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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #280 on: May 06, 2021, 01:33:55 AM »
I think there's an appreciable difference between the president including a self-congratulatory letter with the check and insisting that his own signature be on the check itself.

I don't.  It's a negligible margin at best. It might expose Trump as more of a narcissist, but there's nothing inherently "wronger" about it.
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Offline Iceman

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #281 on: May 06, 2021, 01:40:27 AM »
Yep, Trump's signature put the cherry on top, but both moves are shite sammiches still.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #282 on: May 06, 2021, 04:42:23 AM »
Could you elaborate on that? I fail to see the difference - both carry the exact same implication, and were done with the same intention. The main difference, it seems, is that orange man bad. Other than that, we only have the small difference of Trump trying to get his name on the cheques, and Biden trying to publicly announce how much he doesn't want his name on the cheques because he's so much better and purer than Trump.

Biden's letter contains information that is clear, correct, and relevant, but inappropriate to include in that context. Trump's signature, however, doesn't communicate any information, and so feels manipulative, like a psychological trick to try and make people associate their check with Trump without actually making a logical case for why Trump deserves credit for the check. To put it another way, both presidents took advantage of sending out these checks for their own political gain, but Biden was upfront about it while Trump did it in an underhanded way.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #283 on: May 06, 2021, 09:30:22 AM »
A signature is very upfront I’m not sure how you could think otherwise. If anything, hiding your self-congratulations in a message relating to other matters is more under-handed. I don’t think either is particularly under-handed. The signature was always just funny because I can imagine Trump literally taking credit as of those were cheques from his personal account rather than a redistribution of public wealth.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #284 on: May 06, 2021, 12:37:54 PM »
Could you elaborate on that? I fail to see the difference - both carry the exact same implication, and were done with the same intention. The main difference, it seems, is that orange man bad. Other than that, we only have the small difference of Trump trying to get his name on the cheques, and Biden trying to publicly announce how much he doesn't want his name on the cheques because he's so much better and purer than Trump.

Biden's letter contains information that is clear, correct, and relevant, but inappropriate to include in that context. Trump's signature, however, doesn't communicate any information, and so feels manipulative, like a psychological trick to try and make people associate their check with Trump without actually making a logical case for why Trump deserves credit for the check. To put it another way, both presidents took advantage of sending out these checks for their own political gain, but Biden was upfront about it while Trump did it in an underhanded way.

In both cases the President is saying, "Hey, look what I did for you!" This is precisely what the media excoriated Trump for, and it's also precisely what Biden's letter is meant to accomplish. I feel like you are performing some Tom Bishop level feats of mental gymnastics to justify it (or even say "It's not that bad, guys") in Biden's case.

In fact, is it the case that Trump didn't send self-congratulatory letters as well? I didn't remember that, but if so what Biden did may actually be objectively worse! I, like most people, never received a paper stimulus check. I got that letter though!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 12:45:04 PM by Roundy »
If the government is paying me enough to live, then work be damned.

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Offline junker

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #285 on: May 06, 2021, 02:43:26 PM »
I liked Trump's better because I actually got one from Trump. No Biden bux for me.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #286 on: May 06, 2021, 04:38:31 PM »
Biden's letter contains information that is clear, correct, and relevant, but inappropriate to include in that context.
Whether you consider "wow look at how cool I am!" to be clear, correct, or relevant is very subjective.

Trump's signature, however, doesn't communicate any information, and so feels manipulative, like a psychological trick to try and make people associate their check with Trump without actually making a logical case for why Trump deserves credit for the check.
Right, so we're discussing your feelings. Fair enough. Can you explain why it "feels" that way?

To put it another way, both presidents took advantage of sending out these checks for their own political gain, but Biden was upfront about it while Trump did it in an underhanded way.
Really? What's more "upfront" about writing a letter and grandstanding about how it's totally cool that you didn't try to put your signature on the cheques for political gain, versus trying to put your signature on the cheques for political gain? If anything, the former adds a step to the process, making it less straight-forward.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 04:40:20 PM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #287 on: May 08, 2021, 12:51:29 AM »
If the letter shown in this article is accurate, then describing it as "wow look at how cool I am!" or "a message relating to other matters" simply isn't a fair description. It's a direct, straightforward attempt at taking credit for the money being sent to Americans as part of the American Rescue Plan, which Biden did sign into law. It's inappropriate for inclusion in government relief, but is otherwise entirely typical politicking.

Regarding Trump, his name being directly on the checks was essentially designed to cut out the middleman of the government in people's minds. The message is less "the government is sending me money, thanks to Trump," and more "Trump is sending me money." When we receive a check, we generally expect to see the name of the person who's paying us money on it. By putting his name on the checks, Trump was trying to imply - not state outright, because that would be a ridiculous lie he'd quickly be called out on, but imply - that the money was coming from him personally. Even though virtually nobody would actually think to themselves, "Yes, Trump himself is sending me money from his personal bank account," people would still automatically associate Trump's signature with him being very generous with his own money, without explicitly spelling it out to themselves.

I definitely agree that Biden's letter is especially pathetic in light of his administration having made a point of stressing that he wouldn't be doing anything as egotistical as putting his signature on the checks, which I hadn't known about before this discussion. Bragging about their humility could only have been appropriately followed up with the most humble government in bailout in history, which this certainly was not. Really, the Biden Administration should just stop comparing itself to its predecessor altogether. It's such a low bar.
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Offline J-Man

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #288 on: May 10, 2021, 01:48:35 AM »
As the audit continues in AZ, we now know Biden stole all the battle ground states and in fact lost the election to Trump. Regardless, sleepy Joe won't make it to the end of term and probably end of year as his dementia is really kicking in. Joe ain't my President, Obama in the basement is...LMAO  What a train wreak !!!
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline Iceman

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #289 on: May 10, 2021, 03:02:23 AM »
That post wrecked havoc on my eyes and brain.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #290 on: May 10, 2021, 06:38:15 AM »
As the audit continues in AZ, we now know Biden stole all the battle ground states and in fact lost the election to Trump. Regardless, sleepy Joe won't make it to the end of term and probably end of year as his dementia is really kicking in. Joe ain't my President, Obama in the basement is...LMAO  What a train wreak !!!

Why should we trust the audit?

The main auditor appears to be someone who has never audited an election before now, and whose CEO is a rabid conspiracy theorist.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/05/arizona-recount-cyber-ninjas-doug-logan-explained.html

« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 08:02:54 AM by Tumeni »
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Nearly?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #291 on: May 10, 2021, 12:08:54 PM »
As the audit continues in AZ, we now know Biden stole all the battle ground states and in fact lost the election to Trump. Regardless, sleepy Joe won't make it to the end of term and probably end of year as his dementia is really kicking in. Joe ain't my President, Obama in the basement is...LMAO  What a train wreak !!!

Why should we trust the audit?

The main auditor appears to be someone who has never audited an election before now, and whose CEO is a rabid conspiracy theorist.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/05/arizona-recount-cyber-ninjas-doug-logan-explained.html

Put it back in your pants. The audit is moving at a snail’s pace and hasn’t reported anything.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #292 on: May 10, 2021, 08:31:42 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/995518597/americans-will-lose-unemployment-benefits-if-they-turn-down-jobs-biden-says

So let this sink in:
The jobs report was lower than expected.  The reason being that employers are finding it hard to find workers. (So labor shortage)
The republicans are arguing that the stimulus bills are the cause of this; That people make more on unemployment than they do working.  Which is probably true for alot of jobs like waite staff and baristas.

So republicans are saying "These jobs suck and it's Biden's fault for giving you a better option!"
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Iceman

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #293 on: May 10, 2021, 09:40:43 PM »
The free market is great for CEO's until they're forced to compete for labor. Seeing the product of ridiculous lack of wage growth compared to productivity and it's a little bit hilarious.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #294 on: May 11, 2021, 12:04:34 AM »
RI gHt tO wORk!
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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #295 on: May 11, 2021, 10:24:55 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/995518597/americans-will-lose-unemployment-benefits-if-they-turn-down-jobs-biden-says

So let this sink in:
The jobs report was lower than expected.  The reason being that employers are finding it hard to find workers. (So labor shortage)
The republicans are arguing that the stimulus bills are the cause of this; That people make more on unemployment than they do working.  Which is probably true for alot of jobs like waite staff and baristas.

So republicans are saying "These jobs suck and it's Biden's fault for giving you a better option!"
When a couple can make twice the median income by not working, why work?

Labor shortage is not an accurate descriptor.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #296 on: May 11, 2021, 10:34:10 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/995518597/americans-will-lose-unemployment-benefits-if-they-turn-down-jobs-biden-says

So let this sink in:
The jobs report was lower than expected.  The reason being that employers are finding it hard to find workers. (So labor shortage)
The republicans are arguing that the stimulus bills are the cause of this; That people make more on unemployment than they do working.  Which is probably true for alot of jobs like waite staff and baristas.

So republicans are saying "These jobs suck and it's Biden's fault for giving you a better option!"
When a couple can make twice the median income by not working, why work?

Labor shortage is not an accurate descriptor.

How about :Shit pay keeps all but illegals from wanting to work?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #297 on: May 11, 2021, 11:55:19 AM »
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/10/995518597/americans-will-lose-unemployment-benefits-if-they-turn-down-jobs-biden-says

So let this sink in:
The jobs report was lower than expected.  The reason being that employers are finding it hard to find workers. (So labor shortage)
The republicans are arguing that the stimulus bills are the cause of this; That people make more on unemployment than they do working.  Which is probably true for alot of jobs like waite staff and baristas.

So republicans are saying "These jobs suck and it's Biden's fault for giving you a better option!"
When a couple can make twice the median income by not working, why work?

Labor shortage is not an accurate descriptor.

How about :Shit pay keeps all but illegals from wanting to work?
Everyone wants to be pampered is more accurate.

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Offline Iceman

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #298 on: May 11, 2021, 12:20:10 PM »
Everyone wants to be pampered thinks they deserve a living wage is more accurate.
FTFY

Why would anyone with a kid go back to work to make a couple hundred bucks more a month, but then have to pay hundreds more for childcare, when they could stay at home, make more net income and spend time with their family? The fact that people are spinning this as 'lazy workers' instead of 'corporate greed and an unlivable minimum wage' is kind of amazing to watch

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #299 on: May 11, 2021, 12:44:38 PM »
Everyone wants to be pampered thinks they deserve a living wage is more accurate.
FTFY

Why would anyone with a kid go back to work to make a couple hundred bucks more a month, but then have to pay hundreds more for childcare, when they could stay at home, make more net income and spend time with their family? The fact that people are spinning this as 'lazy workers' instead of 'corporate greed and an unlivable minimum wage' is kind of amazing to watch

It’s the classic Conservative trope and the sad part is that the biggest supporters of that narrative are some of the people who would benefit most from a living wage. It would also reduce dependence on government assistance, improve the economy and help balance government budgets.
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