final county votes.
3. A statement from the PA DoS claiming that Rep. Ryan is wrong.
4. No reply from Rep. Ryan to dispute the PA DoS

At least not one that I could find.  Perhaps you can find something that shows Rep. Ryan was right all along, instead of just making up numbers, perhaps?

I can, however, an article claiming that Rep. Ryan refused to respond when contacted:
https://www.law.com/thelegalintelligencer/2021/01/01/gop-reps-say-analysis-shows-voting-discrepancies-but-report-quickly-challenged/?slreturn=20210418214824



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Re: Trump
« Reply #8834 on: May 19, 2021, 01:56:44 AM »
Windham, NH’s audit is saying that it isn’t fraud that caused the discrepancy in the recount.

https://news.yahoo.com/voter-machine-audit-comes-totals-224800540.html

No one is surprised. Trump’s victory remains promising.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #8835 on: May 19, 2021, 02:03:07 AM »
Awesome.

I found this which I think should put the nail in the coffin about the PA discrepancy.  Unless it was written by a deep state operative  :o

Relevant quotes:
"Anderson pointed out that SURE is not designed to determine election winners, and never has been. Instead, it is simply a database of registered voters, and a historical record of who has voted in past elections. Two different processes, two different purposes. This, according to Anderson, is what Ryan and Diamond didn’t understand."

"Whether the SURE totals are right or wrong, they have no direct connection to exactly how many ballots have been cast in a given election, or whether those ballots have been counted accurately."

And perhaps most tellingly:
"At the end of the meeting, [Rep] Diamond, who attended via Zoom, expressed satisfaction with Anderson’s explanations."


Sounds like the dude whose tweet you posted is cool with the final numbers after all...

https://lebtown.com/2021/01/08/county-elections-chief-rebuts-alarming-discrepancy-alleged-by-reps-ryan-and-diamond-diamond-apparently-satisfied/


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Re: Trump
« Reply #8836 on: May 19, 2021, 02:03:32 AM »
Paul Gosar is full of shit. The three errors were exactly that, errors. When they expanded the counts, the 3% margin became 0.5%, not a healthy trend. Even if you extend that 0.5% error and assumed the same corrections in votes it would have better Trump 103 votes. So much for moronic fraud claims.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2020/12/07/rep-paul-gosar-right-fraud-being-perpetrated-public/3861900001/
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8837 on: May 19, 2021, 02:32:18 AM »
Awesome.

I found this which I think should put the nail in the coffin about the PA discrepancy.  Unless it was written by a deep state operative  :o

Relevant quotes:
"Anderson pointed out that SURE is not designed to determine election winners, and never has been. Instead, it is simply a database of registered voters, and a historical record of who has voted in past elections. Two different processes, two different purposes. This, according to Anderson, is what Ryan and Diamond didn’t understand."

"Whether the SURE totals are right or wrong, they have no direct connection to exactly how many ballots have been cast in a given election, or whether those ballots have been counted accurately."

And perhaps most tellingly:
"At the end of the meeting, [Rep] Diamond, who attended via Zoom, expressed satisfaction with Anderson’s explanations."


Sounds like the dude whose tweet you posted is cool with the final numbers after all...

https://lebtown.com/2021/01/08/county-elections-chief-rebuts-alarming-discrepancy-alleged-by-reps-ryan-and-diamond-diamond-apparently-satisfied/

I don't believe that anyone claimed that the SURE system determines winners and losers. There is an anomaly there between two different reporting systems.

And your excuse that someone somewhere was allegedly satisfied with an explanation is pretty weak. You have a liberal source reporting this and the situation could easily be that someone somewhere said" k  ::) "

Your argument would be better if you could show that the data now matches, which you cannot. You are resorting to posting excuses that there is a possible explanation somewhere.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8838 on: May 19, 2021, 02:37:53 AM »
Windham, NH’s audit is saying that it isn’t fraud that caused the discrepancy in the recount.

https://news.yahoo.com/voter-machine-audit-comes-totals-224800540.html

No one is surprised. Trump’s victory remains promising.

The first two sentences of that article say that the forensic audit found discrepancies:

https://news.yahoo.com/voter-machine-audit-comes-totals-224800540.html

May 17—PEMBROKE — The first review in the forensic audit of Windham election returns has produced different vote totals than were reported right after the Nov. 3 election.

The four Republican candidates for state representative in Windham each got roughly 220 more votes through an audit of automated vote counting machines than reported on Election Day.

There are discrepancies. There could be a million excuses for discrepancies, but there are discrepancies nonetheless and discrepancies can suggest fraud.

And once again, these discrepancies affect Republican candidates.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 02:42:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Trump
« Reply #8839 on: May 19, 2021, 02:42:11 AM »
Did you bother reading Rama's post? No where did he say, or imply, there wasnt a discrepancy...